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Penny Arcade Kickstarter
- Thread starter LiK
- Start date
Been thinking about it some more.
The current situation is this:
We, the people who read PA, are the product. PA creates content to draw us in. We are marketed and sold by PA to their advertisers.
The proposition is to turn this around. Donors become producers (in the Hollywood sense, in other words we give them money) and PA creates content (the product) in order please us so we continue funding them.
The thing is I haven't seen any evidence of PA editorial being beholden to sponsorship in many years. PA have too much clout to be pushed around by advertisers any more. They can say whatever they want without fear of retaliation. If an advertiser tried it they'd find themselves on the receiving end of a deluge of anger from PA readers. And their advertising is not intrusive. So the question is - where is the value? One of PA's stated "stretch goals" is to create a 6 page Lookouts comic. So that's $1 million dollars in exchange for 6 additional pages of content per year? That's not worthwhile at all. As a prospective backer I want to understand what the measurable benefits are, because as far as I can tell the status quo seems to be just fine.
The current situation is this:
We, the people who read PA, are the product. PA creates content to draw us in. We are marketed and sold by PA to their advertisers.
The proposition is to turn this around. Donors become producers (in the Hollywood sense, in other words we give them money) and PA creates content (the product) in order please us so we continue funding them.
The thing is I haven't seen any evidence of PA editorial being beholden to sponsorship in many years. PA have too much clout to be pushed around by advertisers any more. They can say whatever they want without fear of retaliation. If an advertiser tried it they'd find themselves on the receiving end of a deluge of anger from PA readers. And their advertising is not intrusive. So the question is - where is the value? One of PA's stated "stretch goals" is to create a 6 page Lookouts comic. So that's $1 million dollars in exchange for 6 additional pages of content per year? That's not worthwhile at all. As a prospective backer I want to understand what the measurable benefits are, because as far as I can tell the status quo seems to be just fine.
Vire
Member
I'm usually a Penny-Arcade supporter but they can fuck right off.
They have their own video games for fuck sake. As if PAX wasn't enough, they just start begging for free money? They are a well established giant in the gaming world.
C'mon guys... this is like Activision asking for money to fund Call of Duty.
Yeah, no.
They have their own video games for fuck sake. As if PAX wasn't enough, they just start begging for free money? They are a well established giant in the gaming world.
C'mon guys... this is like Activision asking for money to fund Call of Duty.
Yeah, no.
Jasper Avenue
Member
I remember the first half of 2012, when Kickstarter was pretty great. It's quickly becoming laughable (with the exception of a few real projects).
At least if Activision asked for money for a Call of Duty game it'd be a defined goal. Penny Arcade is just asking for money for general expenses since they're no longer going to receive ad revenue. That is not a defined goal.
I'm amazed but not surprised at the hate. Everyone hates ads. Penny Arcade has a way to get rid of ads. They're not threatening anyone, just providing fans the option to chip in if they too don't like ads.
They're kickstarting an opportunity to run the site without ads. Don't like it? Don't contribute. It's really pretty simple here.
They're kickstarting an opportunity to run the site without ads. Don't like it? Don't contribute. It's really pretty simple here.
Guys.. Seriously?
It seems obvious me that they are feeling pressure from their advertisers about some/a lot of the content that they post and joke about. They are gonna give their audience the chance to let them run wild. Its seems like an interesting experiment/idea. Why else would they even bother? They already have a steady income stream.
It seems obvious me that they are feeling pressure from their advertisers about some/a lot of the content that they post and joke about. They are gonna give their audience the chance to let them run wild. Its seems like an interesting experiment/idea. Why else would they even bother? They already have a steady income stream.
PantherAttacks
Member
This has to be a joke? They're just testing if people would actually pay that much money for basically nothing? It must be Tycho doing some social commentary on Kickstarters.
DJ Lushious
Member
I would be willing to wager that the economies of scale lean heavily towards Penny Arcade telling one advertiser to fuck off, should any content censorship pressure occur. Penny Arcade is not some Podunk back-corner alley of the internet.
What pressure? And better yet: Maybe they should've thought of this before they started to do crap art for game tie-ins.
According to Gabe on twitter today, Kickstarter approved after talks with them. As if they wouldn't though.
A little surprised at the people defending the purity of Kickstarter. Even if you don't like what PA is doing on Kickstarter, they are undoubtedly bringing Kickstarter more attention. Potentially annually. The more people visit Kickstarter, the more creative projects get off the ground. Rising tide lifts all boats and all that.
Their forums will be just as censored after this as they were before it.
Yep too much money to be earned. I'm done with Kickstarter if this goes ahead, I'll contribute to a crowdsourcing promoter that doesn't ignore their own policies in the future.
I guess the Kickstarter crew has no self-respect.
Why?
GamerVoice
Banned
I submitted a complaint to Kickstarter. Hopefully with some pressure we can get this removed.
Why?
There is no way that this is the case. 0.0% chance.
I don't support the business practice of approving projects that go against their own clearly defined rules just so they can take a cut of it.
If you're fine with that, cool. No harm done but the only way for me to support a crowdsourcing project without Kickstarter making money off it is to not use Kickstarter.
notworksafe
Member
Oh lord. Why do you care so much about how other people spend their money?
What clearly defined rules?
http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines
1) This is a substantial project that enables a completely new financial model for an established site that lets them stop worrying about advertisers, bending over for advertisers, finding advertisers, and keeping advertisers. Along the way it enables they to fund projects that directly interact with their community, instead of spending time worrying about that other stuff.
2) It easily falls within the "Comics" category, so that's not an issue.
3) It's not supporting a charity or cause, funding a life, or sponsoring prohibited content
Conrad Link
Member
To be honest I thought the whole thing was just a joke and it would be like lol you idiots actually paid for us to do shit, really guys?? *gives money to charity* or something would be the outcome.
Just reading the gift things made it seem like its a joke.
If its real...... :\ They certainly think highly of themselves.
Just reading the gift things made it seem like its a joke.
If its real...... :\ They certainly think highly of themselves.
I don't agree that it does meet the guidelines. Removing advertising from an existing website is not a defined project as far as I'm concerned. it's a fundraising exercise so they can pay their ad team who will no longer have job selling ads. The fact their website hosts Comics is irrelevant because the Kickstarter isn't funding a Comic, it's funding the removal of ads.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
The thing is this is not supposed to be how KS works.
KS is about funding cool fresh things that can't find funding elsewhere. Not funding things that are already successful and already have funding.
Penny Arcade does not need "kickstarting." This is not kickstarting, this is just another revenue stream for something that already has a sufficient revenue stream.
Edit:
Kickstarter said:
This does not qualify. Nothing is being produced.
KS is sadly now little more than "give me some money please." I have friends who have been using Kickstarter for years to do things like fund independent films, so this "I need money to buy a salad for lunch tomorrow" stuff really rubs me the wrong way. Maybe with the extra energy from that salad the PA guys can produce better comics!
What defines a "project"? Why does it matter?
Yes, it's a fundraising exercise. So is, you know, ever Kickstarter that ever existed.
Other Comics Kickstarters are for directly funding the creation of Comics. The purpose of this Kickstarter is to also fund the creation of Comics, since advertising will no longer exist. The end result is completely identical.
Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but meeting their goal allows for none of that. They will need to raise 4x the amount requested to do what you describe.
RomanticHeroX
Member
At least one of the stretch goals directly funds the creation of a new comic.
You didn't bold the part that explains why they can't do that:
So, like, their Assassin's Creed tie-in comic, or their Dragon Age tie-in comic, or whatever. They can't hire more people to do those, because the companies are interested in paying the people who write and draw Penny Arcade to create those. They're not just talking about not dealing with banner ads, they're talking about essentially having the users pay them to create six pages of whatever comic they think would be cool, vs Bioware paying them to churn out six pages of Dragon Age 2 content.
They just foolishly focused their KS campaign on the banner ad aspect, instead of the 'other shit we can make' aspect.
You could say the same thing about the promises made by many other Kickstarters. DoubleFine Adventure would have been an empty shell of a game if it only reached its Kickstarter goal.
This is still a project that enables fans who want to contribute to enable a site they like to get rid of a necessary but negative influence.
I seriously don't see how it would be any different if this money was used to fund a brand new site, or take an existing site and transform it into the same site with an identical business model as that brand new site. The end result is literally identical.
For the record, I didn't contribute because I like Penny Arcade, but I don't love Penny Arcade, I already go to PAX once a year, and none of the Kickstarter tiers really appealed to me.
550k to see a 6 page comic. What a deal!
Okay I didn't read it like that. That makes a lot more sense.
RomanticHeroX
Member
Their fans could not fund it and it'll be a 6 page Dragon Age or Assassin's Creed comic, paid for by those publishers. The explicit purpose of the Kickstarter is to allow them to reclaim time spent making ad deals and promotional material and instead spend it making material directly for their readers. It's pretty straighforward.
GamerVoice
Banned
Must be tough making a shitload of money.
Respectfully disagree with that statement. Double Fine would have made a shittier game and documentary with only $450,000, but that is exactly what they were promising. PA is going out of their way to position this as some way to break free from advertisers, when the entire process does not even begin unless they hit their Kickstarter goal. They've allotted $750,000 worth of wiggle room between "we're taking you're money" and "we did it!" while most projects allot for $0. The stretch goals should be gravy, not the actual things you want but you'll still take people's money if it doesn't happen.
Heading to bed now, didn't expect to have this much to say on the matter as is. Will keep an eye out on the sidelines as it progresses.
I don't. I mean, not all ads are annoying. I don't remember Penny Arcade ever having annoying or distracting ads when I've gone there.
That's not true, and even if it was it still would've been a new game, not just a different way to put money in Schafer and co's pockets.
Ad revenue is only one of the ways they make money.
RomanticHeroX
Member
A million dollars to fund the annual operation of a company with 14 employees isn't a shitload of money.
GamerVoice
Banned
Considering that company has plenty of income other than website ads? Yes it is.
I wasn't saying it was an exact comparison, but you're still in a situation where the promises made for the goal differ wildly from the promises made for the stretch goals.
And crowdsourced funding by fans who want to pay money for it is another great way to make money
How is this a shift in vision?
I agree that the rewards are underwhelming. I don't really see how they're "insulting" though. A lot of people really like Mike and Jerry and could think that they're pretty cool. I can understand the reasoning though - one of the main goals of this Kickstarter is to enable them to focus on stuff other than ads. If they have some extremely in-depth rewards, it would merely cause them to waste a ton of time fulfilling those rewards instead of working on that other stuff.