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Opinion Clickbait Hardware On paper, the GPU in the Xbox Series X is faster than a GeForce RTX 2080 Super.

ZywyPL

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Key word - on paper. Because as much as RDNA is more efficient than GCN, it's still nowhere near as good as NV CUDA cores (that also evolve each generation).

AMD literally has to be one process node ahead in order to catch up with NV GPUs from one generation behind, their currently strongest GPU, 5700XT offers performance of a GTX1080, a 4yo 16nm card... AMD always had much bigger TF numbers (and synthetic benchmark scores), they already offered a 9TF+ GPU half a decade ago with Fury X, vs less than 6TF 980Ti, but we all know what the actual outcome was between the two. And then they had cards like Vega 64 and Radeon VII with 13-13.5TF, and again, with mixed actual real-life performance.

So again - on paper, yeah, they are catching up with a 2yo 12nm card, while NV is yet to show what they are capable of with 7nm, and the leaks already indicate a 6144SP card, so we're potentially looking at 21-22 (more efficient) TFlops.

With all that being said, I'm waaay more than confident about XBX performance looking at the specs, given the consoles optimized environment and just looking at what the devs already achieved on current-gen consoles with a mere ~1,5TF GPUs.

I just wish there was a console with Intel CPU and NV GPU on board, a man can dream...
 

DynamiteCop!

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I'm fine. I'm just shocked at how can people actually believe this. I bet the whole system tflops is 12 and not the gpu alone. And since this is likely going to be apu [cpu and gpu in the same chip], they're saying it's 12 tflops for the gpu alone. I'm pretty sure this is misleading and false marketing. But fine. Just remember this post when in a few months you hear the cries of fanboys saying how Msoft has deceived them.

EDIT: I feel bad about the joke.
You've got to be fucking kidding me lol
 

thelastword

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I can understand MS doing it's marketing, but are Daniel Ahmad, Klobrille and David Kim part of MS marketing too.....?


A console should be much more than TFLOPs, hence why I said I'm more interested in the custom engineering of these consoles.....12TF RDNA guarantees it's faster than 12TF Turing if RDNA 1 has anything to say about it, so the custom engineering would be what sets it apart to get even more performance in a closed box unit or not...….

What we have to understand is that PC parts have dedicated buses......Current gen consoles share a single pipeline for GPU/CPU/MEM......We need to know how much bandwidth this console is pushing not to hinder or bottleneck simul operations of CPU/GPU/MEM and what exactly they've done to arrest/tackle that problem...….It will be a solid piece of kit for sure, but I think the engineering/custom engineering is what is going to set these consoles apart...
 
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phil_t98

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I can understand MS doing it's marketing, but are Daniel Ahmad, Klobrille and David Kim part of MS marketing too.....?


A console should be much more than TFLOPs, hence why I said I'm more interested in the custom engineering of these consoles.....12TF RDNA guarantees it's faster than 12TF Turing if RDNA 1 has anything to say about it, so the custom engineering would be what sets it apart to get even more performance in a closed box unit or not...….

What we have to understand is that PC parts have dedicated buses......Current gen consoles share a single pipeline for GPU/CPU/MEM......We need to know how much bandwidth this console is pushing not to hinder or bottleneck simul operations of CPU/GPU/MEM and what exactly they've done to arrest/tackle that problem...….It will be a solid piece of kit for sure, but I think the engineering/custom engineering is what is going to set these consoles apart...
that will come in time, at the moment they have out out what they need to put and and get people excited.
 

Fictive

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Sure is. RDNA2 is AMD's 2080 Ti killer architecture.


What's so hard to believe? By the time XSX launches the 2080 Ti will be almost 2 and a half years old. That's an eternity for GPUs.
You just answered your own question, Chief. Don’t think too hard.
 

ZywyPL

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The power of buying your parts in bulk, I guess.
Rather, selling at a loss vs 65% profit margins... Consoles are always waaay cheaper because they are just an investment, and the profit comes later from software sales/services, as oppose to PC where no matter how many games you buy on Steam, GoG, UPlay, Origin etc., NV, AMD, Intel, Asus, Gigabyte etc. won't get even a single penny out of it, they have to make a (huge) profit the moment you're buying their products, because the next chance of earning any cash won't appear in a couple of years, before you decide to upgrade your hardware.
 

KlickKlack

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Its not on paper its reality

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. I mean I saw, I was, when we made the announcement earlier this week, I was kind of looking through of all the details I was looking through some of the gaming forums and people like you can't build a gaming PC like this today at almost any price. Right?

Jason R:
Absolutely. And that's the thing is we have a great partnership with AMD and we're really leveraging the bleeding edge technology from them to make sure that this console is really designed for the future.
 
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HolyTruth

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Rather, selling at a loss vs 65% profit margins... Consoles are always waaay cheaper because they are just an investment, and the profit comes later from software sales/services, as oppose to PC where no matter how many games you buy on Steam, GoG, UPlay, Origin etc., NV, AMD, Intel, Asus, Gigabyte etc. won't get even a single penny out of it, they have to make a (huge) profit the moment you're buying their products, because the next chance of earning any cash won't appear in a couple of years, before you decide to upgrade your hardware.
AMD is not getting a penny if you buy an Xbox game lol
 

psorcerer

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I just wish there was a console with Intel CPU and NV GPU on board, a man can dream...
Dunno. What's the point?
Obviously PC card performance for comparable hw specs is different only because of drivers/apis.
For console it makes no difference at all.
 

Flintty

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pretty sure in terms of FLOPs the GC and teh Xbox were pretty close. the graphical differences you see between them is mostly due to the Xbox supporting more modern effects and because the Xbox used its HDD as virtual ram for some games, resulting in faster loading or bigger levels with less loading in-between (see Splinter Cell 2 and 3)

edit: I was wrong LOL... I thought I heard that somewhere but the GPU of the GameCube reaches 9.4GFLOPs and the Xbox's GPU a whopping 20GFLOPs :messenger_hushed::messenger_hushed:
Yeah the OG Xbox was a beast at the time. It was a great time to be a console gamer!
Ok great. Now tell me about the exclusive games that make it worth buying that wont also be on pc?
You’re missing the point. Anyone asking this question, the XSX isn’t aimed at you. I have a great gaming PC but also have an X and will get the XSX because it suits my needs. If it’s not for you, fine 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
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ZywyPL

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AMD is not getting a penny if you buy an Xbox game lol
But they still do get paid for every single APU that ships with the consoles, obviously not a whooping 60-65% like Intel and NV, not even 30-35% like they do on Ryzens and Radeons, but given their weak market share on both CPU and GPU markets, every 100MLN $ counts.
 

Solid_Snake_

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whats the point of building a gaming pc with specs like this now? Price/ Performance ratio is insane
 
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01011001

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But they still do get paid for every single APU that ships with the consoles, obviously not a whooping 60-65% like Intel and NV, not even 30-35% like they do on Ryzens and Radeons, but given their weak market share on both CPU and GPU markets, every 100MLN $ counts.
what is AMD's market share for CPUs at the moment? as far as I knowbtzey have been shitting on Intel for at least a year now with all of their current Ryzen lineup completely obliterating Intel.

and for their professional CPU lineup they also at least destroy Intel in terms of performance for price.
 

SenjutsuSage

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This thing is gonna be roughly right there with the 2080 Ti in performance, no doubt about it. And definitely topping 2080 Super in a closed environment with a set specification. I know it seems hard to believe, but the numbers are there, and based on the form factor, Microsoft isn't limiting it too much from a power standpoint, either. We have a fucking beast on our hands, and I love it!
 

SenjutsuSage

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Imagine what devs can get out of this closed box ! 😁
Exactly! There is no reasonable limit on what devs in this day and age can try with this system. That's how much power is available. If it can't be done at 4K 60, go to 30 or drop resolution slightly to keep it at 60. Ultra PC settings at all times is what this thing will be able to do. Consoles have finally, finally hit that sweet spot between available PC tech and what's in the consoles. How crazy is it that Series X releases with a GPU MUCH better than any current AMD GPU on the market as of this post?
 

Dural

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I'm wondering what the hardware for ray tracing is, like the tensor cores on the 20XX series? Can it be used for things other than ray tracing if the developer wants?
 

Shin

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It's likely the reason it's rounded off as it needs to be simple and not create confusion (yes honestly).

Ryzen 3700X is 546 GFLOPS, that's a full fledged desktop CPU, but closest thing I can think of to what might be in the console.
You would still end up with 11.5TF for the GPU alone (it's closer to 12 honestly since a mobile CPU is being used), someone did throw out 12.5 or something along those lines (I don't remember nor do I care).

it's still nowhere near as good as NV CUDA cores
I got corrected some years ago when I ran with the same thought, developer preference is the reason it's "as good".
Meaning you can't compare them as the games that are build and optimized primary for AMD cards can be counted on one hand I think.
 
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Dee Dah Dave

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It’s solid but nothing amazing. In a year or so time 20TF will be the high end in gaming. Xbox and PlayStation will be mid range at best. Still not bad though for 4-500 bucks.
 

Butz

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What will it cost though?
Better tech costs more money, ofc. Probably looking at 900, though, you don't have to buy the most expensive one. I'd imagine the mid-range 3060 GPUs will be between 2080S and 2080 Ti.
And as time goes on, well, you know what happens every two years.
 

KlickKlack

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Ok great. Now tell me about the exclusive games that make it worth buying that wont also be on pc?
lol...
have you gtx2080ti? like 0,01% of pc gamers
with XSX you will play games in better quality than 99,99% of pc gamers....

... and that make it worth buying...

this: "i have a pc - no need for XSX console" stupidity is dead since we know: XSX is a monster
 

Butz

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lol...
have you gtx2080ti? like 0,01% of pc gamers
with XSX you will play games in better quality than 99,99% of pc gamers....

... and that make it worth buying...

this: "i have a pc - no need for XSX console" stupidity is dead since we know: XSX is a monster
but by the time XSX is out the 30xx will be out for 2 months already.
 

Thanati

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a 12TF APU in closed system can be used 40-60% efficiently
vs.
12 TF GPU in a PC system

=

XSX APU = ca. 16-18TF GPU in a PC

=

XSX players are the new Masterrace
well, a leaked Nvidia article yesterday showed that the 30 series is being released in June.
 

Elektro Demon

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And that is because...
Have you checked perf of 250mm2 5700xt?
Because logic, my friend. That's a console that is gonna cost like, what, 400, 500, 600 bucks? In a console you have cpu, gpu, mobo, psu, joystick, ram and many many more things and components.
You can't have all that at that price. It's not realistic.
 

sdrawkcab

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I'm calling it now, this thing is going to cost $599USD. Okay, I said that before, but looking at it from this comparative perspective, I'm almost certain this thing will cost $599...$549, minimum. It is definitely not going to cost $399; that ship has sailed...let it go. We're better off for it!

I hope you guys have started saving from now. Because if not (and you're expecting this thing to be $399), you'll regret it.
 
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Romulus

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I can understand MS doing it's marketing, but are Daniel Ahmad, Klobrille and David Kim part of MS marketing too.....?


A console should be much more than TFLOPs, hence why I said I'm more interested in the custom engineering of these consoles.....12TF RDNA guarantees it's faster than 12TF Turing if RDNA 1 has anything to say about it, so the custom engineering would be what sets it apart to get even more performance in a closed box unit or not...….

What we have to understand is that PC parts have dedicated buses......Current gen consoles share a single pipeline for GPU/CPU/MEM......We need to know how much bandwidth this console is pushing not to hinder or bottleneck simul operations of CPU/GPU/MEM and what exactly they've done to arrest/tackle that problem...….It will be a solid piece of kit for sure, but I think the engineering/custom engineering is what is going to set these consoles apart...
I have confidence. The same way I'm confident that Sony devs have the best in the business, MS has the best engineers. I have no doubt that the XSX will not only outperform the PS5 in raw numbers, but ever further from an engineering standpoint.
 
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Skyr

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I want to go on record here and call a 549$ price tag.
Can’t wait to quote my amazing prediction abilities later on.
 
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wordslaughter

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"On paper" it may be, but the problem with this argument is they are comparing AMD Flops to Nvidia Flops and pretending they are equal.

To be fair, I don't know exactly how Flops on RDNA2 will compare, but historically, if you compare an AMD GPU with the same number of Flops as an Nvidia GPU - the AMD GPU will perform worse in actual gaming.

We will see.
 

thelastword

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I have confidence. The same way I'm confident that Sony devs have the best in the business, MS has the best engineers. I have no doubt that the XSX will not only outperform the PS5 in raw numbers, but ever further from an engineering standpoint.
Hey, I have no issues in such a statement......It's what you think/believe......I'm not saying MS is incapable of building good hardware mind you......I'm just saying pound for pound at the same venue in the same ring, they have never KO'd Sony.....If there is a first time, who knows, but I will stick on the side of history.....Moreso I'm sticking on the side of a company which I know always push the latest they can put into their consoles at the time of release....It's their golden standard if you were.....PS4 utilized GDDR5 memory just on it's cusp and PRO had Vega features before Vega debuted, it implemented 64 rops in 2016, just not fed, which clues us tot he fact that if they wanted to feed these rops in 2016, they could have and sold PRO with 64 rops 12GB memory and higher bandwidth in 2016, but they opted against a $500 price point and the extra cooling that would incur.....

Lets be honest Sony is always ahead of the curve......PS2 had firewire, usb ports galore, large HD bay, played DVD and CD and many other features which the competition lacked on pure hardware features.....PS3 had Blu-ray, best DLNA and Media capabilities, both PS2 and PS3 full had hardware BC (real 100% BC). PS3 still is one of the best consoles for sound output and so is PS2/PS3 for the number of ways you can connect to a screen/tv/monitor. On PS3 you had built in Wi-Fi, internal storage, 3D tv support, motion control support and so much more, they pioneered/drove Blu-ray as they did DVD and it was beneficial to their games......

I really don't have to tell you of the PS4 situation over the XBONES. Share button, Fast Install, Shareplay, 8GB GDDR5, better GPU. In 2013 the XBOX launched with UHD bluray, but none of Sony's games utilized 100GB Blu-ray and they knew all games would be on the HDD for faster access so they saved some money, which is smart, pretty much all of Sony's games were within the 50Gb limit, maybe except GT, but that's because of additional content, patches and it's all on the HDD anyway.....Not once was their vision thwarted or changed to suit the competition or to beat to the tune of the competition, they always deliver the most cutting edge hardware and features they can at the time of release and PS5 will be no different, perhaps even more advanced because of all the emerging technologies that will be ripe for late 2020...

I understand your take and it's definitely a wait and see approach to see if MS breaks tradition, but it will be hard against Sony as a pure hardware company......They have too many links and affiliates and we all know how deep in research and development they were with AMD for PS5, so it would not be just to deliver 9.2TF or some such.....
 

Romulus

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Hey, I have no issues in such a statement......It's what you think/believe......I'm not saying MS is incapable of building good hardware mind you......I'm just saying pound for pound at the same venue in the same ring, they have never KO'd Sony.....If there is a first time, who knows, but I will stick on the side of history.....Moreso I'm sticking on the side of a company which I know always push the latest they can put into their consoles at the time of release....It's their golden standard if you were.....PS4 utilized GDDR5 memory just on it's cusp and PRO had Vega features before Vega debuted, it implemented 64 rops in 2016, just not fed, which clues us tot he fact that if they wanted to feed these rops in 2016, they could have and sold PRO with 64 rops 12GB memory and higher bandwidth in 2016, but they opted against a $500 price point and the extra cooling that would incur.....

Lets be honest Sony is always ahead of the curve......PS2 had firewire, usb ports galore, large HD bay, played DVD and CD and many other features which the competition lacked on pure hardware features.....PS3 had Blu-ray, best DLNA and Media capabilities, both PS2 and PS3 full had hardware BC (real 100% BC). PS3 still is one of the best consoles for sound output and so is PS2/PS3 for the number of ways you can connect to a screen/tv/monitor. On PS3 you had built in Wi-Fi, internal storage, 3D tv support, motion control support and so much more, they pioneered/drove Blu-ray as they did DVD and it was beneficial to their games......

I really don't have to tell you of the PS4 situation over the XBONES. Share button, Fast Install, Shareplay, 8GB GDDR5, better GPU. In 2013 the XBOX launched with UHD bluray, but none of Sony's games utilized 100GB Blu-ray and they knew all games would be on the HDD for faster access so they saved some money, which is smart, pretty much all of Sony's games were within the 50Gb limit, maybe except GT, but that's because of additional content, patches and it's all on the HDD anyway.....Not once was their vision thwarted or changed to suit the competition or to beat to the tune of the competition, they always deliver the most cutting edge hardware and features they can at the time of release and PS5 will be no different, perhaps even more advanced because of all the emerging technologies that will be ripe for late 2020...

I understand your take and it's definitely a wait and see approach to see if MS breaks tradition, but it will be hard against Sony as a pure hardware company......They have too many links and affiliates and we all know how deep in research and development they were with AMD for PS5, so it would not be just to deliver 9.2TF or some such.....
I agree with much of this, but when xbox sets a goal to shoot for power and high fidelity visuals, it does just that. X360 was a beast at release, as was the OG xbox and X1X. Xbox one was the odd man out because of the shift in focus. They definitely seem back on track.
 

Razvedka

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A more realistic comparison:



Don't look at AMD and Nvidia TFLOPS alone because they are apples and oranges.
I think this is outdated now. Siege just launched with a Vulkan option and my FPS went through the friggin roof.

Vulkan is amazing.