Muffdraul
Member
Yeah. A veritable knee slapper.
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Parappa Voice Actor Leads Petition for PaRappa The Rapper 3 (junkiemonkeys.org)
- Thread starter fvng
- Start date
Yeah. A veritable knee slapper.
Sarcasm aside, I just sort of smile warmly at the cheesiness now and walk away. It's such a basic formula with no real depth and has a should-stay-in-the-90s feel, to a degree.
I'd be curious in what ways they would update the formula if they made a 3.
Why would you do that?
Member
I don't agree... It's basically the foundation of many current rhythm games, a tried and true formula. Plus, in PaRappa, unlike some other rhythm games, you actually make the music with your button presses instead of just doing stuff to the music. Even better, you can get creative and freestyle, giving you bonus points, something that's more or less exclusive to the PaRappa games.
Unless you're not attacking the PaRappa formula and are attacking just the first game (compared to Lammy and PaRappa 2). In that case, I agree that there are some flaws in PaRappa 1, the biggest one is that it's too hard IMO.
Muffdraul
Member
I can only hope to God in heaven that it would meet your sophisticated and discriminating tastes. Derrick's too-- no... that's asking too much.
While I would definitely not say no to some more depth to the gameplay, that's not the entirety of what makes PaRappa special. The absurdity of weird looking 2D characters in a 3D world, the awesome songs with ridiculous lyrics (All I wanna hear is you've come over here, there's no foolin' around with deers!), the sheer hilarity of PaRappa supposedly being this cool rapper dude while looking and sounding like a huge dork 99% of the time - that's what makes the series for me.
I guess it's the way I approach rhythm games, but for me Parappa has four problems compared to my standards as they are today, are as follows:
● Limited variety in actual button flow; for example, none of the interesting flourishes, or swipes, or holds, etc of more modern rhythm games. This variation keeps things interesting and allows a relatively simple concept to gain depth and rhythmic feel.
● Music games must have good music to be truly good music games. I feel like Parappa is just sort of cheesy and dumb (which is partly the intent surely) in an extremely 90s way, but I don't think it particularly makes for tracks I want to keep hearing over and over as I replay. I got tired of it really fast, anyway.
● They all had super limited content, especially when compared to modern rhythm games. Is it because the concept doesn't go particularly far, being as shallow as it is, so you can only drag it on so far? Maybe, but then I'd hope for a Parappa to be priced in the $24.99 range or some such.
● The structure made for some awkward as shit 'rhythm' at times, with weird tosses of "Punch!", "Kick" or whatever the song called for... basically, it wasn't always pleasing to the ear, and it often made the songs sound worse than they may have otherwise been.
Anyway, just my thoughts. I enjoyed it when I first played it, but a year ago when I tried to return I found it almost unplayable. I speculate as to what type of things they would do with a 3.
Muffdraul said:
Hopefully, and maybe at that time you'll learn the art of responding to the points people raise, instead of making rather yawn-inducing sarcastic slights at posters.
Why would you do that?
Member
You should play its sequel/spinoff, Um Jammer Lammy. It has similar "limited variety" in button presses/inputs (your first point) but it improves on all of the other points. Better music, more then twice the content, two play styles, and better rhythm. After playing it, it was very hard for me to go back to PaRappa, even if I do think that game is still good.
Muffdraul
Member
Oh right, your points. i.e. that it's an extremely quirky 15 year old game from a time before rhythm games even existed, but let's hold it up to current standards anyway. Sorry, I thought you were doing your tired schtick of judging from on high, sitting on your throne at the top of Mt. Gamer Olympus. My bad.
I'll just leave this here from the topic that is stickied right now so you can maybe take a third shot and not keep looking foolish:
Evilore said:
My entire point as well is something you clearly didn't even see through your painfully forced snark. My point was that since Parappa the Rapper IS so much a product of its time and DOESN'T hold up to modern standards of the genre (since no where in my comment was implicit that it must, only that it doesn't), I am very much curious to see how they would update a 3rd game in the series.
Anyway, will wait your third attempt not to look silly.
I did play it. It's an improvement but I actually guess I didn't like the music as much as you, because that's what held the game back for me. I didn't really enjoy replaying the music.
But it is definitely a better game, I agree.
Muffdraul
Member
Going out of one's way to point out that a game from 1997 doesn't measure up to 2013 standards would seem to imply that one believes there are at least some games that do. Can you give any examples? (Serious question this time.)
Why would you do that?
Member
There's nothing wrong with looking at an old game with current standards when talking about creating a sequel to said game in current times.
Sure, it's actually an interesting question.
● Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (in my opinion remains probably one of only two or three standard bearers for the genre at the very top of the game, flawless package really).
● Final Fantasy Tactics (I think even visually, it has a style that updates pretty well - in the new iOS version and the PSP version. Gameplay wise, I consider it up to par with the standards of modern games in the SRPG genre in terms of features and overall quality. Of course there are SRPGs I prefer more, but not because of any particular distinction of its place in time.)
● Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee (a game that actually remains unique to this day, and maintained a visual style that doesn't seem outdated at all even now)
● Alundra (still one of the best games of its kind, few if any match it in the genre even now)
● Tomba! (ah man, such a fun game. I really wish one day Sony attempted to revive this for PSN or something)
● MDK (ok not visually, but in all other ways it stacks against modern game design in quality.)
I dunno there's a lot actually. Many of the 3D games of that era are fucking #dead when compared to modern games visually, but gameplay wise they tend to suggest far more trust in the gamer, far more competence over level design and critical UI and gameplay features. Just my take.
Parappa though definitely feels really bad with all the improvements that have been had since, so I was just curious how they'd update 3.
Star Fox 64, Diddy Kong Racing, and Final Fantasy VII too. It's not really the fact that it's from 1997 that keeps it from measuring up to most modern gamers' standards, it's that, being the first of its kind, naturally many other games have built on its foundations and left the mechanics of the original game feeling somewhat archaic.
I don't see how the rhythm genre has evolved in any significant way since PaRappa, the only thing that's changed is the musical note railroad has become more precise, and we got plastic instruments as well as transitioning to licensed music.
It's one thing to say that the genre just doesn't grab you and that the novelty wore off, but to expect any future PaRappa games to innovate on a genre that hasn't seen any real innovation since its inception is silly.
It's one thing to say that the genre just doesn't grab you and that the novelty wore off, but to expect any future PaRappa games to innovate on a genre that hasn't seen any real innovation since its inception is silly.
fvng
Member
I think you've mistaken deliberate silly game design decisions for signs that the game is dated.
The game was always intended to be silly and simple. No need for "can't believe people enjoyed this in the 90s" reaction because then you've missed the point of parappa.
Don't be that guy that doesn't get the punchline of a joke and then complains that the joke wasn't funny.
checkeredknight
Member
Wait... so, the Japanese anime is coming to America this year? But it's different somehow? Or is it a totally new thing? Has anything from it been shown yet? Sorry to ask so many questions... I have completely missed this news apparently.
Well, I'd say Bit Trip Runner is a good example of how rhythm games have evolved. Even though you're still essentially pushing buttons in time to the music to clear the stage, it's in the guise of a platformer which gives it a more fresh feel than if you just watched Commander Video run along while you played with the usual "musical note railroad."
And even then, there's room for improvement - see DJ Max Portable 3 on PSP. It's an extremely basic rhythm game, but they have a mode with a "scratching" mechanic where you can use the analog stick as a sort of turntable to remix the song in different ways. It's a small thing, but it definitely adds a lot to the experience.
No, he's just referring to how they used a different voice in the anime (which makes sense since Dred doesn't speak Japanese.) It's a good thing they're not bringing it over anyways since it's a terrible, lazy show for little kids that has none of the charm from the games.
HolyBaikal
Banned
Well, that would be nothing short of amazing.
I keep looking at the PlayStation All-Stars games and seeing the cast... and then saying "Guh, it's like Super Smash Bros., minus any characters I actually care about."
Then I see PaRappa and realize, "well, a couple characters I actually care about". And that PaRappa is one of the only "Sony games" I actually care about.
PaRappa needs to come back. Because without him I'm forgetting if there's anything remotely close to Sony first party that I like at all.
I keep looking at the PlayStation All-Stars games and seeing the cast... and then saying "Guh, it's like Super Smash Bros., minus any characters I actually care about."
Then I see PaRappa and realize, "well, a couple characters I actually care about". And that PaRappa is one of the only "Sony games" I actually care about.
PaRappa needs to come back. Because without him I'm forgetting if there's anything remotely close to Sony first party that I like at all.
Muffdraul
Member
Well there are obviously some classics on your list (and Camjo's,) many of them among my own favorites. But personally I would never in million years argue that they literally hold up up to current standards.
One thing that makes most of them different from Parappa 1 is that they're polished iterations on existing genres, if not specific games.
● SotN is Super Metroid
● Final Fantasy Tactics is Tactics Ogre
● Alundra is Zelda/Soul Blazer/Gaia etc.
● Star Fox 64 is Star Fox
● FFVII is FF
etc.
Whereas Parappa was the first of its kind.
Whatever. You got me, this was more about me taking umbrage with your condescending harshness towards Parappa 1 than anything else. Parappa was never intended to be anything more a than a silly, goofy, quirky little free wheelin' breeze of a game... your post almost felt like a bully picking on a mentally challenged kid.
friskykillface
Banned
"when i say boom boom yeah, you say yeah yeah boom"
"butter butter butter joins the bowl"
loved the first parappa and wish i had a disc copy
hard as fuck though, same with Lammy. i can't beat those games
i wish a new parappa was made
"butter butter butter joins the bowl"
loved the first parappa and wish i had a disc copy
hard as fuck though, same with Lammy. i can't beat those games
i wish a new parappa was made
checkeredknight
Member
Oh no way, okay.
Yeah, I agree it was very kiddy and felt kinda lazy. It was very cute though. I got my hopes up for a new show there for a second.I thought Dredd was talking about this:
Which had none of the returning voice actors, and changed the characters to 3D even if they were flat in their cartoon.
Even then ...
fvng
Member
Oh no way, okay.
Agreed, It was a cute show. If you're expecting a character study of parappa and the gang you've made a mistake
There's a lot that has evolved in the genre since. The simple variety of approaches into how one presses buttons to the rhythm is only one out of dozens of ways the genre has been enhanced, modified and improved.
I was curious, given the improvements in the genre, exactly what ways Parappa 3 would update while still maintaining its distinctive feel. Because there are a lot of things I can think of that might make it worth a 3rd entry, but I do feel there are aspects that should stay in the 90s as well.
Read the entire thread after that statement of mine and come back to your comment and see if it's still relevant; it's quite clear I "get" what the game is, though, if that's your concern.
Well there are obviously some classics on your list (and Camjo's,) many of them among my own favorites. But personally I would never in million years argue that they literally hold up up to current standards.
One thing that makes most of them different from Parappa 1 is that they're polished iterations on existing genres, if not specific games.
● SotN is Super Metroid
● Final Fantasy Tactics is Tactics Ogre
● Alundra is Zelda/Soul Blazer/Gaia etc.
● Star Fox 64 is Star Fox
● FFVII is FF
etc.
Whereas Parappa was the first of its kind.
Whatever. You got me, this was more about me taking umbrage with your condescending harshness towards Parappa 1 than anything else. Parappa was never intended to be anything more a than a silly, goofy, quirky little free wheelin' breeze of a game... your post almost felt like a bully picking on a mentally challenged kid.
Sure I would agree with your assessment about how Parappa was a sort of first in the console space, being what essentially amounts to a Simon Says in videogame form. (I think there were previous music games though?)
That is probably precisely why I was curious as to how it might be updated in a 3rd game, since imo it needs a lot of refinement to be palatable to modern tastes (and I don't mean, needs more dudebro... I more mean, some polish and depth to be added into the very basic structure).
P.S. Tactics Ogre is Tactics Ogre. Nothing can match my Matsuno love-in, *swoon*
Vomiting.
Redesigns? They just gave him some shading.
I'd like a sequel, it'd probably be downloadable in this era though. I still play Lammy from time to time.
The so-called noodles that you find in spaghetti are sweeter than idols, do damage like machetes.
People knocking Parappa 2's soundtrack are just wrong, all the music is pretty damn great, they even got De La Soul to do the theme song.
It's pretty unfortunate that it wasn't better received, a lot of the improvements it made over the series never got much attention like each song having 4 unique mixes depending on how cool u were rappin' that went beyond just the old squeaks and honks. There was also a bunch of multiplayer modes they added like 2-player co-op/competitive and a "freestyle" rap battle mode that was kinda cool.
I think if Harmo Knight does well it might grab Sony's attention and light a fire under them to make a new Parappa/Um Jammer game.
People knocking Parappa 2's soundtrack are just wrong, all the music is pretty damn great, they even got De La Soul to do the theme song.
It's pretty unfortunate that it wasn't better received, a lot of the improvements it made over the series never got much attention like each song having 4 unique mixes depending on how cool u were rappin' that went beyond just the old squeaks and honks. There was also a bunch of multiplayer modes they added like 2-player co-op/competitive and a "freestyle" rap battle mode that was kinda cool.
I think if Harmo Knight does well it might grab Sony's attention and light a fire under them to make a new Parappa/Um Jammer game.
That actually isn't what he looks like in-game though, this is a better example I think
He's more like cardboard now instead of paper. I don't really mind it.
purnoman3000
Member
I normally despise Kickstarter's and although Sony owns the IP, this needs a Kickstarter haha
.
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DICKS AHOY
Banned
It could just be me but I honestly find the slight amount of thickness he has to make him '3D' really awkward. I prefer the cast as flat, abstract drawings moving around in a 3D-scape like the Paper Mario games than just really squashed 3D characters.Parappa looks pretty much the same in All-Stars:
He's just a bit thicker and clashes with everyone else since he's flat.
I want straight up live action Kanye rapping besides Parappa
- you short minded niggas thoughts is Napoleon
- ni-ni-NIggas Na-NA-Napoleon
- My furs is Mongolian, my ice brought the goalies in
- Fur fur fur- mong- olian!
- I embody every characteristic of the egotistic
- ego-ego-ego-egotistic!
honestly though a new Parappa game with modern collaborations would be fucking hilarious
fvng
Member
That would be amazing
Mic functionality... I can see it now.
(You're sitting on the bus next to some guy playing Vita when...)
Guy: A CHICKEN IN THE KITCHEN IS MAKING ALL THE SOUND, THE CAKE IS DONE WHiLE WE'RE SITTING AROUND!
Also I finally got around to reading that entire interview... Dred really does not know what he's talking about most of the time. I think 90% of it is just him bullshitting (about the cartoon, Superbot's departure, why they didn't use him on Robot Chicken, etc.)