Delusibeta
Banned
Unless you mean SF5, they already kinda are porting SF4 to as many consoles as possible.
For SF5, well Sony has given them both a moneyhat and a peoplehat (AFAIK Japan Studio is co-developing), so uh no.
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Ono: Street Fighter 5 trying to attract more young players, have excellent netcode
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Unless you mean SF5, they already kinda are porting SF4 to as many consoles as possible.
For SF5, well Sony has given them both a moneyhat and a peoplehat (AFAIK Japan Studio is co-developing), so uh no.
I've always wanted a fighting/rhythm game crossover but I'm not entirely sure how it would work.
SF got along just fine without that nonsense, forever and a day.
It isn't even as if you needed to know how to Renda to be effective... it was just flavor.
CastorTroy
Member
Capcom had no problem greenlighting it?
...as long as they didn't have to pay for development?
...as long as they didn't have to pay for development?
Dark Ninja
Member
After Ultra on PC I don't trust Capcom with Netcode anymore. Ill wait a couple of days or weeks after release to find out which is the least terrible one PS4 or PC.
NoctisVsStar
Member
zing!
Ultra was never designed to work properly with Steamworks. It's essentially bugged online. If you played during the GFWL days you would know how excellent it was. I doubt that kind of issue would be a problem this time around with it being released day 1 on both PC/PS4. Also, since they're cross-platform they will likely be the same experience.
Lets hope so. A strong singleplayer component to SF5 would be most welcome. I'd love to see a good story mode, a proper training mode and challenges.
entremet
Member
SFV was in the works and greenlit. The funding only helped the game get made quicker.
in smash you have to memorize weights, character sizes, and percentages ON TOP of memorizing your combo string
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
Good netcode you say?
Everything SFIV-related was shit.
Everything SFIV-related was shit.
Indeed.
In before the "one-frame links will ALWAYS exist" brigade misses the point again.
...the point being to remove the impetus for grinding to hit those one-frame links, by making easier links have as much if not more payoff per risk of dropping whatever combo one is attempting.
This allows for the mind games to take center stage, whilst still have some execution requirements.
Dark Ninja
Member
Yeah i played during XBLA days. But the fact that they essentially ignored the horrible netcode after the conversion to steamworks was ridiculous at least they could have made a statement regarding the matter a day or two after the patch, but they pretty much ignored it for about a month. Then their fix patch that came out about three months later essentially did little to fix anything and finally the Ultra patch failed to fix it. Now you have some abysmal PC Netcode that they will likely never get fixed.
Im sure it will be fine this time though but I will be cautious just to be sure
street fighter isn't a dial-a-combo game. how do you design a character to never find a 1-frame link useful? people talk about these sweeping mechanical changes without really explaining the implications.
why would it make sense to give you MORE payoff for doing something easier / less risk?
i agree that basic BnBs shouldn't require them, but capcom decided that you couldn't special cancel chains in sfiv for some godawful reason so you can't just tell people to do short short uppercut.
I don't see anything wrong with game balance in frame data forcing some combos to have 1-frame links. Sometimes it's just required and sometimes combos that were never meant to be used become an integral part of the character. I will say that since everyone plinks anyways that we should get some kind of mechanic that makes 1-framers inherently 2-frames or more. Negative edge in SF4 essentially doubles your input for linking with specials. Maybe that could be applied for normals, too.
I... just explained why, in the very post you quoted... :/
i just hit the quote button. did you not edit it afterwards?
repeat after me:
street fighter is not chess
street fighter is not chess
street fighter is not chess
execution under pressure is an integral part of the game.
say you're at 30% health and your opponent has to punish your mistake:
does he do the really difficult ender and kill me? should i watch for his mistake? do i know where it probably takes place? is he going to bait my reaction to it? does he try for a reset instead? or will he do the easier, guaranteed damage and give me a second chance?
this is what an interesting, multi-layered mind game actually looks like.
Teknopathetic
Member
"...the point being to remove the impetus for grinding to hit those one-frame links, by making easier links have as much if not more payoff per risk of dropping whatever combo one is attempting."
Speaking personally, this is not something very desirable. I can't think of any game, competitive or not, where low-risk/high-reward would actually improve the game on any level.
Speaking personally, this is not something very desirable. I can't think of any game, competitive or not, where low-risk/high-reward would actually improve the game on any level.
Misterinenja
Member
PewDiePie should be the announcer.
You can make the argument that options are affected by the fact that 1-frame links are hard and add a dynamic to them. Dudley doesn't need to 1-frame on his overhead combo but when he hits it from farther out he's forced to because of spacing. This creates the possibility that the player is less likely to use that overhead on you in that situation and both you and your opponent take that into consideration when playing the game.
Speaking to one of your earlier posts, which character were you talking about when you mentioned 3 1-frame links in a BnB?
Not that I wouldn't mind 1-frame links not returning. I just don't think they're pointless, though.
Before 2018 and without being F2P, sure.
GOOD. I'm currently trying to get into USF4 and the game's over reliance on strict link combos is making that reeeeaallly difficult. It also has to do with me being really bad, but still.
Razzorn34
Member
It's definitely something to think about. If you wanted your game to go back to being about mind games between players, and less about people fighting the combo system. SF2 was heavily about the mind games. I don't know who decided that crazy execution needed to be injected into every fighter after that. Not to mention the crazy combo counts in anime fighters. I would welcome a game like that again. Something like a new Bushido Blade.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
One thing SF could do to attract new players in general would be simplify and rationalize inputs on controllers, which is how the vast majority of new players will be playing fighting games.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Jesus I am old. My first thought when hearing about SFV was - "huh, so soon?"
okay... But SF2 was a game with a very archaic combo system compared to modern fighters.
Teknopathetic
Member
"It's definitely something to think about. If you wanted your game to go back to being about mind games between players, and less about people fighting the combo system. "
The game is already about mind games between players. I'm tired of this pretense that SF4 is like Round One, Fight! and someone starts the round already in a combo.
And I'd like to note that SF2 doesn't let you special cancel from chains either.
The game is already about mind games between players. I'm tired of this pretense that SF4 is like Round One, Fight! and someone starts the round already in a combo.
And I'd like to note that SF2 doesn't let you special cancel from chains either.
entremet
Member
Idk about F2P.
SiegfriedFM
Member
Doom and gloom brigade in 3.... 2....
The basic gameplay has already been shown, and apparently works pretty well. I don't see any huge changes besides maybe an Easy Operation mode. Which is irrelevant, since if you need it you're not going to outplay a better player.
I'd very much welcome a GGXrd style story mode and an actual tutorial besides "here's some 20 hit linked combos, enjoy". That would go a long way towards enticing players.
And hopefully a smaller cast. Seriously. I've been playing Street Fighter semi-casually for over 20 years. While I know the basics and most of the stuff of my favourite characters, I can't keep track of every normal, special, super and ultra for 40+ characters. I imagine as a new player being thrown in, it's insurmountable. Don't forget that many of the best fighting games ever made have 10-20 characters. If that means trimming the fat, by all means do. Just like when SF3 turned up with a slim cast, some were turned off and stayed with Alpha to keep playing their favourites. Well, we have USF4 for that. (and yes, SF3 was a flop but look where it lead to eventually)
The basic gameplay has already been shown, and apparently works pretty well. I don't see any huge changes besides maybe an Easy Operation mode. Which is irrelevant, since if you need it you're not going to outplay a better player.
I'd very much welcome a GGXrd style story mode and an actual tutorial besides "here's some 20 hit linked combos, enjoy". That would go a long way towards enticing players.
And hopefully a smaller cast. Seriously. I've been playing Street Fighter semi-casually for over 20 years. While I know the basics and most of the stuff of my favourite characters, I can't keep track of every normal, special, super and ultra for 40+ characters. I imagine as a new player being thrown in, it's insurmountable. Don't forget that many of the best fighting games ever made have 10-20 characters. If that means trimming the fat, by all means do. Just like when SF3 turned up with a slim cast, some were turned off and stayed with Alpha to keep playing their favourites. Well, we have USF4 for that. (and yes, SF3 was a flop but look where it lead to eventually)
there are actually lots of characters need 1f links to do basic stuff like combo into knockdown in sfiv
rose (c.lk -> c.lk, c.lk -> c.mp)
makoto (s.lp -> s.mp, s.mp -> s.mp, s.hp HC s.mp)
rufus (s.lk -> s.hp)
ryu (any button into sweep)
balrog (s.jab -> sweep)
vega (c.lp -> c.mp)
etc
edit: also, btw, execution has never been easier than in sfiv. go try doing something simple like crouch short xx uppercut in ST and get back at me
rose (c.lk -> c.lk, c.lk -> c.mp)
makoto (s.lp -> s.mp, s.mp -> s.mp, s.hp HC s.mp)
rufus (s.lk -> s.hp)
ryu (any button into sweep)
balrog (s.jab -> sweep)
vega (c.lp -> c.mp)
etc
edit: also, btw, execution has never been easier than in sfiv. go try doing something simple like crouch short xx uppercut in ST and get back at me
SpiceMelange
Member
For one frame links to not exist you would have to be very careful with how you tweak startup frames and hitstun.. too much hitstun so that every link is like at minimum +3-4 and you risk exposing your game to unforeseen degenerate loops/infinites (and even then 1 frame links could exist with meaties and such), too little startup could fuck up the balance of weak medium strong and the block throw normal triangle
If you know links, you win automatically.
I just learned Ibuki Vortex stuff, so obviously I'm going to go win EVO. I can land 1 frame links and once I knock you down, I win. Game is SO EASY.
Watch out, Daigo!
I didn't know those are 1 frame links (aside from Rufus), because they're easy.
But, given that they are, shouldn't they be considering the advantage they give you? Shouldn't something so advantageous be difficult to do? lol
And nobody ever said that - least of all me.
Do you honestly believe that SF2 requires no execution?
Free to play SF5.
Start with the SFII roster, buy everyone else using Gems you earn by fighting more and more! (or use real money!!!)
Imru al-Qays
Banned
It's a spectrum. No one's saying it should only be about mind games, but there's a good case to be made that at the moment SF overemphasizes execution.
Ninja Scooter
Member
You know who will attract the kids?
Yeah there is that.
vega's is no longer 1 frame its a 2 frame link it was changed in USF4
Teknopathetic
Member
"And nobody ever said that - least of all me.
Do you honestly believe that SF2 requires no execution?"
That's...exactly what you're saying in what I quoted. Payoff (Reward) is relative. If you want easy combos to have as much payoff or more as a more challenging combo, then you want the reward to be high for easier combos. Looking at SF2, the payoff for hitting Deejay's sobat is a good bit of damage. The payoff for hitting Deejay's ToD is winning a round immediately.
Do you honestly believe that SF2 requires no execution?"
That's...exactly what you're saying in what I quoted. Payoff (Reward) is relative. If you want easy combos to have as much payoff or more as a more challenging combo, then you want the reward to be high for easier combos. Looking at SF2, the payoff for hitting Deejay's sobat is a good bit of damage. The payoff for hitting Deejay's ToD is winning a round immediately.
my bad
SatelliteOfLove
Member
lol
This was said of 4 and we got more links than an Etrian Odyssey III end game party.
That said, rock solid netcode and smart promotion of tournaments (online tournament functionality?!?!) is much better way than player bribery in this day and age.