malingenie
Member
I will seriously consider suicide when "baldie" becomes a banned word. Speaking as a bald person. This exponential foray into Pc behavior is rustling my jimmies.
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Ongoing campaign to ban the R-word
- Thread starter planar1280
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So the solution is to stop being a dick.
edit: I really don't care about it being banned or not. But I'm all for awareness that the word "retard" is really offensive to certain people and that maybe people should grow up and not use derogatory words as adjectives?
edit: I really don't care about it being banned or not. But I'm all for awareness that the word "retard" is really offensive to certain people and that maybe people should grow up and not use derogatory words as adjectives?
Okay, so banning retard will lead to the banning of baldie HAS to be a slippery slope fallacy, right?
les papillons sexuels
Banned
you know, it's easier to just not be offended by it.
If people dont get offended by being called something, then people dont call you that. I've never heard of someone getting angry because they were called a mountain lion, or a doctor.
"you're such a fucking doctor" for example, if you're not offended by it, who the fuck cares when someone calls you it. If enough people stop caring, then the word stops getting used.
If people dont get offended by being called something, then people dont call you that. I've never heard of someone getting angry because they were called a mountain lion, or a doctor.
"you're such a fucking doctor" for example, if you're not offended by it, who the fuck cares when someone calls you it. If enough people stop caring, then the word stops getting used.
Devolution
Member
I'll be sure to tell my black friends not to be offended by "nigger." I'll stop being offended by "cunt." And I'll tell my gay friends to stop being offended by "faggot."
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Any word or phrase that accurately describes a diminished capacity for thought is not going to be very nice.
Yes. Welcome to the world of human language.
Words become antiquated. There was nothing wrong with the word "colored" 100 years ago, now it's considered offensive.
It happens in every language....and for some reason people are completely baffled by it.
Thank you.
Using the word "retard" isn't a bad thing if A) used respectfully and B) the referent is actually mentally retarded. If it's used as an everyday insult (for instance: "that's so retarded") then yeah, I have issues with you (ambiguous you, that is). It's no different than saying "oh, that's so gay".
Can we say the campaign and anyone supporting it is stupid? No, let's not do that because it would be offensive to legitimately stupid people. (def: lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind)
Ban it too. Let's ban all words and just sit in silence.
This is a very weak straw man argument.
Devolution
Member
Or you could accept the fact that there are words you shouldn't use because of how derogatory they are to a certain group. Always the same argument, words aren't that important and people should get over pejoratives but god forbid you strip some out of my lexicon.
I'll give you a 'probably'.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
A strawman? He's directly on point. The problem is that people are going to say mean things about other people if they want to. "Retarded" isn't necessarily a worse word than "moron", "stupid", "idiot" or even "slow". They all basically mean the same thing. Is it really going to make a difference to you if someone says "Oh, what a mentally handicapped person" if they mean it in the exact same way as they do when they say "retarded"? The problem is that mental handicaps are by and large looked upon negatively. Anything that is looked upon negatively is going to be used to insult, especially if it's a trait that can be applied to a person to marginalize them.
Edit: I completely understand why people want the usage of certain words to fall out of favor. They think doing so is going to stop the hurt the words cause. The problem is that it's not going to, because people are going to feel what they are going to feel. This campaign would probably be more successful if it was up front about that fact.
That is not the same thing, and you know it.
malingenie
Member
I know where you are coming from, i do... and i know my stance is illogical and childish, but dammit i lived my whole life being called names and calling people names... all i can say is deal with it. They are words. Offend me back if i offend you, or graciously take the joke. Maybe one day i will understand the need to ban words, but not tonight.
By itself? Sure. In usage, though, it's frequently a pejorative for people with developmental disabilities. Again, could you perhaps consider that "homosexual" and "gay" do not necessarily carry the same connotations as "fag?"
EDIT: To be clear, I don't support banning any words. I think people should reconsider the impression others will get of them when they use certain words, as it's in their interest not to come off as an asshole. Ahh, "asshole." What a lovely, generic insult.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
I'm gay, I don't get offended by it.
And considering how often the term "nigger" is used within the black community, I'd assume most arn't really offended by the term as wholeheartedly as they claim to be.
I get that there's a history with these words, but if you dont let it bother you, then you dont care when it gets used, and when enough people stop caring, those connotations disappear, while the history remains.
I think people are confused(or maybe Im confused)
Theyre banning the word retard for medical uses so you CAN use the word retard. You can say the word retard because it no longer refers to a medical condition. The same way 'dumb' no longer refers to people who cant speak(deaf, dumb, and blind) so now we can freely say it without insulting people who are mute(do they like being called 'mutes?')
Mein gott, this post.
If you don't care about offending people who would be offended at the word retarded - keep using the word retarded in any way you see fit. If you care about offending those people - don't use the word. It's the same argument for faggot. It's a slur, and it's used recreationally sometimes - and it can really hurt people.
I don't -need- to use the word, the word has no importance to me, I worry more about maybe offending those people. If you don't, that's your prerogative.
I don't -need- to use the word, the word has no importance to me, I worry more about maybe offending those people. If you don't, that's your prerogative.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
The difference is that there's nothing inherently bad about being or appearing gay. But being or acting unintelligent is kind of a bummer. Retarded is a feel-bad label, and so is "intellectually disabled," and so is the next label they think of, no matter who it gets applied to.
Well it's a bit confusing. They banned it's use medically (which is a good thing) but they also want people to stop using it in common speech too. The combination makes no sense to me. If it no longer technically means mentally challenged, then what is the harm of using it in slang?
a Master Ninja
Member
"differently able" just seems like a dishonest term to me. I've got a family member who survived a terrible car crash but isn't able to speak, feed herself, or do much of anything now. She isn't "differently abled"; she became severally disabled. I guess "physically and mentally challenged" is a more positive spin to put on her situation. Obviously she wouldn't understand any label you might want to put on her, but I think "differently able" would make my relatives cringe more than "disabled" or "handicapped" ever would.
Well, alright. But a question: are there any derogatory words thrown at you that are associated with who you are?
malingenie
Member
Actually today i got an email from work saying that the word is super offensive and shouldn't be used in any context, ever. That's why i am keyed up, i guess.
Thought and Word policing.
As much as I hate Rush. When you go after people like him, over freedom of speech issues, due to politically motivated agendas. Things like this come from that. People feel they have the right to tell you what you can and can't say.
America throwing away it's freedoms.
As much as I hate Rush. When you go after people like him, over freedom of speech issues, due to politically motivated agendas. Things like this come from that. People feel they have the right to tell you what you can and can't say.
America throwing away it's freedoms.
Trying to be considerate of others' feelings seems to be a foreign concept to most of this thread.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
So if I call someone and idiot, and mean they are mentally handicapped when I say it, what's the difference exactly? I mean, what have you really achieved by removing it from the language? People still feel how they feel. Are you really going to feel better if they call you retarded by another name? If they want to give something a negative connotation they are going to and there's nothing you can do about it but convince them not to feel the way they feel. I think that's a much more worthy cause, and will solve the problem in general.
But honestly though, I don't think I've ever actually heard anyone use it as a slur in my life. Anecdotal, I know, but I would be interested in seeing some statistics. If someone says "that is so dumb" is it really better than "that is so retarded"?
Actually, learning to not be offended by the words and opinions of others is perhaps the only real strategic outcome in this world since words are only as powerful as the meanings the individual ascribes to them or the people making it.
It's basically the path chosen by virtually all ascetic doctrines be it Stoicism or Buddhism. Do no harm and let none be taken and so forth.
A contrary strategy to that will technically forever doom the person to be offended. They will never witness otherwise.
Therefore the most effective solution is to essentially ensure that people don't take offense or give it by intention. The words themselves are just distractions to the underlying cause and effect.
malingenie
Member
Absolutely. But i grew up in South America, things may be a bit different there. The Color of my skin, my slowness as a child, my body type... all these things were ripe for mockery. And its ok.
"Idiot" is generic. I can't think of any instance in which a group of people was singled out and demeaned in association with that particular term.
If you're in the presence of someone who doesn't like you using that word, you can very easily do the reasonable thing and stop using the word, at least around them. Or are you really so attached to your vocabulary that you can't even stow it for the sake of polite company?
Raonak
Banned
Ok. this whole campaign is intellectually challenged. that implies It's stupid, idiotic andor moronic, but not offending anyone.
south park better make an episode about this.
Lolwat. This is just straight up factually incorrect. Look up the history of the word before you talk about it.
Okay, I can dig you as a person.
edit: I thought "colorado of my skin" was some slang for "white boy", lol.
At one time idiot meant the same thing as retard:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot#Disability
I agree with you here, that's just common decency.
Count Dookkake
Member
Um, you know that "idiot" means pretty much the same thing as "retard," right?
Even has the same medical pedigree.
EDIT: Double beaten!
The point is, any sort of malice found within a slur is only there because people let themselves get offended by it.
I don't see how this makes it any less offensive or unacceptable.
I am factually wrong on the case of "idiot," and I apologize. I guess what I meant is that it has become generic.
This is true. Do you think there are any circumstances under which someone has a right to be offended, or should everyone just shrug it off?
This is true. Do you think there are any circumstances under which someone has a right to be offended, or should everyone just shrug it off?
Devolution
Member
I'd beg to differ.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
Actually, idiot is much more specific than "retarded" as it also denotes mental retardation. It just doesn't have the attached stigma. My question is, what happens if "retard" goes out of fashion and "idiot" gets the stigma?
Assssssss umptions. I don't use the word in front of anyone mentally handicapped. I'm sitting here advocating that we should be addressing the underlying issue (negative connotations with the condition in general), instead of trying to control the usage of peoples language, and you think I'm saying the opposite, probably because you're not actually reading what I am saying. But quite frankly this campaign isn't just about stopping people from using it as a slur, at least that's not how it's been presented to me by some individuals who advocate for the cause. It's about literally stopping the usage of the word entirely, regardless of context to them. That's where I have a problem. I certainly have no problem with regarding the mentally challenged as human beings worthy of our kindness and respect.
I disagree. The malice comes from the way the user means for the word to be taken, not from how the other person receives it.
You have no fucking right to tell someone what is or is not acceptable. If you want to be offended by things, that's your own mental issue. It does not give you the right to ban words in the English language.
Everyone has the right to be offended no matter what the case. It's especially difficult to shrug off when a word has such a weighted history, like "nigger", but I just think people should work on not letting a word have so much power over them.
Raonak
Banned
Since retard doesn't actually mean mentally retarted anymore, rather most people use it inplace of idiot;
you could argue that with prolonged use it too will become a generic word
sounds like a good counter-campaign
Sure. There will be people who have problems with any word. Sometimes it's because they found out there is some kind of history of hatred associated with the word, sometimes they just don't like the way it sounds, sometimes it's out of ignorance, etc.
However, none of the above, or any other reason, makes it acceptable to be offended at a word rather than the intent expressed. If somebody uses a slur in a hateful way, obviously that is unacceptable. If somebody uses it without any ill intent, and you come down on them for being ignorant that the word upsets you, you're the one who is acting foolish. Words only have as much power as you give them.
Personally I try not to use words that I think will offend people around me, unless their offense is particularly absurd. But I don't think one should be expected to act that way. It's a choice.
Words in general are our way of communicating things like emotion, thoughts etc. I don't expect everyone to get all zen about it - it's extremely possible to hurt someone with words.
If someone had a mother who died, and I said to them something extremely cruel about it, who knows what - would that same advice be given? Don't be offended by it, it's just words? Or would you punch me in the mouth?
That's such a simplistic and unrealistic expectation. If someone has been called, I don't know... a faggot by their father growing up, got beaten up to the chorus of that word - would you not see how someone using it even recreationally, with non-ill intent, could severely offend or hurt that person?
Words have power, this "don't let words have power over you" expectation is unreasonable.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
I think we should take the power out of the word by working to eliminate the underlying reason for why it was said with malice.
"idiot" "moron" "imbecile" were words labeled on adults who scored below a certain number on IQ tests. Those words, combined with the low IQ scores were used to describe the intelligence level of adults by comparing them to the intelligence level of children. I can't remember what the order was but I think "idiot" was someone who scored the lowest (maybe below 30?) and was diagnosed with an intelligence level of a 5 year old (or somewhere around there)
I'd have to open my anthropology texts to get the exact ratings
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