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People are generally very unwilling to help.
- Thread starter Zakalwe
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anonymous_abc
Member
No Roy from IT Crowd yet?
CosmicQueso
Member
The real learning here is never agree to perform hard labor all day for a friend for free.
In any case, the train guard was willing to help, but I guess that's just being glossed over to focus on the negativity of other people not wanting to get scammed and a bit of self pity and moral superiority.
In any case, the train guard was willing to help, but I guess that's just being glossed over to focus on the negativity of other people not wanting to get scammed and a bit of self pity and moral superiority.
To all those saying "oldest trick in the book, etc..", does it not make any difference that:
1. I was clean, pretty damn presentable, articulate, etc...
2. Offering for people to hold my passport/own phone (both of which are pretty new and in great condition).
3. It was in a brightly lit area with tonnes of security.
I mean, I get the scam is real, but I wouldn't even think twice about helping if presented with all of the above.
It was poor use of it.
1. I was clean, pretty damn presentable, articulate, etc...
2. Offering for people to hold my passport/own phone (both of which are pretty new and in great condition).
3. It was in a brightly lit area with tonnes of security.
I mean, I get the scam is real, but I wouldn't even think twice about helping if presented with all of the above.
It was poor use of it.
entremet
Member
Sho_Nuff82
Member
You keep going on about looking presentable, totally oblivious that it makes your story harder to believe. No one is going to believe that a guy who is well dressed and well spoken is actually hard up for cash. The cops would have told you to stop panhandling and harassing people (in NYC and Boston at least).
No one cares about your (possibly fake) passport or your (possibly dead) phone as collateral when you're weighing the decision of a stranger running off with the most expensive thing you own. Had you offered up a nice watch they might have laughed in your face, as it's a classic scam.
Your best bet in such a scenario is to find a local coffee shop, get some phone charge, and rearrange your funds using your mobile access. If people are hesitant to give $5 to someone who looks like they actually need it, why would they give it to someone who obviously doesn't?
I don't think it's that people are unwilling to help, I think it's down to the fact of where you were and what you were doing.
I've had many people asking for a few quid to get the bus home etc in Central London. My initial reaction is scam.
What happened with your card in the end? How many cash machines did you try? Your story defintely shows you must have had some bad luck that night, no cash at all is plausible as I rarely have any (use my card to pay for everything) but it's a combination of everything, no battery, your bank card not working at all. What I would have done in your situation knowing I was travelling home late and didn't have a chance to charge my phone is I'd have turned it off so I had battery just incase. I'd also have possibly looked for a phonebox and reversed charges to a f riend or family.
With regards to helping you, I think most people are scared nowadays, it's like if you were being beaten up in the street most people would keep walking as they would be worried about being hurt themselves.
Or if someone see's a hitchiker many people would worry about it being a murderer or something.
You do get the odd person that helps but they are a minority.
Sure, there's a chance it could be a scam. The chances are pretty fucking slim that all of the above will result in a scam, though.
I mean, someone could be walking around with a very well made fake iphone AND a perfect passport in a crowded area full of security and cameras with the intent of trying to run away with your shit, but imo the chances of that are very low.
It was paid work. Just not cash in hand.
Brianimaniac
Banned
No, it was pretty obvious.
this goes both ways, most people asking for money/help are trying to scam you somehow
Also, as you said, yesterday was hot and, like you, people wanted to just get home. Once they got to the station they entered auto pilot and just wanted to get on the train. They probably didn't even listen to a word you said and just let off their standard response they give all people who try to talk to them in the public.
I think the fact that you were presentable probably played against you.
People probably thought you'd have money.
I'd be more inclined to give money to someone that looks rotten and stinks.
I may be opening a can of worms here but if you were an attractive female I wonder what the response would have been?
Shalashaska
Member
I'd be more willing to help someone at 1 pm instead of 10 pm.
Maybe you weren't as presentable as you thought! In all seriousness, a proper presentation just makes a scam easier to pull off - it doesn't imply unscamminess. Passport/phone also could very well be part of the scam.
As for the presence of security, maybe talking to security would have been the better thing to do rather than asking random strangers
No, because:
1. Scammers and thieves can be clean, presented and articulated because otherwise they'd be pretty shitty scammers and theives. They aren't idiots, they're not going to look like criminals. And people aren't idiots either - they're going to assume that the scammer and thief is going to do his best to not look suspicious.
2. Passports can be faked. Do you yourself feels confident that you can tell a real passport from a fake one on the spot? The phone can be a broken prop, if you're out of battery there's not way to tell either way.
3. That's where scammers and pickpockets are the most active! They know that people are much more on their guard in a dark alleyway and much soften targets somewhere they feel safe.
Not to mention that train stations in particular are literal hotbeds for them. Frankly, you couldn't have picked a worse place to avoid looking like a scammer.
Jezbollah
Member
Yep, London basically. The problem is that there are so many people that come up to you asking for money or to borrow your phone - most have good intent but it's always those who cause trouble that put people off.
Sorry you had to go through that experience OP, but people are generally hesitant for a reason.
Sorry you had to go through that experience OP, but people are generally hesitant for a reason.
I'm not hard-up for cash, though. Which was very clearly explained to people.
Looks like the majority here agree, but with all the things I listed I'd help in a heartbeat.
As I said before, lent phone, charger, laptop to people numerous times in London and never had an issue.
Scammers making the effort to look presentable, carry a fake/dead phone, etc... are (I'm very certain) going to be tiny in number compared to people who legitimately find themselves in difficult situations like this.
15 years living in London. 95% of all people who've approached me have been destitute, the rest have been normal looking people and I've never, ever had an issue lending/helping.
Scams are real, but I think it's very clear when the chances of the situation being a scam are low enough to alleviate concern.
There were no shops open at that time. I was planning on walking around pubs next, but luckily the guard let me through before I had to.
Card is dead. I had an issue with it in a reader last week, but I thought it was a one off. I've offered a new one.
It really was a serious of specific, really fucking unfortunate events.
I'll definitely be more aware of this possibility in the future, that's for sure.
Already Torn
Banned
I wouldn't have helped you either OP. I would have pointed you to a location with a public phone available, like a hospital or something. It's kind of unreasonable for you to ask otherwise. I think normally complete strangers help me out when I ask for stuff like that, but I wouldn't blame them if they didn't. In your case it might be a race thing? Or you're really socially awkward/creepy?
Maybe they thought like the kind of guy who would sleep outside of a bank?
Maybe they thought like the kind of guy who would sleep outside of a bank?
Hot damn a lot of you are paranoid. I've never once run into this in many major cities in the States. If you explain yourself calmly and it's literally just, "I need to get home," I've seen so many people just shrug and help the person out. Maybe don't make a habit out of it, but at worst you're out a few bucks.
Especially if you just slap the money on their transit card. The hell can they actually do with that other than get on the transit?
Especially if you just slap the money on their transit card. The hell can they actually do with that other than get on the transit?
Maximus P
Member
I once gave £3.50 to a women with a young child in Manchester Centre after she gave me a story of how she lost her purse and needed money to get home.......
30 minutes later I saw her again asking someone else the exact same thing.
I've done a fair few good deeds for strangers, but I've been stung too.
It's not that people are unhelpful OP, its that there are so many c**ts out there trying to rip you off that its very hard to be trusting to strangers.
30 minutes later I saw her again asking someone else the exact same thing.
I've done a fair few good deeds for strangers, but I've been stung too.
It's not that people are unhelpful OP, its that there are so many c**ts out there trying to rip you off that its very hard to be trusting to strangers.
I'm confident I was. All new clothes, very clean. Standard middle-class looking guy.
I did ask security. They told me to go to the ticket office, I did and they told me to ask security. Security were very, very busy dealing with about 200 people stuck at the station due to 95% of trains being cancelled, too.
In hindsight, I should have asked a member of transport police to either come with me while I approached people, or even to ask them to use their phone. My experience of them has been overwhelmingly positive, they've always gone out of their way to help me in the past.
I wasn't thinking very clearly, I'd been up since 5am and was exhausted.
Again, I'm almost positive the chances of running into a scam this committed Vs. people who find themselves in situations like these is going to be incredibly low.
Why do you assume I didn't try my card enough to know it was clearly dead?
I don't think people are worried about losing a few bucks, more the fact of it being an intro to a bigger scam.
Like one that happens is people come up to you and ask for the time, nowadays what do you think most people do? Pull out their phone. Then bye bye they snatch it out your hands.
you are going to get scammed someday
Yeah, I wouldn't have given you anything either. If I gave out cash to every dude on the subway with a sob story I'd be broke pretty quick, and I'm not handing my phone over to a stranger.
And the "young and articulate" thing isn't helping. I'd be way more inclined to give to someone that obviously needs it.
And the "young and articulate" thing isn't helping. I'd be way more inclined to give to someone that obviously needs it.
MrS
Banned
Because bank cards don't just go from working to broken and the common sense thing would be to try the card on a few machines before begging strangers for cash.
This is the only thing I'd probably be willing to do. I feel a lot better being charitable when I know exactly what my money is going towards. I'm more apt to give a hungry person some of my food than I am willing to give them some money they may or may not spend on what they say they need it for.
If the OP had come up to me in a train station and asked for a few bucks on their metro card, I might have obliged, but I certainly wouldn't judge those that don't help me were I the OP in the same situation.
Well, clearly they do.
Maybe. 35 years so far and no scam. I'm not stupid about it, I assess the situation first.
I'm fairly confident I won't be, but of course anything's possible.
The Albatross
Member
Sadly, OP, this sounds like such a common scam that I've been scammed for before, and we've had threads about it here... "My phone is dead and if I had $2 I could take a cab to the train station... etc" When I was 23 or 24, a guy who seemed like an honest guy who was just stuck across town got me for $10... I think because it was my birthday I was feeling charitable, but he said his car was busted at the Super Market across the street, and he was trying to grab the train back to his house about 30mins away. He knew a lot about the area and told me that he felt horrible asking. I had $10, I was feeling charitable, I gave it to him, he was really thankful. Took me about 10 minutes to realize I had definitely just been scammed. And then about a week later I saw him following this elderly guy through the parking lot of the super market doing the same thing he did to me, and I was really mad about it. I interrupted them talking and asked if his car was broken again, the old guy high-taield it to his car and this scammer took heel and ran away from me. I was pretty pissed that he targets the elderly.
It's really common scam unfortunately and I can't fault people for being weary of being scammed. For most people, the idea of having no cash, no ability to pay for anything (e.g., no credit card or line of credit), no cell phone, no way to contact anybody and being in a place where you're not able to connect with anybody you know, is a very rare situation... yet it's a very common explanation for people who are scamming others.
To be honest if I was in your situation I wouldn't even be able to approach people and ask for money. In Central London as you know you're walking distance to many train stations, I'd have simply walked to one with barriers open and "jumped" the train.
As someone mentioned already many stations eventually open their barriers eventually anyway (especially late at night)
As someone mentioned already many stations eventually open their barriers eventually anyway (especially late at night)
Doesn't matter, people are paranoid. Even if they help 10 people by lending them their phone without incident it's not going to make up for the 11th where the guy runs off with it. Low risk, high consequence.
I help random strangers all the time, but this is kinda too iffy even for me. Lending someone my phone or giving someone money raises too many red flags. Especially at a train station. I might have offered to make the call for you if I had the time but, that's about my limit.
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
I dont think i have ever visited a train station that didnt have someone asking for money for something. How was someone supposed to know you actually needed help vs. just trying to get some free money?
I would not have handed you my phone for a second! You could have turned and ran off in an instant and now im out of 500 bucks. Phones are very expensive, even if 100 people didnt run off with my phone if the 101st did then im in a hole. Also people usually dont carry their chargers with them so that request would have been a bust also.
I would not have handed you my phone for a second! You could have turned and ran off in an instant and now im out of 500 bucks. Phones are very expensive, even if 100 people didnt run off with my phone if the 101st did then im in a hole. Also people usually dont carry their chargers with them so that request would have been a bust also.
Didn't you make multiple threads about being scammed by friends or roommates, or am I thinking of someone else?
Them offering a passport too would have made me even less inclined to give them money.
Someone else mentioned that if someone asks for money for a puropose they're more inclined to just fulfill that purpose i.e if they're hungry give them food, or for a train ticket buy the ticket.
It reminded me of something a work colleague done, we had walked out of a supermarket and a homeless guy was asking for money to feed his dog, so he walked back in the shop and bought him a pouch of dog food. The guy actually looked shocked (but not in a good way)
Again, I'm very aware of this.
How many times in your life have you been approached by a middle-class looking person, offering hard to fake collateral (passport/new iphone), while being clean and presentable and articulate?
I find it very hard to believe peopel have run into people like this odften enough to be wary. As I said, I've lived in London for 15 years and 95% of people who;ve approached me asking the same have been very clearly destitute and offered no collateral at all.
While it could be a scam, personally I think the chances in this specific situation of it being a scam are ridiculously low.
Unless you all encounter middle class looking people running these kinds of well committed scams often enough to be /this/ cautious?
What does that have to do with this?
It's a completely different situation, has absolutely no bearing on this at all.
This isn't true at all. Barriers are almost always up in London. Jumping a barrier runs the risk of arrest, criminal charges, etc...
Sunday evenings you can find barriers down often, but stations within walking distance of London Bridge? Very, very unlikely.
I live in a cashless society.
If people ask for food though. I buy them something.
Maybe the OP trusts strangers more than his friends?
Or maybe they just wanted to make a rant thread and slap a judgment of humanity on top and then talk about how smart they are.
teruterubozu
Member
You keep hammering this, but many con artists are very presentable. Anyway, maybe if you looked more desperate people may have helped you.
keltickennedy
Member
Sounds like a shitty day OP. I also live in a city. At least once a day I get asked for spare change or someone will ask to use my phone. I usually dont carry cash so I never give anyone spare change. When someone asks to use my phone I will ask them who they need to get a hold of and what the number is so I can dial it. Most of the times they cant make anything up quickly so they then ignore me. Thats usually a sign that they were going to try swiping my phone.
The Albatross
Member
I edited my post a minute later after posting... This situation happened almost exactly to me about 8 years ago, and it was a nice, honest looking, middle-class guy who convinced me he was in a tough spot. This guy even flashed me his Veterans authority card (mentioned he was a veteran)... He was convincing enough and I was feeling charitable enough.
Unfortunately, it's just really common. And, sadly, this guy was also a predator, going after the elderly as they left a super market.
Also with regard to using phones, that's a common refrain unfortunately too. "Hey, can I use your phone, I need to make a call to my buddy to pick me up..." and then when you say "sorry, man," they say, "Oh, well do you have a few bucks so I can use a payphone?"
It's too bad, but honestly if you approached me I'd likely have done the same or not given you the time of day because it just sounds so familiar.
MrS
Banned
OP needs to make some lifestyle changes and stop getting himself in to bad situations.
The point is that anyone can scam you, even friends that appear nice to you at first, much less a random stranger, no matter how "presentable". Appearance means squat. For scammers, it is used to lower the victim's guard. You are fixated on how good your presentation was, whereas for other people that could constitute a red flag.
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