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[Amir0x]

fuck it I am replaying the OG Tomb raider games. Been ages since I did a replay through of the series and I am IN

 

[danwarb]

OG TR controls weren't bad. You had more precise and consistant control than with the modern equivalent. 3D platformers are dead.

 

[grandwizard]

A lot of people say they like Tomb Raider 2013 because they don't have to think as much (at all) to play it. They don't want to "get stuck". I remember one guy in the TR 2013 thread when it came out got really upset because after hours of shoot-bang the game finally asked him to figure out a really really easy puzzle (opening the windows in the monastery to blow a bell to destroy wooden support columns). I've seen people say they've basically gotten older and don't want to invest that much effort into playing games anymore. They want to relax and have the game fed to them. But I've gotten older and I still want my games to challenge me. I want to actually play a game. If I don't want to play a game I can watch a movie. It's fine for these kinds of games to exist for the people that want them, but I feel like people that still want to be challenged are getting left out to dry as old franchises shift towards becoming essentially the videogame equivalent of summer blockbuster popcorn flicks.

Man that is sad. That entire game did nothing but hold your hand and lead you through pretty environments and combat encounters. And the second there is even the smallest amount of resistance for player engagement it leads to disappointment. I'm with you, I don't know what happened to games that people now want passive experiences instead of active and engaged ones. There is nothing in the entire TR2013 game that should cause any frustration, but we've been babied so long by developers that people now see any 'wall' where they have to stop and use their brain as a problem area with the product. It's evident when you watch games media playing games on streams or press events and see their overall enthusiasm for a game plummet when they run up against such a wall, and the game developers have made note of it and adjusted design accordingly. Just a sad situation all around.

 

[Mman235]

I agree. It's honestly my least favourite PS1 TR largely because of how frustrating the save system was. There's a lot I like about TR3 but the save system kills it for me.

That's why I'd recommend the PC version of TR3 much more than the PS1 one.

 

[Y2Kev]

I remember TR3 getting kinda shitty reviews in GamePro and I was like WOW wtf

instead of :WOW face it was like :GOOD face

 

[R-User!]

Don't know if the topic starter is still paying attention at this point. But I believe the first Tomb Raider is worth it. It may not have the best level design or the most fluid controls of the series. But it is certainly the most interesting. There is a lot of mystery and isolation in the original. It inspires your imagination. It's rare that games leave you alone for so much time and give you just enough to look at and hear to inspire your imagination. The first few levels are difficult to get into. But there are a few really good levels like Midas's Palace and Colosseum that inspire your imagination as well as give you some solid gameplay.

Music is really good for the time too.

It's the Super Metroid of Tomb Raiders minus a whole bunch of enemies to shoot. The isolation and atmosphere of both games, are to me, the same.

I actually decided to try to play my original copy of TR1 on my HD TV, and I was going to introduce my 11 year old to the franchise and let him play it for me so that he could experience the Awesome (minus the "press A for Awesome") for the first time, and so that I could relive the experience through him a bit, but it was freezing being played through a PS3 slim when trying to load Lara's Home. I tried putting it in through my PS2, and it worked; but then I said "forget this graphical garbage I'm looking at", and decided to bring down the Trinitron SD TV from 2000 (I think) to allow he and I to experience the jaggies in their true and fully intended glory!

I can't wait to hook it up later tonight and play some of Lara's Home for quality assurance purposes of course... Test the memory card an all that...

 

[Jazzkokehead]

That's why I'd recommend the PC version of TR3 much more than the PS1 one.

Honestly, people who finished TR3 on PS1 deserve some sort of lifetime achievement award. I played it on PC with the ability to save anywhere, and I still had a decent amount of trouble with it.

 

[gelf]

Honestly, people who finished TR3 on PS1 deserve some sort of lifetime achievement award. I played it on PC with the ability to save anywhere, and I still had a decent amount of trouble with it.

I finished it on PS1. It was damn hard but it was at a time when I would feel obliged to finish every game I had access to no matter how long it took. I didn't even like it that much, it was my brothers copy and I'm pretty sure he only got it to watch me play it.

Conversely my fave in the series is TR1 and I have never actually finished it as I only played it on loan from a friend and never bothered to buy myself a copy as I had other games I wanted more at the time. It is in my Steam backlog now though.

 

[Sub_Level]

Tomb Raider 3 scares me.

Like no, I don't want to play that shit. Even 2 is proving to be a mountain to climb.

 

[R-User!]

Honestly, people who finished TR3 on PS1 deserve some sort of lifetime achievement award. I played it on PC with the ability to save anywhere, and I still had a decent amount of trouble with it.

Gimme Dat Award!

 

[Y2Kev]

I DID IT! I beat the opera house! What a beast of a level. So long, and I had absolutely no health for the last few sections so I died over and over on the room in the basement with the two bad guys with guns.

Why was I even in an opera house again? lol

 

[aliensandwich]

The old TR games were WAY too dark on the Ps1.

 

[Y2Kev]

flares yo

 

[yesrushdt]

A lot of people say they like Tomb Raider 2013 because they don't have to think as much (at all) to play it. They don't want to "get stuck". I remember one guy in the TR 2013 thread when it came out got really upset because after hours of shoot-bang the game finally asked him to figure out a really really easy puzzle (opening the windows in the monastery to blow a bell to destroy wooden support columns). I've seen people say they've basically gotten older and don't want to invest that much effort into playing games anymore. They want to relax and have the game fed to them. But I've gotten older and I still want my games to challenge me. I want to actually play a game. If I don't want to play a game I can watch a movie. It's fine for these kinds of games to exist for the people that want them, but I feel like people that still want to be challenged are getting left out to dry as old franchises shift towards becoming essentially the videogame equivalent of summer blockbuster popcorn flicks.

Man that is sad. That entire game did nothing but hold your hand and lead you through pretty environments and combat encounters. And the second there is even the smallest amount of resistance for player engagement it leads to disappointment. I'm with you, I don't know what happened to games that people now want passive experiences instead of active and engaged ones. There is nothing in the entire TR2013 game that should cause any frustration, but we've been babied so long by developers that people now see any 'wall' where they have to stop and use their brain as a problem area with the product. It's evident when you watch games media playing games on streams or press events and see their overall enthusiasm for a game plummet when they run up against such a wall, and the game developers have made note of it and adjusted design accordingly. Just a sad situation all around.

Very well put you two. It's really sad what the games industry has become. Recent games (like Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze) get crapped on by sites like Gamespot for being too difficult. Developers like Shinji Mikami (The Evil Within) make a point to mention that they don't want the player to get stuck in their games. Developers and video game web sites want it known that there's only "light" puzzle solving in the game they're talking about. Almost like they're afraid game sales will be low if a player finds out that it's challenging or that they actually have to use their brain.

There really needs to be a compromise that caters to both the hardcore gamers and the casual. Create player tailoring options that allow people to get rid of certain or all aspects of the hand holding. Their choice to use these options or not.

One action/adventure game that I haven't played in ages is Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine (due to it being incompatible with Windows 7). Well, I found a patch for it a few days ago that allows me to finally play it on Windows 7. While the game is inferior to the classic Tomb Raider games in a number of areas like combat/movement controls and whatnot, it's still very refreshing to play a game that has very little hand holding with no button prompts, mission objectives or game long forced tutorials. You're on your own with the exception of some camera clues and brief spoken word hints by Indy.

 

[R-User!]

The old TR games were WAY too dark on the Ps1.

Or you could turn up your brightness up a tad. Not saying they're dark, but in TR2,3,4?.... Flares yo.

 

[Jazzkokehead]

Gimme Dat Award!

No worries, I got you.

 

[yesrushdt]

I DID IT! I beat the opera house! What a beast of a level. So long, and I had absolutely no health for the last few sections so I died over and over on the room in the basement with the two bad guys with guns.

Well done. So many of the levels are quite long, especially on your first playthrough. Just in case you missed my initial post in this thread, here is a very nice patch for the PC versions of TR2-4 allowing you to play in HD resolutions without stretching the game out (as seen below).

 

[FairFriend]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=...1Lliu&feature=player_detailpage&v=aYuCgJ4kF-g
I didn't know that there were so many fan-made maps. :-/

You may want to check this site out. You'll thank me later

http://www.trle.net/

 

[Amir0x]

god fuck I can't get my goddamn controller to work with Tomb Raider 2 PC, what is wrong with this damn thing.

 

[Hindle]

Definatly.

Afterwards, make sure you play a modern action adventure game just to see how shit game design has become in this day and age.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Nothing on PS1 is worth checking. Heck nothing 3D pre-Dreamcast in that generation is worth checking out

Sorry, but you are incorrect. Go straight to jail. Do not pass go, do not collect £/$200.

 

[Y2Kev]

Well done. So many of the levels are quite long, especially on your first playthrough. Just in case you missed my initial post in this thread, here is a very nice patch for the PC versions of TR2-4 allowing you to play in HD resolutions without stretching the game out (as seen below).

Oh no, I'm playing on PS1. My screen is warping, my frames are dropping, and I can count the pixels. Like a MANNNN

 

[RagnarokX]

Badassgamez is streaming TR2 no medpack/no saves/all secrets: http://www.twitch.tv/badassgamez

He made it to the end of the Opera House but got killed by a dog, lol. Starting attempt 2 of the day.

I remember TR3 getting kinda shitty reviews in GamePro and I was like WOW wtf

instead of :WOW face it was like :GOOD face

Crazy enough George Wood, the guy with the public access show in the 90s that said in his TR2 review should have a story about Lara fighting breast cancer, got it right in his TR3 review: http://youtu.be/VbZV6KZnIRY?t=48m52s

Tomb Raider 3 scares me.

Like no, I don't want to play that shit. Even 2 is proving to be a mountain to climb.

But TR3 is awesome. Just play the PC version where you have infinite saves. The Playstation version was ridiculous with the save crystals. TR3 has some amazing levels. I mean you just have to go through the India levels, South Pacific Island levels, Aldwych, and the Antarctica levels. TR3 is definitely the closest the game got to being a survival horror, though.

I DID IT! I beat the opera house! What a beast of a level. So long, and I had absolutely no health for the last few sections so I died over and over on the room in the basement with the two bad guys with guns.

Why was I even in an opera house again? lol

Marco Bartoli's father Gianni Bartoli, was a famous performer who owned the Opera House. Gianni founded the cult that his son runs and was obsessed with China and the dagger of Xian. The Maria Doria was the ship he died on when a monk suicide bombed it to prevent the Seraph he stole from being used for evil. It's pretty well set up with posters on the walls for Gianni Bartoli's show and the Chinese sets on the stage. It's essentially the base of operations for the cult.

 

[Amir0x]

Oh no, I'm playing on PS1. My screen is warping, my frames are dropping, and I can count the pixels. Like a MANNNN

pfft i'll suffer a lot for my baby Tomb Raider but not those eye cutting shimmering horrors they call visuals. i'll smooth that shit out on PC and be glad of it

 

[Nimby]

Call me a freak or whatever, but I love dem PS1 frame drops, and pixels, and fogs.

 

[gelf]

I find the difference in the save systems between consoles and PCs in these games interesting. TR2 gives you unlimited save anywhere in either version proving it was unlikely to be because of a technical issue, but in 1 and 3 the consoles went the save crystal route. Its like there was design choice to make the console version harder.

It would be comparable to say if Resident Evil ditched Ink Ribbons in its PC port. It changes the game quite a lot.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Played it for the first time today on Vita, aged remarkably well. Quite playable, well designed game.

Did the Vita mapping make the controls significantly better?

 

[Peff]

I find the difference in the save systems between consoles and PCs in these games interesting. TR2 gives you unlimited save anywhere in either version proving it was unlikely to be because of a technical issue, but in 1 and 3 the consoles went the save crystal route. Its like there was design choice to make the console version harder.

It would be comparable to say if Resident Evil ditched Ink Ribbons in its PC port. It changes the game quite a lot.

That's exactly what it was, ironically. The fixed crystals in 1 were fairly far apart and their placement is a bit weird at times, forcing you to repeat long but easier segments if you die. But when Core implemented save anywhere for TR2 people complained that it made the game too easy (imagine that!), so they settled for a compromise between both ideas.

Only the crystals in TR3 are crazy scarce and tough to find, lol. I imagine a lot of people learned the level skip code by heart.

 

[Amir0x]

But when Core implemented save anywhere for TR2 people complained that it made the game too easy (imagine that!),

well there must still be some of us left who complain about that, the "will it be too easy?" discussion dominated a lot of the Dark Souls topics


maybe there's still some hope for this industry, Peff? Maybe...

 

[Curufinwe]

Honestly, people who finished TR3 on PS1 deserve some sort of lifetime achievement award. I played it on PC with the ability to save anywhere, and I still had a decent amount of trouble with it.

It wasn't so bad. Being able to collect save crystals and choose when to use them made things easier than TR1.

I did get stuck in Aldwych for weeks, though. I couldn't find where to use a coin.

 

[RagnarokX]

ROFL! Badassgamez was playing Venice and was about to destroy the mines but he was too close to the wall when he tried to jump out of the boat and Lara jumped back into the boat and blew up.

 

[Y2Kev]

Personally I am partial to placed save points in the environment. It makes me feel like the level is better paced. But they are pretty brutal in the first tomb raider. Tr2 is a bit abusable because you can save after every jump or so.

I think I'm gonna try angel of darkness again but I only have it on ps2. Without quick save it's really very difficult. Saving on ps2 takes forever.

Also I don't think I have a ps2 around to play it.

 

[Peff]

well there must still be some of us left who complain about that, the "will it be too easy?" discussion dominated a lot of the Dark Souls topics


maybe there's still some hope for this industry, Peff? Maybe...

It IS kind of puzzling that there has been no spiritual sequel kickstarter for this franchise, but then the whole "TANK CONTROLZZ" thing has been pretty strong this past decade, so maybe people think there's no demand. At this point I'd be happy with an Anniversary-level game, to be honest, neutered as it was, but even that is no small effort.

Still, we are getting that Guardina of Light sequel in a couple of months I think? Here's hoping that it'll live up to the original.

 

[Amir0x]

It IS kind of puzzling that there has been no spiritual sequel kickstarter for this franchise, but then the whole "TANK CONTROLZZ" thing has been pretty strong this past decade, so maybe people think there's no demand. At this point I'd be happy with an Anniversary-level game, to be honest, neutered as it was, but even that is no small effort.

Still, we are getting that Guardina of Light sequel in a couple of months I think? Here's hoping that it'll live up to the original.

maybe we should do it ourselves

who has videogame programming experience? and music...and um... do we know any CORE members who would be down so we could be all "original developers of Tomb Raider" are working on it?

I'll, uh, be the moral support

 

[Y2Kev]

I mentioned the same earlier. Obviously anniversary doesn't have the precision 3d platforming of the classics but it does have plenty of puzzles. And it does require a bit of thinking. Which 2013 does not.

 

[Manu]

It's cliche at this point but the only modern game that brings me back to those feelings from the original TR (it certainly isn't modern TR) is Demon's and Dark Souls. There is something about how the environments are constructed in those games where they feel like a real place, full of dangers and secrets that make you carefully tread through them that brings me back to the original TR series.

Whoa.

When Tomb Raider 2013 was on PS+ I found it so condescendingly easy I decided to revisit the old PS1 TR games. I ended up beating TR2 (which I never did back in the day). It was hard as hell but it felt so good to be done with it. And actually that's what encouraged me to try going back to Demon's Souls, which I played one year before and didn't like. I ended up playing and beating the three Souls games and loving all of them. All because TR2013 left me feeling so empty.

So, in a way... thank you Tomb Raider 2013?

 

[Amir0x]

I really would be down for it, I want it so bad. So there's at least five or six of us in this topic. I'm betting there is a large contingent of Tomb Raider fans out there who would perk up at the idea. COME ON SOMEONE KICKSTARTER THIS


The language describing the "return to the roots of the genre" would have to be gentle so as not to scare away the unfortunate peeps who actually like that TR2013 tripe

 

[Y2Kev]

The extra levels of tomb raider gold were developed by like 3 people. I would 200% take a game that looked like the originals with new music and story if it meant we got a reasonably budgeted game. I wonder if the old core team still is close.

 

[Novum_Veritas]

I really would be down for it, I want it so bad. So there's at least five or six of us in this topic. I'm betting there is a large contingent of Tomb Raider fans out there who would perk up at the idea. COME ON SOMEONE KICKSTARTER THIS


The language describing the "return to the roots of the genre" would have to be gentle so as not to scare away the unfortunate peeps who actually like that TR2013 tripe

I would be in for an old school Tomb Raider any day, Anniversary was to easy, the game lacked this typical TR atmosphere, the isolation part was totally erased because of better graphics and the whole QTE stuff.

 

[Amir0x]

The extra levels of tomb raider gold were developed by like 3 people. I would 200% take a game that looked like the originals with new music and story if it meant we got a reasonably budgeted game. I wonder if the old core team still is close.

i would too with the qualifier I'd like it to be very very clean, no shimmering shit and the lighting system should be far more advanced, because I think that's one of the things that modern developments can improve for the series.

 

[Y2Kev]

Yes that would be expected. Not developed to ps1 spec. Would have to be at least modern pc in terms of res etc.

 

[Amir0x]

alright now to e-mail all the members of old CORE and find out who is free





*cries*

 

[sublimit]

Honestly, people who finished TR3 on PS1 deserve some sort of lifetime achievement award. I played it on PC with the ability to save anywhere, and I still had a decent amount of trouble with it.

I finished it when it first came out on PS1 and completely blind!After TR2 my hype and excitement was so big for TR3 that i just couldn't stop playing it.I did many all-nighters trying to figure stuff out and replaying sections since i didn't have enough saves.
I missed tons of stuff though so for subsequent playthroughs i used the cheat that gave you 50 extra saves or something.It was still challenging but not as painfully hard as the first time i played it and i could explore the game more freely.

One year ago i started a new playthough of TR3 on PS1 using no cheats at all and i made it until High Security Compound relatively easily but then i got sidetracked by new games and didn't continue it.But i will definitely get back to it sooner rather than later.

 

[Amir0x]

The amazing thing about TR3 is that the levels are so well designed that even though I died a lot and it was very hard, I never felt discouraged. I just kept wanting to try and overcome the obstacle; the feeling of reward at the end from doing it was not comparable to games that just hand you the ending on a silver platter.

 

[Gherid__lacksGPS]

Loving this thread homies. So nice that people see through the bullshit and appreciate proper design and a design language which communicates to the player. Telling the story through gameplay and proper progression. Almost everything is set piece and flimic, the craft of level design and gameplay driven story development has really taken a blow.

Think I'll pull some OG TR out of the collection, dust em off and have a jam session. Been wanting to for a long time.

 

[Accoun]

ROFL! Badassgamez was playing Venice and was about to destroy the mines but he was too close to the wall when he tried to jump out of the boat and Lara jumped back into the boat and blew up.

Saw it, was hillarious. Looks like he almost did it the second time, but managed to stop the boat end retry.

 

[SpookyFries]

Tomb Raider 1 is still one of the creepiest games I have ever played

Spoiler

Dat Atlantis level

 

[Peff]

So the last decade comment left me thinking and I went to look at TR Legend's reviews:

The rest of the controls have been improved, though - a godsend considering the frustrating exactitude required for movement and jumps in previous entries. The motion is more fluid this time around and Lara has a few extra moves added to her resume like making diagonal leaps and utilizing a magnetic grappling hook to pull things from afar or swing across gaps. Overall, the new physics and restructured move set lead to some pretty fun and interesting situations that just weren't possible before.

Fans of the series' early games will be overjoyed to hear that Legend brings much of the action back into the ancient tombs and tropical jungles for some good old-fashioned platforming. Gone are the days of meticulously lining up each and every one of your jumps, as you can now fluidly leap from ledge to pole to rope with the grace of a gymnast. Lara can adjust in mid-air, allowing her to grab onto ledges with one hand and save herself with the push of a button. The platforming is similar to that seen most recently in Prince of Persia, which, naturally, borrowed heavily from the Tomb Raider games. However, you won't be spending all of your time just jumping and swinging around, as the game features some diabolical environmental puzzles.

The controls are a lot more fluid and responsive than they have been in previous Tomb Raider games, which makes Lara movements feel much more natural than before. The controls are precise, but not punishingly so. You often only have to jump in the general direction of the next platform and the game will compensate by automatically connecting Lara to the intended surface. Once you get the hang of it you can effortlessly overcome even the most imposing obstacles without difficulty. It's also always abundantly clear which ledges you can hang on or jump between, so the only challenge is positioning the camera so you can see where you're trying to go, which can be frustrating.

The core evolution to the once diminished series is how Lara controls. Moving Lara around environments is not an issue any longer. She is not tied to an invisible grid. There are no rigid means to make short jumps and or three-step rules to make a long jump. With the exception of gravity, she's free

1UP
For the first time ever, Lara Croft controls fluidly -- her world isn't divided into little squares, and she can perform complex series of acrobatic maneuvers without a pause (and often has to, later in the game).

The more things change... haha.

 

[Amir0x]

Tomb Raider 1 is still one of the creepiest games I have ever played

Spoiler

Dat Atlantis level

I can attest to it. It's so creepy it's actually physically dangerous... to some people.

The controls are a lot more fluid and responsive than they have been in previous Tomb Raider games, which makes Lara movements feel much more natural than before. The controls are precise, but not punishingly so. You often only have to jump in the general direction of the next platform and the game will compensate by automatically connecting Lara to the intended surface. Once you get the hang of it you can effortlessly overcome even the most imposing obstacles without difficulty. It's also always abundantly clear which ledges you can hang on or jump between, so the only challenge is positioning the camera so you can see where you're trying to go, which can be frustrating.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH *head explodes*

 

[Nimby]

I would kill for another grid-based TR.

Something like this custom-level but with more polygons. God why do I dream?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0juiRi_yv-k