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PCGamesN: "Why I'm uninstalling Windows 8"
- Thread starter alexandros
- Start date
Windows 8 is quite simple. Use the side menus. Left bar for app switching, top bar and bottom bar for specific app functions, right bar for common functions. If someone needs something they will try them all until they understand after a while. Just like people learn that Print, Print Preview, and Page Setup are in the File menu. That doesn't make much sense to someone who has never used a computer before, but that person would go through all the menus until they find it. Same here. Except now, it is forced consistency throughout the OS, not just based on the developers adherence to standard UI design. For any app, if you want to print something, use the charms bar and do it the same way for every single app, if you want to change a setting, use the charms bar, the same for every single app. It isn't difficult. It is a simple concept. Same as I have my menu bars hidden in my browser and bring them up when I want to use them, these menus are accessed on demand. Really, really simple.
I think my opinion(and many others) on windows 8 can be summed up by this gif someone tweeted a few minutes ago
https://twitter.com/blunt_182/status/240918100093046784
https://twitter.com/blunt_182/status/240918100093046784
Silly.Mikey
Banned
I agree 100% with everything he said. I hated it within 10 minutes of trying it. Kept it about a week and took that garbage off.
Edit: I agree that new stuff needs to be learned (or get used to) but i don't remember the last time an OS made me so angry. I didn't mind learning Mac OS, or my phone OS, or even windows7 and Linux, but 8 just made me angry for some reason. Its not as much the "getting used to it" part for me as much as it is that it looks like it was made by amateurs. It comes off as MS trying to be something they clearly aren't.
Edit: I agree that new stuff needs to be learned (or get used to) but i don't remember the last time an OS made me so angry. I didn't mind learning Mac OS, or my phone OS, or even windows7 and Linux, but 8 just made me angry for some reason. Its not as much the "getting used to it" part for me as much as it is that it looks like it was made by amateurs. It comes off as MS trying to be something they clearly aren't.
Diprosalic
Banned
i honestly don't get the hate. been working on 8 for a few weeks now and everything is pretty much great and very snappy. everything can be done the same way as before plus metro which i don't use a lot.
Everything put together, around 30-40 frequently. Do you want me to start making a list?
Well, I don't use the All Programs thing at all. I have around 10 pinned to the taskbar and around 20 pinned to the start menu. The Metro start screen is a pretty big downgrade, especially since I use the start menu jumplists a lot. A lot a lot.
There's also the fact that they killed drag and drop between applications in Metro. So I can't drag an icon to pin it to the start screen, nor can I drag a search result off to a desktop application. Pretty severe regressions.
They also killed ClearType in Metro, which means text in Metro apps looks fugly. Fugly fugly fugly fugly.
1. Classic Shell overrides the Windows key and makes it bring up the classic shell start menu.
2. When you boot up the computer, it will display the metro menu for a quick second, but then it will load to the desktop.
Classic shell, when installed, will fully integrate itself into Windows 8 and will be the dominate start menu.
You can also have three styles of start menus, the windows 95 menu, the XP menu and the Windows Vista/7 menu.
It's really the perfect option for people who can't get used to or don't like Metro, but still want to use Windows 8. You also still have access the new search and metro screen via the charms bar on the right side of your screen.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Honestly, i think it would have gotten a much better response had they simply called it Windows 7 Light or something.
But the fact that its kinda being placed as a successor to 7 (and 7 being so good) is the huge part of the problem imo.
Just imagine for example Halo3 ODST being called Halo4. Just a little name change but a huge backlash. People expect a lot more out of the main numbers or sequels.
Haunted
Member
oh myI think my opinion(and many others) on windows 8 can be summed up by this gif someone tweeted a few minutes ago
https://twitter.com/blunt_182/status/240918100093046784
chickdigger802
Banned
Do those people really need to mess with metro though? I'm not getting why the workflow would change much. You have all your needed programs open. you alt tab or w/e between programs or click on the window. What changed?
nothing
Does windows 8 enterprise still have metro?
Agree 100% with everything DopeyFish has said.
Interface quality is not a faith issue or debate club material. It's 90% science and just 10% visual art. It takes one casual glance at Outlook 2010 to tell that, if there ever was anyone at Microsoft who took UI design seriously, they have given up long ago.
Interface quality is not a faith issue or debate club material. It's 90% science and just 10% visual art. It takes one casual glance at Outlook 2010 to tell that, if there ever was anyone at Microsoft who took UI design seriously, they have given up long ago.
It all just reminds me sooo much of the damn x360 dashboard, which they've been screwing with for years, again and again and again.
Win8 seems to be designed for a touch interface- it's very confusing for consumers to see that shit on a regular pc. It pisses them off, even if they haven't even used the OS yet.
M$, please read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Innovation3D.png
Win8 seems to be designed for a touch interface- it's very confusing for consumers to see that shit on a regular pc. It pisses them off, even if they haven't even used the OS yet.
M$, please read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Innovation3D.png
Not just the gaming community but Okay
It is terrible. You're learning by trial and error. Manuals exist to instruct users how to operate things. You think needing a manual to learn something complex is a failure? Why not throw away all books, fire all teachers, do away with language, and just grunt and point at rocks all day? It's more intuitive, after all. You absolutely cannot learn to fly a plane without proper instruction. You absolutely cannot learn to use many, many real-world computer applications without proper instruction.
If you want to draw some imaginary line where you're only talking about things that most users will use - such as Facebook and Metro applications, then constrain your FUD to those applications and those people. They will be fine after a 2 minute explanation of how to do things. They all managed to figure out their iPhones, which were completely different from what they had used in the past.
Either you're talking about UI in general - in which case you're just wrong about your universal rule that needing a manual implies failure - or you're talking specifically about Windows 8's new UI and how users will deal with it - in which case you're making a mountain out of a mole hill in order to feed some personal hate you feel toward the new UI.
No you didn't. Not for any definition of the word "master". A 4 year old isn't going to be able to read the output let alone understand the logical implications of what it says. If you really want to claim that you hopped up on the chair, booted up the PC, and started calling hex2bin and knew why when you were 4 fucking years old without anyone explaining things to you because it was all so intuitive, then IWannaSeeTheReceipts.gif
You want every screen of every program to contain all information needed to thoroughly explain every action the user could possibly perform? And you want it to be simple and obvious? Absolutely ridiculous. How would you design Photoshop's interface? I dare you to make an interface for it that lets you do everything Photoshop lets you do and explains it all in a simple way so a user - a user who would be confused by Windows 8 - can sit down in the middle of someone else's session and do any possible thing Photoshop is capable of.
The rest of your post is continued prevarication about some imagined failing of Windows 8 to live up to some ideal that you - the great 4-year old master of computers who is somehow confused by Metro - define. An ideal that is inconsistent in definition, equally missed by every UI ever, somehow only applied to Windows 8, and fundamentally impossible to achieve.
You don't like Window 8's new UI. Don't use it.
You don't think others will like it. They don't have to use it either.
You think it's bad. Metro is no worse than any phone or tablet UI. The desktop is no worse than Windows 7.
You think it's bad that there are "2 layers". You can choose which layer you want and ignore the other.
There is absolutely no objective argument to make to the contrary. Everything you need to do everything you need to do is there. Nothing is "buried". Hell, the desktop UI is vastly improved just for giving us the damned up folder icon again. I'll probably install a start menu replacement because I like the start menu, but that's not a UI deficiency, that's my personal preference.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
So... you're saying Windows should come with a manual on how to use it?
Pretty disingenuous argument to make, given an iphone has a touchscreen with icons you press to make things happen and a single button on the entire front that always returns you to 'home', whereas Windows 8 has magical invisible things you wave a mouse at the corners / sides of the screen to make appear
Pretty disingenuous argument to make, given an iphone has a touchscreen with icons you press to make things happen and a single button on the entire front that always returns you to 'home', whereas Windows 8 has magical invisible things you wave a mouse at the corners / sides of the screen to make appear
I still can't get over the fact that Microsoft, after basically missing an entire generation of phones/tablet experience, thinks they can come in and immediately merge the desktop/tablet experience on their first go-around.
Not even Apple were brazen enough to try and pull off such a move - their 'iOS-ification' of OSX is happening much, much slower.
Not even Apple were brazen enough to try and pull off such a move - their 'iOS-ification' of OSX is happening much, much slower.
Windows 8 tablets will also have a single button on the entire front that always returns you to home. People who cannot learn how to use side gestures and corner points will also make do with not ever needing to switch between Desktop and Metro. You think you were born with the knowledge to use Windows 7? Plenty of people still need help using older versions of Windows from time to time and they ask people around them.
They're going to get criticism whether they try or not, only question is whether each individual person cares which path they took.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
That's great, and irrelevant to a topic about Windows 8 not being that great on the PC.
It actually sort of supports that viewpoint in fact.
chickdigger802
Banned
idk how y'all relatives work, but i've gotten many phone calls from relatives of all ages to figure out certain specific functions on their iphones and/or ipads (and me explaining that no, ipad can't save ppts from emails lol).
And trying to explain how itunes work...
win 8 is ok stuff.
And trying to explain how itunes work...
win 8 is ok stuff.
You were the one who brought up the hardware.
Windows 8 PCs also have a single button that returns you to home
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
What? Why wouldn't ipad be able to save powerpoints?
Mudkips, not only am I correct and you are wrong about Win8. You are also quite wrong about me and my capabilities as a child.
I did have a good comprehension of what's was doing when using DOS at the age of 4. That's not to say I didn't make mistakes, but I quickly figured out everything I did wrong and things I could do and should not do.
Connected to BBS networks at the age of 7 using a 300 baud modem, connecting to the Internet at the age of 10 with a lynx browser while using a 2400 baud modem I acquired when my dads company liquidated... Installing windows 3.1 (and then 3.11) when they first came out, upgraded versions of dos.
I learned all the inner workings of a PC as a child, too. Did PC upgrades (with what I could get my hands on) from EDO memory (asking a PC store clerk for 2 MB of EDO ram must have been pretty mind bending from the dudes perspective) to multiple floppy disk drives. I was kind of limited as a child due to not having income, but I still was able to choose relevant upgrades (always wished I could upgrade from that sad 256 KB VGA card but could never afford it)
I assure you, I knew what I was doing. DOS was all trial and error. (More like trial and success) PC work was all done with assistance from the motherboard manual . I could deconstruct and reconstruct a PC by age 11.
Kids around 1994 wanted to go pretend to be the power rangers while I wanted to play Warcraft and doom over IPX or null modem (used both)
I apparently imagined it all.
But to top that off, you say to me that I'm confused by metro. No. I am merely speaking from the viewpoint of others. And yes, I am proof you can learn by yourself. IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT. Actually it was quite easy. I have learned how to use every piece of software, every operating system that I have ever used. The only time I ever needed any type of reference was when programming (that's not interface related, though).
Photoshop? What I see there is pretty straight forward at the outset. Mind you I have been using it since 1995 (don't even ask where I got all this software from... lol) but its also not a great example because once again I am self trained in it. But as you could notice this entire time I was referencing OS interfaces? You keep trying to shift the argument from OS scope to program scope. Manuals ARE lazy, though. Again... UI and UX should a) be easy to figure out and b) shouldn't have to be explained what it does outside of the interface. Remember, we are talking about a consumer grade product and not professional grade. Interface has to remain accessible, understandable, usable and most importantly visible.
But no, I will not buy Windows 8. It's not worth the headache of having to deal with the inefficiencies due to the extreme ambiguity present in the interface. I am able to handle every tiny little quirk of it like every other OS i have used before it... but my time is precious. My attention is precious. Every little modicum. (Yes I feel it's even being wasted now) and you are quite wrong on the quality of it. It's like you're suffering from some weird type of digital Stockholm syndrome.
And I don't have a personal hatred for the interface - I have a personal hatred for the stupidity in its conception and lack of will, foresight, or acceptance that problems do exist and the entire nonexistent desire to correct said issues. It doesn't help that people are willing to ignorantly accept these downfalls for a neater task manager and an improvement of 2 whole seconds on the boot times! (When utilizing a UEFI bios, of course). But don't confuse my hatred over the mishandling of this unraveling disaster for distaste of the interface or "oh noes metroz" because that isn't the issue at hand and never was.
But hey! Im totally wrong, right? and you know everything! Of course you are all knowing! You somehow know my childhood better than I do!
I did have a good comprehension of what's was doing when using DOS at the age of 4. That's not to say I didn't make mistakes, but I quickly figured out everything I did wrong and things I could do and should not do.
Connected to BBS networks at the age of 7 using a 300 baud modem, connecting to the Internet at the age of 10 with a lynx browser while using a 2400 baud modem I acquired when my dads company liquidated... Installing windows 3.1 (and then 3.11) when they first came out, upgraded versions of dos.
I learned all the inner workings of a PC as a child, too. Did PC upgrades (with what I could get my hands on) from EDO memory (asking a PC store clerk for 2 MB of EDO ram must have been pretty mind bending from the dudes perspective) to multiple floppy disk drives. I was kind of limited as a child due to not having income, but I still was able to choose relevant upgrades (always wished I could upgrade from that sad 256 KB VGA card but could never afford it)
I assure you, I knew what I was doing. DOS was all trial and error. (More like trial and success) PC work was all done with assistance from the motherboard manual . I could deconstruct and reconstruct a PC by age 11.
Kids around 1994 wanted to go pretend to be the power rangers while I wanted to play Warcraft and doom over IPX or null modem (used both)
I apparently imagined it all.
But to top that off, you say to me that I'm confused by metro. No. I am merely speaking from the viewpoint of others. And yes, I am proof you can learn by yourself. IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT. Actually it was quite easy. I have learned how to use every piece of software, every operating system that I have ever used. The only time I ever needed any type of reference was when programming (that's not interface related, though).
Photoshop? What I see there is pretty straight forward at the outset. Mind you I have been using it since 1995 (don't even ask where I got all this software from... lol) but its also not a great example because once again I am self trained in it. But as you could notice this entire time I was referencing OS interfaces? You keep trying to shift the argument from OS scope to program scope. Manuals ARE lazy, though. Again... UI and UX should a) be easy to figure out and b) shouldn't have to be explained what it does outside of the interface. Remember, we are talking about a consumer grade product and not professional grade. Interface has to remain accessible, understandable, usable and most importantly visible.
But no, I will not buy Windows 8. It's not worth the headache of having to deal with the inefficiencies due to the extreme ambiguity present in the interface. I am able to handle every tiny little quirk of it like every other OS i have used before it... but my time is precious. My attention is precious. Every little modicum. (Yes I feel it's even being wasted now) and you are quite wrong on the quality of it. It's like you're suffering from some weird type of digital Stockholm syndrome.
And I don't have a personal hatred for the interface - I have a personal hatred for the stupidity in its conception and lack of will, foresight, or acceptance that problems do exist and the entire nonexistent desire to correct said issues. It doesn't help that people are willing to ignorantly accept these downfalls for a neater task manager and an improvement of 2 whole seconds on the boot times! (When utilizing a UEFI bios, of course). But don't confuse my hatred over the mishandling of this unraveling disaster for distaste of the interface or "oh noes metroz" because that isn't the issue at hand and never was.
But hey! Im totally wrong, right? and you know everything! Of course you are all knowing! You somehow know my childhood better than I do!
The Shift
Banned
I can't remember, but when could we drag and drop Desktop/Metro apps in the Metro interface? That would be nifty if a user could pin a new folder there and drag in tiles.
Bornstellar
Member
Just wanted to chime in and say that I went ahead and took the plunge and installed windows 8 on my laptop. Hated it the first couple hours, then it really grew on me. I'm now finding very few reasons to even use the desktop. As soon as Steam and other gaming clients have Win8 metro apps, I'll probably only use it for file tweaking / content creation.
It's also ridiculously fast.
It's also ridiculously fast.
Do you not get it? Steam is never going to be a metro app. Never. Microsoft's restrictions are going to guarantee that.
You could always drag a search result from the start menu to, say, a desktop email client or Gmail. They broke that.
eh, Valve could put out a Metro app to sell their desktop games. Metro games though, I don't think so, but Microsoft does not take sales from in-app purchases, maybe games could be considered in-app or something. /shrug.
A steam metro client to sell desktop software would be totally doable though.
chickdigger802
Banned
wait you can? How do you save powerpoints for offline use from emails?
Bornstellar
Member
Which restrictions are those?
This is what I want. Games will of course remain desktop apps, but it would be nice if steam made a metro app for browsing your library / purchasing games.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
If you buy keynote app I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to since it supports that format.
chickdigger802
Banned
oh...
I'm not too sure why my grandma needs keynote.... :/
It's a shame, you can view ppts and pdfs and w/e but you can only save images.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Apparently there are a couple free products that let you save/view.
http://maketecheasier.com/5-ipad-apps-for-saving-and-viewing-powerpoint-presentations/2011/10/12
Why even bother making a proprietary app when the web interface works for whatever will be possible on metro? iOS and Android apps are important because the web's been pretty gimped so far on cellphones. That's not the case on tablets and desktop though.
edit: well I guess there's the friend list and chat, and IE10 doesn't have Web Sockets support. Hm.
edit 2: oh wait, it does. Interesting.
well yeah, but a steam app is still doable.
And mobile websites have come along way imo, most of the apps on iOS are useless to me because I usually just use the website.
saltywalrus
Member
Clearly you have no idea about design, and your whole post is full of logical fallacies.
The Shift
Banned
Start Menu yes, but have never seen a demo of the Metro Start Screen doing drag and drop operations as you specified. No Metro interfaces allow for drag and drop(WP/360/W8) That's a desktop/folders paradigm when observed or actioned.
exactly there's no way offices around the world will install metro as their OS
I don't know if they will go to OSX, but if for security reasons they cant stay on old windows, then OSX is much closer to old windows than W8
i know that most old people won't be interested in relearning how to use W8 because they will be scrambling to do all their favourite things.
heck my dad who is 69 has trouble with the dualshock as a blu ray remote... but give him a standard remote, he can use it no problem.
That makes no sense. I use Windows for work. It consists of running a browser, office and a few proprietary apps made by my company. A different start menu doesn't change any of this whatsoever. The means of launching an app is not significantly impacting anyone's "workflow" as long as the desktop still exists (and it does)
Further, the idea that OSX's functionality is closer to the old start menu is laughable. All it serves is to point out that plenty of people do, in fact, survive without a start menu
Further, the idea that OSX's functionality is closer to the old start menu is laughable. All it serves is to point out that plenty of people do, in fact, survive without a start menu
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Except Microsoft would be getting a cut of Valve's transactions just like it is on XBox Live.
While not surprising, I don't believe that has been confirmed to be the case. I think I've read that there's no cut on third party transactions.
Doesn't apple require a cut of all in-app purchases? Someone above said Microsoft doesn't actually, but I can't be bothered to verify that. Regardless, if the former is true then this seems to be a moot point if Valve has an iOS app.
Also, Steam itself is an app store that takes a cut of all transactions so there is a bit of irony in complaining about that
chickdigger802
Banned
nope. do some research... please? Google, bing are excellent places to start!
well for now at least. This ain't apple we talking about, and MS got in trouble a while back for netscape right? I'm sure they aren't gonna turn super stingy all of a sudden.