Support NeoGAF

[Conciliator]

Damn Microsoft is taking a licking from the PC gaming community on this Windows 8 stuff. Oh well, I'd never buy a new OS until I needed to anyway. If it's a disaster, we'll just do the same thing we did with Vista...keep using the shit we're already using.

 

[Kogepan]

You know you can turn that metro stuff off right?

Yes. I'm just gonna keep using Win7.

 

[Uno Venova]

Why would you not pin it to the task bar??? And surely either on the start menu or the start screen searching for an app shouldn't take more than 2 seconds

Less clutter in the taskbar.

 

[raebodep]

Every time they release a new windows my workflow gets more and more obstructed. They always find a way to screw up what works and not fix what doesn't. Are they actively trying to make a bad OS? Is this all part of some sort of master plan?

The only somewhat pleasant windows experience I have is with XP/win2k.

 

[not psycho]

Why would you not pin it to the task bar??? And surely either on the start menu or the start screen searching for an app shouldn't take more than 2 seconds

I use the taskbar for switching between a bunch of stuff I have open. I'm not going to clutter it up by trying to fill it with everything I could possibly want to use the start menu for.

That is what the start menu is for.

It's pretty simple. I have a bunch of stuff open, and I need to be able to open new programs, files, folders, and searches without taking what I already have open off the screen. Forcing you to take what you are using off the screen is absolutely unacceptable, and the fact that Microsoft thought it was acceptable is a really, really bad sign (I still expect them to add the start menu back in).

 

[Totakeke]

So what happens when Windows Store eventually get games you want to play, even with a mouse?


Well, I guess people will find a way to bring it to Windows 7.

 

[Lynn616]

so ultimately both questions lead up up to asking one more question: why does it exist?

Because mobile devices like this are the future.

 

[dLMN8R]

Grandma also doesn't ring the shop/vendor when she has a problem, she rings me, and if she has Windows 8 on her PC she's gonna find herself shit-outta-luck, or back on Win 7.

And I'm sure grandma will just looooooooove you for putting Windows 7 on her brand new Windows 8 tablet

 

[Osiris]

So what happens when Windows Store eventually get games you want to play, even with a mouse?

Simple, Steam or Retail, or if not available and for some stupid reason is exclusive to Windows Store, manage without and laugh at a developer/publisher so shortsighted it made it's releases availability so restrictive that it shut out a large proportion of it's potential userbase.

 

[Loofy]

You can easily uninstall all metro apps with a few clicks and put shortcuts to your normal programs on your start screen. Problem solved.

vs.

I just.. dont. see. the point.

 

[Karma]

As a desktop OS, it appears to be made for nobody. It's like they designed it just to piss away their market share. It's less user friendly on the desktop relative to windows 7. It's far less pragmatic than windows 7 which means its not designed for power or enterprise users.

Really? Where is the market share going?

 

[Osiris]

And I'm sure grandma will just looooooooove you for putting Windows 7 on her brand new Windows 8 tablet

She knows Windows 7 and would thank me for taking that "strange shit" off her PC, and she trusts me more than any vendor/marketing campaign, good luck changing that with a flashy ad or tutorial.

 

[f0lken]

I use the taskbar for switching between a bunch of stuff I have open. I'm not going to clutter it up by trying to fill it with everything I could possibly want to use the start menu for.

That is what the start menu is for.

It's pretty simple. I have a bunch of stuff open, and I need to be able to open new programs, files, folders, and searches without taking what I already have open off the screen. Forcing you to take what you are using off the screen is absolutely unacceptable, and the fact that Microsoft thought it was acceptable is a really, really bad sign (I still expect them to add the start menu back in).

Honest question, why do you need it without taking it off the screen, I would think that a task that takes 1-2 seconds just needs to be fast enough to being executed, and the search on the start screen certainly is, i search for files and programs all the time on Win8 and never it has taken me more than 2 seconds returning to my job.

vs.

I just.. dont. see. the point.

The search in Windows 8 also search in apps, like if you have wikipedia installed it would search whatever term you wrote in Wikipedia, the same for bing or other apps

 

[ghst]

She knows Windows 7 and would thank me for taking that "strange shit" off her PC, and she trusts me more than any vendor/marketing capaign, good luck changing that with a flashy ad or tutorial.

get her a gaf account. she'll soon be set right.

 

[Karma]

She knows Windows 7 and would thank me for taking that "strange shit" off her PC, and she trusts me more than any vendor/marketing capaign, good luck changing that with a flashy ad or tutorial.

He said tablet.

 

[DopeyFish]

Really? Where is the market share going?

Apple.

If windows 9 ends up being as bad as windows 8. As a die hard PC user, I may have to give in. (And as of this moment, I hate macs)

Everyone has their limits

And I'm sure grandma will just looooooooove you for putting Windows 7 on her brand new Windows 8 tablet

I'm sure shed love an iPad.

 

[Osiris]

Well, Grandma has a laptop, ALL of this thread has been about Windows 8 on the desktop and/or PC, she's not getting a tablet anytime soon, hell her phone is still a flip-type dumbphone.

A deflection to tablet was a nice touch though, but utterly irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

 

[secretanchitman]

classic shell solves almost all of my problems with windows 8. i can boot straight into the desktop without ever seeing metro and it gives me back my classic start menu. i installed the trial of windows 8 x64 last night, and it feels much faster than even windows 7 sp1 x64 ever did.

dont get me wrong however - i still think it absolutely sucks for laptops and desktops, but will seem to be just fine for tablets like the surface pro.

 

[watership]

This is the most ignorant thread I have ever read on Reddit, hands down.

 

[toddhunter]

Every time they release a new windows my workflow gets more and more obstructed. They always find a way to screw up what works and not fix what doesn't. Are they actively trying to make a bad OS? Is this all part of some sort of master plan?

The only somewhat pleasant windows experience I have is with XP/win2k.

Xp = great !
Vista = terrible! Not buying it
7 (vista with patches) = great!
8 (7 with new menu) = terrible! Not buying it
9 (8 with patches) = great!

People don't need a new os very often, Microsoft need to keep selling stuff. The worse an os is, the better the next one will sell.

 

[DopeyFish]

classic shell solves almost all of my problems with windows 8. i can boot straight into the desktop without ever seeing metro and it gives me back my classic start menu. i installed the trial of windows 8 x64 last night, and it feels much faster than even windows 7 sp1 x64 ever did.

I'd upgrade to win8 if I had guarantees this thing would work forever

Taking the most useful start menu (throwing away all the unnecessary shit in the vista/7 versions) is a huge huge plus too

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/03/evolving-the-start-menu.aspx

What is the +/- on search and run?

If those are positives, then this is misleading. It's just people learning HOW to efficiently use the OS. (Considering the stats show decreases on every useless start menu feature except control panel (that one is perplexing)) start menu is 11% drop. With people using quick launch, and moving the computer part to the desktop (or having a link on quick launch) then the stats are likely showing an increase in its original intended function and a decrease in functions that weren't exactly wanted in the first place

 

[Delusibeta]

I don't work on the apps so I don't know their plans, but hopefully not. What I do know is that there are strict policies forbidding the use of ads on live tiles and other horrible ways, so there's that at least:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh694083.aspx

Section 2

I'll give that policy twelve months.

 

[f0lken]

Xp = great !
Vista = terrible! Not buying it
7 (vista with patches) = great!
8 (7 with new menu) = terrible! Not buying it
9 (8 with patches) = great!

People don't need a new os very often, Microsoft need to keep selling stuff. The worse an os is, the better the next one will sell.

But Windows 9 is guaranteed to have Metro, and with that it surely won't have a start menu!

 

[Game Guru]

Because mobile devices like this are the future.

Note what is connected to it... A keyboard and a touchpad... When it's in that particular form factor, I'm not using the touchscreen. I'm using the keyboard and the touchpad. Why should I when the touchpad involves less movement? The touchpad works just as well for me on 7. Yes, Windows does need to adapt to having a touchscreen, but it needs to do it without sacrificing usability for those who don't.

 

[jwhit28]

Xp = great !
Vista = terrible! Not buying it
7 (vista with patches) = great!
8 (7 with new menu) = terrible! Not buying it
9 (8 with patches) = great!

People don't need a new os very often, Microsoft need to keep selling stuff. The worse an os is, the better the next one will sell.

XP without patches was worse than Vista without patches. XP was pretty bad up until SP2.

 

[Duxxy3]

8 will be just as large of a flop for desktop/laptops as Vista was. You will see dell/hp etc asking for windows 7 licenses very quickly.

It has ZERO chance of finding a home on corporate machines and that's an enormous segment.

I'm still not convinced that it will flop on tablets though, especially not the surface. I can see it doing well there, i just don't know what interest level there is for it.

 

[Karma]

Apple.

If windows 9 ends up being as bad as windows 8. As a die hard PC user, I may have to give in. (And as of this moment, I hate macs)

Everyone has their limits




I'm sure shed love an iPad.

Love to break it to you but OSX is going the same way Windows is going. OSX and iOS will merge. Apple is also much closer to closing off the OS than Microsoft is. Soon only apps from the Mac App store will be allowed.

 

[Uno Venova]

Love to break it to you but OSX is going the same way Windows is going. OSX and iOS will merge. Apple is also much closer to closing off the OS than Microsoft is. Soon only apps from the Mac App store will be allowed.

There's no signs of IOS and OSX awkwardly merging into one OS in the future, right now they are just putting the features that make sense, like notification center and certain iphone only apps that can sync in their os.

 

[watership]

8 will be just as large of a flop for desktop/laptops as Vista was. You will see dell/hp etc asking for windows 7 licenses very quickly.

It has ZERO chance of finding a home on corporate machines and that's an enormous segment.

I'm still not convinced that it will flop on tablets though, especially not the surface. I can see it doing well there, i just don't know what interest level there is for it.

Vista had a bad name due to performance and driver issues. No one can say that of Win8, even in the release preview.

 

[DopeyFish]

8 will be just as large of a flop for desktop/laptops as Vista was. You will see dell/hp etc asking for windows 7 licenses very quickly.

It has ZERO chance of finding a home on corporate machines and that's an enormous segment.

I'm still not convinced that it will flop on tablets though, especially not the surface. I can see it doing well there, i just don't know what interest level there is for it.

Vista was actually a great OS (64 bit)

Vista is and always will be a better OS than Windows 8 ever will be.

 

[chickdigger802]

ok, lets talk real stuff.

This isn't apple.

it shouldn't be too hard to get some unsigned tweaks and 'enhancements' in here right?

didn't folks get the old start menu back in the beta?

 

[Duxxy3]

Vista was actually a great OS (64 bit)

Vista is and always will be a better OS than Windows 8 ever will be.

It was decent if you had a monster PC (for the time). But the mainstream systems at the time ran like dog shit with vista. Running XP on those machines was a large performance boost.

Vista had a bad name due to performance and driver issues. No one can say that of Win8, even in the release preview.

Sorry for the edit quote.

Vista had a reason to exist in the desktop/laptop market. There is absolutely no reason for windows 8 to even be available on desktops/laptops with windows 7 out.

 

[not psycho]

Honest question, why do you need it without taking it off the screen, I would think that a task that takes 1-2 seconds just needs to be fast enough to being executed, and the search on the start screen certainly is, i search for files and programs all the time on Win8 and never it has taken me more than 2 seconds returning to my job.

For me personally I have a program set to take up half the screen for communicating with people, and on the other half of the screen I open files/programs/searches related to what we are talking about. I need to keep constant watch to respond quickly on the first program, any time covering it up is too much.

Even 2 seconds of stupidly blacking out the screen adds up each time. And there are times it takes more than 2 seconds. Besides, right now my screen never blacks out on me at all.

There is also the possibility that you would be looking at something on the screen (filename, instructions,...) that you are using to help find something. If the screen blacks out on you, you can't do that. Granted, I don't recall a time this would have affected me personally.

 

[Karma]

There's no signs of IOS and OSX awkwardly merging into one OS in the future, right now they are just putting the features that make sense, like notification center and certain iphone only apps that can sync in their os.

You keep telling yourself that. They will merge. The Radial Menus Patent Apple was granted almost guarantees it.

 

[f0lken]

ok, lets talk real stuff.

This isn't apple.

it shouldn't be too hard to get some unsigned tweaks and 'enhancements' in here right?

didn't folks get the old start menu back in the beta?

Yes, there are some alternatives to the start menu that work really well, I tried several and they replicate the old menu without problems, uninstalled because I like the start screen and you can adapt your use and tweaks to never see the metro enviroment and enjoy all the performance and upgrades of Windows 8.

 

[Uno Venova]

You keep telling yourself that. They will merge. The Radial Menus Patent Apple was granted almost guarantees it.

What more are they doing to merge them?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

People will find out soon enough that plopping down grandma in front of Windows 8 is not a realistic simulation of what people will actually see of Windows 8 on October 26th.

Firstly, most of these "experiments" were done on the Release Preview, where the intro tutorial video didn't exist to give people any hints about how to use the OS. The video has been extensively tested with real people as a pretty good way to keep people from getting stuck.

Secondly, marketing. There has been 0 marketing of Windows 8 so far. Enthusiasts like to think the verdict is in, the PR response is done, and it's time to move on, but the reality of the matter is that people know literally nothing about Windows 8. Real, honest to god people. The 99.9% of the world. That will change in the next 2 months before release, significantly.

Thirdly, and most importantly, grandma isn't going to go and install Windows 8 on her existing PC. She's going to go out and buy something new, build from the ground-up with the OS in mind, with the education included to teach her how to do simple things like "swipe in from the sides" or "move your mouse to the corners".

It won't change, you can tell the people who have never even booted up windows 8 in this thread. They will just be the FUD of "lulz microsoft cycle" like there was with vista even though vista was fixed not too far after release. You can't fix ignorance.

 

[Razek]

XP without patches was worse than Vista without patches. XP was pretty bad up until SP2.

I lived with vanilla XP (I didn't believe in automatic update back then) for about 7 years. I can't recall ever having any sort of glaring problem or issue.

 

[Duxxy3]

I will say this...

once an OS starts to get a stigma that "it sucks" it NEVER goes away.

 

[f0lken]

I will say this...

once an OS starts to get a stigma that "it sucks" it NEVER goes away.

This is true

 

[Osiris]

It won't change, you can tell the people who have never even booted up windows 8 in this thread. They will just be the FUD of "lulz microsoft cycle" like there was with vista even though vista was fixed not too far after release. You can't fix ignorance.

You can stick your head in the sand and believe that the only people to not like Windows 8 are those that haven't touched it and just dislike the idea of Windows 8 if you like.

But there's plenty of us who didn't need to plonk down a penny to find out what we thought by installing the RTM and still found it an abomination of a bad UX, bad enough to go back to Windows 7 after a few days.

Simply put, Metro currently has no place on a desktop PC, even if they were widely available at sub-£50 prices I'm not going to be using a touchscreen on my desktop (ever), it's a form of GUI that is ideal for a tablet, but not something I can see any need or benefit for on a desktop, something that couldn't be said about the move from command-line to mouse/keyboard.

 

[DopeyFish]

It won't change, you can tell the people who have never even booted up windows 8 in this thread. They will just be the FUD of "lulz microsoft cycle" like there was with vista even though vista was fixed not too far after release. You can't fix ignorance.

Do you think I never booted up win8?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/DopeyFish/305ee45f7a3856850fd075f8160b9909.jpg

 

[saltywalrus]

You keep telling yourself that. They will merge. The Radial Menus Patent Apple was granted almost guarantees it.

They won't merge. Apple has good taste, and Tim Cook doesn't want to merge toasters with refrigerators.

 

[slackboy72]

Apple.

If windows 9 ends up being as bad as windows 8. As a die hard PC user, I may have to give in. (And as of this moment, I hate macs)

Everyone has their limits

Don't do it man. For the love of right mouse buttons everywhere don't give in!
Anyway you can still use 7 for another 10 years just like XP.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

You can stick your head in the sand and believe that the only people to not like Windows 8 are those that haven't touched it and just dislike the idea of Windows 8 if you like.

But there's plenty of us who didn't need to plonk down a penny to find out what we thought by installing the RTM and still found it an abomination of a bad UX, bad enough to go back to Windows 7 after a few days.

Simply put, Metro currently has no place on a desktop PC, even if they were widely available at sub-£50 prices I'm not going to be using a touchscreen on my desktop (ever), it's a form of GUI that is ideal for a tablet, but not something I can see any need or benefit for on a desktop, something that couldn't be said about the move from command-line to mouse/keyboard.

I never said the only people who don't like it haven't used it.

Do you think I never booted up win8?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/DopeyFish/305ee45f7a3856850fd075f8160b9909.jpg

FopeyDish pls, I never mentioned I was speaking of you.

 

[DopeyFish]

I never said the only people who don't like it haven't used it.


I never mentioned I was speaking of you.

I know, I just wanted an excuse to draw something

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I know, I just wanted an excuse to draw something

Haha

Edit: You quoted me before me edit.

 

[ZealousD]

It's not change for the sake of change. It's the creation of a single user interface that works well on all form factors. But most importantly, it works well on systems that blend together multiple form factors.

You did not create a "single" user interface. You took a desktop interface and a tablet interface and you stapled them together.

 

[Satchel]

Windows 8 Is Not Good For Gamers - Kotaku.

I don't know about you, but I would put the opinion of the gaming division of Gawker Media above the tech side in deciding what is better for gamers.

Not when the article has nothing to do with gaming.

The kotaku piece addresses nothing more than UI navigation. Not playing or running games.

 

[rpmurphy]

I'm seeing the screenshots here of the Metro UI, but what does it look like when you have an app open, like the browser, or email? Where is the taskbar or something of its equivalent so that you can easily glance over what windows and apps you have open, and which have notifications and other updates?