• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

|OT| |OT| Ray-Traced Games Discussion

UnNamed

18+ Member, acts like 12 year old console warrior
Dec 21, 2006
1,858
3,037
1,525
Somewhere in Bananaland
The best RTX implementation has to be with GI, reflections and shadows all together, otherwise is pointless. Since almost all games with RTX do only one of this three, I say Quake 2.
 

VFXVeteran

Industry Professional (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
4,953
10,944
780
The best RTX implementation has to be with GI, reflections and shadows all together, otherwise is pointless. Since almost all games with RTX do only one of this three, I say Quake 2.

Control, Metro and Crysis all use the most computensive RT - GI/AO. GI/AO has more of an impact on the overall scene than any other RT feature. And Quake 2 may use them all but it doesn't look better than the modern games.

I have a feeling that Cyberpunk 2077 will NOT use GI (2nd bounce lighting). But that's ok if it has area lights like in Metro's DLC. There are so many arbitrarily shaped lights. AO is going to be in worldspace so we won't be seeing "halos" around objects and it will be accurate down to small objects. Shadows and reflections should be doable too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pawel86ck

Lethal01

Member
Jun 15, 2019
2,061
3,330
545
Miles and R&C aren't using RT for shadows/AO. And where is the link for DS using it for shadows/AO?

You've literally had this conversation about Dark souls already. If you want the link search for it, it's been confirmed for ages.
And yes, they confirmed it Spiderman will have Ray-traced ambient shadows on the playstation blog.

Anyway I was gonna be more strict with my answer but your opening post simply asked for the best looking games with ray tracing so I gave the simple answer..

Oh, you made a mistake btw, I never said Ratchet and Clank had ray-traced shadows, I wasn't talking about my post.
 
Last edited:

VFXVeteran

Industry Professional (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
4,953
10,944
780
Another RT game that looks pretty damn good! First DXR game using the Unreal Engine. I just picked this one up today. Indie developers are going crazy with using it.

* RT reflections
* RT shadows
* RT translucent reflections

 
Last edited:

VFXVeteran

Industry Professional (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
4,953
10,944
780
You've literally had this conversation about Dark souls already. If you want the link search for it, it's been confirmed for ages.
And yes, they confirmed it Spiderman will have Ray-traced ambient shadows on the playstation blog.

Well, I invite discussion when it's released.
 

VFXVeteran

Industry Professional (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
4,953
10,944
780
Mod of War Mod of War - could you change the thread title to "|OT| Ray-Traced Games Discussion". It doesn't need to have a "combative" title.

Thanks.
 

Lethal01

Member
Jun 15, 2019
2,061
3,330
545
Well, I invite discussion when it's released.

Oh I never claimed it one of the best games with ray tracing, just stating that it was confirmed to have more than just reflections.

I'll give it a shot eventually though.
 

ripeavocado

Member
Jul 26, 2020
546
793
325
The fact that we have to showcase RT in games using Crysis Remastered that barely shows any improvement is very telling.

RT cores are weak and that's why most games using them just for reflections.

We are not going to see proper raytraced lighting this generation, other maybe hybrid solutions like the one used by Unreal Engine 5 or this one, SEUS PTGI a Minecraft mod that looks better than the official path traced version of the game.





wait forgot about Quake 2 RTX




if you need a comparison video to see the results of RTX applied to a game then is almost pointless.

Unfortunately we don't have the hardware for a proper RTX implementation except for simpler games like Quake 2 or Minecraft
 
Last edited:

DJT123

Member
Aug 27, 2020
960
1,513
400
South Africa
That would mean CyberPunk looks suck without RT enabled. Quite unlikely.
It should definitely be top-tier AAA in looks without RT. Hopefully RT does offer a really nice jump though, for technologies sake, not that my wallet would appreciate it, lol.
 

VFXVeteran

Industry Professional (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
4,953
10,944
780
The fact that we have to showcase RT in games using Crysis Remastered that barely shows any improvement is very telling.

RT cores are weak and that's why most games using them just for reflections.

We are not going to see proper raytraced lighting this generation, other maybe hybrid solutions like the one used by Unreal Engine 5 or this one, SEUS PTGI a Minecraft mod that looks better than the official path traced version of the game.





wait forgot about Quake 2 RTX




if you need a comparison video to see the results of RTX applied to a game then is almost pointless.

Unfortunately we don't have the hardware for a proper RTX implementation except for simpler games like Quake 2 or Minecraft

I don't know what you are trying to prove here. Crysis does show a big difference than conventional probe based GI. Anne the reflections are done very well. They results are there.

Path tracing isn't the same as Ray tracing. While Minecraft and Quake uses the technique for the entire rendering pipeline, they don't look modern at all.
 
Last edited:

VFXVeteran

Industry Professional (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
4,953
10,944
780
Is SVOGI ray tracing?

Yes.


Ray-traced GI is going to be the most expensive technique this generation. Period. No other RT technique will be more expensive. That's because it takes up most of the screen area in a given frame. You could potentially have reflections be very expensive but it would have to take up a large portion of the screen. Some games like Ghostrunner and Cyberpunk may benefit more with reflections than GI (like Crysis) because of their environments.
 
Last edited:

ripeavocado

Member
Jul 26, 2020
546
793
325
I don't know what you are trying to prove here. Crysis is does show a big difference than conventional probe based GI. Anne the reflections are done very well. They results are there.

Path tracing isn't the same as Ray tracing. While Minecraft and Quake uses the technique for the entire rendering pipeline, they don't look modern at all.

I know what path tracing is and it's still a ray tracing algorithm.

Crysis doesn't show any big difference, yes it's nice to have that but it's very rough and barely noticeable by the common user.

if that's the best we have then let's forget about RT for some years.

Luckily we are going to see something better but we can't expect miracles by weak hardware.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lukilladog

Mister Wolf

Member
Sep 21, 2014
6,386
7,454
710
Is SVOGI ray tracing?

Yes but when people say real time raytracing, what Nvidia brought to gaming they are more or less referring to triangle raytracing. SVOGI has been out for years and no one was ever lauding it as real-time raytracing not even Crytek or Nvidia.
 
Last edited:

VFXVeteran

Industry Professional (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
4,953
10,944
780
Yes but when people say real time raytracing, what Nvidia brought to gaming they are more or less referring to triangle raytracing. SVOGI has been out for years and no one was ever lauding it as real-time raytracing not even Crytek or Nvidia.

That's because it couldn't run well in software. And, to my knowledge, only TTC implemented it in a game. The solution is very good. I'd like to see if Unreal's Lumine does something similar. I believe Crytek uses the GPUs of the 20x-30x with Vulkan to accelerate the intersection tests. Also, RT isn't limited to triangle intersection tests. You can trace rays against planes as well. In fact, it's more efficient than triangles if you can get the results you need.
 
Last edited:

ripeavocado

Member
Jul 26, 2020
546
793
325
Yes but when people say real time raytracing, what Nvidia brought to gaming they are more or less referring to triangle raytracing. SVOGI has been out for years and no one was ever lauding it as real-time raytracing not even Crytek or Nvidia.

The algorithm has been refined during the years a couple of games used it afaik (KC: Deliverance and the unreleased Fable Legends)

I am sure that UE5 uses a variation of it.

SVOGI was too demanding for old gen consoles, this is why almost nobody implemented it.

 

Mister Wolf

Member
Sep 21, 2014
6,386
7,454
710
That's because it couldn't run well in software. And, to my knowledge, only TTC implemented it in a game. The solution is very good. I'd like to see if Unreal's Lumine does something similar. I believe Crytek uses the GPUs of the 20x-30x with Vulkan to accelerate the intersection tests. Also, RT isn't limited to triangle intersection tests. You can trace rays against planes as well. In fact, it's more efficient than triangles if you can get the results you need.

Kingdom Come Deliverence used SVOGI on PC and they were never calling it raytracing. Unreal's documentation on their website separates and makes a distinction between VXGI and RTGI.
 

Mister Wolf

Member
Sep 21, 2014
6,386
7,454
710
The algorithm has been refined during the years a couple of games used it afaik (KC: Deliverance and the unreleased Fable Legends)

I am sure that UE5 uses a variation of it.

SVOGI was too demanding for old gen consoles, this is why almost nobody implemented it.


I'm aware of its demand. My thing is they never promoted it as real time raytracing in the games that used it. Neither Crytek, Nvidia, or the man that created Voxel GI. Why?
 

VFXVeteran

Industry Professional (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
4,953
10,944
780
Kingdom Come Deliverence used SVOGI on PC and they were never calling it raytracing. Unreal's documentation on their website separates and makes a distinction between VXGI and RTGI.

Oh, I forgot about SVOGI on KC. Well, the technique itself does have to test for ray intersection.
Alex from digital foundry did extensive comparison. Lighting in crysis 1 without SVOGI is just flat.


Right at the beginning Alex talks about SVOGI.




He probably doesn't own the game. Or hates Crysis for whatever reason.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: pawel86ck
May 8, 2020
3,835
9,303
640
Nominating, and in the same sentence awarding a new King (until a new Sony exclusive dethrones it): Open world, 4k, large draw distances, highly dynamic world, insane rendering pipeline considering the draw calls on geometry at the swinging speeds of the character, instant fast travel, no loading within the game.... 4 secs cold boot, 1.32 sec menu..... etc.... all of that with Top notch Ray-Tracing.







More gif's available on demand. Just ring that bell notification, and remember to like, subscribe and all that good stuff.
 
Last edited:

VFXVeteran

Industry Professional (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
4,953
10,944
780
As we can see now about Watch Dogs and Spiderman MM. RT is severely lacking in the consoles. The material shaders that are evaulated during a bounce is turned off on consoles (among many other things: draw distance, polygon geometry, transparent polygons like smoke, etc).. this severely detracts from the quality of the pixel. I told you guys before that the quality of a pixel is very important to the overall fidelity of a game. Art is definitely a factor in the quality of a pixel, but that doesn't lend 1:1 on the tech of the game engine or represent the GPU capability of the console.

This generation will see the PC have a remarked leap over the consoles in RT and I don't see that gap closing at all during this entire generation. Like I suspected early on, RT was an after thought after so much demand for RTX and AMD admittedly not wanting to even pursue RT so soon before the next-gen consoles announced.


Btw, WD Legion leads the way in RT reflections. There are other games like Crysis Remake and Control that use even better RT techniques. Knowing what we know now, a PS5 exclusive will never show superior RT in a game this entire generation. We'll have to wait for a PS6 at the least to even match what we have today on PCs - and then we won't even know at what quality setting since the PC is robust in it's settings.
 
Last edited: