Yeah this seems like the best way to deal with it. Though getting it banned in medical terminology was a good idea.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Ongoing campaign to ban the R-word
- Thread starter planar1280
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Yeah this seems like the best way to deal with it. Though getting it banned in medical terminology was a good idea.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I say retarded online and to friends, but I'd never say it in public...near strangers...
Really, how fucking hard is it to be considerate of other people's feelings? Pretty damn hard, evidently!
I have as much right to be offended by it as a colored person has to be offended by the n-word.
You have no fucking right to tell someone what is or is not acceptable. If you want to be offended by things, that's your own mental issue. It does not give you the right to ban words in the English language.
I have as much right to be offended by it as a colored person has to be offended by the n-word.
"idiot" "moron" "imbecile" were words labeled on adults who scored below a certain number on IQ tests. Those words, combined with the low IQ scores were used to describe the intelligence level of adults by comparing them to the intelligence level of children. I can't remember what the order was but I think "idiot" was someone who scored the lowest (maybe below 30?) and was diagnosed with an intelligence of a 5 year old (or somewhere around there)
I'd have to open my anthropology texts to get the exact ratings
That may have been what people used the word for, but it's not the original menaing. What you are describing would be the word ignoramus.
We have used the word idiot to mean someone dumb for a long time. However that was never the meaning. Just like we use the word retard. The word retard has taken on it's own meaning.
When a young kid uses it, they are saying WOW you are a mentally handicapped kid with medical problems. They are just using in to replace the word dumb. Dumb and Retard, have the same meaning the way it is being expressed.
No matter how many words you ban, another word will just replace it. It's a never ending cycle.
I disagree. The malice comes from the way the user means for the word to be taken, not from how the other person receives it.
The malice only comes from the way the user means for the word to be taken. It's all about context. Since I'm using the word "nigger" in this sentence, will people be offended by it? I don't think most people will. If I said, "I hate niggers", it would be a different story.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
I have as much right to be offended by it as a colored person has to be offended by the n-word.
I agree completely, if the word is used with malice or to cause hurt feelings. But if I use it in a context that is completely benign, do you feel the same way? If I say "Nigger is a slur that was used to represent black Americans in a negative light and should never be used," is the usage of the word in that sentence offensive? (I deeply apologize if it is, but I am not sure how it could be.) The problem with that word is that it has so much weight behind it that almost ANY form of usage is exclusively meant to cause emotional harm to another person. I don't think that's the case with "retarded". Nowhere near.
Really, how fucking hard is it to be considerate of other people's feelings? Pretty damn hard, evidently!
I have as much right to be offended by it as a colored person has to be offended by the n-word.
Sure, be offended by it. However you have no right to tell me when I can and can't use the word. Period.
I would also say comparing the word Nigger, and the word Retard is a bit of a stretch. Since Nigger was used a derogatory word to describe black slaves. Retard was a medical word to describe people who had mental retardation. It was not designed to be a put down.
The word Nigger has taken on it's own meaning in the minority community. Many races use the word, (mainly black and hispanic), to speak to each-other. Nobody complains about this. Nobody is trying to ban the word out right. We hear the word in music every day.
With the word retard, people are trying to ban it out of everyone's vocabulary. Even though it is NOT used as a put down toward people who are mentally handicapped. Instead it has take on it's own meaning and is used inplace of the word dumb.
In either case, people should have the right to use whatever language they want. If you do not want to use it, thats fantastic. If you dont want your kids to use it ever, teach them.
However do not think, for one moment. You have the right to tell me what I can and can't fucking say.
Honestly, I think the only practical way to end the cycle is to use a scientific word that is so annoyingly difficult to say or write that it becomes a name solely used by academics.
don't be so lopadotemachoselachogaleokranioleipsanodrimhypotrimmatosilphiparaomelitokatakechymenokichlepikossyphophattoperisteralektryonoptekephalliokiglopeleiolagoiosiraiobaphetraganopterygoned.
Stuff
Eh, no one is going to be able to legally ban the word - but can you at least appreciate that the nice thing to do would be maybe not be using those hot button slurs?
Chink, Nigger, Retard, Faggot, Wop, Kike etc etc. Sure, use them to your hearts content - but why would you want to?
Everyone has the right to be offended no matter what the case. It's especially difficult to shrug off when a word has such a weighted history, like "nigger", but I just think people should work on not letting a word have so much power over them.
Alright, cool. Do you agree that people can help the process of "burying" such language by not wantonly using iffy words in a non-malicious context when they know plenty of alternatives?
Sure. There will be people who have problems with any word. Sometimes it's because they found out there is some kind of history of hatred associated with the word, sometimes they just don't like the way it sounds, sometimes it's out of ignorance, etc.
However, none of the above, or any other reason, makes it acceptable to be offended at a word rather than the intent expressed. If somebody uses a slur in a hateful way, obviously that is unacceptable. If somebody uses it without any ill intent, and you come down on them for being ignorant that the word upsets you, you're the one who is acting foolish. Words only have as much power as you give them.
Personally I try not to use words that I think will offend people around me, unless their offense is particularly absurd. But I don't think one should be expected to act that way. It's a choice.
Intent is important, but that doesn't instantly absolve the choice of word. As is the case with racial slurs, the word itself becomes emblematic of offense and malice, and is likely to remind people of any experiences where such words were used against them in a wholly offensive context.
I'd just like to point out also that there's never ever been a "generic" word. Every standard "non-offensive" insult out there has as much meaning as "gay" and "retard" do today, whether it's from a different language or our own. Stopping people from saying words never stopped prejudice then, and won't stop prejudice now. Until people learn how to stop being cunts (?) to each other, hatred and prejudice will never become a relic of human history.
Yes, absolutely. People will have hangups like that for all kinds of reasons, and not just about words. I am kind of obsessive about keeping my hands clean, and my friends and coworkers are kind enough to avoid shaking my hand or asking me to hold something greasy etc. I appreciate it. However, when it slips their mind or if we're trying to get something done, I don't sweat it because at the end of the day it's my issue and I'd be an asshole for imposing on them. I'm thankful for the respect they show, but it's an optional gesture.That's such a simplistic and unrealistic expectation. If someone has been called, I don't know... a faggot by their father growing up, got beaten up to the chorus of that word - would you not see how someone using it even recreationally, with non-ill intent, could severely offend or hurt that person?
Words have power, this "don't let words have power over you" expectation is unreasonable.
We have a new guy at work who comes in two days a week and he doesn't know I prefer not to shake hands. He's the kind of guy who shakes your hand every time he greets you. I haven't bothered to mention that I'd prefer not to shake, because I'd rather not impose on him that way. It's my problem, not his.
I realize my small hangup with clean hands might not hold the same weight as somebody who has been tormented or abused, but I think the principle is the same. It's nice not to offend people if you're aware of it, but at the end of the day I don't think it's reasonable to expect everybody to stop using certain patterns of syllables or letters simply because everybody thinks it's OK to get irrational about them.
Everybody ends up equating certain words with hate, and then the blame shifts to the word rather than real hate. This happens with more than just words.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
With the word retard, people are trying to ban it out of everyone's vocabulary. Even though it is NOT used as a put down toward people who are mentally handicapped. Instead it has take on it's own meaning and is used inplace of the word dumb.
Actually, the word "dumb" originally denoted someone who could not speak.
I'd just like to point out also that there's never ever been a "generic" word. Every standard "non-offensive" insult out there has as much meaning as "gay" and "retard" do today, whether it's from a different language or our own. Stopping people from saying words never stopped prejudice then, and won't stop prejudice now. Until people learn how to stop being cunts (?) to each other, hatred and prejudice will never become a relic of human history.
You're right, but there's a difference between words where the offense is a faded scar and ones where it's still an open wound.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Word choice is not the problem here. You can't turn a negative into a positive by hiding it behind flowery language. If anything, the hushed whispers and sideways talk just makes it even more dehumanizing.I don't see how this makes it any less offensive or unacceptable.
What are people really defending here? People who struggle with mental issues or their own prudishness?
don't be so lopadotemachoselachogaleokranioleipsanodrimhypotrimmatosilphiparaomelitokatakechymenokichlepikossyphophattoperisteralektryonoptekephalliokiglopeleiolagoiosiraiobaphetraganopterygoned.
that doesn't work because you can just shorten it by taking the first few letters or last few letters. Even the guy who described the symptoms of Down's syndrome back in 1866, John Langdon Down, has had his name tarnished by people using "Downy" as an insult. People can, and will, turn anything into an insult.
Sure, be offended by it. However you have no right to tell me when I can and can't use the word. Period.
If you want to use that word, then by all means. Just don't be surprised if you get a hostile response.
I would also say comparing the word Nigger, and the word Retard is a bit of a stretch. Since Nigger was used a derogatory word to describe black slaves. Retard was a medical word to describe people who had mental retardation. It was not designed to be a put down.
The word Nigger has taken on it's own meaning in the minority community. Many races use the word, (mainly black and hispanic), to speak to each-other. Nobody complains about this. Nobody is trying to ban the word out right. We hear the word in music every day.
With the word retard, people are trying to ban it out of everyone's vocabulary. Even though it is NOT used as a put down toward people who are mentally handicapped. Instead it has take on it's own meaning and is used inplace of the word dumb.
However, it IS used as a put down, and I treat it as such. Why can't they just use the word dumb? Is it really that hard?
In either case, people should have the right to use whatever language they want. If you do not want to use it, thats fantastic. If you dont want your kids to use it ever, teach them.
However do not think, for one moment. You have the right to tell me what I can and can't fucking say.
I doubt you would be saying any of this if the insult pertained to something you were born with, be it skin color, sexual orientation, etc.
This seems vaguley familiar in people using the word "gay" for things that were stupid.
Doubt this will go anywhere.
Actually, a hero came along and solved that.
Alright, cool. Do you agree that people can help the process of "burying" such language by not wantonly using iffy words in a non-malicious context when they know plenty of alternatives?
I'm of the opinion that using slurs in a non-malicious context will neuter their connotation so they'll be less effective when they are used in a malicious context.
Devolution
Member
One person using a word without malicious intent doesn't bar someone from being reminded of what that word has meant to them in the past.
It's a request, not a ban. Don't act like it's some terrible tragedy that you have to second-guess calling people "retarded."
All one can hope to do is make those who don't mind rethinking their use of certain words aware of why using "retard" is quite demeaning. I know I need to use it less, and will definitely do so from now on. If others don't want to, then oh well, but it will reflect poorly on them when it's explained just why it's hurtful to others and they continue to use it.
I'm of the opinion that using slurs in a non-malicious context will neuter their connotation so they'll be less effective when they are used in a malicious context.
This doesn't really work to me. If someone were to call me a cunt, I know why they're doing it, and it's to attack my gender. A pal calling me cunt isn't going to change that fact.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
However, it IS used as a put down, and I treat it as such. Why can't they just use the word dumb? Is it really that hard?
Because dumb doesn't have the same meaning. Dumb is just a synonym for stupid in our vernacular. Retarded has much more behind it. When I say "That is retarded" I mean to say that "that is such a bad idea/thing that it seriously makes me question your judgment or understanding." I can't really think of a word that does the same.
Yes, absolutely. People will have hangups like that for all kinds of reasons, and not just about words. I am kind of obsessive about keeping my hands clean, and my friends and coworkers are kind enough to avoid shaking my hand or asking me to hold something greasy etc. I appreciate it. However, when it slips their mind or if we're trying to get something done, I don't sweat it because at the end of the day it's my issue and I'd be an asshole for imposing on them. I'm thankful for the respect they show, but it's an optional gesture.
We have a new guy at work who comes in two days a week and he doesn't know I prefer not to shake hands. He's the kind of guy who shakes your hand every time he greets you. I haven't bothered to mention that I'd prefer not to shake, because I'd rather not impose on him that way. It's my problem, not his.
I realize my small hangup with clean hands might not hold the same weight as somebody who has been tormented or abused, but I think the principle is the same. It's nice not to offend people if you're aware of it, but at the end of the day I don't think it's reasonable to expect everybody to stop using certain patterns of syllables or letters simply because everybody thinks it's OK to get irrational about them.
Everybody ends up equating certain words with hate, and then the blame shifts to the word rather than real hate. This happens with more than just words.
I can appreciate that - and that's a good position for you to hold. I wouldn't say that someone who has a hangup should lord it over anyone else - but this is simply a numbers game. There are a LOT of people who are offended at the word retard, just as there are at the word faggot, and other words that are used recreationally and as slurs.
To avoid issue altogether, I don't use them. I don't see the need. If there is some obscure thing someone has an issue with, and I don't know about it - that's something else - but if there is a commonly used insult/slur bandied about that I know can effect a lot of people - why bother to use it?
I'm of the opinion that using slurs in a non-malicious context will neuter their connotation so they'll be less effective when they are used in a malicious context.
I'm a little torn. While I can see where you're coming from, this approach still smacks of putting out fire with gasoline.
ThisWreckage
Banned
I envision a future where everyone is placed in a muzzle because the government doesn't want to risk the chance of someone getting offended by what someone says.
Count Dookkake
Member
I envision a future where everyone is placed in a muzzle because the government doesn't want to risk the chance of someone getting offended by what someone says.
A variation on Harrison Bergeron.
Because dumb doesn't have the same meaning. Dumb is just a synonym for stupid in our vernacular. Retarded has much more behind it. When I say "That is retarded" I mean to say that "that is such a bad idea/thing that it seriously makes me question your judgment or understanding." I can't really think of a word that does the same.
I'm not even sure how to respond to this.
I love the defense of "use the word then".
I don't use those words. What I do is fight for freedom of speech. My stance is this.
If you dont like what someone says, don't talk to them
If you dont like what you hear on the radio, change the station
If you don't like what you see on TV, change the channel.
I personally don't use many of the words people are talking about here. However I will defend the right of someone who does want to use them. It's also a complete double standard. The groups that complain the loudest, and have the most power in politics, are those that get their way. The word Honkey, Cracker, Hosier, idiot, moron can all be used on the radio/tv. All those words are racist or derogatory slurs.
The difference is people didn't cry and complain about them, so they have yet to be banned. Someone out there is offended by them, but they are not being banned. Why?
The best way to defeat a word, is by taking away it's power. If people were not so sensitive, it would not make any difference what was said.
You could say any word in the English language to me, and it does not offend me in the slightest. It's a word, What do I care? Why should I care?
It's up to PEOPLE to have morals and be decent. It's up to the person to realize something may offend someone else and not use it. It's not up to organizations and groups to tell me or someone else what we can't say.
I don't use those words. What I do is fight for freedom of speech. My stance is this.
If you dont like what someone says, don't talk to them
If you dont like what you hear on the radio, change the station
If you don't like what you see on TV, change the channel.
I personally don't use many of the words people are talking about here. However I will defend the right of someone who does want to use them. It's also a complete double standard. The groups that complain the loudest, and have the most power in politics, are those that get their way. The word Honkey, Cracker, Hosier, idiot, moron can all be used on the radio/tv. All those words are racist or derogatory slurs.
The difference is people didn't cry and complain about them, so they have yet to be banned. Someone out there is offended by them, but they are not being banned. Why?
The best way to defeat a word, is by taking away it's power. If people were not so sensitive, it would not make any difference what was said.
You could say any word in the English language to me, and it does not offend me in the slightest. It's a word, What do I care? Why should I care?
It's up to PEOPLE to have morals and be decent. It's up to the person to realize something may offend someone else and not use it. It's not up to organizations and groups to tell me or someone else what we can't say.
I envision a future where everyone is placed in a muzzle because the government doesn't want to risk the chance of someone getting offended by what someone says.
I envision a future where our day to day lives are a little more pleasant because people are considerate of others. There are no muzzles or governments involved in this process.
All one can hope to do is make those who don't mind rethinking their use of certain words aware of why using "retard" is quite demeaning. I know I need to use it less, and will definitely do so from now on. If others don't want to, then oh well, but it will reflect poorly on them when it's explained just why it's hurtful to others and they continue to use it.
A word can't be inherently demeaning, just like a word can't be racist. Thoughts, ideas, expressions, people, etc can be demeaning. A word might sometimes be used in a demeaning way, while sometimes not. You can't "make people aware" of something that is simply not true.
This doesn't really work to me. If someone were to call me a cunt, I know why they're doing it, and it's to attack my gender. A pal calling me cunt isn't going to change that fact.
If "cunt" is being used to attack a gender, then it is most definitely being used in a malicious context.
I love the defense of "use the word then".
I don't use those words. What I do is fight for freedom of speech. My stance is this.
If you dont like what someone says, don't talk to them
If you dont like what you hear on the radio, change the station
If you don't like what you see on TV, change the channel.
I personally don't use many of the words people are talking about here. However I will defend the right of someone who does want to use them. It's also a complete double standard. The groups that complain the loudest, and have the most power in politics, are those that get there way. The word Honkey, Cracker, Hosier, idiot, moron can all be used on the radio. All those words are racist or derogatory slurs.
The difference is people didn't cry and complain about them, so they have yet to be banned.
The best way to defeat a word, is by taking away it's power. If people were not so sensitive, it would not make any difference what was said.
You could say any word in the English language to me, and it does not offend me in the slightest. It's a word, What do I care? Why should I care?
It's up to PEOPLE to have morals and be decent. It's up to the person to realize something may offend someone else and not use it. It's not up to organizations and groups to tell me or someone else what we can't say.
What do you think people in this thread are suggesting?
Hmm I didn't realize this. I always associated the word 'retard' specifically with 'down syndrome'.I have Asperger's/autism and I take serious issue with being called a retard, or hearing it bandied about as if it's a harmless insult.
A word can't be inherently demeaning, just like a word can't be racist. Thoughts, ideas, expressions, people, etc can be demeaning. A word might sometimes be used in a demeaning way, while sometimes not. You can't "make people aware" of something that is simply not true.
Why can't one word do the same thing 2+ words can do? What's that inherent difference?
I remember once seeing someone with cerebral palsy get called a retard, and he looked fucking crushed. All sorts of people with disabilities get hurt by that word.Hmm I didn't realize this. I always associated the word 'retard' specifically with 'down syndrome'.
Look, it's not just that the word medically means mentally challenged - it's that it's used casually to insult people - and it is then applied to someone as a state of being "haha, tim is being such a fucking retard today, hahaha" and then, "oh look, that guy over there - he's retarded".
Devolution
Member
A word can't be inherently demeaning, just like a word can't be racist. Thoughts, ideas, expressions, people, etc can be demeaning. A word might sometimes be used in a demeaning way, while sometimes not. You can't "make people aware" of something that is simply not true.
Please explain nigger and faggot to me then.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
A word can't be inherently demeaning, just like a word can't be racist. Thoughts, ideas, expressions, people, etc can be demeaning. A word might sometimes be used in a demeaning way, while sometimes not. You can't "make people aware" of something that is simply not true.
A word can be inherently demeaning if the only possible meaning of that word is one of malicious intent, I would say. I just think those words are fairly rare.
Edit: I would also say the meaning is far less important than the intent though.
What do you think people in this thread are suggesting?
The point is. "banning" the words is a slippery slope. It has ruined almost all media in North America over the last 20 years. It has ruined the careers of many people for a simple slip up. There are not just words you can't say on thew radio now. There are entire topics. Many people were marched into offices after what Rush said, and can no longer even talk about woman, or sex. Period. Almost everything is now an FCC violation or not allowed because companies are scared of being sued by special interest groups.
I am not just talking about racist words or put downs. Like I said, It's a slippery slope, and almost all adult discussion in North America is dead. Every year it becomes worse.
People feel they can ruin the careers of guys they do not like, the moment they make a mistake, or express their true feelings. EVERYONE is fake now. Everyone. I mean, Ed Shultz just went on TV the other day and openly lied to his own viewers over his punishment for calling a woman a slut which he did in 2011. Nobody is real, everything is fake, everyone is afraid if they say anything, they will be attacked.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
The fact that you typed those words and weren't banned just proves his point. Context and intent are really important.Please explain nigger and faggot to me then.
Please explain nigger and faggot to me then.
Nigger is complicated in the sense that the word proper (as opposed to something like "negro") was created for the sole purpose of being malicious.
Faggot has a rather colorful etymology. There were times where it had a completely different meaning (the famous "bundle of sticks") and was not in any way offensive. How it became a slur for homosexuals today is still unclear I believe.
It's nice to see people defending all forms of language and elaborating on content vs. context, and intelligently cutting through the political correctness.
Brilliant.The fact that you typed those words and weren't banned just proves his point. Context and intent are really important.
"Nigger" wasn't considered derogatory till the 20th century and "Faggot" has multiple meanings that eventually spun into referring exclusively to homosexuals. Neither of those words were initially made to be derogatory.Please explain nigger and faggot to me then.
Nigger is complicated in the sense that the word proper (as opposed to something like "negro") was created for the sole purpose of being malicious.
Faggot has a rather colorful etymology. There were times where it had a completely different meaning (the famous "bundle of sticks") and was not in any way offensive. How it became a slur for homosexuals today is still unclear I believe.
It's because they would throw homosexuals on the fire with all the other "faggots". I believe is how it got it's meaning. Louie did a bit about it on his show even.
There are a few words in the English language that have been rooted in such hatred that nobody uses them. Or I should say, many people don't (Nigger is still a widely, popular, and extremely used word in the minority community).
I have no problem with people CHOOSING now to use words. Any thoughtful, good person won't. I am against others telling people what they can or cant say. I am against others trying to ruin the career of people over freedom of speech.
If you dont like it, don't listen, walk away, change the channel, change the station.
Please explain nigger and faggot to me then.
Those words have widely varying meanings and implications depending on how they are used.
ThisWreckage
Banned
I envision a future where our day to day lives are a little more pleasant because people are considerate of others. There are no muzzles or governments involved in this process.
Unpleasant words are a part of life. So are deformities of the physical and mental kind. I don't believe in censorship of any kind. People should be respectful, but it is a person's right to use whatever language they deem appropriate. This is coming from a person that doesn't say "retarded" or "gay" in negative ways.
Devolution
Member
The fact that you typed those words and weren't banned just proves his point. Context and intent are really important.
Actually it doesn't. Since there is no other context to actually use them in the direction of someone else. I'm not going to say "haha what a faggot/nigger" like the way people call others "retards."
- Status
- Not open for further replies.