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Ok, what DOES the market want?
- Thread starter Byakuya769
- Start date
cartoon_soldier
Member
You are looking at different markets here.
GAF...well has people who either want Sony or MS to win next-gen. I am sure there are some who are not impressed that they didn't see the console or hear about the price point. So, you will have people who over react both to any "wins" or "loses" they see from the PS4 conference. Currently, a lot of the GAF Gaming side environment will be doing what you can do to make it seem like your favored company is in the lead next-gen.
The gaming press, I am not really sure. I didn't realize they were underwhelmed. I think they were mostly excited at the reveal, they probably would have liked to see the actual console and more game play from the console itself.
The mainstream press is not looking at it from a gaming aspect. They always knew that PS4 would have and play games, but apart from that what do they see that excites them. And is there something innovative in the PS4.
At the end, we should all just wait till E3 for official console wars to begin!
TheRagnCajun
Member
Great games. At all price levels.
ii Stryker
Banned
A killer launch app
In the past we've had that in Mario, Halo, MGS2(technically launch window) and similar games.
Recently we seem to be gettin much less from all of them and a lot more hollow promises of what's to come, which is bullshit.
In the past we've had that in Mario, Halo, MGS2(technically launch window) and similar games.
Recently we seem to be gettin much less from all of them and a lot more hollow promises of what's to come, which is bullshit.
Pimpbaa
Slop Inspector
They are certainly doing better for the hardcore gamer than MS lately.
MaximusPrimus
Member
Games, Games, Games, Games, Games, Games, Games. retail, digital, streaming, who cares. games, games, games, games. If anyone here answers differently, then they shouldn't deserve to enjoy this hobby, cause they obviously don't.
Oh hai Sony, new system? new games? cool. thanks
Microsoft, new system?? new games? nice! thanks
Nintendo, new system? wow games? really? thanks
play games. end of story. you bunch of whiney, spoon fed, red carpet rollout, bitches....
Oh hai Sony, new system? new games? cool. thanks
Microsoft, new system?? new games? nice! thanks
Nintendo, new system? wow games? really? thanks
play games. end of story. you bunch of whiney, spoon fed, red carpet rollout, bitches....
Dog Problems
Banned
More TF2 items.
Sony did a great job appealing to core gamers. They did not do as great of a job appealing to casual gamers.
The casual market is not interested in 'been there done that' experiences. It's the reason why the Wii U is struggling, the reason why newer versions of Angry Birds games sell significantly less, the reason why TV shows tend to see drop-offs in viewership numbers as they get older etc. It's not an issue that's exclusive to the videogame industry; it's just the reality of experiences.
Sony have not shown what the PS4s main "hook" is - the 'secret sauce'. I think their hook will be the stereo camera and how it interacts with the controller and the end user. Since Microsoft are rumored to be taking a similar approach with the X720, it would have been very unwise of Sony to reveal their "main ingredient" prior to Microsoft's debut of the nextbox.
The good news for Sony is they have the luxury of time. Any perceived misstep can be remedied at GDC, E3, Gamescom, or any other conference prior to the consoles launch. I expect Sony to reveal most - if not all - of the PS4's features at E3 2013.
The casual market is not interested in 'been there done that' experiences. It's the reason why the Wii U is struggling, the reason why newer versions of Angry Birds games sell significantly less, the reason why TV shows tend to see drop-offs in viewership numbers as they get older etc. It's not an issue that's exclusive to the videogame industry; it's just the reality of experiences.
Sony have not shown what the PS4s main "hook" is - the 'secret sauce'. I think their hook will be the stereo camera and how it interacts with the controller and the end user. Since Microsoft are rumored to be taking a similar approach with the X720, it would have been very unwise of Sony to reveal their "main ingredient" prior to Microsoft's debut of the nextbox.
The good news for Sony is they have the luxury of time. Any perceived misstep can be remedied at GDC, E3, Gamescom, or any other conference prior to the consoles launch. I expect Sony to reveal most - if not all - of the PS4's features at E3 2013.
Xenon
Member
I don't think it was a great presentation for hardcore gamers either, unless you are a big fan of the Sony IPs shown. One of my biggest problems is how segmented it felt. It was just a whole bunch of separate groups showing some clips and saying the loved the PS4 without actual game-play to demo. What made it even worse was how ill-prepared they all seemed. I felt uncomfortable watching them especially when their jokes fell completely flat. Maybe if they shortened it a bit things would have flowed better.
Im not sure what I wanted to usher in the next gen, I just know it wasn't that.
Core gaming publishers see the money made from the 'app' market and adjust budgets accordingly - that's not such a good idea when they then have to layoff or discontinue the series.
The suits get confused and combine the two markets, being under the impression they can make that money too.
It doesn't last, as we've seen.
The suits get confused and combine the two markets, being under the impression they can make that money too.
It doesn't last, as we've seen.
Byakuya769
Member
That's actually how I came away feeling as well. MM in particular seemed entirely unprepared to show off anything. And I feel like it should have been explained why I should care about Knack. I think they were trying to connect the physics shown in the Havok demonstration with Knack's power, but there was no real showing on how that would affect gameplay.
Freezasaurus
Member
All I need is good hardware, and library of games that interest me.
Personally, I don't care about social media, apps, or any of that stuff. I have other devices to handle those things. I've always bought consoles solely to play games.
Personally, I don't care about social media, apps, or any of that stuff. I have other devices to handle those things. I've always bought consoles solely to play games.
Convincing the majority of iOS/Android developers to develop two versions of their apps (touch and non-touch) will be very difficult. Unless something big changes, I don't expect the popular iOS content to make its way onto the PS4.
If the PS4 came equipped with a touchscreen controller then the conversation would be very different. It's remarkable how important the controller has become.
Consoles need a free/cheap SDK and non-curated store with developer controlled pricing, similar to appstore, but with dedicated apps based around having a controller, camera and higher horsepower than a smartphone/tablet. You're going to get a wide library very quickly, and are more likely to get "the next big thing" by enabling thousands of developers to develop for your ecosystem than blowing money on exclusive map packs for something like CoD that is inevitably going to decline. This also makes bringing apps over from other successful stores on Android/iOS more appealing, since nobody is doing full exclusivity anymore and will release on every feasible store when given the chance.
Publishing retail discs and lower-level hardware access should be curated on a case-by-case basis similar to the current 3rd party setup, but I would be wary of relying on AAA publishers anymore, they're bringing the high end market down on top of themselves with schemes like project $10, $60 games, abusive DLC practices etc.
What they need to show the wider media is a 15 minute demo of the PS4 or xbox UI, showing someone alternating between browsing a large storefront of non-curated content (including Hulu/Amazon/Netflix/Spotify etc apps), playing prettied-up iOS style games, a freemium console MOBA with Starcraft2++ graphics, a social game like words with friends with Facetime-like video chat, and then some AAA FPS/open world stuff.
I think Sony are absolutely right to court developers, I just hope that later this year they make good on their promise to be open for variable pricing models and indie devs in general. Microsoft I have no idea about because they are so entrenched in AAA (literally funding EA and Activision out of Gold subscription money) and are doing completely weird stuff like setting up recording studios which will actively compete with larger, better TV/movie content providers who are putting apps out on every device anyway. Sony were also relatively quick to adapt to freemium and less bureaucracy for indies while Microsoft haven't budged at all, which is monumentally dumb.
Publishing retail discs and lower-level hardware access should be curated on a case-by-case basis similar to the current 3rd party setup, but I would be wary of relying on AAA publishers anymore, they're bringing the high end market down on top of themselves with schemes like project $10, $60 games, abusive DLC practices etc.
What they need to show the wider media is a 15 minute demo of the PS4 or xbox UI, showing someone alternating between browsing a large storefront of non-curated content (including Hulu/Amazon/Netflix/Spotify etc apps), playing prettied-up iOS style games, a freemium console MOBA with Starcraft2++ graphics, a social game like words with friends with Facetime-like video chat, and then some AAA FPS/open world stuff.
I think Sony are absolutely right to court developers, I just hope that later this year they make good on their promise to be open for variable pricing models and indie devs in general. Microsoft I have no idea about because they are so entrenched in AAA (literally funding EA and Activision out of Gold subscription money) and are doing completely weird stuff like setting up recording studios which will actively compete with larger, better TV/movie content providers who are putting apps out on every device anyway. Sony were also relatively quick to adapt to freemium and less bureaucracy for indies while Microsoft haven't budged at all, which is monumentally dumb.
I don't know about anyone else, but what would have made me happy is to see something I wasn't expecting. I'm long bored of games like Killzone, and Infamous. I wanted to see something new and didn't vaguely remind me of Kameo. That doesn't mean I want motion controls out the arse, or anything like that, I just wanted something that looked fun and I wasn't expecting. PS4 the console is fine. I do need reasons to buy it though. Sony's fallback franchises aren't doing it for me these days though.
NullPointer
Member
If I'm the market I want to see mod support akin to Steam Workshop standard on the consoles.
the world is in a constant hurry, no body has time for anything anymore. career, job, partying, family etc. all takes to much time nowadays.. and it has to happen fast, so when we finally have time to play it has to be simple, fast and effective . no spare time to waste on turning on a console and wait for it to start, no time to waste on games that take to long to complete. thats to why we are seeing less focus on singleplayer games with deep stories these days (or rather thats why we see them in the shop alot and not in someones console) no we see games that are easy to acces and easy to get into and play for a short period of time, like angry birds. these games are a much bigger succes today because people don't have the same time luxury we had back in the 80's and the 90's . the world is moving to fast for most people, they simply have no time to spend on gaming that much anymore.
that's why people want a faster easier way to be entertained. a console that doesn't make you wait and has games that can be played in short sittings.
sorry for the bad grammar and missing big letters, i am writing this on my vita in my bed. lol
that's why people want a faster easier way to be entertained. a console that doesn't make you wait and has games that can be played in short sittings.
sorry for the bad grammar and missing big letters, i am writing this on my vita in my bed. lol
I'm afraid you won't see things like this on consoles, the trend is largely towards media consumption and social sharing rather than creation or productivity. I would expect media molecule to allow sharing of 3D props etc with friends through their next title as in their PS4 demo, but it will all be sandboxed off and "safe" compared to what the Skyrim workshop potentially lets you publish through its creation kit.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Same as it's always been: "What they don't know they want".
In terms of investors, the market wants innovation to the tune of almost unprecedented returns. They want every software and hardware company to be the next Apple and when they aren't, we get doomsday pieces like the NYT's. So, really, they don't know what they want--all they know is that they want money and they think they know what won't get it.
Gloom and doom aside, what the gaming market wants is very simple--bang for their buck. People put down hundreds of dollars for the equipment because they want something they can't get with their current configurations or with the competitor's. Whether that's different games, different quality of games, better features for multiplayer with their friends or even "Look at the pretty", it's got to be enough for them to pull the trigger. And I didn't see that at the meeting from PS4, not really. Impressive graphics, but that's expected. We didn't get much gameplay and what we did get felt either same-y to what we have now (no, DOF doesn't count) or was mediocre/eclipsed by art direction so bad I wanted to slap my forehead in astonishment (Knack just *looked* bad). What the meeting needed was something like the UE4 demo which showed interesting things the new console can allow for beyond graphics and how those can be integrated into games to provide more interesting interactions with the player. (Knack tried for this and failed I think. It showed the multiple pieces to display technological power, but at its core, it was a simple shapeshifting mechanic where you switch between one of several individual forms.)
Gloom and doom aside, what the gaming market wants is very simple--bang for their buck. People put down hundreds of dollars for the equipment because they want something they can't get with their current configurations or with the competitor's. Whether that's different games, different quality of games, better features for multiplayer with their friends or even "Look at the pretty", it's got to be enough for them to pull the trigger. And I didn't see that at the meeting from PS4, not really. Impressive graphics, but that's expected. We didn't get much gameplay and what we did get felt either same-y to what we have now (no, DOF doesn't count) or was mediocre/eclipsed by art direction so bad I wanted to slap my forehead in astonishment (Knack just *looked* bad). What the meeting needed was something like the UE4 demo which showed interesting things the new console can allow for beyond graphics and how those can be integrated into games to provide more interesting interactions with the player. (Knack tried for this and failed I think. It showed the multiple pieces to display technological power, but at its core, it was a simple shapeshifting mechanic where you switch between one of several individual forms.)
UberTag
Member
And yet MS still brings in more revenue from the hardcore gamer than Sony does.
Until Sony is able to transfer some of that "hardcore gamer goodwill" into money, their standing amongst hardcores amounts to nothing more than faint praise.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
But that's the same misconception people have with the disc thing. Just because it's a digital game doesn't mean it will work on another platform. It's still a digital PS3 game.
I'd say innovative & engaging entertainment that is to easy to grap and participate it. They want to be distracted, excited but comfortable.A bit of escapisim that sparks thier imagination and makes them smile. They want the experince to be tacticle, fresh/new yet familer. And they dont want to pay to much for it.
In the rawest sense they want to FEEL.
This is what nintendo hit on with the Wii and was hoping to do with the WiiU, one of the problems is the timing of the tablet. It's to familer already. Stuff gets old fast for consumers hence the principle of the "fad".
Sony is hitting the right buttons for the core but for the mass market they are lacking big time.
I've said in a few threads now, MS is going to try and really play the middle.Strong kinnect support and integration in an attempt to hit on the new experinces craving. Combine that with strong media features that are familer yet fresh. Then appeal to the tried and true core gamers with...well games (and decent tech)
Sony is catchign flack for taking the easy road, the problem is that road doesnt go very far. Appealing to gamers is not hard. Their predictable and want to be pleased and sold to in regards to games.
Outside of the gamer the hook is much more tricky. Games, graphics. etc the traditional aspects that make core gamers get feels just dont do it.
Its funny seeing core gamer GAF drool over the PS4 graphical leap and everyone who doesnt think much of it as blind...When I'd bet 80-90% of the mass market Sony wishes it could appeal to look at the graphical leap like "meh, yea thats nice...what else...how much...?"
What creates "feels" in core gamers is very different then what moves average and non traditional gamers.
In the rawest sense they want to FEEL.
This is what nintendo hit on with the Wii and was hoping to do with the WiiU, one of the problems is the timing of the tablet. It's to familer already. Stuff gets old fast for consumers hence the principle of the "fad".
Sony is hitting the right buttons for the core but for the mass market they are lacking big time.
I've said in a few threads now, MS is going to try and really play the middle.Strong kinnect support and integration in an attempt to hit on the new experinces craving. Combine that with strong media features that are familer yet fresh. Then appeal to the tried and true core gamers with...well games (and decent tech)
Sony is catchign flack for taking the easy road, the problem is that road doesnt go very far. Appealing to gamers is not hard. Their predictable and want to be pleased and sold to in regards to games.
Outside of the gamer the hook is much more tricky. Games, graphics. etc the traditional aspects that make core gamers get feels just dont do it.
Its funny seeing core gamer GAF drool over the PS4 graphical leap and everyone who doesnt think much of it as blind...When I'd bet 80-90% of the mass market Sony wishes it could appeal to look at the graphical leap like "meh, yea thats nice...what else...how much...?"
What creates "feels" in core gamers is very different then what moves average and non traditional gamers.
The mainstream media just want a story, ideally they want to write about successes and failures in absolute terms. This has the added bonus of enabling them to build things up so they can knock them down again, at the other end of the scale they can write about previously doomed companies making inspired comebacks.
Failing that just whipping up some controversy will do, that strategy seems to have worked judging by reactions on many gaming news sites and forums.
Failing that just whipping up some controversy will do, that strategy seems to have worked judging by reactions on many gaming news sites and forums.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The market as a whole wants
I'm not so sure the overall market is that schizo, but that may be what GAF wants.
Schweinehund
Member
For me its about the games.
I liked the tech, I just want more things like Dark Souls, Dota 2, Destiny out there. I want to see them try more ambitious things instead of recycled garbage from focus groups.
I liked the tech, I just want more things like Dark Souls, Dota 2, Destiny out there. I want to see them try more ambitious things instead of recycled garbage from focus groups.
Baconsammy
Banned
If tablets and phones are any indicator, they want their games/apps to move from one iteration of the hardware to the next (backwards compatibility), and they want stuff as cheap as possible. Convenience is key, and if Ryuta Kawashima is correct, they want their devices to do a lot more than just play games.
I don't know what the market wants, but I want good games.
I don't want generic games, I want true reboots of old and cool franchises.
I want fresh ideas, new and different games.
I don't want Shooters (exept a few).
I don't want Uncharted clones.
I don't want games to be more movies than games.
Cinematic presentation is ok when your game is called Metal Gear Solid.
I don't want generic games, I want true reboots of old and cool franchises.
I want fresh ideas, new and different games.
I don't want Shooters (exept a few).
I don't want Uncharted clones.
I don't want games to be more movies than games.
Cinematic presentation is ok when your game is called Metal Gear Solid.
And I don't just mean games. I mean software, period.
Delusibeta
Banned
Tablets and smartphones, obviously.
I don't think anybody wants the popular iOS content on the PS4 anyway. I've hooked my iPad up to my AppleTV and touchscreen gaming on the big screen is a horrific experience. Sony will need indie developers that are interested in making native games, not just porting their iPad games to the PS4.
curlyfriski
Banned
I think the tech and games press wants something new and exciting. The zeitgeist has moved on from when consoles were cutting edge. Smartphones and tablets and Smart TVs and the cloud and free to play and all that stuff are the new big things. Even if all the new stuff isn't successful, it's something different than what we've seen before. In comparison, the console business model is pretty much the same, with a few new features added on to what existed before.
I think what the investors want is something that will lead to a big growth in profits, and to do that you have to go beyond the traditional gaming audience. PS4 doesn't seem like the console to do that.
I think what the investors want is something that will lead to a big growth in profits, and to do that you have to go beyond the traditional gaming audience. PS4 doesn't seem like the console to do that.
Box of Bunnies
Banned
Realistic, down-to-earth games... that're completely off-the-wall and swarming with magic robots.
You can't compete against the tablet and mobile sector using consoles. The expectations are there, but you also can't compete against stupid.
Sony needs to find a way (Gakai is a start) to transcened the box and allow PSN and the entire PlayStation experience on ANY Sony device.
Then, find a way to make those devices acctractive compared against the iPhone, Galaxy S, iPad, and Nexus.
Also, software has to be cheaper. Much cheaper.
Sony needs to find a way (Gakai is a start) to transcened the box and allow PSN and the entire PlayStation experience on ANY Sony device.
Then, find a way to make those devices acctractive compared against the iPhone, Galaxy S, iPad, and Nexus.
Also, software has to be cheaper. Much cheaper.
Dion Blaster
Member
Value for their money, a strong library of games, adequate media services.
:lol
:lol
People find static mature industries boring. How many people get excited about a new detergent or cheese?
Televisions and games consoles aren't quite at the detergent and cheese end of the spectrum yet, but they are close. So when sony brings out a console that is solid, developer friendly, and has a significant power boost from last gen, but offers no whizzbang "next big thing" hook, people look at it and yawn. They want to see the next ipod/iphone/tablet revolution that will set the industry on its ear. Expectations are ridiculous.
Then there is the whole cynical hipster bullshit that seems to permate pop culture right now. It's cool to shit on things.
Televisions and games consoles aren't quite at the detergent and cheese end of the spectrum yet, but they are close. So when sony brings out a console that is solid, developer friendly, and has a significant power boost from last gen, but offers no whizzbang "next big thing" hook, people look at it and yawn. They want to see the next ipod/iphone/tablet revolution that will set the industry on its ear. Expectations are ridiculous.
Then there is the whole cynical hipster bullshit that seems to permate pop culture right now. It's cool to shit on things.
*takes microphone*
A UNIQUE GAMING EXPERIENCE IMPOSSIBLE TO REPLICATE ELSEWHERE
And by "elsewhere" I mean:
- Impossible to replicate on previous console generations
- Impossible to replicate on tablets
- Impossible to replicate on phones
- Impossible to replicate on PC
In short: offering "more of the same but prettier graphics" won't cut it, period. It never did, and it never will, the cries for "bigger and better" are nothing but the hysterical reaction against Nintendo's previous gen vision of an expanded market. The whole "integration paradygm" is stupid from a console perspective, since a console is suppoused to be a dedicated gaming device. If I would want to have an informatic swiss knife with the option of high end gaming, I would buy a PC, which are far more potent and versatile than a console could ever hope to be. Ease of use? Protip: the more functions you add to a device, the more difficult will be its use. In any case, rational analysis leads to the same strategy: you must differenciate from the competition (tablets, smartphones, PCs, etc), and you need to do it trought the gaming experience.
Now, about how to archieve said unique gaming experience, there are many possible routes, but in short I would sum them in two:
- From the software side, create a development ecosystem that encourages risk taking and experimental gaming. That is, easier development, lower costs, lower barriers of entry for small developers
- From the hardware side, look at imput controls. Not necessary motion controls since these have already been tried, and the idea is to create something that consumers never experienced before. Gestures, eye tracking, mind pulses, hell, add a hefty dose of Oculus rift, too. Research it and see what would resonate better with both developers and consumer, and consoles might have a bright future ahead them.
In any case, I thought the PS4 meeting was fine and quite likely convinced me to jump ships to Sony next gen.
But it was certainly lacking imagination. Another Killzone, another infamous, another Dark Souls but then by Capcom. I already know all these games and don't want to play them again.
Frankly I think much of the fatigue with current gen consoles is hardly even the hardware, it's franchise or gameplay fatigue. You have a cohort that likes doing the old. They'll lap up yearly iterations FIFA and COD, and for publishers that's a safe business model. But there's an equal cohort of gamers that play games because they want new experiences, and they're poorly serviced by the bigger budget titles.
But it was certainly lacking imagination. Another Killzone, another infamous, another Dark Souls but then by Capcom. I already know all these games and don't want to play them again.
Frankly I think much of the fatigue with current gen consoles is hardly even the hardware, it's franchise or gameplay fatigue. You have a cohort that likes doing the old. They'll lap up yearly iterations FIFA and COD, and for publishers that's a safe business model. But there's an equal cohort of gamers that play games because they want new experiences, and they're poorly serviced by the bigger budget titles.