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[Surface of Me]

For the people that liked Sticker Star, what exactly did you like about it? I'm not even trying to be an ass. I'm honestly struggling to think of any redeeming qualities beyond looking nice in 3D.

It was fun.

 

[Vampirolol]

I'm wondering: maybe you have unlimited normal cards this time, and killing enemies gives you color.
Btw I'm confident, even though I hope we see new and interesting characters.

 

[casiopao]

For the people that liked Sticker Star, what exactly did you like about it? I'm not even trying to be an ass. I'm honestly struggling to think of any redeeming qualities beyond looking nice in 3D.

It fells and play like nice little puzzle adventure game with some humor sprinkle all around the game making it engaging here.

..... I dont have any experience towards older paper mario series though so maybe i am just strange.

 

[ClayKavalier]

Are people speculating that this will be another potential split NX release? The IQ in the screen in the OP is way too good to be 3DS and I saw people making the same comment about Monster Hunter screens thinking that they might actually look that good on NX.

 

[jonno394]

Are people speculating that this will be another potential split NX release? The IQ in the screen in the OP is way too good to be 3DS and I saw people making the same comment about Monster Hunter screens thinking that they might actually look that good on NX.

This is for wii u....

 

[Ansatz]

The success of Captain Toad and Hyrule Warriors in 2014 persuaded them this was a good strategy. If you followed the financial briefings you could see Iwata hinting, in his last few appearances, that this would be the direction for riding out the life of the Wii U and hopefully keeping the existing install base fed. It does seem to have backfired, creating the perception that all we get are spin-offs and budget titles.

The point about PM:CS being low-budget is important here. This is a game that was stuffed into a one-minute segment in the middle of a whole barrage of one-minute segments in the Direct, without a separate trailer of its own or a big spotlight slot like a lot of the big announcements or surprises that fall outside a Direct's time frrame of coverage. (Compare this to how Fire Emblem Fates or Hyrule Warriors were revealed—"Please, look at this.") The expectation is for this to be a minor title, closer to Kirby and the Rainbow Curse/Paintbrush in terms of where it fits. Which is fine; that game turned out well, and even came with a lower sticker price. It is a little sad that Paper Mario is being treated as a fill-the-schedule series, but experimental titles that are charming if not particularly ambitious fit this category well, the category of the slightly lower-cost single-player diversion.

I reckon the game was announced this way to manage expectations, and even so, the reputation of TTYD as a major classic of the GameCube era is so enduring (rightly so, in my view) that we all have this idea that anything less than a marquee system-defining RPG is an insult to the Paper Mario name. View this announcement in context, and it should be clear that this expectation may be too high. The Paper Mario brand means less to Nintendo than it means to us.

My take is that the low key reveal is because the game was leaked, otherwise they would have treated it as a big new announcement. Nintendo has become very aware when it comes to managing fan expectations. Treating something we know about as the main attraction is something they would consciously avoid nowadays.

 

[jqdunn]

truthfully bummed out by how pretty it is considering how similar the gameplay looks to sticker star

don't know what i expected. nintendo loves to break my heart over and over again

 

[squid]

The way Nintendo has handled Mario games this gen is really disappointing to me. While once Nintendo tried to diversify the Mario universe with games like TTYD and Mario sunshine, seems they're now doing the opposite and forcing franchises into this bland, generic NSMB style of game.

No new characters, minimal story, level select/world map, no focus on world building at all. It happened with NSMBU, 3D World and now looks like it's happening with Paper Mario.

I've been happy with most other WiiU takes on their franchises, but really hope they make Mario interesting again on NX.

 

[Instro]

They are making low budget, low effort, asset/engine re-usage, outsourced spin-offs to prop up the 3DS/WiiU as to not look like they have abandoned them while they focus their actual real efforts on NX.

I don't want to believe that Nintendo will be like this once they reveal their new console. I don't want to...

Pretty much, although who knows if what they are doing on the WiiU and 3DS means anything positive for the NX.

WiiU, sure (though not this game).

3DS, you may want to have your memory checked.

Happy Home Designer, Triforce Heroes, Federation Force? I mean not nearly as bad as the WiiU since there is other software releasing, but they've been dumping a few stinkers lately.

 

[astrogamer]

We've come a long way in terms of character designs for Toad.

To think that the original's art director is the director for sticker star (& presumably this game).

 

[Vena]

The success of Captain Toad and Hyrule Warriors in 2014 persuaded them this was a good strategy. If you followed the financial briefings you could see Iwata hinting, in his last few appearances, that this would be the direction for riding out the life of the Wii U and hopefully keeping the existing install base fed. It does seem to have backfired, creating the perception that all we get are spin-offs and budget titles.

This perception exists because we had a holiday of spin-offs, the tail end of 2015 and start of 2016 were spin-offs and residual results of the poor E3 2015 showing, and because some people keep repeating a tired narrative. For the 3DS, the notion goes rather hollow in 2016 as the line-up is shaping up to be considerably better than 2015.

That said, again, this is (regardless of the opinion on the title itself) not a low budget effort of re-used assets and outsourcing. This is a full on Paper Mario with all new assets for HD being made.

Happy Home Designer, Triforce Heroes, Federation Force? I mean not nearly as bad as the WiiU since there is other software releasing, but they've been dumping a few stinkers lately.

What is "the flow of time"? Those are 2015 games. Is the 3DS not allowed to have spin-offs at all? And I don't think many will agree with either of those being stinkers.

 

[WarioFan63]

For the people that liked Sticker Star, what exactly did you like about it? I'm not even trying to be an ass. I'm honestly struggling to think of any redeeming qualities beyond looking nice in 3D.

My favorite part was the museum. It was super fun every time I found a new sticker and Id go to donate it. It made me excited when I found new Thing stickers! I love that kind of flavor text for stuff you collect, like in Pikmin 2.

I really liked discovering the secret doors. I liked messing with the environment stickers. I liked the world map and how some of the levels had secret goals. I liked that some of the levels had some exploring to them. I liked how there were non-standard levels like the Wiggler house or the quiz show! I also liked how there were in-game achievements of sorts and how they had (albeit very minor) an affect on the ending.

I think Im forgetting something, but overall I enjoyed it!

I mean, yeah I'd love to have the older style PM where I get to Tattle everything, but I don't really mind this style either. I've enjoyed all the PM games really, so I'm pretty happy to give whatever they do a shot.

Edit: Oh now I remember! I really liked finding heart pieces!

 

[ClayKavalier]

This is for wii u....

Oh, sorry. OP didn't specify and I saw people comparing it to Sticker Star and just assumed.

 

[SirSwirl]

For the people that liked Sticker Star, what exactly did you like about it? I'm not even trying to be an ass. I'm honestly struggling to think of any redeeming qualities beyond looking nice in 3D.

My earlier post in the thread:

If I may chime in, I think what I like most about Sticker Star is how unique it is. I love all the other Paper Marios, but my reasons for loving Sticker Star are very different from the reasons I love the other 3.

That's what I think makes it special, it's different. I like that I didn't have to worry about grinding or being underleveled. I liked that when I used an attack that sticker would disappear forever. It meant I had to think more about which attack to use in battle, and as a result, it made normal battles in Sticker Star feel more meaningful and important than those of the other Paper Marios. I liked just how many stickers and secrets were littered all over each level, and because you needed certain stickers to progress, exploring felt a lot more important and rewarding in Sticker Star than the others.

Of course, I wouldn't want it to outright replace the traditional Paper Marios, like seems to be happening, but I do feel Sticker Star excels at very different areas from being a very different game. I've always felt the biggest problem with Sticker Star was that it replaced Paper Mario. If it didn't, and was more of a spin off called Sticker Mario, with the traditional games continuing, I think it would be much better received.

I genuinely thought the sticker system was interesting and fun, and I thought the levels were really fun to explore and progress through.

 

[ScientificPizza]

I'm... fine with this? But I just don't need additional gimmicks attached to Paper Mario. Like Paper Mario IS the gimmick.

I'm still def going to play this, though. Even though Sticker Star was the weakest entry in the series it was still pretty solid.

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

My take is that the low key reveal is because the game was leaked, otherwise they would have treated it as a big new announcement. Nintendo has become very aware when it comes to managing fan expectations. Treating something we know about as the main attraction is something they would consciously avoid nowadays.

I don't know about that. For one thing, nothing was leaked about what kind of Paper Mario game this would be, which is the real bone of contention here; for another, Majora's Mask 3D was a fine example of a game that was a widely teased open secret everyone assumed was coming, and they put the announcement front and centre to drum up excitement from the start.

The decision to not bother cutting a full trailer at all that they could release on YouTube after the fact, even a separate one outside the Direct to clarify details about the game for careful observers, is not the kind of thing that is made on short notice in response to levels of Internet hype. It indicates one of two things: either this game is not that far along and they would rather save a full trailer for E3 (but wanted to get the initial announcement through now so it doesn't get drowned in NX-related news), or they just don't want to leave the impression that this is a huge tentpole project rather than a comparatively modest release that is still a ways in the distance. It's not budget, exactly, and it's certainly no smaller or less of a main-line title (whatever series devotees may think) than Sticker Star, but I could see this being targeted for pricing in the Captain Toad/Rainbow Curse range, as mid-tier retail.

For the people that liked Sticker Star, what exactly did you like about it? I'm not even trying to be an ass. I'm honestly struggling to think of any redeeming qualities beyond looking nice in 3D.

I had problems with Sticker Star, but I really liked that you could skip enemies.

 

[Toxi]

Nintendo continues to make me not regret my decision to ignore the Wii U.

We've come a long way in terms of character designs for Toad.

This is just sad.

 

[Ninjimbo]

For the people that liked Sticker Star, what exactly did you like about it? I'm not even trying to be an ass. I'm honestly struggling to think of any redeeming qualities beyond looking nice in 3D.

I liked the battle system a lot. I like inventory management because of my experience with Resident Evil back in the day, so trying to find the most efficient way to dispatch a mob without using a lot of stickers was like crack for me. I experimented with so many combinations and the mobs were forever changing.

The graphics were amazing: colorful, vibrant, spectacular designs all around.

The music was really great. It jazzed up a few familiar melodies and it felt funky which was perfect for the weird little game it is.

I liked being able to choose levels from an overworld. I knew what the objective was. I knew what I had to do. I could jump in and be done and 20 minutes which is absolutely ideal for a portable game. I'm sorry, I really don't want to be cracking my skull on a wall at the bank as I try to figure out which stat I want to max out and spend time wandering around a dungeon for an hour looking for a spot to save at because I ran out of time to play.

Seriously, fuck the RPG elements. Every game has them nowadays and you always equip the new stuff you get because it's always stronger. It's braindead, overdone, and lazy. I'm glad SS got rid of them.

As much as I like TTYD, it's an RPG for babies in the systems department. If you had halfway decent reflexes, you could cheese your way through the entire game easily. What was fun about it was seeing if you had the timing to pull off those secret techniques that got the crowd to give you more stars. The fun comes from the action game elements and not the RPG systems which was run of the mill bs that bogged the game down.

 

[Pancake Mix]

I'll probably like it more than Sticker Star by virtue of it being in HD on my TV instead. I'm ready to give Paper Mario another chance.

So the Wii U lineup, going with Trev's leak (he did not only talk about 3DS) and the Direct info today, for the second half of 2016 is:

Paper Mario: Colo

Spoiler

u

r Splash
Zelda U (cross-gen)


There's a lot of software still coming to 3DS this year but the door is wide open for NX, especially on console. I just hope these are good and they don't shy away from depth in either title. I don't know why Bill said that Paper Mario games have always been action-adventures either. The first two were very simple RPG's, while Super Paper Mario was a hybrid platformer/Adventure/RPG (and my personal favourite actually.)

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

Game looks legit gorgeous.

Yep, there is no doubting that once again Nintendo coming up trumps on aesthetics game looks stunning.

 

[Sloane]

We've come a long way in terms of character designs for Toad.

Sigh. TTYD might very well be my favorite Mario game -- I just don't get why they are so afraid to do something similar again. It's not like the new Paper Mario games are bestsellers or something?

The way Nintendo has handled Mario games this gen is really disappointing to me. While once Nintendo tried to diversify the Mario universe with games like TTYD and Mario sunshine, seems they're now doing the opposite and forcing franchises into this bland, generic NSMB style of game.

So true. Super Mario Sunshine is another great example. It might not have been great but at least they were trying something different.

 

[iBlue]

The game looks fantastic visually but gameplay wise .... Why is so damn hard to make a proper paper Mario like holy fuck yo!

 

[Tookay]

We've come a long way in terms of character designs for Toad.

Hahahahaha.

 

[ASIS]

I thought it looked great

 

[Litri]

I thought it looked great

This + I want the game to be funny. I hope they don't disappoint.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I gave Sticker Star a chance because I thought it looked and sounded great in previews (and I'll still give it that its presentation is top-notch), but oh man was it abysmal gameplay wise. Without repeating what others have said, hopefully Color Splash has learned something from SS, even if so far it seems like story/character wise it'll be the same bland romp.

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

Seriously, fuck the RPG elements. Every game has them nowadays and you always equip the new stuff you get because it's always stronger. It's braindead, overdone, and lazy. I'm glad SS got rid of them.

Itemization is fine if the effects are interesting, and the badge system in PM64/TTYD is an especially good example of how it can be done well.

I think we need to get away from the talking point of "But you can skip enemies and don't have to fight anything because you can't build XP" as something inherently bad, though. Zelda and Metroid both take this approach to enemies, where with the exception of bosses, they are obstacles that only drop replenishments to your resource pool—your life, your ammunition. They are not there for grinding, and character progression happens in more interesting ways, through challenges that feel designed.

I find a Zelda/Metroid-style reward loop a whole lot more satisfying than any XP grind I've ever seen, and with a lot of refinement, an XP-less Paper Mario could pull that off while retaining much of what works about the series and contributes to its identity. I never, ever like encountering a situation in a game that says, "You should consider grinding out more battles to get stronger, walking on and off the screen until the local grunts respawn." No I shouldn't. I should accomplish discrete, well-designed challenges to get stronger. I should explore. I should solve puzzles. I should rethink my battle tactics as I push through mandatory encounters. I should take on optional objectives, perhaps an optional boss. The JRPG Paper Marios already had the right idea by tying level-ups to clear, selectable upgrades (HP, FP, BP) instead of obtuse incremental stat growths. You should be rewarded for finding stat boosters or badges with special effects in the field, something that can be implemented in a system like Sticker Star's stickers or Colo(u)r Splash's cards if the items themselves are interesting and varied enough in their effects and interactions (and a big problem with Sticker Star was that they weren't; the game was full of items that took up a ton of space and could only be used at specific points to which they were matched, instead of as interesting tactical options that you feel pressured into deciding whether to expend or keep).

 

[Sleight of Jam]

I don't get why it's so hard to make a true TTYD sequel.

 

[ScientificPizza]

I don't get why it's so hard to make a true TTYD sequel.

i'd take TTYD HD but that's the pipiest pipe dream

 

[Bots are better than you]

Look, i didn't like Sticker Star, too. And i see that the trailer makes it easy to compare Sticker Star to this.

But you guys could at least wait for some gameplay videos before jumping to conclusion. If it plays like Sticker Star, then you can complain, i might even join you then.
Thing is, the same situation has happend with 3D World, but i think that game turned out really good.

 

[Litri]

Look, i didn't like Sticker Star, too. And i see that the trailer makes it easy to compare Sticker Star to this.

But you guys could at least wait for some gameplay videos before jumping to conclusion. If it plays like Sticker Star, then you can complain, i might even join you then.
Thing is, the same situation has happend with 3D World, but i think that game turned out really good.

I'm with this.

 

[Dunkley]

Honestly when they talked about what Paper Mario is all about in the presentation I realized the dream of a true TTYD successor is long dead.

Although I didn't dislike Super Paper Mario, the prime of the series was from Paper Mario 64 to The Thousand Year Door. That's when I knew Paper Mario, and that's when I loved it.

I'll never forget it. But Nintendo forgot about it a long, long time ago.

 

[Feebastic]

This must be how it felt to diehard Metroid fans when Federation Force was announced.

Except Federation Force isn't based on a precedent that was panned by a large section of the series' fanbase.

 

[Cheeseman Battitude]

Damn, I thought I was looking at pre-rendered cutscenes when I saw this on the Direct.

 

[PKrockin]

I liked the battle system a lot. I like inventory management because of my experience with Resident Evil back in the day, so trying to find the most efficient way to dispatch a mob without using a lot of stickers was like crack for me. I experimented with so many combinations and the mobs were forever changing.

The graphics were amazing: colorful, vibrant, spectacular designs all around.

The music was really great. It jazzed up a few familiar melodies and it felt funky which was perfect for the weird little game it is.

I liked being able to choose levels from an overworld. I knew what the objective was. I knew what I had to do. I could jump in and be done and 20 minutes which is absolutely ideal for a portable game. I'm sorry, I really don't want to be cracking my skull on a wall at the bank as I try to figure out which stat I want to max out and spend time wandering around a dungeon for an hour looking for a spot to save at because I ran out of time to play.

Seriously, fuck the RPG elements. Every game has them nowadays and you always equip the new stuff you get because it's always stronger. It's braindead, overdone, and lazy. I'm glad SS got rid of them.

As much as I like TTYD, it's an RPG for babies in the systems department. If you had halfway decent reflexes, you could cheese your way through the entire game easily. What was fun about it was seeing if you had the timing to pull off those secret techniques that got the crowd to give you more stars. The fun comes from the action game elements and not the RPG systems which was run of the mill bs that bogged the game down.

Paper Mario and TTYD don't reward you with standard RPG loot that just shuffles stats around a little. It rewards you with new options for battle strategies and customization.

- Badges: Often one of a kind new active or passive abilities that are distinct from each other. Even when you do find a badge you already had one of, you can equip both for a doubled effect.
- Star pieces: Trade for badges
- Shine sprites/partner blocks: Partner upgrades mostly add a completely unique new move

Even the straight upgrades, the Super Shoes and such, double the attack power of your jump/hammer and then increase it by 50%. By using such small numbers and going from 2 -> 4 -> 6, the difference in damage FEELS as significant as it should. And besides that, they do have extra features. They serve as keys to environmental blocks and are used in some puzzles. In PM64, you have things like the Ultra Hammer letting you check for star pieces in the floor more conveniently and the Spin Jump having a stronger First Attack, if you can land it.

 

[IrishNinja]

Goddamnit

god

FUCKIN

damnit

why is it so crazy to make a PM RPG with new characters and worlds and shit, now this Strickstar bullshit

Fuck Miyamoto

i mean...it looks great, yeah

but i got a few hours into sticker star and never came back

so...this

 

[cyba89]

I hope they improve the battle system significantly from Sticker Star. That one was just broken. There was no upside to fight a battle because it just costs you stickers and there was no level system or something else to reward you. So it was the best to just avoid every battle in that game.

What hurts most is how great this game looks visually and how bad the gameplay will probably be. The ultimate tease.

 

[WiiRevolution1]

Well...that was...a reveal.

Never thought I'd loathe a Paper Mario game and completely dismiss it but thats how I feel.

At the very least I'm 100% convinced at this point Toad will be in the next Smash...I like Toad. >_>

 

[big_z]

it looks really nice but it would look better if the characters were done in the same cardboard like style the world is made from.

I wont freak out over the battle system yet since we know nothing beyond there being cards.

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

Paper Mario and TTYD don't reward you with standard RPG loot that just shuffles stats around a little. It rewards you with new options for battle strategies and customization.

- Badges: Often one of a kind new active or passive abilities that are distinct from each other. Even when you do find a badge you already had one of, you can equip both for a doubled effect.
- Star pieces: Trade for badges
- Shine sprites/partner blocks: Partner upgrades mostly add a completely unique new move

Even the straight upgrades, the Super Shoes and such, double the attack power of your jump/hammer and then increase it by 50%. By using such small numbers and going from 2 -> 4 -> 6, the difference in damage FEELS as significant as it should. And besides that, they do have extra features. They serve as keys to environmental blocks and are used in some puzzles. In PM64, you have things like the Ultra Hammer letting you check for star pieces in the floor more conveniently and the Spin Jump having a stronger First Attack, if you can land it.

And much of what makes the badge system click is how you obtain them. You don't get the interesting ones by raw grinding but by exploring nooks and crannies, reaching difficult locations, or tackling special challenges like the Pit of 100 Trials—all things that could have interesting equivalents in a Paper Mario with a well-designed overworld regardless of the battle or character progression system. The badges in TTYD stand out as one of my favourite systems in any JRPG because they offer such a range of customization to how you play through the game, and on top of that, the way you acquire them motivates interesting gameplay objectives and scenarios. None of this is out of reach for a game that has even less adherence to JRPG conventions. Sticker Star didn't capitalize on this, but a sequel very well could.

 

[Dorsal Axe]

I wont freak out over the battle system yet since we know nothing beyond there being cards.

Japanese trailer confirmed that there are no experience points. You only receive coins for defeating enemies.

Literally the most broken, ass-backwards, fucked up aspect about Sticker Star, and they've doubled-down on it for this.

Also, no partners.

 

[Mdk7]

Someone enjoyed the Tearaway art direction, LOL.

 

[doemaaan]

Off topic. Is Paper Mario TTYD on eshop? On mobile and can't figure out how to navigate the eshop website. I just want to know how much It is.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

If its a real full rpg with a great story like on the GC.
I have no problem with the art style etc.

Off topic. Is Paper Mario TTYD on eshop? On mobile and can't figure out how to navigate the eshop website. I just want to know how much It is.

There no GC games on eshop.

 

[leroidys]

Off topic. Is Paper Mario TTYD on eshop? On mobile and can't figure out how to navigate the eshop website. I just want to know how much It is.

No, there are no gamecube games on the eshop. In fact, that and the virtual boy are the only Nintendo hardware platforms missing from VC.

 

[watershed]

The artstyle and graphics look great. Add me to the camp that wants a fully featured rpg. I'm worried about Nintendo calling this an action-adventure game. I don't think this series needs to be rpg-lite in order to do well. I think it can have great new characters, 3 party battles, a strong story, and varied locations and still be popular and successful.

 

[Orniletter]

It'll be its own thing by being Sticker Star in HD.

There is a lot of potential in a "Sticker Star done right" game. I always thought the best parts of Paper Mario 1&2 were the adventure game elements (exploring well designed levels, solving puzzles etc.).

IntySys is not dumb, I wouldn't be surprised if we'll see a Awakening -> Fates type jump in quality.

 

[Piers]

Sigh. TTYD might very well be my favorite Mario game -- I just don't get why they are so afraid to do something similar again. It's not like the new Paper Mario games are bestsellers or something?

Paper Mario 3DS was originally going to follow the traditional RPG style of previous games, and when shown to Miyamoto he said it was just a port of the Gamecube game. Maybe he stepped in again with Color Splash, because there is no way Intelligent Systems wouldn't of heard the negative feedback.

But also, it's worth bearing in mind that Mario & Luigi also occupy the RPG seat and I'm confident that this has at least inspired the radical direction Paper Mario has now taken. Two RPGs would presumably be over-saturation in Nintendo's marketing books.

 

[Orniletter]

For the people that liked Sticker Star, what exactly did you like about it? I'm not even trying to be an ass. I'm honestly struggling to think of any redeeming qualities beyond looking nice in 3D.

It has really great leveldesign (absolutely the best in the series), I liked the battlesystem and gameplay in general, most puzzles (obtuse Goat-shit notwithstanding), it looked spectacular for a 2012 3DS game, the soundtrack was great...

So yeah, I guess if the only thing you liked about PM 1&2 was the story/characters, there is nothing for you in SS.

 

[doemaaan]

There no GC games on eshop.

No, there are no gamecube games on the eshop. In fact, that and the virtual boy are the only Nintendo hardware platforms missing from VC.

Well shit. The game isn't exactly cheap online. Guess I'm stuck watching a play through on YouTube or something.