I never said they were non-profit. I don't believe anyone actually did. What they DID do was compare how NPR wants to avoid being beholden to advertisers to how Penny Arcade wants to do the same thing.
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Penny Arcade Kickstarter
- Thread starter LiK
- Start date
I never said they were non-profit. I don't believe anyone actually did. What they DID do was compare how NPR wants to avoid being beholden to advertisers to how Penny Arcade wants to do the same thing.
here:
They didn't say they were non-profit, just that there isn't much difference. Which is hilarious.
Last Hearth
Member
The idea that Non-Profit is anything but an IRS designation for tax purposes is hilarious.
They're almost all profiting their founders.
In most non-profits, they just pay it out in salaries. Even the Red Cross pays their executives salaries in the 7 figures.
The comparison to NPR or PBS is entirely appropriate. You like their content, you pay to keep them churning out content.
I wouldn't give money to either myself, but it's fine with me if other people want to spend their money that way.
They're almost all profiting their founders.
In most non-profits, they just pay it out in salaries. Even the Red Cross pays their executives salaries in the 7 figures.
The comparison to NPR or PBS is entirely appropriate. You like their content, you pay to keep them churning out content.
I wouldn't give money to either myself, but it's fine with me if other people want to spend their money that way.
David H Wong
Banned
Now read the rest of his post, which perfectly explains it and also blows away your objections.
Ninja Scooter
Member
CBS should start a kick starter if they raise $1 million the next episode of Two and A Half Men will air commercial free.
You don't know what you're talking about. Read some 990s sometime - you don't have to wonder if a nonprofit is "paying it out in salaries" It's pubic information. The Red Cross, for example, spends 92% of their revenue on program activities.
Comparing a privately held webcomic to NPR or PBS is not only not "entirely appropriate", it is batshit fucking insane.
Ninja Scooter
Member
if this is the case then Pepsi, netflix, McDonalds and a weed dealer are all comparable to PBS. Maybe they should have pledge drives and kick starters too!
electroshockwave
Member
It's unlikely at this point but I feel the true nature of this would really be shown if it reached the $250,000 target but not any of the stretch goals. One banner ad removed, no new Automata or Lookout strip or supposed freedom from advertisers. Just Mike and Jerry taking some gullible people's money to continue business as usual.
Last Hearth
Member
Chris Remo
Member
CEOs are highly paid--according to some people, overly so. The fact that that is also true of many non-profits doesn't somehow make a non-profit identical to a for-profit company, unless the sole metric by which to judge a company is in its CEO's salary. The non-profit itself still doesn't have shareholders or private owners and it isn't paying out dividends.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
It looks like the donations have slowed down a bit.
I think there's a 50% chance of it reaching the 250,000 goal.
I think there's a 50% chance of it reaching the 250,000 goal.
Zombie James
Banned
Square should kickstart the Final Fantasy VII remake even though people have been telling them to make it for years. I'm sure they'd jump on it if they didn't have to use their own damn money.
Only if I can pay them 100k to have dinner with Ashton Kutcher.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Dinner? For 100K you'd be lucky to get Ashton Kutcher to tweet you.
Chris Remo
Member
Kickstarters tend to see a drastic decrease in donations after the first day, then a sharp increase towards the end of the campaign. I've observed that if a project manages to get half of its target in the first day, it's pretty much a lock to meet or exceed full funding.
Last Hearth
Member
The problem is, for many of these so-called non-profits the CEO is usually the founder or somebody closely related to the founder. So when they make a large salary it certainly calls the "non-profit" part into question.
Well, you've gone from "almost all" to "many". Maybe in three or four more posts you'll get to something accurate, like "a few" organizations abuse their 501c3 designation.
Nonprofits are fundamentally different than for-profit corps, and the fact that you heard about some guy abusing his family foundation doesn't change that.
MacGurcules
Member
From where I'm sitting, there isn't much difference. NPR has an annual pledge drive to cover their costs and then delivers ad-free, no-fee content for the rest of the year to all of its listeners regardless of whether they paid. Drawing parallels to this doesn't seem out of line to me.
That there may or may not be any money left over at the end that goes into someone's pocket means nothing to me. It was money freely given in support of something people enjoy. If they exceed what they were asking for, who am I to say they don't deserve it. Apparently all of the people contributing think they do.
Seriously. A lot of semantic gymnastics and circular reasoning to justify a point not worth defending (the whole Penny Arcade is like a non profit comparison).
My own issues with this is the main "goal" seems half assed. If they only changed the main goal to "$250,000 and we'll create 6 pages of Automota" at least it would be a product produced (though pretty anemic to something like reMind graphic novel).
As the goals are set now, plus the rewards offered, its a bit of a slap in the face to folks who are doing small webcomics/films/games that can't find the revenue anywhere else.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I actually 'reported' the page, ha. I left a pretty straightforward little message that said I think this sets a very bad precedent for Kickstarter. Wondering if they've gotten a lot of reports...
I'd imagine they're getting a good number of reports. I'm hesitant to think any of it will matter though, as PA and KS 'talked beforehand' or whatever.
What? I had issues with this but the length isn't one of them. Around 30 days is pretty common.
A few hundred thousand dollars to fund a process that takes about 10 seconds for a webmaster to accomplish. I hope this is all a joke and they just give all the money to charity..Please god let it be or I'm seriously going to question my allegiance to PA. If this goes through Kickstarter I'm expecting other corporations to come to the website asking for funds for similar BS.
Risible
Member
Is it? I guess I was mistaken then, I thought they usually ran two or three weeks tops. My bad.
Terra Firma
Banned
I really hope this fails. Things like this set a horrible precedence.
Ouya started yesterday and has 27 days to go. Defense Grid 2 started yesterday and has 33 days to go. It's pretty normal.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
I'm just looking at this from a pragmatic sense.
It comes down to this: they can run the site from via advertisers that get ads out of funding them, and the fans aren't overly affected. Or they can block the advertisers out and have their fans pay for it, and get very little (in my opinion) in return.
It's all up to the fans, and I don't really see Mike and Jerry as being malevolent with this KS, but I think I'd rather not have to pay for it out of my pocket and just have to deal with a few small, unobtrusive ads--something PA has actually been really good with. And that way, PA, the makers of content I really enjoy, make more money than if they asked fans. To me, everyone wins.
But, again, it's up to the fans if they feel this is worth it. I disagree, but I'm not in control of their wallets.
It comes down to this: they can run the site from via advertisers that get ads out of funding them, and the fans aren't overly affected. Or they can block the advertisers out and have their fans pay for it, and get very little (in my opinion) in return.
It's all up to the fans, and I don't really see Mike and Jerry as being malevolent with this KS, but I think I'd rather not have to pay for it out of my pocket and just have to deal with a few small, unobtrusive ads--something PA has actually been really good with. And that way, PA, the makers of content I really enjoy, make more money than if they asked fans. To me, everyone wins.
But, again, it's up to the fans if they feel this is worth it. I disagree, but I'm not in control of their wallets.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Wow, $300 to be followed by them on twitter
Or $1000 to be friended by them on Xbox Live.
DECISIONS!
Or $1000 to be friended by them on Xbox Live.
DECISIONS!
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Back in my day, we called it cyber begging.
Something that just struck me: how will removing one ad free up their time? Since it is such a big argument they made for this starting this. They'll still have to land ad deals to fill the other spots. In my experience, ad deals usually cover the entire site, so the deals will still have to be made. There's no time gained.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
You, quit bringing logic into this!
I remember there was a MLG pro who charged like $60 (maybe more) to be on their friends list for one month.
they also have guys that work on the site whose sole purpose is marketing
so yea, just more bullshit justification, my belief is that they looked at how much they make off ads and how much they could make of begging their fans, and saw that begging would be more profitable (that one ad space does not generate 250K a year). There's also no risk involved since once the handout money stops being better than potential ad revenue they could just switch back to ads.
It's just really, really sleazy.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Eh, they made PAX. They still have a ton of karma to burn.
Yes. The KickStarter should have been for the costs to physically create the ads not the opportunity cost of the advertising deals. It is basically a plea to the public to try to make a bid for their advertising space without PA needing to incur the costs of creating and acquiring deals with advertising partners. This is a no lose situation for PA. The only difficult part was probably convincing KS that it was in their best interest to make an exception for them. They capitalize off of the KS craze and no longer have to put resources into market research, negotiating and forming marketing partnerships, and creating unique advertisements for their site. This is a pure money gain for PA. I wonder what the competitive bid for PA's ad space will be next year. $1 Million for the top banner and $2.5 million for the whole site?
No, in fact they lose the 15 seconds the web designer needs to select and delete the ad banner code from their source.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
They added a bunch of new rewards:
$35 - Copy of Rain-Slick 3 on Steam
$150 - Be a beta tester on Rain-Slick 4 & get a copy of the game when it's released.
$1000 - Be an NPC in Rain-Slick 4
$2500 - Jerry Holkins will offer suggestions on your manuscript (novel or otherwise)
$2500 - Robert Khoo will offer suggestions on your business plan
$2500 - Mike Krahulik will offer suggestions on your art porfolio
$35 - Copy of Rain-Slick 3 on Steam
$150 - Be a beta tester on Rain-Slick 4 & get a copy of the game when it's released.
$1000 - Be an NPC in Rain-Slick 4
$2500 - Jerry Holkins will offer suggestions on your manuscript (novel or otherwise)
$2500 - Robert Khoo will offer suggestions on your business plan
$2500 - Mike Krahulik will offer suggestions on your art porfolio
Shao Kahn Going Shopping
Banned
These are just as bad as the others. :|
thank you, updated OP
Wait, so for only $7500 I can draw and write like shit, but learn how to beg for money?
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
the manuscript one especially could really be worth it if the suggestions are comprehensive
in my most humble opinion
Shao Kahn Going Shopping
Banned
I wish they'd still sell the advertising space to advertisers, keep ads, but make their money go to Child's Play instead.
Then again I guess ideally is for them not to do this at all, and have people donate to Child's Play, I just
Warkkkkk
Then again I guess ideally is for them not to do this at all, and have people donate to Child's Play, I just
Warkkkkk
How does this compare with the price of pro editors? They're pretty expensive, right?
Not really. The manuscript one could be useful for writers. Just not at the price and not for his suggestions. Tycho is a bit... uh... verbose at times and for most writers that isn't a good thing.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
that's exactly what i was thinking