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[Anne]

Okay so you got someone playing ana...tell me an ideal composition that does not involve lucio

Depending on map/strat there are reasons to run Ana/Zen and Ana/Mercy. Numbani this happens more often than it should since Lucio isn't really that valuable on first point. Ana/Sym is also a first point defense thing if the point doesn't really require Lucio.

Lucio is broke, but after all the nerfs he's not as broke really, just hard to counterplay one without having one. On certain maps it's less of an issue.

Meanwhile outside of like Zarya/Winston, you have to run Rein. Hell, Rein/Zarya is a better dive comp on most maps these days anyways.

 

[pizzacat]

Playing with you guys last night made me realize I suck at aiming

Any tips Anne._.

 

[Jellie]

Team wipes rarely happen at the higher levels. They did way back in the day, but ever since ult charging got adjusted a long time ago that shit does not happen.

This is absolutely true given what you're saying, which is exhange and ult for an ult. No way in hell youre killing 4-6 heros without stacking ults

Especially not when they got a shield generator up

Well it would be unfair if you could just destroy it easily. Having to resort to an ult seems balanced. Pulse bomb charges fast so would be a good example of trading in your favour.

Though I think it's stupid how teleport has finite usage but shield generator doesn't.

 

[BumperLips]

So Sombra can hack turrets and such right? But does it only disable it? Or makes it fight for you for a short period of time? And could you hack a shield gen for a short time to give the buff to your team?

If not... whyyyyyyy

 

[adamy]

A team last night in the APEX league 6-person suicide dived the enemy's Shield Generator in order to disable it for their next push- worked out really well for them.

Okay? I don't doubt this. my point is that you can't rely on a single ult to team wipe. which should absolutely be the case for any decent team.

 

[RecRoulette]

Getting through my placement matches finally, solo queue as always. Ran into a party that had 3 platinum players and one guy unranked, lol. That's fun.

 

[adamy]

Depending on map/strat there are reasons to run Ana/Zen and Ana/Mercy. Numbani this happens more often than it should since Lucio isn't really that valuable on first point. Ana/Sym is also a first point defense thing if the point doesn't really require Lucio.

Lucio is broke, but after all the nerfs he's not as broke really, just hard to counterplay one without having one. On certain maps it's less of an issue.

Meanwhile outside of like Zarya/Winston, you have to run Rein. Hell, Rein/Zarya is a better dive comp on most maps these days anyways.

Our group currently runs Lucio (me), Rein, Zarya, Hog, Zen/Anna and soldier

I agree, Rein/Zarya is just ridic especially with lucios speed boost. legit zarya + speedboost is terrifying.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

Okay? I don't doubt this. my point is that you can't rely on a single ult to team wipe. which should absolutely be the case for any decent team.

Why should that be the case? Ults combo well together because they are supposed to be combo'd.

One ult should not be wiping a team, it should be used for a quick pick or two, or saving your life.

 

[adamy]

Why should that be the case? Ults combo well together because they are supposed to be combo'd.

One ult should not be wiping a team, it should be used for a quick pick or two, or saving your life.

We are saying the same thing...I'm arguing that a single ult should not and cannot wipe a team...

I was responding to someone who said instead of focusing on destroying the shield generator, just pop an ult and wipe the team. my point is that this is not how it works.

edit: bro seriously read the posts before responding

 

[Gorillaz]

Team wipe is the dream but yea 2 or 3 picks is the more common purpose for a ultimate. Waiting for the perfect team wipe all game caused our team a few Ls....

 

[Jellie]

We are saying the same thing...I'm arguing that a single ult should not and cannot wipe a team...

I was responding to someone who said instead of focusing on destroying the shield generator, just pop an ult and wipe the team. my point is that this is not how it works.

edit: bro seriously read the posts before responding

I didn't say pop an ult. I said combine ults. Even gave an example of two ults that can.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

edit: bro seriously read the posts before responding

Ok bro.

my point is that you can't rely on a single ult to team wipe. which should absolutely be the case for any decent team.

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[adamy]

I didn't say pop an ult. I said combine ults. Even gave an example of two ults that can.

graviton + hog ult is not gonna wipe a decent team who has a shield generator hitting them.

Ok bro.



¯\_(&#12484_/¯

reading that i think i worded it funny

i'm saying you should not ever be able wipe decent team with a single ult, again i think my wording was a bit off and confusing, my bad. basically i'm saying the current balancing in regards to ults is pretty much perfect.

 

[Anne]

Playing with you guys last night made me realize I suck at aiming

Any tips Anne._.

Get better at predicting how higher level people move. Most of aim is prediction.

Go practice a lot, and when you do play deliberately try to force yourself to aim like how you practiced

Lower your sens and lift your wrist off your mousepad.

graviton + hog ult is not gonna wipe a decent team who has a shield generator hitting them.

It causes team wipes in pro matches all the time sooooo

 

[adamy]

It causes team wipes in pro matches all the time sooooo

havent seen it happen once, link?

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

basically i'm saying the current balancing in regards to ults is pretty much perfect.

I agree

 

[RecRoulette]

graviton + hog ult is not gonna wipe a decent team who has a shield generator hitting them.



reading that i think i worded it funny

i'm saying you should not ever be able wipe decent team with a single ult, again i think my wording was a bit off and confusing, my bad. basically i'm saying the current balancing in regards to ults is pretty much perfect.

Yep, the ults situation is fine, even though I wish they would raise the charge rate just a bit in mystery heroes. If someone's good with a hero, there's a good chance they're not losing them for most of the match because they're the only ones that can get an ult.

 

[finalflame]

It's going to be interesting if meta changes to a point where rein and Lucio aren't always "needed" picks especially rein

It would be amazing. The game has been this way since launch.

 

[Anne]

havent seen it happen once, link?

https://youtu.be/1EtftbHPU9E?t=33m13s

That was easy to find. Hog doesn't get final blows but he deals a ton of damage and breaks the shield. Those two ults get team wipes all the time

https://youtu.be/r5cvqO7LHZI?t=12m46s

Here they do the same thing with Nano. They probably didn't even need the Nano but safety. It's just one of the highest damage ult combos period and Zarya/Hog is pretty common so you see it a lot.

 

[Filben]

Thanks for the replies regarding that shield generator.

According to Oversumo my stats are Grandmaster with my mains (Tracer, Winston, Ana), whatever that's worth for, though I don't think I'm ever going to get out of platinum. It's so frustrating to lose because people don't get even the easiest things like grouping up at your team or spawn and NOT one corner away from the enemy, or people start rather flaming and being toxic instead of focusing on their play.

 

[adamy]

It would be amazing. The game has been this way since launch.

still believe you can get away, for the vast majority of the times, with zarya/hog combo without a rein

top tier zaryas can literally carry a team

 

[adamy]

https://youtu.be/1EtftbHPU9E?t=33m13s

That was easy to find. Hog doesn't get final blows but he deals a ton of damage and breaks the shield. Those two ults get team wipes all the time

https://youtu.be/r5cvqO7LHZI?t=12m46s

Here they do the same thing with Nano. They probably didn't even need the Nano but safety. It's just one of the highest damage ult combos period and Zarya/Hog is pretty common so you see it a lot.

would love for you to explain to me how they had a shield generator up if they didn't have a symmetra...

 

[AbaFadi]

would love for you to explain to me how they had a shield generator up if they didn't have a symmetra...

The shield gen is just 75 shields, the Roadhog ult will shred through it while in a Graviton.

 

[Anne]

would love for you to explain to me how they had a shield generator up if they didn't have a symmetra...

Oh against shield gen? It doesn't matter because it easily blows through shield health no problem. Shield gen doesn't even get used much in pro play because ult combos like this invalidate it. If you do see Sym at higher levels she almost always uses TP still. Shield gen is only really useful if wipe = loss even with TP at that stage.

Edit: I'll admit pre Ana/D.Va nerf shield gen was 10x more obnoxious because yeah team wipes were way harder to get.

 

[Skii]

graviton + hog ult is not gonna wipe a decent team who has a shield generator hitting them.

Yes it will lol.

Nanovisor will pretty much deal with it as well.

You do understand that these ults can still wipe even through a sound barrier so what will 75 extra shield do?

 

[Anne]

You do understand that these ults can still wipe even through a sound barrier so what will 75 extra shield do?

Yeah, the things deal excess of 500 damage per character, I don't think an extra 75 is really going to do much lmao

 

[adamy]

The shield gen is just 75 shields, the Roadhog ult will shred through it while in a Graviton.

makes a huge difference if you have an ana in the backline still alive, which is what happened

hugeeee difference

also, my point is that i've never seen it happen yet it is common, yet provided a video where it didn't happen

i think people seriously underestimate the shield generator

 

[adamy]

Oh against shield gen? It doesn't matter because it easily blows through shield health no problem. Shield gen doesn't even get used much in pro play because ult combos like this invalidate it. If you do see Sym at higher levels she almost always uses TP still. Shield gen is only really useful if wipe = loss even with TP at that stage.

Edit: I'll admit pre Ana/D.Va nerf shield gen was 10x more obnoxious because yeah team wipes were way harder to get.

dude i said it in the very post you quoted

graviton + hog ult is not gonna wipe a decent team who has a shield generator hitting them.

shield gen + good ana can counter that shit easy

like i said, you prob wont be able to find anything on the pro level that shows otherwise even tho symmetra gets her fair share of game time

 

[Anne]

i think people seriously underestimate the shield generator

I mean, it's useful against certain things, but if a team has access to burst damage of that magnitude it doesn't matter. Ana can't even save them post nerf. I just thought you meant wholehog/grav, not + shield gen, but I know for a fact shield gen doesn't matter against it. You can even do the math. Even with Ana healing for 150~ HPS on a single 275 health character the whole team is receiving easily 300+ DPS for 5~ seconds.

like i said, you prob wont be able to find anything on the pro level that shows otherwise even tho symmetra gets her fair share of game time

She actually gets played way less this patch and you mostly see TP out of teams that run her IT's why you never see this magical situation occur.

Idk, myself and others who I know have a good enough grasp of the game are all saying the same thing, Dunno what else to say at this point.

 

[adamy]

Yeah, the things deal excess of 500 damage per character, I don't think an extra 75 is really going to do much lmao

not looking at the big picture, you're gonna have a lucio on heal that is pumping it up stacked with shield generator stacked with ana

 

[Red Arremer]

I know, but their accents are very different, even I have problems understanding what they're saying sometimes.

It makes sense though, a normal Greek accent isn't something particularly interesting to hear, I like that they're using an actor from Cyprus.

I imagine that if he's a half-decent actor he'll be able to mask a Cypriot accent. If his character speaks Greek, it will likely be pretty standard Greek.

 

[Anne]

not looking at the big picture, you're gonna have a lucio on heal that is pumping it up stacked with shield generator stacked with ana

Dude an entire team has wholehog DPS + Zarya DPS + any other up DPS atm hitting them. We're talking 300DPS minimum, and it's more than likely that DPS is actually 500+ easy. We've seen this combo burn through teams with sound barrier + Ana + Lucio heals. I don't think a measly 75 shields is going to matter

Don't pros usually replace lucio for symmetra though?

This too lol

 

[Jellie]

not looking at the big picture, you're gonna have a lucio on heal that is pumping it up stacked with shield generator stacked with ana

Don't pros usually replace lucio for symmetra though?

 

[adamy]

I mean, it's useful against certain things, but if a team has access to burst damage of that magnitude it doesn't matter. Ana can't even save them post nerf. I just thought you meant wholehog/grav, not + shield gen, but I know for a fact shield gen doesn't matter against it. You can even do the math. Even with Ana healing for 150~ HPS on

Hog does ~400 dps with his ult if pretty much every pellet is hitting. which is impossible given you're firing at a group of people in a graviton. no idea how the hell you came up with the 300 DPS. your numbers are way off

 

[GraveRobberX]

still believe you can get away, for the vast majority of the times, with zarya/hog combo without a rein

top tier zaryas can literally carry a team

True, but Rein is such a huge fallback as Tank, that he really is a necessity to "push"

Zarya needs to build up to be outstanding, she almost is like a MMORPG character trying to keep her "stacks up", she loses that, it pushes her down for a bit,

Rein on other hand can bully past certain situation Defense can set up, due to shield being such a big thing for him
Hell Quick Play is just to try stuff, goof off, chill mode, yet sometimes you see teams who have no Rein on both sides by 2-3 minutes into the match start swapping towards him

I mean sometimes QP you just want say 6 DPS each side and just rumble brawl
You get it with other tanks, but when Rein shows up on either side tactics change, everything slows down, now its a tug of war of real estate to reach the objective

Rein is a necessity, until another archetype can come in do something similar he will get played a lot to switch up whatever is happening




Was wondering if a new Hero down the pipeline can set up stationary shields
1/3rd the size of Reins, plop them down
Maybe give them an ammo count of 3 shield placements
Long cooldown
2 can be active at 1 time
Closer the Tank to the shield, better "link" and Health, move away further, Health starts depleting faster

This way you have a mobile shield setup
Give it maybe a 2000 Health stat, but once 2 activate it shares and splits to 1000 health each, Tank can keep shields alive by being in vicinity

Just a random thought I had

 

[adamy]

Don't pros usually replace lucio for symmetra though?

i can tell you're joking but symmetra sees a shit ton of play in dimaond, master and GM on consoles

 

[Jellie]

i can tell you're joking but symmetra sees a shit ton of play in dimaond, master and GM on consoles

What? Perfectly legit statement. If symmetra is used its usually with Ana solo healing. Rarely do you see a team use all 3.
I haven't kept up with meta reports for a few weeks but I thought that was standard.

 

[Majine]

You dropped the beat in the wrong favela

 

[adamy]

What? Perfectly legit statement. If symmetra is used its usually with Ana solo healing. Rarely do you see a team use all 3.
I haven't kept up with meta reports for a few weeks but I thought that was standard.

symmetra is (since patch), and has been an offense/DPS hero

shes not a support character, shes DPS

they should literally move her to the dif class in the hero select screen

i play on console where symmetra causes one of the hugest rifts in meta reports due to the fact that she favors the lack of mechanical skill on consoles. you don't have to aim and she can still melt shit.

edit: whether you have a 3-2-1 or 2-2-2 you need 2 healers and no symmetra doesnt count

 

[AbaFadi]

symmetra is (since patch), and has been treated as an offense character

shes not a support character, shes an offense character

they should literally move her to the dif class in the hero select screen

i play on console where symmetra causes one of the hugest rifts in meta reports due to the fact that she favors the lack of mechanical skill on consoles. you don't have to aim and she can still melt shit.

My PS4 account is at 4300 and I don't see anyone really struggling against a Symmetra in that rank tbh. It's her teleporter that causes problems for the most part. I play a lot of Zarya and when they have shield gen, I just combo graviton with another ult like D.Va, Roadhog, Pharah, Tracer, etc., to kill everyone in it through the 75 shields. There are other people shooting in the graviton as well, so it's not 100% dependent on one ult killing everyone in it.

 

[RuinerPrime]

Anyone wanna play on PS4? Psn: RuinerPrime. Roadhog/Zen/Winston/Ana

 

[Nocturnowl]

My new favourite game if I'm Mercy in quick play is to boost up the Widowmaker (because there is ALWAYS a Widowmaker, even here on console) and be putting them on the spot to prove their worth, after about 10 shots they sometimes get one kill!
It's not that great a game actually when I realise that time could've spent helping someone who can hit the fattest side of a roadhog.

Seriously though did anything happen to cause the sudden console Widow resurgence? is there some youtuber smashing out controller headshot kill streaks or did they just think we wouldn't notice them succumbing back to the sniper life?

 

[adamy]

My PS4 account is at 4300 and I don't see anyone really struggling against a Symmetra in that rank tbh. It's her teleporter that causes problems for the most part. I play a lot of Zarya and when they have shield gen, I just combo graviton with another ult like D.Va, Roadhog, Pharah, Tracer, etc., to kill everyone in it through the 75 shields. There are other people shooting in the graviton as well, so it's not 100% dependent on one ult killing everyone in it.

for sure, two or even really 1 ult combined with a well coordinated push by a decent team can wipe easy.

i was playing emphasis on the fact that you can't rely on one or two ults for a wipe. aint that easy, takes a shit ton more and unless your top tier don't expect insane results at higher levels.

simply put: ults are not the response to a shield generator, just fucking take out the generator. its what i said in my first post and my mind is blown this isn't unanimously agreed upon

 

[Jellie]

symmetra is (since patch), and has been an offense/DPS hero

shes not a support character, shes DPS

they should literally move her to the dif class in the hero select screen

i play on console where symmetra causes one of the hugest rifts in meta reports due to the fact that she favors the lack of mechanical skill on consoles. you don't have to aim and she can still melt shit.

edit: whether you have a 3-2-1 or 2-2-2 you need 2 healers and no symmetra doesnt count

"Teams like Cloud 9 and EnVyUs opted to sub her in instead of Lucio for first point defenses, valuing her Shield Generator more than Lucio’s Speed Boost on entrenched defensive setups."

https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2016-12-20-overwatch-hero-meta-report-tanks-for-watching

Like I said I haven't been keeping up with reports so I don't know if it's changed but that's an example of top teams not running lucio.

 

[adamy]

"Teams like Cloud 9 and EnVyUs opted to sub her in instead of Lucio for first point defenses, valuing her Shield Generator more than Lucio's Speed Boost on entrenched defensive setups."

https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2016-12-20-overwatch-hero-meta-report-tanks-for-watching

Like I said I haven't been keeping up with reports so I don't know if it's changed but that's an example of top teams not running lucio.

first time reading this so i stand corrected, my bad. gonna def look more into it as it seems interesting as fuck. thanks for link

edit: as a lucio main this is especially interesting to me but i see article is from 12/16...cant recall any changes to the meta that should not make this relevant? it prolly should still apply today right?

 

[Skii]

simply put: ults are not the response to a shield generator, just fucking take out the generator. its what i said in my first post and my mind is blown this isn't unanimously agreed upon

But ults are the response lol. We've just explained to you that they can team wipe regardless of the extra shields. They can even team wipe through a sound barrier. That's why a lot of Symmetras tend to favour a teleporter instead as it forces the opposing team to take it out or they'll have to deal with 2 fights for the point.

 

[pizzacat]

Get better at predicting how higher level people move. Most of aim is prediction.

Go practice a lot, and when you do play deliberately try to force yourself to aim like how you practiced

Lower your sens and lift your wrist off your mousepad

You mean with bots?

 

[Owzers]

Anyone wanna play on PS4? Psn: RuinerPrime. Roadhog/Zen/Winston/Ana

What is your opinion on people who play Mercy?

I'll add you tonight when I'm on as long as you aren't completely Twisted. But how will I know...

 

[veloxStrix]

first time reading this so i stand corrected, my bad. gonna def look more into it as it seems interesting as fuck. thanks for link

edit: as a lucio main this is especially interesting to me but i see article is from 12/16...cant recall any changes to the meta that should not make this relevant? it prolly should still apply today right?

It still applies. As much as people tend to think, Symmetra is not a DPS. If you are running 2 healers and Symmetra, you won't have the damage needed to win team fights unless the other team is doing something very wrong. Although, since that report, the meta has shifted more towards her using her teleporter again.

the reason you can't find videos of people popping ults on a team that has a shield generator is my exact point. destroy the fucking generator, then wipe the team

cannot fathom how anyone would think the ideal situation is to keep it up and just push

Except you aren't really "pushing" in the traditional sense. It is absolutely possible to just Zarya ult + any combo to kill the other team through shields. The option to clear the generator exists, but it's becoming more common for the Sym to just sit on tele/shields and guard it from flankers. Not to mention said flanker actually has to make it to the generator.

 

[adamy]

But ults are the response lol. We've just explained to you that they can team wipe regardless of the extra shields. They can even team wipe through a sound barrier. That's why a lot of Symmetras tend to favour a teleporter instead as it forces the opposing team to take it out or they'll have to deal with 2 fights for the point.

the reason you can't find videos of people popping ults on a team that has a shield generator is my exact point. destroy the fucking generator, then wipe the team

cannot fathom how anyone would think the ideal situation is to keep it up and just push