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[DJ Demon J]

thats just a rediculous statement, automatic weapons arent even legal at least where i am from.... and i know numerous people who have gun collections that are a part of a hobby they are involved in. A lot of those gun collections contain weapons that dont even work and havnt for years....please tell me how owning a gun that doesnt work is an act of violence in any logical sense? You act like everyone walks around 'packing heat' the large majority of those guns are locked up in gun cabinets and taken up once a year to provide food for a family, and adjust the large game population to an acceptable level for the environments capacity.

Nice job on missing the point.

Hunting animals can be done without a rifle or gun. Still, using a rifle to kill deer once a year is one thing (and still an act of violence, I'm going to post the definition in a moment), owning a handgun with the intention of killing humans (self-defense or not) is quite another. Regardless, both are STILL ACTS OF VIOLENCE. And now for the definition just to try and drill the point home in your head again:

vi·o·lence ( P ) Pronunciation Key (v-lns)
n.

Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing: crimes of violence.
The act or an instance of violent action or behavior.
Intensity or severity, as in natural phenomena; untamed force: the violence of a tornado.
Abusive or unjust exercise of power.
Abuse or injury to meaning, content, or intent: do violence to a text.
Vehemence of feeling or expression; fervor.

violence

n 1: an act of aggression (as one against a person who resists); "he may accomplish by craft in the long run what he cannot do by force and violence in the short one" [syn: force] 2: the property of being wild or turbulent; "the storm's violence" [syn: ferocity, fierceness, furiousness, fury, vehemence, wildness] 3: a turbulent state resulting in injuries and destruction etc.

 

[DJ Demon J]

I've shot thousands of rounds over my lifetime, and I can honestly say I've only once targeted a living creature: a pesky armadillo at my grandmother's house.

Thousands eh? Why shoot so many times? Were you practicing your aim? What purpose would praticing your aim have...to be more effective at using the weapon to kill?

Firing a gun is a violent act, guns are designed to kill, these are truths; facts. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept for people to understand.

 

[Atrex]

i know what violence is.....but what exactly is your point, i didnt see the part of this poll that stated that any portion of those gun owners were intending on using them to hurt any other human being...and what is so bad about violence(hunting) when it only provides for the common good of socienty with really no detrimental factors....why exactly are you so negative towards that.

 

[DJ Demon J]

The use of violence is not necessarily evil, especially when you begin to start talking about violence that doesn't cause injury (brandishing a weapon)

This isn't the animal kingdom. Violence is not required in our modern society to survive anymore. The use of violence as a threat or actual occurence is an evil act. You are intending to injure, maim, or kill another human being. If you believe that injuring, maiming, or killing other human beings is NOT an evil act.....well, then I can't help you.

 

[Teflar]

Thousands eh? Why shoot so many times? Were you practicing your aim? What purpose would praticing your aim have...to be more effective at using the weapon to kill?

Again, you conviently forget that, yes, it could just be to improve aim. Target shooting is a sport and a hobby. Even if simply firing a gun is a violent act that doesn't mean that every person with a gun is looking to shoot another person.

Edit:

This isn't the animal kingdom. Violence is not required in our modern society to survive anymore.

Hah! Then you, sir, are either deluded or a bigger hippie then I am. Violence is a natural part of life and will continue to be reqired in modern life until humans are removed from the animal kingdom (which, last I checked, we are still a part of). The base truth of society is that, yes, there are violent people out there. Violent people with guns filling the exact profile that you paint. People have a right to defend themselves and if by having a gun on me, even unloaded, could deter an attacker then it is a useful tool providing a useful service, violent or not.

If you really think that violence is not needed in modern society, I urge you to take a closer look at human nature.

 

[Ristamar]

"I've got 1.7 guns, .85 for each of ya."

 

[Doth Togo]

Riflery is also a part of the Cross Country skiing competition... the Biathlon.

http://www.olympic.org/uk/sports/programme/index_uk.asp?SportCode=BT

Quote:

Biathlon
Olympic sport since 1960

Biathlon was originally a tactic of survival rather than a sport. Northern Europeans skied to hunt for food and, later, skied with weapons to defend their countries. The word "biathlon" stems from the Greek word for two contests. Today it is interpreted as a joining of two sports: cross-country skiing and rifle shooting.

In 1960, Biathlon joined the International Modern Pentathlon Union (UIPM). But in 1993, an agreement was made to retain the Union as an umbrella body under which the UIPM and the IBU could act autonomously. It took effect in 1998, but the two sports maintain relations in various projects.

 

[Justin Bailey]

"I've got 1.7 guns, .85 for each of ya."

:lol

 

[Atrex]

Oh and since simply shooting a firearm is such an evil thing then i guess the Olympics should be boycotted for bieng satanistic devilworshipping tirades of heathenistic barbarianism.

damn beat by doth.

 

[DJ Demon J]

i know what violence is.....but what exactly is your point, i didnt see the part of this poll that stated that any portion of those gun owners were intending on using them to hurt any other human being...and what is so bad about violence(hunting) when it only provides for the common good of socienty with really no detrimental factors....why exactly are you so negative towards that.

My point is that the overwhelming majority of gun owners aren't owning these guns for private display, or even hunting--they're owning them to, ultimately, injure or kill another human being--fulfilling the gun's intended purpose. That is a condition that is guaranteed to breed accidents and fear and the perpetration of evil and violence among human beings.

To make it simple for you (and I know I'll continue to bring the NRA members of the world out on this with stories of self-defense and responsible behavior and animal hunting and "private display"): Gun ownership is out of control in the US, and should be rigidly cracked down upon...

 

[Atrex]

the thing is as correctly portrayed by the poll (urban ownership < rural ownershiip) id say its almost unanimously agreed that most gun owners own guns for the purpose of sport (i.e. target practice, game hunting, and collecting).

edit: And i agree with you that something could be done to cut down on the small minority of violent crimes committed with firearms through more thorough background checks and wating lists...but that does not distract from the fact that most guns are owned and operated with good, safe intentions.

 

[Kifimbo]

Soon, the "average american" will own more guns than nipples.

 

[Teflar]

Gun ownership is out of control in the US, and should be rigidly cracked down upon...

While your other points may be off mark, I agree completely with this.
Or, as Mr Rock put forth, we could forget gun control and instead focus on bullet control

 

[DJ Demon J]

Why did people want to be good at shooting when guns were first created? To be better at killing something, either animal or human. Competition stemmed from that just like fencing. Fencers are engaged in an act of violence. They don't actually hurt each other (protective gear, although I've heard of accidents), but when they are engaged in competition, their base human emotion is to inflict harm on the opponent and not to be harmed themselves. That is violence at the core. Football is another example of a violent sport. You can play flag football or two hand touch and not change the majority of the game. But tackling is violent and people like it. We're violent by nature and the competition we like to see is violent in nature (boxing, martial arts, hockey, etc).

Again, guns are designed to injure or kill, using them is a violent act. The majority of gun owners own guns, ultimately, to injure or kill another human being.

Edit: Thanks for proving my point Doth by posting that the Olympic competition stemmed from violence.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

a lot of people in the south and midwest need weapons to hunt for food. their income isnt as high you see and hunting deer and such helps them feed their family. they NEED guns.
sburbanites dont, i think. but other than that, just cause you own a gun doesnt mean you are violent or are going to shoot somebody. that's a dumb blanket statement to make.

edit: and besides how are we suppose to hunt today's super-animals? the electric bear? the flying Eel? the jackalope? teh radioactive squirrel?!?!?!

 

[DarienA]

Whatever it takes for you to sleep at night Sparky. The image of two people sleeping wih guns in their hands is so comical but also sad. You could also be that one guy out of twenty who has herpes but I wouldn't go around bragging about it.

That's dumb, who the fuck sleeps with guns in their hands? Never in my post did I say we sleep with guns in our hands fool, I said our guns are kept closer to us than our nightstand...

a loser is you.

 

[DJ Demon J]

If you really think that violence is not needed in modern society, I urge you to take a closer look at human nature.

As long as you (and others with your mentality) feel that it's needed, then it will be needed, because by committing (or being prepared to commit) violence in answer to violence you perpetuate violence.

 

[Thaedolus]

Thousands eh? Why shoot so many times? Were you practicing your aim? What purpose would praticing your aim have...to be more effective at using the weapon to kill?

Firing a gun is a violent act, guns are designed to kill, these are truths; facts. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept for people to understand.

I enjoy target practice. I don't enjoy killing people or animals. So I shoot up soda cans, clay pidgeons, and old milk jugs rather than my high school and deer. I don't understand why you can't understand this. I don't kill people, or animals, yet I'm a gun owner and love to go shooting. I'm not preparing for a home invasion or World War III, I just enjoy "target practice."

Am I a violent or evil person? I don't think so.

 

[Teflar]

I enjoy target practice. I don't enjoy killing people or animals.

But you own a gun, therefore you want to kill people! [/DJ Demon]

As long as you (and others with your mentality) feel that it's needed, then it will be needed

Haha, that amuses me as a non-violent person. People with my mentality? You mean people who think? Violence is an inherrent part of nature. If you want to cover your ears and close your eyes, that doesn't make it go away.

Yes, if we all agreed to be peaceful there would be no need for guns (Well, except target practice and private collections, but those are imaginary or excuses people who want to kill use anyway, right?) but reality is that there are people in the world who can only be persuded by violence. Until the people of THAT mentality do not feel that way anymore, violence will be needed.

Edit:
You said yourself that violence does not have to be killing people. It can be threatening or otherwise cause no bodily harm. I am talking about both killing violence (extreme) and less "final" violence (every day occurance in everyone's life).

 

[Arluss]

I didn't realize we lived in a magical Star Trek-ish world where we mostly use peace within our own socieities. If only I've known it sooner, I could just write off all these silly wars and rebellions as figments of my imagination.

As for owning a gun, or two. Possibly three. I don't mind.

Going out for target practice? Have fun.

Taking your kids out on a hunting trip? As long as you have a liscense, shoot a fine buck for all I care.

I really don't see the big deal in gun ownership, as long as you aren't carrying it around in public and pretending you're a bad-ass. Then when you get arrested for being an idiot, you had what was coming to you.

Other than that, feel free to buy guns.

 

[DJ Demon J]

Haha, that amuses me as a non-violent person. People with my mentality? You mean people who think? Violence is an inherrent part of nature. If you want to cover your ears and close your eyes, that doesn't make it go away.

Which is it, you're non-violent or violence is a part of nature (and human nature)? You're right, covering your ears and closing your eyes won't make violence go away, but being willing to commit violence in return (and shrugging your shoulders and saying "there will always be violent people", without trying to believe in a solution to that problem) sure as hell won't make violence go away either.

 

[Atrex]

So you sleep with your gun laying on your pillow? On top of your bed side table? Next to you? You imply that it is very close to you and no fumbling will be required for it which must mean you sleep with it very close to you and out in the open....Still just as sad.

your the one threatening to sneak into his house and kill him before he can get to it, which is worse? hmm

 

[Teflar]

I am a non-violent person in a violent world Just because I don't own any weapons, does not mean I cannot understand people who would own them, for non-violent and "lesser violent" (target practice) means. You do seem to have this problem. You see the tool as inherrently violent which is not the case. You also argue that the tool only has one purpose, which is also false.

As for my "mentality"? If all the guns were outlawed today and it were somehow brought to pass that the entire world would give them up so that no one was armed with a gun.... don't you think you'd immediately see a rise in the sales of other weapons? And if all weapons were abolished? People would go back to sharpening sticks. Violence cannot be abolished and while I applaud and agree that we can hope for a better situation, the sad fact is that this is how the world is. Humans are violent animals. If I get pissed at someone I raise my voice. According to your definition that is violence and I am a violent person.

I think you have a decent point but are not making it well. You create too many sweeping generalizations (All guns are used to kill people) and worry about symantics (the official definition of violence) too much to be taken seriously in your argument for a noble, peacful, but ultimately utopian and unattainable ideal.

 

[Atrex]

the point is there is nothing wrong with a security blanket, and your bashing of him regardless of the level of sincerity in your threats is just stupid.

 

[NLB2]

As long as you (and others with your mentality) feel that it's needed, then it will be needed, because by committing (or being prepared to commit) violence in answer to violence you perpetuate violence.

I would love it if everyone was like you DJ. All pacifists not wanting to hurt anybody. If that were the case you would have to adress me as Emperor Nathan, 'cause I'd rule the world.

My point is this - all it takes is for one person to be violent and then the whole pacifist world would come down. When you have a population of over six billion people, at least one of them is going to be violent. .
You're arguing something rather ridiculous.

 

[karasu]

Jesus. I grew up in a rough neighborhood , have been shot at, and I have never had to use a gun. I have no idea why people in places like the suburbs think they're gonna have to defend their home rambo style with AK 47's and uzis. WTF is wrong with you people? The world is not an action movie. There are no rebellions on Elm Street. @_@ Even if your home is robbed, chances are you've just giving the perp something shiny and dangerous to steal. Because the robbery will more than likely happen when you aren't at home in the first place. But of course, the robbery won't happen at all.

 

[DJ Demon J]

If I get pissed at someone I raise my voice. According to your definition that is violence and I am a violent person.

A raised voice can't kill a person. A raised voice doesn't always imply harm to another person.

 

[MoccaJava]

I don't believe this, honestly.

I'm not neccesarily saying the poll is shit more than I just have trouble believing it.

 

[Teflar]

A raised voice can't kill a person. A raised voice doesn't always imply harm to another person.

Still an act of violence.

 

[DJ Demon J]

Still an act of violence.

Not if it doesn't imply harm or anger at another person.

 

[Teflar]

Ok, this is getting silly. To make my point more succinct I will quote NLB2

I would love it if everyone was like you DJ. All pacifists not wanting to hurt anybody. If that were the case you would have to adress me as Emperor Nathan, 'cause I'd rule the world.

My point is this - all it takes is for one person to be violent and then the whole pacifist world would come down. When you have a population of over six billion people, at least one of them is going to be violent. .
You're arguing something rather ridiculous.

Maybe that will make more sense to you then the way I have been trying to phrase it.

 

[DJ Demon J]

Ok, this is getting silly. To make my point more succinct I will quote NLB2



Maybe that will make more sense to you then the way I have been trying to phrase it.

It makes perfect sense, it still doesn't disprove my point. I'm done posting in this thread. If you can't see it by now, no amount of talk will make it appear to you. I'm at least comforted that you're for stricter gun control (though it boggles me why you still debate my point).

 

[Teflar]

Oh, I was just playing devil's advocate. I agree with your sentiment, just not the arguments you are using to put it forth.

Chalk it up to one too many logic classes if you want

 

[radios shipping overview]

Bringing down the average, here. The rest of my family is responsible for pushing it up, however.

 

[Phoenix]

Its odd becaue I don't know a single person who owns a handgun.

 

[Louis]

I dont own any gun . you can only get a gun in the Netherlands when you have the right licenses and it's difficult to get those .

 

[skip]

if this statistic includes shotguns and rifles used for hunting, then I'm not surprised. nor do I care much.

 

[DarienA]

So you sleep with your gun laying on your pillow? On top of your bed side table? Next to you? You imply that it is very close to you and no fumbling will be required for it which must mean you sleep with it very close to you and out in the open....Still just as sad.

But like I said whatever helps you sleep, some people need large hard objects next to them at all times to fall asleep.

No, no, and... well no. Let's not play the guessing game anymore... you suck at it. and I didn't ask what you need to help you fall asleep... TMI my friend, TMI.

 

[Badabing]

I own a Mauser and a 9mm pistol... it's always good having one.

 

[XS+]

I own two guns -- Ruger P90 and Glock 18. I have a scope for the latter. I used to own a Desert Eagle, but sold it due to its size. Too many wannabe 50 Cents in this world not to own a gun or two. I know a few friends who've been robbed. If they had a gun, I suspect the outcome would have been different.

 

[NLB2]

I own two guns -- Ruger P90 and Glock 18. I have a scope for the latter. I used to own a Desert Eagle, but sold it due to its size. Too many wannabe 50 Cents in this world not to own a gun or two. I know a few friends who've been robbed. If they had a gun, I suspect the outcome would have been different.

Haha, yeah, they'd probably be dead. Did there robbers not have guns or something?

 

[XS+]

Haha, yeah, they'd probably be dead. Did there robbers not have guns or something?

Of course they had guns. Who robs someone without a gun?

 

[Badabing]

Of course they had guns. Who robs someone without a gun?

 

[moist]

I have a .44 Mag I carry for bear protection when I go fishing or camping.... as do many people around here.

 

[NLB2]

Of course they had guns. Who robs someone without a gun?

I don't know if you realize this or not, but what makes a gun so fucking scary is that to use it, all you've got to do is pull the trigger a centimeter or two. If your buddy tried to pull a gun on his robber while his robber already had the gun pulled on him he would be dead now. Perhaps if he felt he was getting into a bad situation ahead of time the gun would have been able to protect him from the robbery but I cannot think of any other mugging situations in which having a gun would protect you from a mugger with a gun.

 

[MC Safety]

A few points, and keep in mind I didn't bother reading any of these posts.

1) Man, I have some catching up to do.

2) Also, what about the King of England?

3) And I think the Constitution allows me the right to own teflon-coated cop killer bullets and lots of them.

 

[Date of Lies]

What the fuck do you need a AK47 for?

 

[belmakor]

What the fuck do you need a AK47 for?

That way you can fire a spread pattern over the entire flock of ducks.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

No doubt there is a SHITPOT of gun owners in the south, esp here in louisiana and mississippi where it's pretty much a hunters paradise.

Personally I don't own a gun and don't hunt,

& I support people buying a gun and registering it for protection, mainly to protect themselves from lil scared ass's bitches who want to feel what it's like to be a man actually pull guns out on people.

Ironic how its the people seemingly always pulling guns out on people trying to prove how tough they are need a gun, when in reality it only shows how they are really cowards.

 

[DrLazy]

Just try to invade us. Please. I'm looking at you Canada.