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[brown646]

Every time I think I've read the dumbest post on GAF. There's always that one special chucklefuck who just makes everyone else seem like Mensa members.

I don't even want to engage in discussion with someone so dumb, like this entire post is white privilege encapsulated. Like this shit is white privilege ambered like that mosquito from Jurassic Park. This shit is so white privileged even other white people feel like minorities. This is like some Stormfront type shit. Like this is the kind of post that anti-Americans look towards to prove how sinful we are. Like this is the kind of speech someone gives troops before they're about to go slaughter an entire ethnic group and shit. Like this is some watching your mom get smacked at the dinner table type shit. Like this is the kind of shit that makes people give up on humanity on some spiritual level and shit. Like this summons the same feelings you got when you watched Macaulay Culkin drown his sister in The Good Son yo.

LOL!!!!

 

[BitStyle]

Every time I think I've read the dumbest post on GAF. There's always that one special chucklefuck who just makes everyone else seem like Mensa members.

I don't even want to engage in discussion with someone so dumb, like this entire post is white privilege encapsulated. Like this shit is white privilege ambered like that mosquito from Jurassic Park. This shit is so white privileged even other white people feel like minorities. This is like some Stormfront type shit. Like this is the kind of post that anti-Americans look towards to prove how sinful we are. Like this is the kind of speech someone gives troops before they're about to go slaughter an entire ethnic group and shit. Like this is some watching your mom get smacked at the dinner table type shit. Like this is the kind of shit that makes people give up on humanity on some spiritual level and shit. Like this summons the same feelings you got when you watched Macaulay Culkin drown his sister in The Good Son yo.

Yo this post is too real; I literally said "Damn" at this post.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Weaksauce shit from the US as per usual.

Why would white people give up their power? Give me one good reason that does not include illusions like "fair" or "right and wrong". Fair is something losers complain about when they've lost. If you're not powerful, get some willpower and make yourself powerful. Unearned power my ass, your forefathers earned that power and you inherited it because you are of their people. That's what people do, they try to make their own group succeed. I don't see it as Caucasian people's fault that other ethnic and cultural groups can't get their shit together. Even though from where I'm sitting across an ocean, Jews and the East-Asian people seem to be doing excellently. It's just a matter of finding your place in the sun and not letting others get you down. If you can't do that, then you don't deserve shit because clearly you're not strong enough to take it.

As far as taking power from powerful people goes this is probably the most subversive and underhanded way of going about it. If you want power, word hard and become powerful as a collective. It's extremely disconcerting that this cultural Marxism has infiltrated, and is now so openly being promoted in, one of the US' most vital institutions.

I do not look forward to your replies.

You mean your forefathers rigged the system, enslaved and/or discriminated against the competition, systematically destroyed the competition's general welfare by restricting opportunity (redlining, loans, etc), and now you have the audacity to tell them to pick themselves up by their bootstraps and get over it?

10 more years. Maybe 20. I can't wait until you people are no longer relevant.

 

[rocketknight]

The term "cultural Marxism" is a staple of zany far-right circlejerking and the conservative victimization complex. It's probably not worth the two and a half pages everybody has spent responding to it.

 

[Arde5643]

The term "cultural Marxism" is a staple of zany far-right circlejerking and the conservative victimization complex. It's probably not worth the two and a half pages everybody has spent responding to it.

It's a really good distillation of racist POS everywhere decrying PC, white guilt, and being defensive when called a racist POS.


On topic: you're right, though, it kinda derailed the thread a bit, but figures this type of thread would incur extreme responses from certain type of folks.

 

[Kreed]

Weaksauce shit from the US as per usual.

Why would white people give up their power? Give me one good reason that does not include illusions like "fair" or "right and wrong". Fair is something losers complain about when they've lost. If you're not powerful, get some willpower and make yourself powerful. Unearned power my ass, your forefathers earned that power and you inherited it because you are of their people. That's what people do, they try to make their own group succeed. I don't see it as Caucasian people's fault that other ethnic and cultural groups can't get their shit together. Even though from where I'm sitting across an ocean, Jews and the East-Asian people seem to be doing excellently. It's just a matter of finding your place in the sun and not letting others get you down. If you can't do that, then you don't deserve shit because clearly you're not strong enough to take it.

As far as taking power from powerful people goes this is probably the most subversive and underhanded way of going about it. If you want power, word hard and become powerful as a collective. It's extremely disconcerting that this cultural Marxism has infiltrated, and is now so openly being promoted in, one of the US' most vital institutions.

I do not look forward to your replies.

By your own logic you are the one complaining about something you lost. The US as a country and the people in charge now, a country filled with Americans of all different backgrounds and ways of life that worked hard as a collective of people, are the ones promoting this idea and earned that right by finding it's place in the sun. The "white male christian power and only white male christian power" collective lost, and by your own admission, the US has all the right to push ideals that it believes will improve itself as a country.

So stop trying to get the US down and realize you and your white power ilk lost because you are the ones that couldn't get your shit together.

 

[breakfuss]

Weaksauce shit from the US as per usual.

Why would white people give up their power? Give me one good reason that does not include illusions like "fair" or "right and wrong". Fair is something losers complain about when they've lost. If you're not powerful, get some willpower and make yourself powerful. Unearned power my ass, your forefathers earned that power and you inherited it because you are of their people. That's what people do, they try to make their own group succeed. I don't see it as Caucasian people's fault that other ethnic and cultural groups can't get their shit together. Even though from where I'm sitting across an ocean, Jews and the East-Asian people seem to be doing excellently. It's just a matter of finding your place in the sun and not letting others get you down. If you can't do that, then you don't deserve shit because clearly you're not strong enough to take it.

As far as taking power from powerful people goes this is probably the most subversive and underhanded way of going about it. If you want power, word hard and become powerful as a collective. It's extremely disconcerting that this cultural Marxism has infiltrated, and is now so openly being promoted in, one of the US' most vital institutions.

I do not look forward to your replies.

This is too subtle for my tastes. Not sure why so many believe it's sarcasm.

 

[Dark Octave]

 

[SniperHunter]

Really good article

I liked that bit about white guys not dealing with racism. They are so lucky

 

[crooked spin]

This thread really does not need everyone quoting the same inane post. That's exactly what dude is going for. C'mon.

edit: don't mean to back-seat mod. sorry.

 

[royalan]

Every time I think I've read the dumbest post on GAF. There's always that one special chucklefuck who just makes everyone else seem like Mensa members.

I don't even want to engage in discussion with someone so dumb, like this entire post is white privilege encapsulated. Like this shit is white privilege ambered like that mosquito from Jurassic Park. This shit is so white privileged even other white people feel like minorities. This is like some Stormfront type shit. Like this is the kind of post that anti-Americans look towards to prove how sinful we are. Like this is the kind of speech someone gives troops before they're about to go slaughter an entire ethnic group and shit. Like this is some watching your mom get smacked at the dinner table type shit. Like this is the kind of shit that makes people give up on humanity on some spiritual level and shit. Like this summons the same feelings you got when you watched Macaulay Culkin drown his sister in The Good Son yo.

Goddamn, Huey.

 

[User 73706]

We should get tumblr's finest social justice warriors to fight the Pentagon on this.

 

[Sai-kun]

Every time I think I've read the dumbest post on GAF. There's always that one special chucklefuck who just makes everyone else seem like Mensa members.

I don't even want to engage in discussion with someone so dumb, like this entire post is white privilege encapsulated. Like this shit is white privilege ambered like that mosquito from Jurassic Park. This shit is so white privileged even other white people feel like minorities. This is like some Stormfront type shit. Like this is the kind of post that anti-Americans look towards to prove how sinful we are. Like this is the kind of speech someone gives troops before they're about to go slaughter an entire ethnic group and shit. Like this is some watching your mom get smacked at the dinner table type shit. Like this is the kind of shit that makes people give up on humanity on some spiritual level and shit. Like this summons the same feelings you got when you watched Macaulay Culkin drown his sister in The Good Son yo.

beautiful. goddamn.

 

[Sigmond]

This piece of writing is one of many examples of the massive (and astonishing) psychological ignorance and insensitivity of those who spend all day preaching awareness and sensitivy. I find it hard to imagine that anybody who is both successful and white would not feel subtly insulted and put down by the contents of this "manual". Do its authors not realize that they're invalidating the work and effort countless successful people put in to get where they are, white or otherwise?

Statistically speaking, white people may have it easier in life by not having certain socio-economical disadvantages. But at the end of the day, there's a difference between having an advantage and not having a disadvantage. Minus and minus may equal plus in mathematics, but this is real life, where people cannot be expected to make a full accounting of all the minute benefits and handicaps they, and everybody they ever interact with, had throughout their whole lives. And you can't force this, either, not without creating mute resentment that will only sabotage your own efforts.

I am not opposed to non-discrimination and the pursuit of social justice. This is not about politics or ideology or racism, this is about use of language and about moderation. About knowing when you're making a difference, addressing true and crippling issues of racism and injustice, and when you're wasting your time and going on people's nerves spouting phrases like "assume racism is everywhere, every day" and “White males represent the haves as compared to the have-nots.” This sort of language creates an atmosphere where perfectly decent people with a working sense of fairness, people who might be on your side if only you approached without wielding a moral sledgehammer, will turn against you - because they feel attacked and villainized, their lives' achievements devalued and tainted.

The simple fact of life is: Nobody feels privileged. Everybody has their struggles. And although those struggles are far from equal, they're perceived as equal, because nobody can look into somebody else's head. Life isn't only about objective fact. It's also about perceptions and feeling and points-of-view. Egalitarians would do well to remember that and learn to accept some minor inequalities, minor injustices even, in order to get people to work with them on the larger issues.

Even in the pursuit of social justice there's marginal utility. Good intentions have to be measured with good judgement. You cannot fix all the injustices in the world. Or as a certain person of color in a leadership position used to say: "Don't make perfect the enemy of the good."

EDIT: I spent too much time writing this post, and the entire thread got derailed in the meantime. Maybe we can get it back on track.

 

[Josh7289]

The military seems to usually be ahead of the general American population in its understanding of reality.

 

[Arkos]

I knew this thread would be a hotbed for shit posts. Check the Twitters, you're famous

 

[Lamel]

Wow. This is amazingly honest and direct. I'm pretty impressed. Now if only everyone can be taught to understand what is actually being said here, and positively embrace the message, the world would be a better place instantly.

Wholeheartedly agree with this post.

 

[rocketknight]

Sigmond, so you're saying that because some white dudes will feel bad if we talk about extant systemic inequalities we shouldn't talk about extant systemic inequalities? Also, if you actually read the PDF, they mention you:

It's really easy for you to sit there and type stuff about the "marginal utility" of social justice advocacy if you're benefiting a lot from privilege, but it's kind of a bad look to tell other people what kinds of shit they have to just accept because from where you're sitting things aren't that bad.

 

[TacticalFox88]

I am the only one who finds it heavily ironic that the fucking institution practically set up to enable white privilege is the (only) so far to be extremely blunt about the situation, even calling it how it is, giving zero fucks how everyone else feels?

Jesus christ

 

[joseph1594]

This piece of writing is one of many examples of the massive (and astonishing) psychological ignorance and insensitivity of those who spend all day preaching awareness and sensitivy. I find it hard to imagine that anybody who is both successful and white would not feel subtly insulted and put down by the contents of this "manual". Do its authors not realize that they're invalidating the work and effort countless successful people put in to get where they are, white or otherwise?

Statistically speaking, white people may have it easier in life by not having certain socio-economical disadvantages. But at the end of the day, there's a difference between having an advantage and not having a disadvantage. Minus and minus may equal plus in mathematics, but this is real life, where people cannot be expected to make a full accounting of all the minute benefits and handicaps they, and everybody they ever interact with, had throughout their whole lives. And you can't force this, either, not without creating mute resentment that will only sabotage your own efforts.

I am not opposed to non-discrimination and the pursuit of social justice. This is not about politics or ideology or racism, this is about use of language and about moderation. About knowing when you're making a difference, addressing true and crippling issues of racism and injustice, and when you're wasting your time and going on people's nerves spouting phrases like "assume racism is everywhere, every day" and “White males represent the haves as compared to the have-nots.” This sort of language creates an atmosphere where perfectly decent people with a working sense of fairness, people who might be on your side if only you approached without wielding a moral sledgehammer, will turn against you - because they feel attacked and villainized, their lives' achievements devalued and tainted.

The simple fact of life is: Nobody feels privileged. Everybody has their struggles. And although those struggles are far from equal, they're perceived as equal, because nobody can look into somebody else's head. Life isn't only about objective fact. It's also about perceptions and feeling and points-of-view. Egalitarians would do well to remember that and learn to accept some minor inequalities, minor injustices even, in order to get people to work with them on the larger issues.

Even in the pursuit of social justice there's marginal utility. Good intentions have to be measured with good judgement. You cannot fix all the injustices in the world. Or as a certain person of color in a leadership position used to say: "Don't make perfect the enemy of the good."

EDIT: I spent too much time writing this post, and the entire thread got derailed in the meantime. Maybe we can get it back on track.

It is not this manual's fault if some white people grossly misinterpret what it is trying to say. Whenever white privilege is brought up, it is rarely ever trying to say that some white people who made it do not deserve their success or they should feel ashamed about what their ancestors did. Nor is it saying that white people don't struggle as well. These are just a bunch of strawmen you are making. This whole manual is about realism. Racism indeed exists and you have to be aware of it and the biases people have.

The idea that we should not discuss the high status whit people have compared to minorities because some people might feel bad is just ridiculous.

 

[G.ZZZ]

This piece of writing is one of many examples of the massive (and astonishing) psychological ignorance and insensitivity of those who spend all day preaching awareness and sensitivy. I find it hard to imagine that anybody who is both successful and white would not feel subtly insulted and put down by the contents of this "manual". Do its authors not realize that they're invalidating the work and effort countless successful people put in to get where they are, white or otherwise?

Statistically speaking, white people may have it easier in life by not having certain socio-economical disadvantages. But at the end of the day, there's a difference between having an advantage and not having a disadvantage. Minus and minus may equal plus in mathematics, but this is real life, where people cannot be expected to make a full accounting of all the minute benefits and handicaps they, and everybody they ever interact with, had throughout their whole lives. And you can't force this, either, not without creating mute resentment that will only sabotage your own efforts.

I am not opposed to non-discrimination and the pursuit of social justice. This is not about politics or ideology or racism, this is about use of language and about moderation. About knowing when you're making a difference, addressing true and crippling issues of racism and injustice, and when you're wasting your time and going on people's nerves spouting phrases like "assume racism is everywhere, every day" and “White males represent the haves as compared to the have-nots.” This sort of language creates an atmosphere where perfectly decent people with a working sense of fairness, people who might be on your side if only you approached without wielding a moral sledgehammer, will turn against you - because they feel attacked and villainized, their lives' achievements devalued and tainted.

The simple fact of life is: Nobody feels privileged. Everybody has their struggles. And although those struggles are far from equal, they're perceived as equal, because nobody can look into somebody else's head. Life isn't only about objective fact. It's also about perceptions and feeling and points-of-view. Egalitarians would do well to remember that and learn to accept some minor inequalities, minor injustices even, in order to get people to work with them on the larger issues.

Even in the pursuit of social justice there's marginal utility. Good intentions have to be measured with good judgement. You cannot fix all the injustices in the world. Or as a certain person of color in a leadership position used to say: "Don't make perfect the enemy of the good."

EDIT: I spent too much time writing this post, and the entire thread got derailed in the meantime. Maybe we can get it back on track.

Thank you. No one will ever feel like they have it good, especially not when their children aren't finding work, their pensions are disappearing, and their social benefits are going down and down. People that have it "worse" than you have always existed and they'll always exist for simple statistical reasons, and it has never stopped anyone from feeling like a shit in life. You aren't doing anything useful saying "assume your whole life was easy" because it wasn't.

 

[Arde5643]

It's quite awesome how the manual already includes the most common defensive responses from certain people who are mighty defensive when white privilege is being brought into light.

 

[Htown]

The fact that an implied subtle insult is the shit that you have to worry about is proof enough of privilege, if I'm being real.

oh my god, someone might imply that you benefit from hundreds of years of history and current systemic biases that were and are slanted toward people of your ethnicity and against people of another ethnicity

that shit is ROUGH

 

[Riposte]

spuit*11 if you at least understand that "fair" is a bullshit concept people use to make themselves feel better, then I'm surprised you would be emotionally invested in what the American government does (when it doesn't pertain to you). It was, on the surface, built to achieve semi-religious ideals such as "justice", "fairness", "equality" etc.

 

[Exr]

Thank you. No one will ever feel like they have it good, especially not when their children aren't finding work, their pensions are disappearing, and their social benefits are going down and down. People that have it "worse" than you have always existed and they'll always exist for simple statistical reasons, and it has never stopped anyone from feeling like a shit in life. You aren't doing anything useful saying "assume your whole life was easy" because it wasn't.

Nobody is telling white people to shut up and accept that their life is easy. Absolutely people are dealt different hands in life and some get real bad ones, whites included. I hope people can get past the seemingly condescending nature of the words used such as 'privileged' and see the greater issue here. The way society has formed over the years has created an environment where certain people have more social freedoms/leeway to do what they want. Stopping institutionalized racism is a big step, and it requires some harsh words for certain people to sometimes stray away from their ingratiated thoughts about the racial situation.

 

[jerry1594]

The military seems to usually be ahead of the general American population in its understanding of reality.

The military is like a public company, it's not in their best interest to alienate anyone. Although this policy would probably disgruntle some white people.

 

[hipbabboom]

The subject of racism is an ugly one. Every time you discover it or its hinted at somewhere you didn't expect to find it, its an often demoralizing experience. For example, the whole Sylvester Stallone thing I read about here this morning really brought me down because I grew up liking that guys movies. Nevertheless, I'm better off knowing than not knowing and I think America is worst off not wanting to know or talk of racism STILL existing.

 

[KingK]

Good on the Pentagon. Can't wait for conservatives to bitch about this so I can play the "why do you hate our military?" card lol.

The fact that people deny that being a healthy white heterosexual male comes with a fucking ton of unearned privilege actually makes me angry. And I'm speaking as a healthy white heterosexual male. It's an infuriatingly dishonest worldview.

Good on the military for getting honest with it.

Yeah, as a white heterosexual male, some of the shit other white people will say regarding race when only other white people are around is shocking. Even people I would never expect to say dumb shit end up spewing stupidity. Like, at least 75% of the time other white people talk to me about race I mentally facepalm. The average person's ignorance to their privilege and the denial that racism is still a factor in America is just infuriating. I've lived in a very rural and conservative state my whole life though, so that probably has something to do with it.

 

[Arde5643]

The subject of racism is an ugly one. Every time you discover it or its hinted at somewhere you didn't expect to find it, its an often demoralizing experience. For example, the whole Sylvester Stallone thing I read about here this morning really brought me down because I grew up liking that guys movies. Nevertheless, I'm better off knowing than not knowing and I think America is worst off not wanting to know or talk of racism STILL existing.

I think you can still like Stallone even knowing that he can be a racist - I don't think there's ever any documented outright racist acts by Stallone besides throwing this n word to the paparazzi unlike the whole anti-Semitic spiel by Gibson.

He might be a bit racist but he's very very far away from the full blown violent racism of Republicans.
People got flaws, some get better, some don't - hopefully most aren't assholes.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Every time I think I've read the dumbest post on GAF. There's always that one special chucklefuck who just makes everyone else seem like Mensa members.

I don't even want to engage in discussion with someone so dumb, like this entire post is white privilege encapsulated. Like this shit is white privilege ambered like that mosquito from Jurassic Park. This shit is so white privileged even other white people feel like minorities. This is like some Stormfront type shit. Like this is the kind of post that anti-Americans look towards to prove how sinful we are. Like this is the kind of speech someone gives troops before they're about to go slaughter an entire ethnic group and shit. Like this is some watching your mom get smacked at the dinner table type shit. Like this is the kind of shit that makes people give up on humanity on some spiritual level and shit. Like this summons the same feelings you got when you watched Macaulay Culkin drown his sister in The Good Son yo.

 

[Valhelm]

Very impressive. This is a huge step forward in the right direction.

 

[KingK]

The fact that an implied subtle insult is the shit that you have to worry about is proof enough of privilege, if I'm being real.

oh my god, someone might imply that you benefit from hundreds of years of history and current systemic biases that were and are slanted toward people of your ethnicity and against people of another ethnicity

that shit is ROUGH

In a lot of these peoples' heads, white people are unfairly blamed for everything wrong today while minorities are given an advantage by the government in school and the workplace just because of past racism that hasn't existed since the Civil Rights act ended it 50 years ago. They think they're somehow being punished for their ancestors actions.

Of course that's all bullshit that falls apart if you actually know anything about the real world, but when that's what you're told by family, teachers, peers, etc. your whole life growing up and you don't put in any effort into researching things that might challenge that view, that's where you end up. To be honest, even I thought like that for a time, until I turned like 13 or 14 and started frequenting the internet and forums and exposing myself to opposing viewpoints.

 

[catmincer]

This is actually impressive. I am loathe to share from Fox news though as I know people who really need to read this.

 

[Sigmond]

It's really easy for you to sit there and type stuff about the "marginal utility" of social justice advocacy if you're benefiting a lot from privilege, but it's kind of a bad look to tell other people what kinds of shit they have to just accept because from where you're sitting things aren't that bad.

This is exactly what I mean. I try to make a point, and you immediately talk about my privilege, without knowing who I am. Well, I am neither rich nor powerful nor influential, that's for sure, nor are countless other people who get increasingly irritated by the sort of language used to describe them and their "privilege". The word "privilege" has been given a completely new meaning in the past years. That's highly problematic. If one group uses a certain word to describe members of another group, but both groups have different definitions of the words, that's a failure to communicate, and that will lead to a failure of politics.

And that is the problem what America is facing right now: A continuous and much-bemoaned failure of politics. Different factions can hardly speak to each other, everybody assumes the worst about the other side, and nobody is willing to give an inch. Republicans are especially bad about this, admittedly, but that's because they feel like they're being put on the defensive. They're faced with a united front of liberals, academics and activists who keep telling them what terrible people they are (or at least that's what they're hearing). Small wonder they keep complaining about liberal media.

The social justice movement has invested vast amounts of time and research into proving that they're right. Good. They are right. Few reasonable people contest that. But no matter how right you are, and how manifest the inequality, you can't keep beating on the same drum and expect people not to get a little tired of you. Not if you don't acknowledge the successes already achieved. You don't need "white history month" or such nonsense to do that. Just take a breath, look the redneck or the Republican or the WASP or whoever you deem privileged in the eye and say: "We've come a long way."

I suppose "marginal utility" was a bad choice of words that made me look detached and, ahem, privileged. The point I was trying to make is that any sort of social justice movement should focus on the "hard" problems. On crime, on drugs, on homelessness, on actual, honest-to-god discrimination and racism. Not on all those buzzwords mentioned in the OP. How many successful black people, do you think, care about the notion that they owe their success to "strong allies to people of color", and not their own efforts? Not very many, I assume.

Most people know how not to be racist, how not to be sexist, how not to be dicks. They don't need a bloody manual. And the ones who do need it will never read it anyway.

 

[kick51]

Pentagon spitting some truth and presenting it very plainly. I like that.

how are the repli--NOPE.JPG

 

[TacticalFox88]

Somewhere Tim Wise had an orgasm.

 

[ISOM]

This is actually impressive. I am loathe to share from Fox news though as I know people who really need to read this.

It's probably why you should share, people who need to read this are probably avid fox news viewers.

 

[duckroll]

Most people know how not to be racist, how not to be sexist, how not to be dicks. They don't need a bloody manual. And the ones who do need it will never read it anyway.

I dunno...

 

[The Adder]

This is exactly what I mean. I try to make a point, and you immediately talk about my privilege, without knowing who I am. Well, I am neither rich nor powerful nor influential, that's for sure, nor are countless other people who get increasingly irritated by the sort of language used to describe them and their "privilege".

And also:

 

[ivysaur12]

I'm confused where the controversial aspect is?

 

[rocketknight]

This is exactly what I mean. I try to make a point, and you immediately talk about my privilege, without knowing who I am. Well, I am neither rich nor powerful nor influential, that's for sure, nor are countless other people who get increasingly irritated by the sort of language used to describe them and their "privilege". The word "privilege" has been given a completely new meaning in the past years. That's highly problematic. If one group uses a certain word to describe members of another group, but both groups have different definitions of the words, that's a failure to communicate, and that will lead to a failure of politics.

And that is the problem what America is facing right now: A continuous and much-bemoaned failure of politics. Different factions can hardly speak to each other, everybody assumes the worst about the other side, and nobody is willing to give an inch. Republicans are especially bad about this, admittedly, but that's because they feel like they're being put on the defensive. They're faced with a united front of liberals, academics and activists who keep telling them what terrible people they are (or at least that's what they're hearing). Small wonder they keep complaining about liberal media.

The social justice movement has invested vast amounts of time and research into proving that they're right. Good. They are right. Few reasonable people contest that. But no matter how right you are, and how manifest the inequality, you can't keep beating on the same drum and expect people not to get a little tired of you. Not if you don't acknowledge the successes already achieved. You don't need "white history month" or such nonsense to do that. Just take a breath, look the redneck or the Republican or the WASP or whoever you deem privileged in the eye and say: "We've come a long way."

I suppose "marginal utility" was a bad choice of words that made me look detached and, ahem, privileged. The point I was trying to make is that any sort of social justice movement should focus on the "hard" problems. On crime, on drugs, on homelessness, on actual, honest-to-god discrimination and racism. Not on all those buzzwords mentioned in the OP. How many successful black people, do you think, care about the notion that they owe their success to "strong allies to people of color", and not their own efforts? Not very many, I assume.

Most people know how not to be racist, how not to be sexist, how not to be dicks. They don't need a bloody manual. And the ones who do need it will never read it anyway.

I really don't think that the language we use is a worse problem than the systemic oppression we're describing with it, and it's really patronizing to chime in with what you think feminists and other activists should "focus" on. We've come a long way in even the past ten years, and pretty much all of this progress is thanks to the people speaking up and working for equality and not the people complaining about them.

 

[Arde5643]

Most people know how not to be racist, how not to be sexist, how not to be dicks. They don't need a bloody manual. And the ones who do need it and have read it will continue to deny it anyway.

Your post from the get-go kinda invalidates this summary at the end but I fixed the italicized quote since I'm such a nice guy.

I'm confused where the controversial aspect is?

Only for certain folks that you can find a couple of posts here in there in the thread.

 

[J10]

This is exactly what I mean. I try to make a point, and you immediately talk about my privilege, without knowing who I am. Well, I am neither rich nor powerful nor influential, that's for sure, nor are countless other people who get increasingly irritated by the sort of language used to describe them and their "privilege". The word "privilege" has been given a completely new meaning in the past years. That's highly problematic. If one group uses a certain word to describe members of another group, but both groups have different definitions of the words, that's a failure to communicate, and that will lead to a failure of politics.

And that is the problem what America is facing right now: A continuous and much-bemoaned failure of politics. Different factions can hardly speak to each other, everybody assumes the worst about the other side, and nobody is willing to give an inch. Republicans are especially bad about this, admittedly, but that's because they feel like they're being put on the defensive. They're faced with a united front of liberals, academics and activists who keep telling them what terrible people they are (or at least that's what they're hearing). Small wonder they keep complaining about liberal media.

The social justice movement has invested vast amounts of time and research into proving that they're right. Good. They are right. Few reasonable people contest that. But no matter how right you are, and how manifest the inequality, you can't keep beating on the same drum and expect people not to get a little tired of you. Not if you don't acknowledge the successes already achieved. You don't need "white history month" or such nonsense to do that. Just take a breath, look the redneck or the Republican or the WASP or whoever you deem privileged in the eye and say: "We've come a long way."

I suppose "marginal utility" was a bad choice of words that made me look detached and, ahem, privileged. The point I was trying to make is that any sort of social justice movement should focus on the "hard" problems. On crime, on drugs, on homelessness, on actual, honest-to-god discrimination and racism. Not on all those buzzwords mentioned in the OP. How many successful black people, do you think, care about the notion that they owe their success to "strong allies to people of color", and not their own efforts? Not very many, I assume.

Most people know how not to be racist, how not to be sexist, how not to be dicks. They don't need a bloody manual. And the ones who do need it will never read it anyway.

The point is you don't need to know any individual's struggles or lack thereof. The issue is systemic and institutional. It's not personal. And it absolutely would not kill a straight white guy to simply acknowledge that they have a leg up on their gay colored female counterparts. It's a thought check, that's all. Doesn't change the fact that you may be a hard worker or a good student or a charitable person. All it is is the acknowledgement that (if you are a straight white guy) people who are not like you still have to be better than you just to be equal to you. All you have to do is nod and let us know you know it's happening, and hopefully with that nod comes an understanding of how you can have an impact in that system. You don't have to interpret it as a personal insult, because it's so not that. I promise, it's not that.

 

[Suikoguy]

I'm confused where the controversial aspect is?

Did you notice where it was posted?

 

[theignoramus]

The term "cultural Marxism" is a staple of zany far-right circlejerking and the conservative victimization complex. It's probably not worth the two and a half pages everybody has spent responding to it.

guy sounds like a fan of Ayn Rand

 

[Arkos]

I'm confused where the controversial aspect is?

I don't think there is one as it relates to the content. More just kind of bewilderment that it's officially acknowledged as it continues to happen

 

[muddream]

Why isn't there a section on how to overcome straight white male privilege? This manual isn't helpful for the people most in need at all.

 

[Unbounded]

And also:

You're making a bunch of potentially wrong assumptions about the person you're responding to by posting those.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Nobody is telling white people to shut up and accept that their life is easy. Absolutely people are dealt different hands in life and some get real bad ones, whites included. I hope people can get past the seemingly condescending nature of the words used such as 'privileged' and see the greater issue here. The way society has formed over the years has created an environment where certain people have more social freedoms/leeway to do what they want. Stopping institutionalized racism is a big step, and it requires some harsh words for certain people to sometimes stray away from their ingratiated thoughts about the racial situation.

This rethoric is not something "apparently" condescending, it's a textbook example of rich people pitting poors one against another, and convincing them that the reason they aren't successful is that they're not white, or, in case they're white, that they're just "temporary embarrassed millionnaires" and socialism is bad, taxes are bad, rich create jobs, so they can count their dollars and laugh while we're here discussing the fine details of what is actually racism and whatsnot.

Let me put this in another way. Do you actually believe someone think is okay being racist? Do you think anyone would openly admit at being one? The answer is no, because racism is already percieved as not acceptable in our society.
Why do you think then there's still, how do you call it, casual racism or whatsnot? Economic reasons. The same reasons people in europe are racists against Roma. It's not because they dance to shitty songs. It's because they're mostly an extremely poor group of individual who have to resort more or less to begging, stealing and other kinds of socially rephrensible acts. Your brain then tend to classify all of them in an archetype, and thus your attitude toward them change. The same is true for many kinds of populations, and it's also why you tend to have less racism against asians immigrants for example, because they are on average more economical successful, not because you find them more to your liking.
I'm pretty sure you could even find a relation between how much racism is being percieved by a racial group and how that racial group stand economically. What many people think is that racism attitudes are creating a disadvantaged class today. What i'm arguing is that the opposite is in fact true, because if racism is not accepted by most of society, then what remains is not some kind of arbitrary skin color discrimination, and the usage of racist slurs or terminology is just hiding the fact.
Yes i know that racism in the past created a disadvantaged social group (this is true mostly in america), but you have to keep in mind that is true of everyone but a top 1% in every country, because by far and large we're all descendant of what once were slaves of feudals barons, or bondsmen. We're all brothers that are descendant of slaves by a far and large parts of the population, and instead we're all fast to condemn the fact that someone's being called an N word and not the fact that said population is the one most economically suffering in the US since basically forever.

 

[FODEA]

All it is is the acknowledgement that (if you are a straight white guy) people who are not like you still have to be better than you just to be equal to you.

The problem I have with discussions on race is inevitably people say stuff like this.

On the one side you have people say there's no problem. On the other side you have people like J10 who think there is a problem and it is absolutely without a doubt everywhere.

Thanks to the internet - blogs and forums the two sides interact less and take their views even further to the extremes.

As for the manual itself - it's not impressive. How many manuals, documents did you 'read' when you signed up to work somewhere? I 'read' a ton because I was dealing with confidential information and money.

No, this manual will not change anything in a positive way. It's a feel good piece where people with liberal arts degrees justify their degrees (nothing wrong with that even though it sounds bad). And the people who read it and already agreed with it before they read it will enjoy it as well. So there's an enjoyment/justification deal going on with the manual.

So essentially this manual and the reporting of it by news outlets just entrenches the two sides even further.

What does this manual mean for the officers doing their jobs and investigating complaints, educating others? Nothing really. They'll probably ignore it entirely.

If they don't and take it seriously? They spend much more time on complaints, allegations than in the past.

In other words they become more like public defenders (overworked) or an HR department in love with their processes. Instead of addressing complaints, investigating and reporting to their bosses - they investigate and investigate and investigate because according to the manual, something must be there even though they can't find it yet.

If this office actually finds in favor of literally every complaint by a non-whitemale and then reports that to the Pentagon - they'll be laughed out of the building. They need to prove discrimination at least somewhat and not that the person was disadvantaged because of their ethnicity.

So TLR - this isn't impressive, it's words with no action. No practical value here.