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[EatChildren]

A "Wii HD" would be a little too reminiscent of the Sega 32x. They need to do a serious hardware upgrade next.

Not really. The industry now is different than it was then, especially financially for someone like Nintendo. Even if the "WiiHD" was literally just a standard Wii with extra horsepower for 720p output, M+ bundled in, and extra storage space they could get away with it quite easily me thinks.

I figure there would a number of people yet to jump on the Wii bandwagon who'd be more attracted to the system if it had a clearer display on their HD-TV, and more focus on storage space/M+ bundling.

 

[vanguardian1]

I figure there would a number of people yet to jump on the Wii bandwagon who'd be more attracted to the system if it had a clearer display on their HD-TV, and more focus on storage space/M+ bundling.

Even though more often it's because of their TV's that the Wii looks so bad?

 

[cartman414]

Not really. The industry now is different than it was then, especially financially for someone like Nintendo. Even if the "WiiHD" was literally just a standard Wii with extra horsepower for 720p output, M+ bundled in, and extra storage space they could get away with it quite easily me thinks.

I figure there would a number of people yet to jump on the Wii bandwagon who'd be more attracted to the system if it had a clearer display on their HD-TV, and more focus on storage space/M+ bundling.

What I mean is that if dated too close to the true successor to the Wii, it would be viewed as nothing more than an annoyingly unnecessary stopgap to the real thing for most.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

What I mean is that if dated too close to the true successor to the Wii, it would be viewed as nothing more than an annoyingly unnecessary stopgap to the real thing for most.

I'll go with that. If Nintendo pushed a WiiHD out the door for 2010, it would be hard to swallow a next next gen Nintendo console in 2013 or 2014. Too much too fast. If Nintendo waits until 2012 or 2013 and releases something that's enough of an upgrade over the PS3 or 360 then it's into it's next gen at the same time or possibly a year or two earlier than it's competitors.

@Eteric Rice

I see where you're coming from. I think Nintendo fully recognizes it as a problem, and it's one of the reasons that this generation for them was a small and incremental system improvement. I don't think it's something for them to overcome again by restraining themselves again. I think they'll address it by putting more emphasis on Wiiware for more niche and smaller developers - especially if I'm running with the assumption that a larger download storage will be included with their next generation system.

 

[Durante]

I think the question should be what would happen to development costs if Nintendo upgraded to HD? I think they might be also concerned that smaller developers won't be able to develop for the system because of the generational development cost jump.

This is what I'm concerned with, honestly. And I don't want to see them reduced to digital downloads only. I want my Atluses and NISes, etc, to be able to stick around and compete.

Ugh, not this argument again. Development costs are not increased by having more powerful hardware (in fact, it decreases costs for equivalent games), that only happens if you try to compete at the AAA end. Most games on all the platforms don't. There are at least as many niche Japanese developers working on PS3/360 as there are on Wii.

 

[Azelover]

When it comes to market power, Nintendo's weak online works to their advantage.

 

[gamergirly]

What I mean is that if dated too close to the true successor to the Wii, it would be viewed as nothing more than an annoyingly unnecessary stopgap to the real thing for most.

It's not quite the same but didnt Sega release Saturn AND Dreamcast within close timeframe to each other?

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

That much should also be clear to anyone who has ever read any literature on the subject. It is true that it won't necessarily be Nintendo themselves who will capture this market, but I think it will become increasingly clear as time goes on that those who do will be doing it the Nintendo way. Pre-empting this will be Nintendo's next challenge.

Isn't that the SONY modo? Look at the market you are trying to capture and look back at what others have done and see the reason for their failures?

Talking about this now is like saying 'Nintendo will get your mom to buy a game console' back in 2005. Nintendo says they want to do it, the strategy books explain what they'll try to do, but it is unknowable if they will actually succeed. And more importantly, the very concept makes the gaf furious. I personally avoid discussing these topics in depth because I don't want to deal with the hell fire. Nintendo is going to do what they are going to do. If they succeed, it will still be fun to discuss after the fact, and if they fail, I can watch how a brilliant entertainment company deals with failure (again).

That should not discourage you, but I think the whole "it makes gaf furious" thing is the reason why you don't hear a lot about it.

Agreed.

Exactly right. The market could completely change next gen, with some crash hot new genre ruling the roost and shooters may end up becoming a niche genre with very few releases, like adventure games or platformers and how JRPGs are going this gen.

Then you'll get a few releases every year selling less and less to an increasingly smaller and pickier audience. Eventually this audience will find some kind of touchstone shooter considered to be the pinnacle of the genre and every game to come out afterwards will be a clone of this first one.

There are still a fair share of adventure games and JRPG's being released this generation. You just have to look for them. I do agree that the genre will step out of the limelight and head back to being mostly PC centric.

Speaking of which, I'd say a much better question is this: What disc format are Wii 2 games going to use?

Would they be safe with DVDs again or will they, and Microsoft, be forced to go to something higher capacity? This seems like a more interesting discussion than whether the Wii 2 will be HD, which of course it will be.

I think many are looking at the PSP Go! to see how successful full digital distribution will be.

If not I'd assume discs or maybe (now just maybe) Flash Carts like the DS. They are getting cheaper and cheaper as time goes on and in reality I think that 8 to 12 GB carts won't be that pricey in the not so distant future.

Ugh, not this argument again. Development costs are not increased by having more powerful hardware (in fact, it decreases costs for equivalent games), that only happens if you try to compete at the AAA end. Most games on all the platforms don't. There are at least as many niche Japanese developers working on PS3/360 as there are on Wii.

And look how well they are doing. Actually that is pretty oxymoronic as hardly anything in Japan is doing well in gaming.

Case and point when new hardware is shown and is marketed for technical prowess others follow to capitalize on it. There is a reason why you see such few small and medium non-Japanese developers working on the PS3/360. Last generation there were tons of small and medium developers working across all the platforms. This generation there are very few especially when you factor out the Wii. Yes there are few (very few) exceptions like Gust or NiS but they are just that exceptions (mind you they have always been the exception in gaming as their games tend to lack graphical fidelity), not to mention that they already have significantly strong fanbases already. For everyone else you have to be AT LEAST on par with the average game to even get yourself noticed. This has been shown every gaming generation, why would it change now?

 

[plagiarize]

Ugh, not this argument again. Development costs are not increased by having more powerful hardware (in fact, it decreases costs for equivalent games), that only happens if you try to compete at the AAA end. Most games on all the platforms don't. There are at least as many niche Japanese developers working on PS3/360 as there are on Wii.

i don't think it's as big a concern as it used to be either. before low dev costs were one of the things to try and encourage developers to take a chance on trying to make something with wacky motion controls. now that the system is proven, i think you'll find developers a bit more ready to jump in.

the important thing really is to ensure that when the 360 and PS3 start competing for the Wii's audience, that the Wii can match the power of the 360 and PS3. it becomes much more important then to be in the same ballpark.

that's my feeling anyway.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Some of you haven't caught on that:

#1- 1 sku has lent to Nintendo's success with lower entry level gamers (casuals if you need to call them that) due to it being an easy package

#2- we do not know how (or even if) these type of gamers would transition and how soon they'd be willing too (I imagine, much much later than most everyone here)

#3- bundling the same Wii (not one with better hardware/output) with new peripherals, games, colors and such is way more likely than any kind of new hardware

#4- the portable market is not the console market so transitions are much more difficult for consumers in comparison...a DSlite to DSi transition would be much harder for a home console than you think

#5- a minor bump does nothing but make output slightly better (something that could be much better solved with a new (HDMI) cable), that won't make MW2 or RE5 come to Wii, only a major bump in power (ie: a next-gen Wii) would make that happen (side note: those games could still come to Wii anyways, but not because of any upgrade, but because the userbase might be too hard to ignore)

#6- a major bump is less ideal since it would split the userbase and take away Wii's best advantage (large userbase) all while cutting the current Wii too short before it's time

#7- any kind of mid-gen bump (minor or major) isn't ideal until Nintendo figures out a transfer solution for WFC saves/WiiShop purchases for current Wii owners (ie: they won't, they'll probably wait to deal with this next-gen instead)

The more and more I read your guys' comments on the how/when/what scenerio's of a "Wii+" (minor bump), "WiiHD" (bugger bump) or "Wii2" (biggest bump) or whatever, I think you guys are running into a brick wall over and over. This is why I will say again: 3RD PILLAR!

 

[-x.Red.x-]

BEST GIF I SEEN YET.

Definitely one of my top ten.

EDIT: I just found out Micheal Pachter is INDEED a GAFFER

RoFLoLFMaO

Mr.Pachter if you're still here do you also read N4G.com's comments as well?

 

[Kastle]

Interview with Pachter on KonsoliFIN:

Nintendo is probably making a mistake about online game play, and if not corrected, could ultimately lose some share to the others.

And for NeoGAFfers:

I read a lot of websites, and love reading NeoGAF. It helps me immensely. There are few breaking stories that don’t hit NeoGAF within 30 minutes.

http://blog.konsolifin.net/2009/06/14/600/

 

[Neo C.]

Wow, he sure is a hard worker, though I don't know how many hours he just surf around the www.:lol

 

[michaelpachter]

Wow, he sure is a hard worker, though I don't know how many hours he just surf around the www.:lol

Rust never sleeps . . .

 

[schuelma]

Pachter started out as a lawyer...hmm...Pachter you need a lowly paid apprentice?? :lol :lol

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Some of you haven't caught on that:

#1- 1 sku has lent to Nintendo's success with lower entry level gamers (casuals if you need to call them that) due to it being an easy package

#2- we do not know how (or even if) these type of gamers would transition and how soon they'd be willing too (I imagine, much much later than most everyone here)

#3- bundling the same Wii (not one with better hardware/output) with new peripherals, games, colors and such is way more likely than any kind of new hardware

#4- the portable market is not the console market so transitions are much more difficult for consumers in comparison...a DSlite to DSi transition would be much harder for a home console than you think

#5- a minor bump does nothing but make output slightly better (something that could be much better solved with a new (HDMI) cable), that won't make MW2 or RE5 come to Wii, only a major bump in power (ie: a next-gen Wii) would make that happen (side note: those games could still come to Wii anyways, but not because of any upgrade, but because the userbase might be too hard to ignore)

#6- a major bump is less ideal since it would split the userbase and take away Wii's best advantage (large userbase) all while cutting the current Wii too short before it's time

#7- any kind of mid-gen bump (minor or major) isn't ideal until Nintendo figures out a transfer solution for WFC saves/WiiShop purchases for current Wii owners (ie: they won't, they'll probably wait to deal with this next-gen instead)

The more and more I read your guys' comments on the how/when/what scenerio's of a "Wii+" (minor bump), "WiiHD" (bugger bump) or "Wii2" (biggest bump) or whatever, I think you guys are running into a brick wall over and over. This is why I will say again: 3RD PILLAR!

I think Pachter is right in that Wii 2 or Wii HD or my personal hope, Wii Stereo is closer than we think. I get the feeling that Nintendo will be the first one to launch a new system. Anyway, DrGakman, you make some good points but;

#1. Wii 2 could theoretically work. It's worked for Sony with the PS1 to PS2 and currently the PS2 & PS3. There's no reason Nintendo couldn't do it. They did it before with NES to SNES and the SNES to N64. For all of these examples, they continued to be supported well into their next gen counterpart.

#2. Nintendo's whole goal is to get new people to play games. There are some people who haven't played games since the NES or Sega Genesis. There are also people who never play games that Nintendo wants to lure in. Their next system has to have technology to warrant consumers to purchase it. I'm sure Nintendo is well aware of this and know that they have to do something more than just better graphics for Wii 2.

#3. I could see them bundling in motion + along with Wii Sports Resort. As a matter of fact, I think they should. There's no reason they couldn't bundle it in with the system and continue to sell it in their current packages.

#4. If they introduced a new SKU (let's call it Wii HD because technically it's not Wii 2) they could just beef up the graphics slightly so that it can upscale games to HD. Couple this with a bundle and voila, they drop the price of the original Wii and retain the current price for Wii HD. This could probably be done relatively cheaply and wouldn't affect game development since all games on Wii and Wii HD would be compatable. This is probably the most likely scenario if they do it next year.

#5. A minor bump gives Nintendo a reason to keep the price high. They either need to reduce the price, bundle it or release a new SKU or system all together.

#6. Something needs to happen. I like the Wii, but it's graphics are terrible. With both Sony and Microsoft knocking on the door to Nintendo's territory, they need to act. While I agree there is still a lot of potential for Wii there are two problems. One, the Wii will have been out for 5 years in 2011. Historically Nintendo releases a new system every 5 years. Two, there are so many different type of attachments that it's getting confusing. A new SKU or system is probably the best route to take to avoid consumer bewilderment.

#7. I'm sure there's a way to do this. Isn't there a way to retain your DLC now if your Wii breaks?

So, I think once again I think it's safe to say Nintendo will be the first one to launch a new SKU/system. If you want to count Xbox Natal as a new SKU I suppose it they could be the same time. The thing is, Wii is the weakest system graphically. It's going to become more and more obvious when Sony and Microsoft come out with their motion controls. Motion + already stands to split their userbase, so launching a new SKU to support it is probably what's going to happen.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

I think Pachter is right in that Wii 2 or Wii HD or my personal hope, Wii Stereo is closer than we think. I get the feeling that Nintendo will be the first one to launch a new system. Anyway, DrGakman, you make some good points but;

#1. Wii 2 could theoretically work. It's worked for Sony with the PS1 to PS2 and currently the PS2 & PS3. There's no reason Nintendo couldn't do it. They did it before with NES to SNES and the SNES to N64. For all of these examples, they continued to be supported well into their next gen counterpart.

#2. Nintendo's whole goal is to get new people to play games. There are some people who haven't played games since the NES or Sega Genesis. There are also people who never play games that Nintendo wants to lure in. Their next system has to have technology to warrant consumers to purchase it. I'm sure Nintendo is well aware of this and know that they have to do something more than just better graphics for Wii 2.

#3. I could see them bundling in motion + along with Wii Sports Resort. As a matter of fact, I think they should. There's no reason they couldn't bundle it in with the system and continue to sell it in their current packages.

#4. If they introduced a new SKU (let's call it Wii HD because technically it's not Wii 2) they could just beef up the graphics slightly so that it can upscale games to HD. Couple this with a bundle and voila, they drop the price of the original Wii and retain the current price for Wii HD. This could probably be done relatively cheaply and wouldn't affect game development since all games on Wii and Wii HD would be compatable. This is probably the most likely scenario if they do it next year.

#5. A minor bump gives Nintendo a reason to keep the price high. They either need to reduce the price, bundle it or release a new SKU or system all together.

#6. Something needs to happen. I like the Wii, but it's graphics are terrible. With both Sony and Microsoft knocking on the door to Nintendo's territory, they need to act. While I agree there is still a lot of potential for Wii there are two problems. One, the Wii will have been out for 5 years in 2011. Historically Nintendo releases a new system every 5 years. Two, there are so many different type of attachments that it's getting confusing. A new SKU or system is probably the best route to take to avoid consumer bewilderment.

#7. I'm sure there's a way to do this. Isn't there a way to retain your DLC now if your Wii breaks?

So, I think once again I think it's safe to say Nintendo will be the first one to launch a new SKU/system. If you want to count Xbox Natal as a new SKU I suppose it they could be the same time. The thing is, Wii is the weakest system graphically. It's going to become more and more obvious when Sony and Microsoft come out with their motion controls. Motion + already stands to split their userbase, so launching a new SKU to support it is probably what's going to happen.

Thanks for the responce, but to all those points I will say again: 3RD Pillar.

A "new" Wii of any sort when Nintendo is so far ahead of the competition in terms of userbase doesn't make much sense. You can say to pre-imtively "stay ahead" in the graphical aspect, but to do that would require a major update to the hardware which still means starting all over. This cuts off their major advantage (marketshare/userbase) all while cutting their profitability down and the Wii's lifespan way too short. Nintendo also won't just go with a graphical update & WM+...that isn't enough reason to bring out a new system to prematurely cut short their best selling console yet. In other words, they'll probably bring more (interface wise) to it, which again means further splitting the userbase if they do it as the "new" or next Wii. I just don't see it.

Basically all this theorizing is that the Pachter-ites want an HD system and some people actually think Natal & the PSWand are really going to hurt Nintendo so much that Nintendo has to "react" hastily. Nintendo is too far ahead to start over again just because the competition is actually competing. Even if the Natal & PSWand are as successful of add-on's for their respective systems as WiiFit was to Wii (they won't be, but let's humor the notion) that's not going to kill Nintendo, nor "steal away all the casual" OMG. If anything it'll just extend the life of those systems while forcing Nintendo to stay one step ahead with things like the Vitality Sensor for Wii. This also means Nintendo shouldn't start over because that would make them look scared/weak and would really piss off people who just bought the Wii.

This all comes down to: Nintendo has such a lead they don't need to compete in the traditional sense (more power/graphics ASAP), they still have tons of great exclussive games coming to Wii, they still have new ideas like the Vitality Sensor (and I'm sure even more craziness we can't even imagine) and they haven't even started new colors, bundles or pricedrops yet. So, in other words...there's PLENTY of life left in the Wii, which will show several things to consumers: Nintendo is committed to supporting it even in lue of HD consoles being more powerful, that they were the first with motion and in that are staying ahead with more innovation and that there's value in the system because of it having just as long as lifespan as the competition.

I forsee these events folding out like this:

October Nintendo Conference 2009
-WFC Button details (allows you to see Wii Friends who are on WFC)
-bundles instead of pricedrops details
-"Wii + Bundle" (Wii, WiiSports/WiiSports Resort Disc, WM+) becomes the new standerd $250 SKU (no need for a pricedrop)

GDC 2010
-MHTri Bundle (Black Wii, WiiSports & MHTri Discs) limited time, launches worldwide for $250
-WFC Button firmware launch
-DSi Virtual Handheld service launching
-Vitality Sensor details/software

E3 2010
-video streaming service launched worldwide
-upping the download limit size for WiiWare & DSiWare
-official Nintendo 32GB SD Card
-Wii HDMI cable
-new DSi & Wii colors
-Vitality Sensor software launch
-"3RD Pillar" tease

October Nintendo Conference 2010
-"Wii HD" Bundle (Wii, WiiSports/WiiSports Resort Disc, WM+, HDMI cable, 2000NP Card & 32GB SD Card) $300
-"3RD Pillar" hints dropped

GDC 2011
-pricedrops: DSlite to $100 & DSi, 32GB SD Card to $150
-"3RD Pillar" more details

E3 2011
-pricedrops: "Wii+" Bundle to $200, "Wii HD" Bundle to $250
-strong support for DSi & Wii for years to come
-"3RD Pillar" blowout reveal

October Nintendo Conference 2011
-"3RD Pillar" launch details

The beauty of a 3RD Pillar strategy is it can be launched at any time, it can literally be anything (including a portable/console hybrid), it can more easily phase replace Wii or DSi (or both) transitionally without immediatly or directly effecting them all while introducing new concepts (to new players, to enthusiests and to the industry as a whole). If a failure it won't hurt the DSi or Wii and if a success it can eventually replce either or both. With a 3RD Pillar, the DSi & Wii can continue on normally (good for current players, profits, business, the industry) as if it didn't exist BUT it also allows Nintendo to freely "start over" by introducing more bold interfaces/concepts that Wii or DSi can't do (which further lowers the bar of entry for new players, Nintendo's ultimate goal) AND offering more power/HD graphics (which can more easily satisfy the enthusiest player than a "Wii HD" mid-gen bump ever could).

With the above "chain of events", Nintendo keeps the current Wii & DSi in tact as they are, milking them, not cutting them short, further growing them as if they didn't have competition. To more dirrectly attack the competition or answer those who want more, a well possitioned 3RD Pillar could do so while also reaching out to even more players (both low entry "casuals" and enthusiest "core"). How do I suggest they do this: with a powerful handheld that can be played on the go and on your TV (via a sold seperatly "base" with HDMI output) that offers a variety of controls (traditional, touch, IR, motion & new concepts too). It's not only a disruption to Nintendo's current model, but to the industry as a whole since it's games (which could be WiiWare, DSiWare, VC, VH and new holo-card games) can be played anytime, anywhere...publishers would be foolish not to fully support a system that can reach both the portable and home markets with just one game.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

DrGAKMAN - I thought Wii was the third pillar? What you are saying about the third pillar is what I would consider Wii 2. It would include much more advanced technology than what is possible with Wii. That would be high definition, head tracking, advanced control beyond motion plus and a serious online infrastucture as possibilities. Wii 2 would have to have enough changes in it to warrant consumers purchasing it. Therefore, Nintendo won't release it until the demand is there, which it isn't even close yet. They have no need to hurry in that respect and have plenty of time to experiment and finalize the system.

Wii HD is a new SKU. This sounds to me like the same thing you are saying in regard to an HDMI port being included in a new hardware revision. All I'm saying is that they could throw in a scaler that would present the games in HD and it wouldn't hurt anything. It wouldn't divide the user base and no changes in programming would have to be made. It would give the Wii longer legs though and serve as an extension to the lifespan of the system. Throw in new colors, Wii Sports & Sports Resort on a single disc and motion plus and you essentially have a new SKU. They wouldn't have to rename the new SKU, it could still be called Wii, but they would just put a label on the box that detailed the upgraded features. I imagine, they would drop the price and phase out the original Wii like they've done with every other hardware they've released.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

DrGAKMAN - I thought Wii was the third pillar? What you are saying about the third pillar is what I would consider Wii 2. It would include much more advanced technology than what is possible with Wii. That would be high definition, head tracking, advanced control beyond motion plus and a serious online infrastucture as possibilities. Wii 2 would have to have enough changes in it to warrant consumers purchasing it. Therefore, Nintendo won't release it until the demand is there, which it isn't even close yet. They have no need to hurry in that respect and have plenty of time to experiment and finalize the system.

Wii HD is a new SKU. This sounds to me like the same thing you are saying in regard to an HDMI port being included in a new hardware revision. All I'm saying is that they could throw in a scaler that would present the games in HD and it wouldn't hurt anything. It wouldn't divide the user base and no changes in programming would have to be made. It would give the Wii longer legs though and serve as an extension to the lifespan of the system. Throw in new colors, Wii Sports & Sports Resort on a single disc and motion plus and you essentially have a new SKU. They wouldn't have to rename the new SKU, it could still be called Wii, but they would just put a label on the box that detailed the upgraded features. I imagine, they would drop the price and phase out the original Wii like they've done with every other hardware they've released.

Sorry, I thought maybe you had read my earlier posts about the HDMI cable.

Basically, it's NOT a hardware update, it's the same hardware, just a new cable that outputs to HDMI and better upscales/upconverts the Wii to beyond 480p. I theorize this based on the fact that the Wii's MultiAV output is different than their previous MultiAV outputs (for SNES/N64/GCN) and has 4 unused pins in the port itself. I'm assuming that Nintendo could release an HDMI cable. Same games, same hardware, slightly better output through a new cable.

The original 3RD Pillar wasn't the Wii, it was the NDS (GCN & GBA being the other 2 pillars) and it was to co-exist alongside both for a time. It also ended up replacing the GBA for Nintendo's portable line and gave a foreshaddowing of what was coming to replace GCN in the console line. Likewise, my theory for another 3RD Pillar coming again is that it would co-exist with the DSi & Wii for a time and eventually replace the DSi as Nintendo's portable focus AND, to go further this time, also replace the Wii since it can also be hooked up like a home console to your TV. Both the DSi & Wii will be "old tech" power/graphics by the time this 3RD Pillar comes out. It's not an initial "next" system (like a DS2 or Wii2), but rather something that's seperate (so as to keep the DSi & Wii ongoing and profitable) that will eventually phase in as the main focus for Nintendo and the industry without brickwalling either the Wii or DSi.

It is a dangerous idea since it means Nintendo would have to spread resources across 3 platforms...but the NDS was also dangerous to Nintendo for the same reasons when it lauched too. The NDS overcame that trouble by offering more (interface wise) than what could be done on either the GCN or GBA. With more power, more interfaces *and* conceptually being a home/portable hybrid, I really don't think Nintendo would have much to worry about when it comes to resources/support though, since there will be a "wanting" for something more for enthusiests and something different for newer players. This would also majorly throw off the competition since they're obviously preparing for a simple "Wii HD" just like everyone else.

In a sense, I guess you could say that this would be the "Wii HD", but I'd like to think that it'd be beyond just that as Nintendo has stated that they need to not only disrupt the industry, but themselves. Plus I don't think they'll want to release any new hardware that dirrectly effects them milking the profitability out of the Wii & DSi...at least not initially (as in early).

I could be wrong though, Nintendo could go back on wanting disruption, rest on their laurels, do what everyone thinks they'll do (release a WiiHD in a traditional sense), brickwall the current Wii by essentially starting over with a new system, ignore the major issues of not being able to transfer WFC saves/WiiShop downloads to this upgraded system, keep an easily piratable DVD format, piss off their expanded audience on Wii, try to satisfy the unsatisfiable "hardly core" with more graphics/power, all while being right back to where they started against the competiton (arms race) and not disrupting anything to stay ahead of them. But I think I'm right...

PS- I am, again, assuming Nintendo will make an HDMI cable to the current Wii to give it "legs" and that they won't have a transfer solution for data from the current Wii to a conceptual "Wii HD" and I could be wrong about both...but even still, I think 3RD Pillar is what they'll go for.

 

[Mithos]

Basically, it's NOT a hardware update, it's the same hardware, just a new cable that outputs to HDMI and better upscales/upconverts the Wii to beyond 480p. I theorize this based on the fact that the Wii's MultiAV output is different than their previous MultiAV outputs (for SNES/N64/GCN) and has 4 unused pins in the port itself. I'm assuming that Nintendo could release an HDMI cable. Same games, same hardware, slightly better output through a new cable.

Please stop this, any LCD/plasma TV already do this.

To gain any positive differences from what already exist, the internal Wii hardware needs update, so that it can internally render 720p and output it.

 

[Gaborn]

Interview with Pachter on KonsoliFIN:



And for NeoGAFfers:

I read a lot of websites, and love reading NeoGAF. It helps me immensely. There are few breaking stories that don’t hit NeoGAF within 30 minutes.

http://blog.konsolifin.net/2009/06/14/600/

<------ hmmmm I wonder....

 

[Grampa Simpson]

@DrGAKMAN

I think Nintendo has disruptive strategies poised, but at the same time, they know that they have the opportunity to get more out of the Wii series without disrupting themselves. I think that we'll see one more generation of console hardware from Nintendo - something to build on what they've done with the Wii and to at the same time compete better in areas where they're weak against MS and Sony - specifically the 15-25 male demographic. That upgrade will include something incredible and innovative, but it will be positioned as an upgrade from the Wii and not as a 3rd pillar.

If they can do this and successfully transition into a new generation (say in 2012) then we won't see another hardware generation from them. Instead we'll see new platforms like the Motion + and the Balance Board. Things that add to what Nintendo will have already delivered to the Wii+, but are designed to disrupt the competition.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Interview with Pachter on KonsoliFIN:

And for NeoGAFfers:

http://blog.konsolifin.net/2009/06/14/600/

I KNEW IT!

What gaming platforms do you currently own and play with - and what games are you currently playing?

I own all platforms, and favor the PS3.

 

[Mrbob]

So when is Nintendo going to fix their stupid friend codes system?

Until then I don't see a huge crossover of 360 gamers to the Wii platform.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Mithos...
Yes the Wii can only do 480p natively because the internal frame buffer isn't big enough for more. Most (not all) HDTV's do upscale helping to make 480p look better on higher resolution screens...however, not all HDTV's do this well enough as evidenced by several complaints here and elsewhere. The HDTV's I've had scale my Wii very well via component, but others don't. And, if you notice in my theory, I said upconvert as well. Now upconverting (like an upconverting DVD player) does require a lil' more hardware beyond just a cable, but it could be done...will they is a whole other question..

Granted, I could be very wrong and Nintendo may not (or can't) do an HDMI cable solution like that...if they don't announce something like it before E3 next year then I know I've been wrong about it.

bmf...
There's several delima's (that a 3RD Pillar strategy would smooth over easier) I think Nintendo needs to deal with before considering an upgraded Wii of any sort:
-how much of an upgrade, a slight internal bump to give the current Wii HD output?
-if it's more of a worthwhile upgrade, then doesn't that basically split the userbase and mean they have to start all over against more entrenched HD competitor's?
-what format would this use...DVD...which surely can't be a future-proof format, let alone all the piracy issues?
-if this thing is coming sooner rather than later, BC with Wii discs should be a priority YET it could be a hinderance to the architecture overall (piracy prevention, the way Wii games handle online gaming, friend codes, the hardware issues, compatibility)
-if it's not going to be BC with Wii discs (GCN/Wii games could still be downloadable/emulatable though) and uses it's own format (holographic storage medium) then it would HAVE to come much later to prevent the outcry of current Wii owners without BC with their games
-Nintendo is going to have to address WiiShop download transfers sooner or later (probably by allowing transfers between systems registered to the same "My Nintendo" account???)
-what about the hand-held front...the DSi can't last forever, this would mean a console & handheld transition would have to be prepared simultaneously...sure, they've done it before, but which one first, which one is a bigger priority, which one needs more resources?

We're doing a lot of what-if's here...and with as little as we know of the future, either way (an expected Wii HD vs an out-of-nowhere 3RD Pillar) is viable. No matter which way they go though, from the above, I can assess that they're going to have to:
#1- ditch hardware BC with Wii disc's (piracy, low capacity format, holds back hardware architecture, etc.)
#2- have a more meaningful hardware upgrade upto or beyond PS360, thus having to start over
#3- delay having to do this for as long as possible for:
A) milking the profitability from Wii as long as possible
B) prevent a bigger backlash from no BC with Wii disc's and giving the Wii a shorter lifespan than the competition

With a 3RD Pillar strategy, basically they're not bound by issue #1, they don't have to worry about starting over since it's a seperate pillar with issue #2 & they don't have to worry so much with when they launch a seperate pillar for issue #3.

There is possibly a less radical (and maybe more traditional) way of doing this. It'd be less of a 3RD Pillar and more of a universal format strategy. Instead of having an all-in-one hybrid console/portable "WiiDS" that can be played on your TV or on it's own in portable form, maybe Nintendo could instead introduce a universal format that plays across both their console & portable lines? They'd still be more bound by the issues of "when" to launch mentioned above, but it would be a less radical approach. 3RD Pillar hybrid may be too radical (both technically & conceptually) for the next-gen, but a universal format strategy could butter it up better for next-next-gen. I mainly lean towards the hybrid since the world is more leaning towards portables.

If it's not going to be a hybrid 3RD Pillar though, then it has to be 2 seperate machines (console & portable), but that can play the same game (holo) cards. This would have to be brought out later (so the technology and R&D can catch up to the idea) which means the Wii (and DSi) would have to last for a while. I still don't know when something like this would come since it'd essentially be a "next-gen" platform. With a 3RD Pillar, it's easier to say when, 'cos really, it could be any time Nintendo felt like it without cutting short DSi or Wii! However, if the concept of being able to play the same games on your "next" Wii and "next" DS catches on (and I think it would for the industry, enthusiests and new players who would all see the possibilities/value in it) then maybe it could be around 2012? By then, people could really be hard-up for better/more Wii/DS experiences than what's capable in their current forms. Technically, 2 systems that have similar architectures and play the same games more catered to their respective outputs (portable screen vs HDTV) is a lot more feasible than an all-in-one hybrid...so maybe I'm wrong about a 3RD Pillar too?

 

[Owzers]

love the star trek gifs!