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Persona 5 - PV 04 [New Trailer]

eyeball_kid said:
Well, a "PS4 game" in my mind doesn't have aliasing everywhere. It's not like they're taxing the GPU so much that they couldn't throw some FSAA on there.

Watching the video in the Catherine thread with Catherine and P5 footage side by side made it clear that Catherine on the PS3 looks as good as P5 on the PS4, and better in places (going by the footage we've seen so far).
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None of that matters when it comes to jrpg's. The color, the style, the art is what is on display here. The technical limitations or deficiencies are of no consequence to the core of the game and whether or not it's good.

It doesn't have to or need to be 60fps, perfectly aliased, etc... None of that stuff matters. It doesn't detract from the experience and is thusly of little relevance.
 
Crimsonsky said:
None of that matters when it comes to jrpg's. The color, the style, the art is what is on display here. The technical limitations or deficiencies are of no consequence to the core of the game and whether or not it's good.

It doesn't have to or need to be 60fps, perfectly aliased, etc... None of that stuff matters. It doesn't detract from the experience and is thusly of little relevance.
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Not to mention Catherine being very confined, with the best looking place arguably being the Stray Sheep itself, which is essentially a single room. This is in comparison to the entire city of Tokyo in P5.

Can't believe people care so much, probably the best looking game I'll have played in my eyes for many years to come. Aesthetically, nothing comes close
 
ar4757 said:
Not to mention Catherine being very confined, with the best looking place arguably being the Stray Sheep itself, which is essentially a single room. This is in comparison to the entire city of Tokyo in P5.

Can't believe people care so much, probably the best looking game I'll have played in my eyes for many years to come. Aesthetically, nothing comes close
Click to expand...

Im just sitting here shaking my head about the "forest for the trees" angle.

It's been the way of the development world for over a decade by now, and its only going to get harsher.
 
After listening to the new Igor voice like an obscene amount of times. It feels really miscast.
I understand that they probably wanted a totally different voice so it doesn't get super compared to the old one as a new interpretation but it's just way too deep.

It just doesn't fit for me. Nothing too tragic but Tanonaka was just too perfect. Rest in Peace.
 
Crimsonsky said:
None of that matters when it comes to jrpg's. The color, the style, the art is what is on display here. The technical limitations or deficiencies are of no consequence to the core of the game and whether or not it's good.

It doesn't have to or need to be 60fps, perfectly aliased, etc... None of that stuff matters. It doesn't detract from the experience and is thusly of little relevance.
Click to expand...

Well while I don't mind games not pushing visuals to the maximum it would be nice to at least get proper anti-aliasing in exchange.
 
Holundrian said:
After listening to the new Igor voice like an obscene amount of times. It feels really miscast.
I understand that they probably wanted a totally different voice so it doesn't get super compared to the old one as a new interpretation but it's just way too deep.

It just doesn't fit for me. Nothing too tragic but Tanonaka was just too perfect. Rest in Peace.
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I can't help but think that it's on purpose, it may play into the story in some way shape or form.
 
People have different expectations for visuals in a video game. No need to confront someone about it, especially when it's a completely logical criticism.
 
BRSxIgnition said:
I can't help but think that it's on purpose, it may play into the story in some way shape or form.
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Would be nice.For some reason I always thought that if they changed the voice actor of Igor they might also change his appearance along with it. Like how the Velvet room can take different forms it always felt to me like Igor could too.
 
wmlk said:
People have different expectations for visuals in a video game. No need to confront someone about it, especially when it's a completely logical criticism.
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As SatteliteOfLove more or less noted, it's not at that logical (or at least much less logical than it used to be) in that this is often how games are made, it's only going happen more often, and people have yet to wrap their head around it.
 
Crimsonsky said:
None of that matters when it comes to jrpg's. The color, the style, the art is what is on display here. The technical limitations or deficiencies are of no consequence to the core of the game and whether or not it's good.

It doesn't have to or need to be 60fps, perfectly aliased, etc... None of that stuff matters. It doesn't detract from the experience and is thusly of little relevance.
Click to expand...

Well, speak for yourself. I'm not obsessed with graphics, but I expect a Persona title on the PS4 to take at least some advantage of the PS4's power. At the minimum I expect the models to look crisp, and that isn't the case right now. The art style and aesthetic are fantastic, and I'm a big Atlus fan, but that doesn't mean I can't also criticize them when I think it's warranted.

I haven't seen anything in the game so far that would warrant building a custom engine. Maybe they're holding back some crazy effects or something. But I think a smaller developer like Atlus would be better served (and the games better served) using an engine like UE4 and focusing on the content. Even big developers like SE are having trouble with developing their own graphics engines. Given P5 basically looks to have the fidelity of Catherine, I'm not sure if this engine they've built is going to support further titles on the PS4 that don't also look like PS3 titles. Die-hard fans may overlook this or say it looks fine, but Atlus would obviously like to make P5 (and future titles) bigger hits, and more general audiences aren't as forgiving on the graphics front.
 
eyeball_kid said:
Well, speak for yourself. I'm not obsessed with graphics, but I expect a Persona title on the PS4 to take at least some advantage of the PS4's power. At the minimum I expect the models to look crisp, and that isn't the case right now. The art style and aesthetic are fantastic, and I'm a big Atlus fan, but that doesn't mean I can't also criticize them when I think it's warranted.

I haven't seen anything in the game so far that would warrant building a custom engine. Maybe they're holding back some crazy effects or something. But I think a smaller developer like Atlus would be better served (and the games better served) using an engine like UE4 and focusing on the content. Even big developers like SE are having trouble with developing their own graphics engines. Given P5 basically looks to have the fidelity of Catherine, I'm not sure if this engine they've built is going to support further titles on the PS4 that don't also look like PS3 titles. Die-hard fans may overlook this or say it looks fine, but Atlus would obviously like to make P5 (and future titles) bigger hits, and more general audiences aren't as forgiving on the graphics front.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone it overlooking or forgiving anything if they say the game looks good. Their priorities are different than yours. Seems to be the case for Atlus, too.

And I don't think general audiences are anywhere near as stickler about graphics anymore as you think they are, if they even care at all. Enthusiast fanboys are the ones throwing a fit over whether or not Uncharted runs at 75FPS and has dithering or whatever in it. The biggest hits with the mainstream are mobile games and Minecraft. The attitude is nothing like when the PS2 was around.
 
Squire said:
I don't think anyone it overlooking or forgiving anything if they say the game looks good. Their priorities are different than yours. Seems to be the case for Atlus, too.

And I don't think general audiences are anywhere near as stickler about graphics anymore as you think they are, if they even care at all. Enthusiast fanboys are the ones throwing a fit over whether or not Uncharted runs at 75FPS and has dithering or whatever in it. The biggest hits with the mainstream are mobile games and Minecraft. The attitude is nothing like when the PS2 was around.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure the complaints about P5's visuals here are coming pretty much exclusively from the very hardcore. This is an incredible looking game by all but the most technical nerdy standards.
 
Not to argue against any legitimate graphical complaints but I have a hard time getting bothered by that stuff when P5 seems to be so stylistically strong.

Maybe I'm weird but I feel like style trumps technical prowess everytime.
My eyes just get used too fast to things that are just technically strong.

Like the Witcher 3 a game I really love, a game I thought when it came out looked amazing and don't get me wrong I still think it looks good but the wow effect is sooooo gone.
Or from what I've seen Uncharted 4 looks unbelievably good right now but I think I'll get used to it in a month and then it's whatever.

Meanwhile Wind Waker, Guacamelee, Bravely Default, Journey, etc these games still get to me visually. But I don't want to undermine anyone. From what I've seen seeing can be very subjective.
 
Actual aesthetic design does and always will trump technical prowess. It's art direction vs. "WOWEE those grass textures!!"

The two can work in tandem, but one is definitely more important than the other.
 
Squire said:
Actual aesthetic design does and always will trump technical prowess. It's art direction vs. "WOWEE those grass textures!!"

The two can work in tandem, but one is definitely more important than the other.
Click to expand...
You say that, but what if Persona was artless and incredibly technically accurate? Oh...
 
.JayZii said:
You say that, but what if Persona was artless and incredibly technically accurate? Oh...
Click to expand...

I didn't say one was bad, I said one was better and I stand by it. There's no "gotcha" here.

Edit: And if Persona or anything else was "artless" it probably wouldn't even have my attention to begin with.
 
Squire said:
I didn't say one was bad, I said one was better and I stand by it. There's no "gotcha" here.

Edit: And if Persona or anything else was "artless" it probably wouldn't even have my attention to begin with.
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I was joking, but apparently it didn't come across. I agree with you.
Antiwhippy said:
Then it would lose a major part of its appeal.
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Obviously.


I thought what I said was inherently ridiculous enough to be seen as a joke. I'll use "/s" or something from now on.
 
Holundrian said:
Like the Witcher 3 a game I really love, a game I thought when it came out looked amazing and don't get me wrong I still think it looks good but the wow effect is sooooo gone.
Or from what I've seen Uncharted 4 looks unbelievably good right now but I think I'll get used to it in a month and then it's whatever.

Meanwhile Wind Waker, Guacamelee, Bravely Default, Journey, etc these games still get to me visually. But I don't want to undermine anyone. From what I've seen seeing can be very subjective.
Click to expand...

I think part of the thing here is that uniquely artistic stylised graphics don't age poorly, whereas more photo-realistic graphics do the moment that something better comes along. Basically, the comparison benchmark (whether conscious or unconscious) is radically different. This is the main reason I think art direction always trumps graphical fidelity, because it has far greater longevity, as well as making a work stand out in a crowded space.

That isn't to say that the graphics couldn't be smoother, crisper, anti-alias'd etc., while maintaining that sense of style, so I do get where the graphics people are coming from vis-a-vis P5.

In a completely unrelated question, which day does Famitsu come out?
 
This game is no doubt a PS3 game being adapted for the PS4. anyone expecting otherwise hasn't really been paying attention.

I mean, Persona isn't a series known for being cutting edge on any system. P4 released on the PS2 after the PS3 already released and looked dated even for that system. The team makes it work through styyyyyyyyle.
 
Squire said:
I don't think anyone it overlooking or forgiving anything if they say the game looks good. Their priorities are different than yours.
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Exactly right, but I'm the one being criticized for wanting more. If people like what they see, that's great! But I think it could look better in order to serve the art better.

Guess Who said:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the complaints about P5's visuals here are coming pretty much exclusively from the very hardcore. This is an incredible looking game by all but the most technical nerdy standards.
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I'm pretty sure that wanting a current-gen game in 2016 to not have jaggies everywhere is not a "technical nerdy standard". It's interesting that people keep praising P5's innovation and graphical style, but when the fidelity of the presentation comes up, "it's just a JRPG" is rolled out. With that attitude we might as well stick with PS2 graphics. But the reality is, some of that graphical style is only possible because it's a more capable engine than P3 and P4. Adding some form of antialiasing would really serve the abstract character models of the NPCs and make the cell-shaded style more well-defined, and make the bold colors pop more. It's not about "4k gaming!!" for me, it's about putting the content on its best foot.

Anyway, the game will be what it'll be, and I'm buying it day one regardless.
 
eyeball_kid said:
Exactly right, but I'm the one being criticized for wanting more. If people like what they see, that's great! But I think it could look better in order to serve the art better.



I'm pretty sure that wanting a current-gen game in 2016 to not have jaggies everywhere is not a "technical nerdy standard". It's interesting that people keep praising P5's innovation and graphical style, but when the fidelity of the presentation comes up, "it's just a JRPG" is rolled out. With that attitude we might as well stick with PS2 graphics. But the reality is, some of that graphical style is only possible because it's a more capable engine than P3 and P4. Adding some form of antialiasing would really serve the abstract character models of the NPCs and make the cell-shaded style more well-defined, and make the bold colors pop more. It's not about "4k gaming!!" for me, it's about putting the content on its best foot.

Anyway, the game will be what it'll be, and I'm buying it day one regardless.
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Meh people have been doing it for years. I say the same about talesvof titles and always get told well its an RPG. Nothing wrong with expecting alil more as time goes on. That all said its still a beautiful artsyle as well
 
It's difficult to make definitive statements about IQ from compressed YouTube videos, obviously, but there are clearly not "jaggies everywhere," which is a ridiculous statement. I've gone ahead and taken some full-1080p direct screencaps from the staff interview to demonstrate that there is clearly some type of antialiasing in use (I would guess some kind of FXAA or other shader-based AA).

http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2016-05-08-01ggp2p.png (note: the stairstepping in the background here is, literally, stairsteps, not aliasing)
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2016-05-09-19ejrer.png
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2016-05-09-196pql0.png
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2016-05-09-19juq2t.png
 
Cannon_Fodder said:
Kinda off topic, but the wrenches in this shot caught my eye. If that's where the MC is living, maybe his "room" is actually just a re-purposed shed or garage? Would give the group some much-needed privacy.
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It's said he's living with relatives, who own the coffee shop shown in PV01, so it's very possible he moved into an unused area of their house like a shed or something.
 
I've nothing against games that push visual tech, but I do get tired of a general tendency for some to discount any game that isn't on the bleeding edge. Persona 5 looks fantastic, whether it's cross-gen or not. Of course, it looks fantastic because of how it's designed, not because it checks a bunch of quantitative boxes in a digital foundry analysis.

Not trying to call anyone in here out, just using the ongoing discussion as an excuse for a little venting.
 
Strong art direction, yo. Those always stand the test of time and graphical leaps (Wind Waker anyone?).

P5 appears to be the complete realization of what the Persona team has always strived for in terms of a highly stylized, coherent art direction that permeates the entire game. P3 and P4 feel like they were limited in what they could do now that we see what P5 has in store, whereas the new hardware of the PS3 (and PS4 to an extent; but this is for all intents and purposes a PS3 title) has allowed them to go wild without the limitations of the PS2. I can't wait for the final product.
 
Squire said:
Actual aesthetic design does and always will trump technical prowess. It's art direction vs. "WOWEE those grass textures!!"

The two can work in tandem, but one is definitely more important than the other.
Click to expand...
Ay ay.

So when can we expect info from magazines? Anything to help me stop F5ing like a damn looney.
 
eyeball_kid said:
Well, a "PS4 game" in my mind doesn't have aliasing everywhere. It's not like they're taxing the GPU so much that they couldn't throw some FSAA on there.

Watching the video in the Catherine thread with Catherine and P5 footage side by side made it clear that Catherine on the PS3 looks as good as P5 on the PS4, and better in places (going by the footage we've seen so far).
Click to expand...

Absolutely ridiculous, they arent even the same kind of games. If all you can pick out is resolution and "jaggies" on low bitrate videos, that's reaching.

Catherine may have 2xMSAA, but at 720p, saying that looks better than this game in visuals just based on that is nonsense.

Its even worse because a lot of people such as yourself are missing the forest for the trees.

P4 and P3 were below PS2 standards a lot of the time, and they did that as a stylistic and technical limitation of the time as well as their own budget.

Very low poly models with super simple dungeons with an outer world confined by only a few separate areas that are only essentially small confined spaces in of themselves..its up to the illustrations and text boxes and anime cutscenes to tell the story most of the time.

In comparison with that, P5 looks like an entire generation of technology leap ahead of P4 and especially P3 in all accounts, so where does the PS3 definition and PS4 definition split? What would they be doing on PS4 with their budget and scale that they aren't already doing?

For example, God of War 3 could have been put on PS4 as a new title with a little polishing, and nobody would have been the wiser to its PS3 roots, same with games like Ultimate Ninja storm series from 2008 and such, based on their gameplay scale but also their visual quality.
 
Guess Who said:
since for some reason this conversation is still happening here's an even better selection of screenshots to show that p5 clearly has antialiasing

http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2016-05-09-22qwphb.png
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2016-05-09-22wephf.png
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2016-05-09-22otrtm.png
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2016-05-09-225oqi1.png
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2016-05-09-22kxrff.png
Click to expand...

So what does that have to do with the criticism that it 'looks like a PS3 game'?

If the game had better, smother textures, people would still be calling it a PS3 title dismissively.

It looks damn good for what its supposed to be, who cares whether the graphics will blow your face off or not if the visuals themselves are great? This is a new gen persona and that should be fine enough.
 
Inuhanyou said:
So what does that have to do with the criticism that it 'looks like a PS3 game'?

If the game had better, smother textures, people would still be calling it a PS3 title dismissively.

It looks damn good for what its supposed to be, who cares whether the graphics will blow your face off or not if the visuals themselves are great? This is a new gen persona and that should be fine enough.
Click to expand...

i have no idea what you're talking about because i have never once said it "looks like a ps3 game" and am actually arguing that it has better IQ than people are giving it credit for

so

???????
 
Guess Who said:
i have no idea what you're talking about because i have never once said it "looks like a ps3 game" and am actually arguing that it has better IQ than people are giving it credit for

so

???????
Click to expand...

The guy i was talking to who was perpetuating that argument brought up aliasing as a criticism and i thought you were hooking onto that as well. If i misunderstood, i apologize
 
Inuhanyou said:
The guy i was talking to who was perpetuating that argument brought up aliasing as a criticism and i thought you were hooking onto that as well. If i misunderstood, i apologize
Click to expand...

My screenshots are to illustrate that the game uses antialiasing and that the claims of there being jaggies everywhere are false (the game seems to use some kind of post-processing AA like FXAA, so there's some minor issues from that just like most other FXAA games, but for the most part it's fine).
 
ShaoranWright said:
Persona fans, I think you should watch this video about P5, it's a really fun conversation from the Easy Allies guys:

https://youtu.be/PLRswmBPOnE?t=45m9s
Click to expand...

I hope they can nail it again with the cast,P3 was a emotional rollercoaster(the ending made me depressed for several weeks)
P4..oh man,i cannot even describe how that game made me feel,i must have completed it like 50 times easily.
The third guy in the video (from left to right) is going to pass out from excitement in any moment haha.
 
Rewatched all trailers and this game just looks HUGE

Like, I'm not sure how much content there is, but it looks much meatier than previous Personas.

The cities seem awesome to explore and more natural than say P4
Cellphone features could be huge (SMS, Internet?)
Dungeons look interesting for once (biggest problem with previous entries)
Cast seems super fun
Story seems interesting with the heists

Can't wait!
 
Guess Who said:
My screenshots are to illustrate that the game uses antialiasing and that the claims of there being jaggies everywhere are false (the game seems to use some kind of post-processing AA like FXAA, so there's some minor issues from that just like most other FXAA games, but for the most part it's fine).
Click to expand...

Even still, using shots from youtube with horrible compression..don't you think its inconclusive?
 
Inuhanyou said:
Even still, using shots from youtube with horrible compression..don't you think its inconclusive?
Click to expand...

To some extent, but even with YouTube compression, some of those shots would show some clear aliasing if there weren't some AA in play. Take this one, where there's clear contrast between the MC and Ryuji's black jackets and the background. Even with YouTube compression you would be able to make out at least some stairstepping in such a high-contrast situation, but it's totally smooth.

Stuff like rendering resolution, texture resolution, texture filtering, etc. is the kind of stuff that'd be much harder to discern well from a YouTube video.
 
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