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Ongoing campaign to ban the R-word
- Thread starter planar1280
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Michelle Bachman is the sort of person who would freely use the word faggot, (I think) is what he's trying to say
.Michelle Bachman is the sort of person who would freely use the word faggot, is what he's trying to say
I don't think she's capable of coming up with the rationale I'm trying to use.
Edit: And to be honest, I really take offense to that implication. It tells me that you have a prejudicial notion of me based on only certain parts of my posts. It tells me you haven't been reading my arguments.
Cameron122
Member
As someone with cerebral palsy, I couldn't give less of a shit about what people call me. Granted, it took me a while to get there. If you ban one word, people are just going to use another. Personally, I think terms like "differently abled" are rather patronizing, like you're dancing around the issue. Instead of spreading Newspeak and upping the Thought Police, they should work to integrate handicaps into society as normal individuals. Every group gets hated on. Blacks, Whites, Gays, Jews, Catholics, everyone. Let people be, sure it'll hurt the kid's feelings, it hurt my feelings when I was his age. He'll grow up, and discover people who are worth his humour and his brightness. He'll find people that will love him for what he can do, rather than what he can't. People will love him because they will see him as strong, not weak.
Build more ramps though, need more of that shit.
Build more ramps though, need more of that shit.
Well, I don't think I would have that issue outside of this hypothetical. I tend not to use curse words and slurs in any formal or academic setting as I find them unbecoming (stylistically, not ethically) of a college student. I have nothing against those who do. However, I do use them amongst friends and out of frustration from life and online mulitiplayer gaming.
outunderthestars
Banned
The key is using person-first terminology:
person with a disability instead of disabled person for example
I've started volunteering with the Special Olympics and it has been a real eye opening experience.
Michelle Bachman is the sort of person who would freely use the word faggot, (I think) is what he's trying to say
lol
I just meant that she was straight.
I can see people taking offense to some cruel asshole who runs around and calls mentally handicap people "retards", but trying to eliminate the word entirely is pathetic.
Seriously people get so overly offended and sensitive now it's embarrassing.
"Oh my god I can't believe he said this movie was retarded - that's so insulting to that one mentally challenged young man I met three years ago."
There are so many other worthwhile things to spend your time and energy campaigning over. This is certainly not one of them.
Mmm. Just to be clear, I want to make sure people aren't thinking my point is to suggest a setting in which people should or should not use particular words, I just want to make clearer some points that a few people don't seem to understand.
If you don't want to be misunderstood, or judged or misrepresented for what you are saying, you should be more conscious of the words you use. This is common sense. Most people will immediately be off put by someone who swears like a pirate, for example - and that's a pretty normal reaction.
In that same vein, by regularly espousing words like 'faggot' for example, you could either unintentionally insult someone you care (or don't care) about - unintentionally give the general audience the idea that you are homophobic or like... a republican or something. It's very easy for that word to work against you, and I don't know why anyone would want to continue using it freely knowing that, especially when it could so easily be replaced with another word.
This is a bit of a tangent, but for the longest time I mispronounced eunuch, because I never heard it used outloud - nobody understood what I meant when I said it though, except people close enough to me to understand my intent. I made the conscious attempt to start pronouncing it correctly however, and now people do understand me, and I never have to spend any time explaining myself. I had no attachment to the mispronounced version of eunuch, and I wanted people to understand me as easily as possible - so I made the effort to use the word appropriately. Now I'm not trying to equate the two situations, I am just trying to emphasize that people aren't attached to words - when one doesn't work out for them - they usually are comfortable with using other ones that better represent their point/position. I don't see why this is any different.
Anticitizen One
Banned
wow what a great audience
Oh no no no, you misunderstood me - I wasn't trying to imply anything about you by saying that, I was just bad mouthing Michelle.
I should make more of an effort to be clear in my language, so these sorts of misunderstandings and offences don't happen.
Raonak
Banned
It originally ment blind/deaf people. but with years of overusage it's become so dilluted that it's lost it's meaning.
So really, we should just overuse retarded to the point it becomes so dilluted it looses it's original meaning.
It originally ment blind/deaf people. but with years of overusage it's become so dilluted that it's lost it's meaning.
So really, we should just overuse retarded to the point it becomes so dilluted it looses it's original meaning.
Dumb refers to mute people. It's still in technical use I believe too. Though your second point is valid.
It originally ment blind/deaf people. but with years of overusage it's become so dilluted that it's lost it's meaning.
So really, we should just overuse retarded to the point it becomes so dilluted it looses it's original meaning.
Cool, lets all do the same thing with faggot and nigger and kike while we're at it. You go first
.On the contrary, you see how you can offend somebody because of your context, without the use of any slur.
And to be honest, being a minority, the most offensive hate speech I've experienced involved no slurs at all. But maybe that's because my ethnicity doesn't have many colorful pejoratives.
On the contrary, you see how you can offend somebody because of your context, without the use of any slur.
And to be honest, being a minority, the most offensive hate speech I've experienced involved no slurs at all. But maybe that's because my ethnicity doesn't have many colorful pejoratives.
Context and lack there of can offend someone, wouldn't you agree? If the intent is not to offend, well - you make an effort to avoid saying offensive things. If you don't have that intent, then neither context, slurs or any combination of the two should really matter.
Context is the only thing that matters - that's exactly my point. You can offend without having the intent to offend if there is no context to suggest otherwise.
I appreciate succinctness in language as much as I appreciate long-winded soliloquies and florid vocabulary; I'll concede that there are better alternatives to faggot. The problem with your interchangeable paradigm is that it focuses on the individual for a particular utterance, rather than on society (and its respective constituents) to gauge that utterance in-context and with impartiality. You can never account for the sensibilities and the sensitiveness of all listening to, say, a radio or television broadcast. If one finds offense with language, that perception is inherently inter-subjective between the message sender and the message receiver e.g., if I go to a foreign non-English speaking country and start yelling faggot, I won't be considered a homophone, just a crazy man on the street yelling; or even consider utilizing localized lingo in a different part of America.
buckfutter
Member
Timedog calls Devo retarded in bed, confirmed.
I'm squarely in the camp that believes context is everything. There is no such thing as a word that's inherently abhorrent. That said, everyone would do well to try and be considerate with their word choice for the sake of others. Seems like this position is well represented in the thread already.
I should also add that as a straight, white, young male I am clearly well positioned to be talking about how words aren't offensive.
The only point in what? Whether or not someone -should- be offended? Or whether or not someone -will- be offended? If you are arguing the first, that's subjective - if you're arguing the second, you're being unreasonable.
If someone hears faggot, with or without context - many will be very offended, and I wouldn't blame them. I would just not not use the word faggot - sooooo much easier than supplying a context to not offend.
:|
wow what a great audience
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
banning words should pre-emptively solve this situation.
If I say the words 'intellectual disability' with the right kind of emphasis and wobble my hands and legs around, while going cross eyed and laughing, well, pretty soon they'll want to ban that as well.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
I agree with this. Anyone using this word regularly should reconsider
I agree that they have a right to be offended. But I'm saying they're only offended because homophobes have used that word to offend them. What I want is to dilute all of the homophobia in the term so that homophobes will not be able to use it effectively.
Of course you can't account for everyone's sensibilities - that would be an impossible attempt - but, if you have previous knowledge - like you know that tons of people are offended at a particular word - avoid it. If you know something in a more personal context - like my mother doesn't like it when I say particular words that maybe most people don't find offensive, avoid it.
If it's no skin off my back, why make a big deal about it? If the argument is, you can't please everyone, so don't worry about offending - then why censor yourself at all?
So you're doing it for them? You're saying faggot as often as possible, for their sake?
I'm encouraging the use of its non-homophobic connotations.
I mean, people do understand that connotations change throughout history right?
Of course - but do you really want to be associated with the sort of people who use the word as a slur? Are you so attached to the word, do you so badly want the word to continue to be used - for the off chance that one day, people don't use it to demean homosexuals anymore?
Wouldn't it be so much easier to you know... stop saying faggot?
I'm not attached to the word at all.
If people stopped saying faggot, the word will become all the more powerful for homophobes to use.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
That's like, subjective. Some people are offended by the word "dumb."
Is that how it works? So the secret is to bombard people with a word that offends them, in the hopes that they become numb to it, or generations from now, people re-appropriate it entirely? Regardless of how it makes others perceive you - continue to use the word, regardless of the discomfort or even pain you may lay at someone's door - keep using it, as it's all for the greater good - because certainly -one day- the word won't hurt anymore?
If that's really how you feel go for it. Me? I don't want to be the sort of person who says faggot. I don't want people to look at me and think "Oh, he's the sort of person who says faggot" and I don't want to hurt people I know, and don't know - because the word faggot -should- be re-appropriated. I also don't want to be part of the crusade that reappropriates chink, or kike or any other offensive word - because hey, we use it enough, and they shouldn't be offended anymore - right?
I feel like you're putting words in my mouth. I don't think I ever implied that I want to bombard all of society with the word faggot and say it willy nilly in public resulting in a non stop barrage of faggot that will magically change its connotation.
What I am saying, is that since faggot has already taken on a non-homophobic connotation for some people, is to encourage the use of that connotation insofar as the context is clear that it's non-homophobic. Once again, context is everything.
I also want people offended by slurs to try to move past them and realize they shouldn't let words without context have so much power over them. I also realize that this is incredibly difficult.
But this will result in a change in connotation, and in turn a better society.
GroteSmurf
Member
I thought this was about rihanna and a certain rice cake term she used.
cutmeamango
Banned
Soon enough someone will propose to ban the word monkey.
There was a story a few weeks back. Two white middle-aged males opened up a noodle shop called "Round Eyes," I think. I'm assuming it was supposed to be this trendy hipster joint that did slightly Americanized Asian food. This Asian sensitivity group threatened a boycott if they did not alter the name. Not because "Round Eye" was perceived as racist, but because "round eye" elicited the negative connotation of "slanty-eyed" therefore it was hateful and bigoted. The owners apologized and changed the name. This is the world we live in.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
hey, my people evolved from a monkey, that's part of my heritage, it's part of my lifestyle, it's who I am. Using the term monkey as a pegorative is disprespectful to all people who are proud to have evolved from monkies.
cutmeamango
Banned
I may be completely wrong here, but I think I've seen asians using "big eye" and "round eye" as a jocose (derrogatory?
) descriptive term. Which make this doubly funny.Sorry but you look more like an ape to me.
This is the one that gets me. Disabled people prefer the term 'disabled' rather than 'handicapped'.
But literally, disabled means 'not able'. Handicapped just means you have limitations that make things more difficult for you. To me at least, Handicapped is a stronger word, I don't know why the disabled community dislikes it.
Retarded though is like spaz IMO, we just haven't got there yet. You are using a mental condition to describe someone in a negative sense, thereby giving the word itself a negative spin. That should not be encouraged.
But it IS negative. So is lame, and idiot, and imbecile and all the other words on the euphemism treadmill. I agree you should not insult people, but when something is stupid, we call it stupid. Does this insult people of lower than average intelligence?
We did pretty well in removing spastic from our lexicon. It's just been replaced by more words to describe the same thing instead.
What? What the fuck is this? Dumb is used for the same reason "retard" is! They both refer to a type of disability in some form or another, just that dumb has become a staple of our culture that the use of it is acceptable and common, which retard is of recently of. If "retard" isn't innocuous, then neither is dumb.
Both terms refer to a legitimate form of state, in different times obviously. However you might as well start saying that we should stop called Jews "Jews" because people use it derogatory.
hmm.
being retarded is a medical condition though, its not a choice you have. Being stupid is a grey area - we'll start getting into issues of nature Vs nuture etc. But while I see your point, I think there is a line you draw and retarded/spaz are on the wrong side of it.
I don't really see where you're drawing this line. Stupid describes a lack of intelligence. It's no different than mentally retarded except that it's less clearly defined.
Edit: I suppose the lack of clarity might affect things. Because it's defined so poorly, it's used more broadly than retarded.
i made a thread about this once. for me, i feel as bad saying 'haha, thats gay!' as i would saying 'haha, thats retarded!' i've worked in a childrens camp that had 3-4 special needs kids out of the 60~ campers per week, and.. yeah, its not acceptable
Moron, imbecile, idiot and retard are all largely disconnected from their original meanings. You can ban the usage of such words but people will simply transfer their meaning behind the word to the new word. See 'Spaz - Special' for example. Now people use 'special' in an offensive way.
I have no solution to this problem that doesn't involve a thicker skin. You can wait for everyone to wake up and realise that being mean is mean, I suppose.
I have no solution to this problem that doesn't involve a thicker skin. You can wait for everyone to wake up and realise that being mean is mean, I suppose.
frankie_baby
Member
I've always been surprised by america clinging on to using retard and retarded as everyday words to describe people with learning difficulties, they've long been accepted for what they are (insults) in thw uk and we are no worse off for it
Boozeroony
Member
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