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Passive 3D TV-Gaf: PS3 compatible?

Since my house got broken into, I've been needing a TV replacement. Figured I'd go 3D, but active 3D tv's are expensive, and also are apparently visually worse than passive TV's.

I've got plenty of 3D games, from PC to PS3 and would love to make use of it, but I'm afraid of some sort of... unknown compatibility issues.

Here is the TV in question. Comes with 4 pairs of glasses.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007TEE92K/?tag=neogaf0e-20

I also read that passive 3D isn't 1080p?... If true, why is that?
 

catabarez

Member
From what I read it just doesn't appear 1080p until you put the glasses on. I love my passive 3DTV and it works perfectly with the PS3.

Edit: I have an LG btw.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Passive 3D on home sets is 540p max instead of 1080p. Your source is terribly misinformed.

In order to get it to work it basically interlaces the 1080p image. This halves the resolution.
 
I believe passive sets divide the 3D image along different lines of the resolution so the full 3D image is half the resolution of the display, but the image is displayed all at once. Whereas active uses shutter tech to display a different image every other frame so your eyes take turns seeing an image but never are you actually seeing the full 3D image at once. Some companies refuse to adopt passive because it isn't full HD (yet) but more consumers feel more comfortable with passive tech. Plus, the glasses are cheaper.
 
Passive 3D on home sets is 540p max instead of 1080p. Your source is terribly misinformed.

In order to get it to work it basically interlaces the 1080p image. This halves the resolution.

I've read, some of them are capable of full 1080p for both 2D and 3D images. LG LM6700 model is one of those cases. Is that just bs?

I believe passive sets divide the 3D image along different lines of the resolution so the full 3D image is half the resolution of the display, but the image is displayed all at once. Whereas active uses shutter tech to display a different image every other frame so your eyes take turns seeing an image but never are you actually seeing the full 3D image at once. Some companies refuse to adopt passive because it isn't full HD (yet) but more consumers feel more comfortable with passive tech. Plus, the glasses are cheaper.

I understand that. I just don't see why, lets say, a 240hz tv cant just.. you know..flicker the image back and forth? Isn't that what active glasses do?

Anyway. Still wondering if PS3 3D works on passive. I'd assume so.
 

Mastperf

Member
A new study comparing the two current types of 3D TVs available for sale, active and passive, finds that passive 3D TVs had superior image quality to their active counterparts. I was personally surprised by the finding, since I've found the opposite in my reviews comparing the two types of 3D TVs.
When your own personal experience tells you the opposite, it's usually best to ignore the "study".
 
Passive 3D on home sets is 540p max instead of 1080p. Your source is terribly misinformed.

In order to get it to work it basically interlaces the 1080p image. This halves the resolution.

Not entirely true. You don't get "540p", you get 1920x540. That's a difference. And that's only for one eye, you will get for each eye 540 different rows, and our brain creates an image which is nearly as good as a full 1920x1080 picture. While some would consider this as a disadvantage, it is barely recognisable when watching a movie. All my 3D Blu-rays look absolutely stunning and sharp on my LG 3D TV. Passive 3D has other advantages, compared to active 3D: It is cheaper, the picture is smoother, it does not flicker, ... The article in from Cnet describes it good. Active 3D will die, sooner or later. It is an old technology, and the remaining companies like Samsung will use passive technology in the future, but with 4K displays.
 

vazel

Banned
Passive 3D halves the vertical resolution but can have less crosstalk than active 3D on LCDs/plasmas. When sitting too close to a passive 3D display you can see thin horizontal lines. Then there's the obvious in that passive glasses are much cheaper than active glasses. Up to you what you value most.
 

catabarez

Member
I've read, some of them are capable of full 1080p for both 2D and 3D images. LG LM6700 model is one of those cases. Is that just bs?



I understand that. I just don't see why, lets say, a 240hz tv cant just.. you know..flicker the image back and forth? Isn't that what active glasses do?

Anyway. Still wondering if PS3 3D works on passive. I'd assume so.

The flicker done by the active is in the glasses, not the tv.

Yes passive works on PS3 as I said before.
 
Passive 3D halves the vertical resolution but can have less crosstalk than active 3D on LCDs/plasmas. When sitting too close to a passive 3D display you can see thin horizontal lines. Then there's the obvious in that passive glasses are much cheaper than active glasses. Up to you what you value most.

I have a 42 inch TV and the distance between my eyes and the display is usually 1,6 meters, and I do not see any lines at all.

PS: 3D works great with Blu-rays on the PS3, but some PS3 games are reducing details / resolution when they are displayed in 3D, which does not look too good. But this is only because the PS3 is sometimes not powerful enough for 3D and full details / resolution and has nothing to do with the TV. I wasn't very impressed by Killzone (less details/resolution) and Crysis 2, but Arkham City, Motorstorm Apocalypse, Uncharted 3 and Assassin's Creed 3 looked good. I expect Nextgen games to look considerably better in 3D because of the more powerful hardware.
 

catabarez

Member
Doesn't the TV flicker and the glasses sync up with the flicker to show the left image when the left eye is on, and then show the right image when the right one is on? Otherwise how would it work?

Sorry, missed that.

Maybe I'm just trippin' and remembering it wrong.

The technologies are totally different between active and passive and I believe that the way passive TVs are handling it looks much better than active. There will be no incompatibility issues with a passive TV (except maybe 3D youtube videos cuz I cannot figure out how to get it to work)
 

vazel

Banned
Gemüsepizza;39191636 said:
I have a 42 inch TV and the distance between my eyes and the display is usually 1,6 meters, and I do not see any lines at all.
Probably only an issue worth mentioning for PC monitors where people sit closer to the screen. Here's an article that shows what this looks like.
 

Afrikan

Member
If you are worried about price...yet still would like to get an Active 3D set. And if its mainly for Gaming...Look into some 720p 3D sets.

I have 42" LG Plasma for the bedroom that I got for $400 on a sale at Frys awhile back. Heck of a deal at the time, and it came with an extra pair of 3D LG Glasses ($70 worth)

since the PS3 limits its 3D at 720p, I figured what the heck....since I wanted it mainly for 3D gaming at the time.

Also since most of TV HD programming is 720p and 1080i, I figured I'd be fine as well.

only thing you would miss out on is 1080p BluRay, or 1080p gaming...although for some reason, my PS3 considers this TV as a 1080p for some reason.
 
Thanks for all the input. Was hoping for more time to make a selection, but my wife is tired of not having a TV. Gotta go buy one tomorrow, and I'm not even sure she'll let me spend much on it. =[
 
If you are worried about price...yet still would like to get an Active 3D set. And if its mainly for Gaming...Look into some 720p 3D sets.

I have 42" LG Plasma for the bedroom that I got for $400 on a sale at Frys awhile back. Heck of a deal at the time, and it came with an extra pair of 3D LG Glasses ($70 worth)

since the PS3 limits its 3D at 720p, I figured what the heck....since I wanted it mainly for 3D gaming at the time.

Technically that's not entirely correct, because you can watch 3D-Blu-rays at 1080p on the PS3. The PS3 has a HDMI signal processor (and almost all TVs too) which limits bandwidth to a 1080p 3D picture at 24fps. That means current TVs are not able to display games at 1080p in 3D with 30 or more fps. That's why PS3 games can not be displayed in much more than 720p when 3D is activated.

Also since most of TV HD programming is 720p and 1080i, I figured I'd be fine as well.

only thing you would miss out on is 1080p BluRay, or 1080p gaming...although for some reason, my PS3 considers this TV as a 1080p for some reason.

It is a 1080p display. The 2D resolution is 1920x1080, that's full HD. The resolution is only reduced when you are watching 3D content, but technically you are not missing out on picture information. You won't see a 1920x1080 picture with one eye, only a 1920x540 picture. But because you have two eyes which receive a different picture each at the same time, our brain puts them together to a 1920x1080 picture.
 

Afrikan

Member
Gemüsepizza;39192860 said:
Technically that's not entirely correct, because you can watch 3D-Blu-rays at 1080p on the PS3. The PS3 has a HDMI signal processor (and almost all TVs too) which limits bandwidth to a 1080p 3D picture at 24fps. That means current TVs are not able to display games at 1080p in 3D with 30 or more fps. That's why PS3 games can not be displayed in much more than 720p when 3D is activated.



It is a 1080p display. The 2D resolution is 1920x1080, that's full HD. The resolution is only reduced when you are watching 3D content, but technically you are not missing out on picture information. You won't see a 1920x1080 picture with one eye, only a 1920x540 picture. But because you have two eyes which receive a different picture each at the same time, our brain puts them together to a 1920x1080 picture.

yeah I meant 3D Gaming on the PS3 is limited to 720p, but thankx for pointing that out.

as far as your second response....this is the TV I have

it says the native resolution is 1024 x 768. So I'm still confused.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Maybe it's just my imagination or maybe it's just me, but it feels like i have more issues with eye strain when I'm using active 3D over using passive 3D.
 
yeah I meant 3D Gaming on the PS3 is limited to 720p, but thankx for pointing that out.

as far as your second response....this is the TV I have

it says the native resolution is 1024 x 768. So I'm still confused.

Hm it seems that this particular model does indeed not have a 1080p display, maybe your TV can scale it down somehow? But I guess it's not that bad, as you said, most games and TV channels do not display 1080p.
 
passive 3d is not worse than active and is in 540p,

This comes from someone that has a passive 3d tv

540p does not exist, and I don't like this term because it implies the resolution is far below 720p. Passive 3D is more like 1080i. The difference is, it displays all lines at the same time, but you can see only one half with the one eye and one half with the other eye. That means it is superior to 1080i because it does not flicker. Passive 3D is imo something between 1080i and 1080p.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Gemüsepizza;39193711 said:
540p does not exist, and I don't like this term because it implies the resolution is far below 720p. Passive 3D is more like 1080i. The difference is, it displays all lines at the same time, but you can see only one half with the one eye and one half with the other eye. That means it is superior to 1080i because it does not flicker. Passive 3D is imo something between 1080i and 1080p.
The idea behind using the 540p moniker is that it's showing 1080x540 pixels progressively. It doesn't necessarily imply that the resolution is below 720p (that would be 850x640 or something like that).
 
I have a 42" passive 3D Vizio set. The 3D works just fine with my PS3. Played all of Arkham City in 3D. The most impressive game to use it that I've seen has been Super Stardust.
 

Pachinko

Member
The passive Vs active arguement only gets even more confusing when you learn how the 3DTV standard was even implemented in the first place.

HDMI 1.4 is essentially just the 3d tv spec- with it there is bandwidth available for for what amounts to a 120hz option and a 48hz option. At 120hz , resolution is capped at 2560X720, essentially 2 frames displayed side by side (this is the more common method , I'm unsure how top/bottom 3d works, I guess it would run at 1280X1440?) , each frame is intended for 1 eye and is a 1280X720 image, the active glasses work in combination with the television to black out either the left or the right eye 60 times a second , hence the 120hz. Within this field of resolution you can place varying sizes of images but it will just get scaled into each eye's view. For gaming, some special effects don't display so well in 3d so the end up getting turned off and while 3d 720p isn't quite as many pixels to draw as a full HD image , it's still obviously 2X the pixels required normally so it's harder for many games to maintain their frame rate and a broken framerate in a 3d game can cause all sorts of issues with synching that can lead to ghosting and other problems. This is why the best looking 3d on console right now tends to be games that run at 60fps in 1080p, since fullHD is actually a bit more pixels then 720p3d is , it's only up to coding the engine to run at 2 slightly different angles to optimize framerate. This is why games that run at 30fps /720p have no choice but to drop down the resolution some more. You could have full resolution but it'd run at 15 FPS which no one wants. So details get snipped out and resolution is cut down.

The second mode hdmi 1.4 has for 3d is the 48 hz mode- this allows for a full HD image in 3d running at 24 fps. Sadly, no matter how good your computer is , this framerate is capped because of the limits of hdmi 1.4 bandwidth, I imagine it could exceed this in scenarios where sound wasn't required but I haven't looked into that. What this means is although you get the substantial resolution increase of 720p- 1080p (900K pixels up to 2.1MPixels-and for 3d you've got 3820X1080 being rendered) the framerate sacrifice makes it not worth using for gaming. This is an issue I've noticed playing PC games in 3D, a good 3d monitor in pc tends towards the Full HD size but if you decide to render the game in 1080 p, it just gets downscaled to 720p by the 3d driver which gives you free AA but makes text look like shit. So instead you run the game at 720p for added performance and less scaling, now your monitor just has to blow up the final image a bit giving it an ever so slight blur.

Finally, if you decide to use passive 3dtv, there is no rapid switching between the side by side 3d. Instead the software displaying the 3d on the screen is simply displaying the left eye and right eye side of the 2560X720 image on top, almost like folding a sheet of onion skin paper in half from top to bottom. Passive 3d glasses work the same as the ones you get at the theater , light waves travel horizontally and vertically and each lens blocks one of the 2 , while the other lens blocks the other. The same software that has folded the image into itself has also made sure each layer is only putting out light in the way the lens will see it. I'm sure it's a very complicated process from an engineering/programming perspective.

Either way, because of how this works and the fact that you aren't at a giant theater screen with a likely 2000X4000 projector and are instead at home with your 1920X1080p television, there's simply not enough pixels on the screen to display every pixel , to compensate it interlaces the image, interlacing is the process of displaying 50% of the lines at any given time but over the time period of a full second , the image is showing 50% then the other 50% in rapid fire , this is how almost all televisions displayed in image up until around the year 2000 when progressive scan and edtv/hdtv started becoming a thing. So while an active shutter allows the tv to display the full 1920X1080 image by blocking 1 eye, then blocking the other eye to give you the other 1920X1080 image, passive technology for the most part has to compesate for both your eyes seeing the tv at all times, so it's flipping between layers at 120hz and the odd lines are being sent out as light visible only to your left eye while the even lines are being sent out as being visible only to your right eye or whatever, because of this the technical resolution is going to get halved but the functional resolution is still almost the same as the real thing , most people won't be watching a 3d movie or playing a 3d game and pause it just to find faults.

The problem I see after this big huge dissection for the OP in particular is that on the PS3 most of the games are running sub HD to achieve their 3d graphics (stardust being a notable exception) so you've got a game that's rendering at say 640X480, that's being stretched to fit on a 1280X720 window which is then going to get scaled up to 1920X1080 pixels for the tv screen to show it and in turn get downscaled to 1920X1080i to fit within the parameters of the passive 3d , it's going to look blurrier most likely and having that much scaling going on will undoubtedly add some microseconds of lag if you're concerned about that sort of thing.

But at the end of the day the choice really comes down to price more then anything else, nearly negligible differences to all but the biggest technophiles out there and frankly the ps3 isn't strong enough to do real good 3d gaming for the triple A releases anyway so I'd say you're perfectly safe to jump into the passive market unless you really hate input lag.
 
Go passive, I got a Sony Active 3DTV and the ghosting was terrible. You had to be sitting directly in front of the screen for optimal visuals. I did my research after the fact took it back and got this TV on black Friday: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004OVEVP6/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00

Its Passive, damn near no ghosting, I can sit on the side and have no issues. Glasses are cheap so you wont go broke buying glasses and it has a kick ass 2d to 3d mode. Very happy with my passive 3DTV. Oh and all this 540p talk is trash...the visuals are stunning when i watch IMAX 3D movies or anything for that matter. Wipeout, Uncharted 3, and a host of other games on my PS3 look damn good in 3D. I guess I am talking about my TV now not sure about the Vizio
 

Loofy

Member
Finally, if you decide to use passive 3dtv, there is no rapid switching between the side by side 3d. Instead the software displaying the 3d on the screen is simply displaying the left eye and right eye side of the 2560X720 image on top, almost like folding a sheet of onion skin paper in half from top to bottom. Passive 3d glasses work the same as the ones you get at the theater , light waves travel horizontally and vertically and each lens blocks one of the 2 , while the other lens blocks the other. The same software that has folded the image into itself has also made sure each layer is only putting out light in the way the lens will see it. I'm sure it's a very complicated process from an engineering/programming perspective.

Either way, because of how this works and the fact that you aren't at a giant theater screen with a likely 2000X4000 projector and are instead at home with your 1920X1080p television, there's simply not enough pixels on the screen to display every pixel , to compensate it interlaces the image, interlacing is the process of displaying 50% of the lines at any given time but over the time period of a full second , the image is showing 50% then the other 50% in rapid fire , this is how almost all televisions displayed in image up until around the year 2000 when progressive scan and edtv/hdtv started becoming a thing. So while an active shutter allows the tv to display the full 1920X1080 image by blocking 1 eye, then blocking the other eye to give you the other 1920X1080 image, passive technology for the most part has to compesate for both your eyes seeing the tv at all times, so it's flipping between layers at 120hz and the odd lines are being sent out as light visible only to your left eye while the even lines are being sent out as being visible only to your right eye or whatever, because of this the technical resolution is going to get halved but the functional resolution is still almost the same as the real thing , most people won't be watching a 3d movie or playing a 3d game and pause it just to find faults.
It doesnt work that way. Youre getting half the lines in the left eye(left stereo image), and half the lines in the right eye(right stereo image). And youre getting them at the same time to get the 3D image. They dont alternate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film-type_patterned_retarder
 
Sorry to hear you had a break-in. PS3s are 3D compatible, no matter what technology the display uses. A 3D signal is a 3D signal.

There is no such thing as 540p. Passive 3DTVs split the vertical lines. The effective resolution of passive 3D is 960x1080 for each eye. Total resolution is still 1920x1080. Both eyes get 1080 horizontal lines.

Passive 3D has battery-free glasses because the lenses are polarized to produce the 3D effect. Each eye gets half the picture all the time. Active 3D requires the glasses to synchronize with a transmitter and shutter the lenses every frame. Each eye gets the whole picture half the time.

I personally have found 3D effects to be stronger with passive 3D, but try turning your head to the side (as if lying down). Goodbye, 3D image. Active 3D looks clearer and allows the image to be seen no matter how you view the display, but some feel as though they're wearing sunglasses while watching.
 
There is no such thing as 540p. Passive 3DTVs split the vertical lines. The effective resolution of passive 3D is 960x1080 for each eye. Total resolution is still 1920x1080. Both eyes get 1080 horizontal lines.
Both are possible I suppose, but most I know of are split horizontally and each eye gets 1920x540.

This is a test image I made shortly after getting my passive set (E3D420VX). If I view it at 100% size, I can wear the glasses and one eye sees "I AM A PLANT" in red while the other sees "I AM AN ANIMAL" in blue.
 
Sorry to hear you had a break-in. PS3s are 3D compatible, no matter what technology the display uses. A 3D signal is a 3D signal.

There is no such thing as 540p. Passive 3DTVs split the vertical lines. The effective resolution of passive 3D is 960x1080 for each eye. Total resolution is still 1920x1080. Both eyes get 1080 horizontal lines.

Most TVs actually use 1920x540, not 960x1080. But you are right that there is no defined standard "540p", and that if you look at the pictures with both eyes, you will see 1080 lines. Here is a website with further information:

http://us.fpr3d.com/index.jsp

I personally have found 3D effects to be stronger with passive 3D, but try turning your head to the side (as if lying down). Goodbye, 3D image. Active 3D looks clearer and allows the image to be seen no matter how you view the display, but some feel as though they're wearing sunglasses while watching.

This is not entirely true, with passive 3D you do not have to care about head position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpufphuP_ls

http://us.fpr3d.com/why-fpr-3d/3d-glasses/no-blackout.jsp
 
Both are possible I suppose, but most I know of are split horizontally and each eye gets 1920x540.

This is a test image I made shortly after getting my passive set (E3D420VX). If I view it at 100% size, I can wear the glasses and one eye sees "I AM A PLANT" in red while the other sees "I AM AN ANIMAL" in blue.
Huh. First I've heard of that. The handful of tvs I've tested showed vertical line separation.
Gemüsepizza;39195283 said:
This is not entirely true, with passive 3D you do not have to care about head position.
*edit* which explains why I've experienced this.
 
Passive is certainly easier on the eyes with a brighter image and less flicker. However, the downside is the halved vertical resolution which is pretty obvious (looking like scanlines), especially on larger screens.

So, ultimately I'd say Active is better if you can cope with the flicker and it doesn't cause headaches. Otherwise Passive might be the only option.
 
Passive is certainly easier on the eyes with a brighter image and less flicker. However, the downside is the halved vertical resolution which is pretty obvious (looking like scanlines), especially on larger screens.

Like I said, I sit 1,6 meters away from a 42 inch display, and I do not see any scanlines. And I guess most people who are using bigger screens do have much greater distances between their TV and their sitting position. The halved resolution is only true for one eye. But normaly we watch TV with both eyes, and that way we see the full resolution of 1920x1080. 3D does work similar, you will not see a 3D effect with one eye only. But that does not matter because we use both eyes, and I see nobody complaining about that.

Huh. First I've heard of that. The handful of tvs I've tested showed vertical line separation.

Which TV was this? I don't know any passive 3D TV which does halve the horizontal resolution.

*edit* which explains why I've experienced this.

I don't know why you think you have experienced this, when it's obviously not true.
 

B-Dex

Member
I've tried both and have to say if there is a difference I couldn't really tell and the passive had less crosstalk going on.

YMMV.

(My own TV is active with shutter glasses)
 
I sit a little further back from my 42" and at first I could see the lines in big areas of the same color (like the whites and grays at the back of GAF). I was kind of worried about that becoming too annoying, but instead I seem to have gotten so used to them I don't even notice them anymore.

As for the effect of the halved resolution: I've found it mostly to be a problem with small text. Game characters/worlds or filmed 3D content seem fine. Mostly this means I jack up the text/HUD size in games if possible.
 

vazel

Banned
Gemüsepizza;39195488 said:
Like I said, I sit 1,6 meters away from a 42 inch display, and I do not see any scanlines. And I guess most people who are using bigger screens do have much greater distances between their TV and their sitting position. The halved resolution is only true for one eye. But normaly we watch TV with both eyes, and that way we see the full resolution of 1920x1080. 3D does work similar, you will not see a 3D effect with one eye only. But that does not matter because we use both eyes, and I see nobody complaining about that.
Each eye is getting its own perspective though. If you were getting the effect of a full 1080p image then people wouldn't report issues with the readability of fine text or scanline-type artifacts.

If you search the reviews of this passive 3D monitor for 'text' you'll see readability in 3D mode as a common complaint. That shows me that there is definitely drawbacks to halving the vertical resolution for each eye.
 

Mastperf

Member
Go passive, I got a Sony Active 3DTV and the ghosting was terrible. You had to be sitting directly in front of the screen for optimal visuals. I did my research after the fact took it back and got this TV on black Friday: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004OVEVP6/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00

Its Passive, damn near no ghosting, I can sit on the side and have no issues. Glasses are cheap so you wont go broke buying glasses and it has a kick ass 2d to 3d mode. Very happy with my passive 3DTV. Oh and all this 540p talk is trash...the visuals are stunning when i watch IMAX 3D movies or anything for that matter. Wipeout, Uncharted 3, and a host of other games on my PS3 look damn good in 3D. I guess I am talking about my TV now not sure about the Vizio
You're judging active based on the Sony tv that did a poor job. If you want active done right, you look at plasma. Sitting at the side on an lcd is a terrible idea either way with their poor viewing angles.
 
vazel said:
then people wouldn't report issues with the readability of fine text or scanline-type artifacts.
Yeah, text or other very small icons are definitely the lowpoint. Before getting my set I was making some sample images I could test on 3DS. Below I've put together the cropped bit of a World of Warcraft screen I used as a base, and with it the simulations of what it could look like splitting the rows between eyes.
Image10.jpg

But given the TV is a larger and higher resolution screen than what I was using for that original screenshot anyway, making the text/interface larger goes a long way to making it less of a problem.
Image16.jpg
 

gkryhewy

Member
I love my LG passive set. Typically don't leave 3D on for games, however, as it's never worth the performance tradeoff IMO.
 

Bowler

Member
Ive tried both the LG 6700 Passive and now own a samsung D7000 Active.


the passive lg advantages:

Lightwight glasses.
easier for people who already wear glasses.
off angle viewing is better
screen is brighter.

Samsung 7 series Advantages

Picture is sharper
Picture is clearer
More range of depth (going into the tv and coming out of the TV)
Less jaggies

If your room is set up with wide angle viewing i say Passive, as the sammy drops drastically as you go off angle. If you want the absolute best 3d depth, and picture, then active is what you want.
 
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