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Peaceful race relations continue in the UK
- Thread starter ReplacementPelican
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Mammoth Jones
Member
I made a statement. You don't like it. Tough. I stand by it
It's irrelevant if i like it, it's factually untrue.
pants
Member
I dont have a comment on what 'GAF' told you here, but its a good idea to consider the UK separate from continental Europe when it comes to non trade, non law stuff. They themselves do after all. The culture there is significantly different from the rest of Europe.
Okay I do have a comment on what 'GAF' said. No one said that, if you can point them out, please do so I can put them on ignore because I dont want to read the ramblings of morons. I suspect you're making up this thing that 'GAF' said though.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Bloody emigrants...
pants
Member
You sound like a Frenchman.
Comparisons to the French is probably the easiest way to get a Pom to knock it off lol
QuicheFontaine
Member
Oh yeah, well you sound like a kiwi.
I don't know if that actually offends Aussies. In fact, I don't know if it's possible to offend Aussies at all.
PhantomHound
Banned
Sure. I'll shoot you a PM when I get home.
pants
Member
sheepishlord
Member
"i'm about a quarter your age and i know more about the world than you do."
She absolutely ruined him. Delightful.
She absolutely ruined him. Delightful.
freeofgreed
Member
Except no it's not. America did inherent most of its racist notions from Europe. Even if it only got them from the UK, France, And Holland, they are all still in Europe so the statement absolutely still applies.
But is right though. Just don't hit people, even horrible little shits, unless they're hitting you or someone else.
The guy could barely speak to begin with.
thequickandthedead
Member
Guy was a massive douche although people need to understand two wrongs don't make a right.
freeofgreed
Member
What wrong did the black guy commit? If someone assaults you, you absolutely have the right to defend yourself. This whole "both sides were wrong" bullshit that pops up in threads like these is seriously annoying.
ReplacementPelican
Member
It's not, ironically, a black and white issue. There are varying degrees of wrong. It is wrong to hit people but I doubt anyone is suggesting that makes him as bad as the other guy.
Just, try to assume a little grey area here and not just get annoyed because people think it's wrong to punch people under most circumstances. They were surrounded by people and the guy was pissed as a newt, he'd hardly be able to do more than push him. Also, this shitbag could have got arrested but instead they just have to leave it.
freeofgreed
Member
Obviously it's wrong to hit people in most instance but I find most logical people know that force can be acceptable in some instances, which is why it's pointless to point it out in instance where it is clearly justifiable. All making comments like that does, is equate the victim to the abuser, which does a complete disservice to the person who was receiving the abuse.
Im pretty sure that he did not mean Europe on purely geographical terms. The inability to draw distinction between the different states that occupy Europe is a bigger fallacy than saying the bible belt represents USA values.
freeofgreed
Member
Well that's the first thing I thought of when he made that statement. In fact your response was the one I found weird because I don't understand how him saying that America inherited it's racist notions from Europe (which is undeniable true) suddenly equates to him saying all European nations are the same. It just seems like you got a bit too offended at his statement without realizing what he meant.
ReplacementPelican
Member
I'm just trying to say that you'd be best not to take that last part of your argument as what people are attempting to say.
The rest is all down to personal views on what is or isn't justifiable.
The Albatross
Member
Skipped around... All I heard the guy who gets knocked out say is "Who are you fighting for??" or something. And I'm fightin for the 21st century mate
thequickandthedead
Member
The idiot was clearly trying to provoke him and the kid took the bait. Still, I probably would have taken the bait as well after being racially abused like that.
freeofgreed
Member
Even if that's not what they are intending to say that is exactly what their comments are doing, which is why I find comments such as that problematic.
Dude Abides
Banned
freeofgreed
Member
That still doesn't answer my question. What wrong did the guy commit, for there to be "two wrongs"?
The later discussion clearly shows that he did in fact mean some unified cultural heritage. Where would the culture of "white man supremacy" originally come from if not from Europe, geographically speaking, Africa? Anyway, the post he responded to was about modern times, it's me who proposed that he was pulling his statement from some historical context, because the notion that current European racism is spreading into USA is laughable. Modern racism in USA is purely on the country itself.
No, the kid was physically assaulted and he defended himself, it had nothing to do with being baited in.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Drunk guy talks too much and gets rolled. This happens every day in every country on earth i'd imagine.
thequickandthedead
Member
punching him to the floor?
voodoojohn
Banned
The talking isn't the problem, the contemptible mindset is.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Kid stood his ground.
freeofgreed
Member
Ok this whole post is inaccurate. He clearly meant it and even specified that he was speaking in a historical context and not of modern Europe, reread his posts. Nowhere does he say that the current US racism is derived from modern Europe. I think you're severely misinterpreting him.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
What exactly is the point of this thread?
I mean, I'm sure the UK has problems w/ racism; every country does. But it doesn't seem quite a potent as it is here in the States which, tbf, is a bit exaggerated, but the media loves to use it for divide-and-conquer purposes and when you see people thinking broadly in terms of "race relations" or "race wars" or whatever, they appear to do their job well.
But...and if I can take a moment to get a little fancy and proper fun here...if it's UK I can ignore some of it b/c you guys helped give the world Jungle and Drum and Bass, only the two best genres of electronic music and the two best new genres of music post-Berlin Wall collapse. Oh and UK Garage. Even at the time that was happening, that sort of stuff would have never happened here in the states simply b/c everything's a lot more...well...about racism here. Both legit and non-legit.
Sadly. Closest I can think of is stuff like Onxy+Biohazard or early No Doubt. Or Bosstones 3rd wave ska. The pickings are quite slim in this regard.
You're right; he shouldn't of punched him b/c then the racist would've...just found another way to justify them being right regardless?
I can kinda believe this.
I mean, I'm sure the UK has problems w/ racism; every country does. But it doesn't seem quite a potent as it is here in the States which, tbf, is a bit exaggerated, but the media loves to use it for divide-and-conquer purposes and when you see people thinking broadly in terms of "race relations" or "race wars" or whatever, they appear to do their job well.
But...and if I can take a moment to get a little fancy and proper fun here...if it's UK I can ignore some of it b/c you guys helped give the world Jungle and Drum and Bass, only the two best genres of electronic music and the two best new genres of music post-Berlin Wall collapse. Oh and UK Garage. Even at the time that was happening, that sort of stuff would have never happened here in the states simply b/c everything's a lot more...well...about racism here. Both legit and non-legit.
Sadly. Closest I can think of is stuff like Onxy+Biohazard or early No Doubt. Or Bosstones 3rd wave ska. The pickings are quite slim in this regard.
freeofgreed
Member
If someone assaults you, you have the right to fight back. Would you tell someone who was getting raped that punching their attacker was wrong, because you should never hit a person?
Seems a little bit hypocritical to have a dig at people from different socioeconomic backgrounds (particularly when they're the ones speaking out against this drunk guy) on a topic dealing with xenophobia.
Everyone cheering/ignoring the guy punching the racist will make him think that assault is fine. If anything, getting punched will make the racist think that he's in the right more so than anything else.
Having said that, fuck the racist, no excuse even if he was drunk off his head.
Difference between self-defense and getting your own back.
JordanN
Banned
When a racist tells you to "go back to Nigeria" and proceeds to get physical, I think those are immediate signs your life could be in danger.
Alright, suppose that's what he meant. What relevancy does that comment have to anything at hand with the current discussion then? I find it hard to believe that the whole purpose was to make a "Europe did it first.lol" post. Anyway, i probably derailed this enough as it is.
Sigh, attitude of some people in this country is disgusting and I swear it feels like it's getting worse with whole the anti-immigration sentiment.
Responding to a moderate push by smacking him in the face was a bit much imo but it's understandable under the circumstances. Guy had done well to keep his cool up to that point.
Responding to a moderate push by smacking him in the face was a bit much imo but it's understandable under the circumstances. Guy had done well to keep his cool up to that point.
Oh come on now, there is a clear difference between defending yourself from severe harm and getting your own back against someone who just slightly pushed you.
ReplacementPelican
Member
Definitely. He seemed a lot calmer than the woman did, that's for damn sure.
freeofgreed
Member
Yeah you did kinda
, but I'm pretty sure it was just a passing comment, and even if he did mean it in relation to modern Europe, that wouldn't be that far from the truth. there isn't a single country in Europe that's any where close to a racial utopia.I know that, but the argument he seemed to be trying to make is that all violence is wrong even if it is seemingly justifiable.
Soodanim
Member
Of course people are against violence here. I'm not surprised. When a drunk racist argues for several minutes then pushes the kid. What the fuck does anyone expect? Of course he's taking one to the chops for that, no question.
The proper way!
NinjaMouse
Member
I don't think there was any baiting being done. While I doubt the old racist was going to do more than push him and berate him, the black dude responded appropriately in cleaning the oldster's clock after the shove. You never put hands on someone in a threatening manner like that. The black dude acted with more restraint than I ever could, leading up to it, that's for sure.
Big Baybee
Member
Dude takes verbal abuse, then physical abuse, and still gets chastised for retaliating.
Yeah you did kinda
I know that, but the argument he seemed to be trying to make is that all violence is wrong even if it is seemingly justifiable.
Sounds more like he was saying violence in that particular situation was wrong, not violence in every conceivable situation.
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