HK-47 said:Once again, how is not having control over your purchased product a good thing for consumers?
Kosma said:I say give us rights to sell the DD license and we have a deal.
You still havent answered me how you can steal an experience.
Minsc said:I agree completely with the article, at some point in the near future, physical media (books, DVDs/Blu-rays/magazines/newspaper) will be something of the past, certainly by new generations of gamers who've never been raised using them will avoid them entirely.
HK-47 said:Once again, how is not having control over your purchased product a good thing for consumers?
Mmm, legally, I'm afraid that's incorrect, in spite of what software companies want people to think.nubbe said:With software, all of it, you only buy the right to use it personally. you don't own anything.
Disregard the media you receive the software on, it is only a method of transportation.
What you really pay for is the license key, serial code or whatever it is call to enable the software to function.
robertsan21 said:I personally dont mind not having control over games and films, aslong as we do what is best for the inviroment and that is Digital download.
I dont care about reselling or trading in my games, and developers dont want us to be able to sell their games, they want us all to buy a new copy.
and by the way guys, Digital downloadable games is something that Sony have talked about since before PS3, and moore is not the first one to mention this.
robertsan21 said:I personally dont mind not having control over games and films, aslong as we do what is best for the inviroment and that is Digital download.
I dont care about reselling or trading in my games, and developers dont want us to be able to sell their games, they want us all to buy a new copy.
and by the way guys, Digital downloadable games is something that Sony have talked about since before PS3, and moore is not the first one to mention this.
HK-47 said:Ok, but I dont really give a shit if this helps devs. Only if it helps me. They arent gonna do me any favors.
Kosma said:Well if you purchase a commodity, shouldnt you be able to sell it too?
Kosma said:Why should I care what devs want me to do? If I buy something, I can sell
it. Otherwise not much use in buying something. Unless its an experience, lets say a blowjob or a camel ride through the desert.
Nekofrog said:Fuck loading a new disc every time I want to play a new game--FUCK IT!
Fuck boxes and cases that take up my physical space and that I really don't even want at all--FUCK IT!
lowrider007 said:But that is also my point, should 'games' be a commodity for consumers ?, people assume that it our right, I don't think they should be unless a publisher/developer of 'said' game says so tbh, and if we don't like it then we shouldn't buy the game, we agree to the licensing of the IP when we purchase the game, why cry when it's suddenly enforced, we were lucky to be around when physical media was king tbh, but imagine being born into a world were all games are being sold via DD, to these people it is the norm and we are the oldies telling our kids how it used to be while they squint their eyes thinking "you old fuddy duddy".
Korey said:As people have already stated, music is almost completely DD now. It's still available in physical formats only because we're still in the process of transitioning to all digital (some people/cars still don't have digital music players).
StuKen said:So many people so eager to throw away their rights for the sake of convenience. Reminds me of a certain Benjamin Franklin quote.
StuKen said:So many people so eager to throw away their rights for the sake of convenience. Reminds me of a certain Benjamin Franklin quote.
The thing is, legally speaking, they can't enforce the "license agreement" that you agree to. I could trick you into signing a contract that says you'll do my laundry every day for the rest of your life, but I'd be hard-pressed to legally enforce that.lowrider007 said:But that is also my point, should 'games' be a commodity for consumers ?, people assume that it our right, I don't think they should be unless a publisher/developer of 'said' game says so tbh, and if we don't like it then we shouldn't buy the game, we agree to the licensing of the IP when we purchase the game, why cry when it's suddenly enforced, we were lucky to be around when physical media was king tbh, but imagine being born into a world were all games are being sold via DD, to these people it will be the norm and we will be the oldies telling our kids how it used to be while they squint their eyes thinking "you old fuddy duddy".
Pureauthor said:The plain fact that so many game devs/pubs are advocating the jump to DD-only should tell you how much of the cost-savings they intend to pass back to the consumer.
Kosma said:But its not up to the pubs/dev to decide whats a real commodity or not, they want you to think that but it really isnt.
If I buy a pair of shoes or whatever, I can sell them to whomever I want. This is a real tangible product. If I buy a blowjob I cannot resell it, this is an experience. This is all based on real facts.
I I buy a license to play a game, I should be able to sell it, because this is physically possible. There is no logical reason why I shouldnt be able to sell this license to someone else. Only the wishes of entrepeneurs with dollar signs in their eyes.
Segata Sanshiro said:The thing is, legally speaking, they can't enforce the "license agreement" that you agree to. I could trick you into signing a contract that says you'll do my laundry every day for the rest of your life, but I'd be hard-pressed to legally enforce that.
That's why companies are choosing to be a bit more creative with their distribution models.
Pureauthor said:The plain fact that so many game devs/pubs are advocating the jump to DD-only should tell you how much of the cost-savings they intend to pass back to the consumer.
TouchMyBox said:I spend significantly less per game now that I've started buying almost exclusively digital. I never really understood this argument.
Well, it's either that, or $70 games. Competition is what is supposed to keep prices down- buy fewer AAA games and prices will drop on the big boys.
Well, they keep raising the prices on games and they're going to find the ceiling sooner or later. We already found the hardware price ceiling this gen. Cost a company about $4 billion to do it.arstal said:Well, it's either that, or $70 games. Competition is what is supposed to keep prices down- buy fewer AAA games and prices will drop on the big boys.
lowrider007 said:But your buying a COPY of an IP (Intellectual Property), you don't actually fully own that game, you own a licensed COPY that full under a set criteria of terms and conditions with regards as to what you do with that license of 'said' IP, you agree to this when you purchase the game, why purchase something when you don't agree with it's licensing ?
True, I know it's not an easy thing to enforce in a court of law, which is why they are choosing to enforce it themselves via a DD model.
Well then, it should be rather easy for you to understand the perspective of people who don't like it. Generally things that don't jive with consumer rights laws don't sit well with consumers, even if the company finds a loophole that precedes the courts.lowrider007 said:True, I know it's not an easy thing to enforce in a court of law, which is why they are choosing to enforce it themselves via a DD model.
Yes, but it's here to stay and will outlive CDs. Vinyl's a preference among a growing group of audiophiles of all ages; the point is too avoid this all-digital trend. But music's a whole different beast than the inherently digital gaming gaming, and I suppose with proprietary Steam-like digital distribution, the only real interesting (indie) developments will happen off console devices, as we as starting to see with the iPhone.Korey said:As a novelty/fad/temporary backlash towards all-digital music.
lowrider007 said:But that is also my point, should 'games' be a commodity for consumers ?, people assume that it our right, I don't think they should be unless a publisher/developer of 'said' game says so tbh, and if we don't like it then we shouldn't buy the game, we agree to the licensing of the IP when we purchase the game, why cry when it's suddenly enforced, we were lucky to be around when physical media was king tbh, but imagine being born into a world were all games are being sold via DD, to these people it will be the norm and we will be the oldies telling our kids how it used to be while they squint their eyes thinking "you old fuddy duddy".
Plinko said:I'll go on record now--DD-only will cause the next industry crash.
Segata Sanshiro said:Well then, it should be rather easy for you to understand the perspective of people who don't like it. Generally things that don't jive with consumer rights laws don't sit well with consumers, even if the company finds a loophole that precedes the courts.
lowrider007 said:It's us that are 'technically' breaking the law, it's just that license agreements of this nature are hard to enforce legally so they are often flaunted, all the publishers are doing is enforcing it themselves by means of DD, they are not taking away consumer rights.
lowrider007 said:It's us that are 'technically' breaking the law, it's just that license agreements of this nature are hard to enforce legally so they are often flaunted, all the publishers are doing is enforcing it themselves by means of DD, they are not taking away consumer rights.
I'm sorry, but you're completely out of line here. According to the law, license agreements cannot be enforced. Just because somebody says something ought to be a law, doesn't make it so, particularly if it cannot stand the test of the courts.lowrider007 said:It's us that are 'technically' breaking the law, it's just that license agreements of this nature are hard to enforce legally so they are often flaunted, all the publishers are doing is enforcing it themselves by means of DD, they are not taking away consumer rights.
Pureauthor said:If you're talking buying XBLA/Wiiware/PSN stuff, then 'grats for liking the cheaper games. But in retail to DL comparisons?
Moonstone said:I don't agree. It's no question that DD is the future. But disc based media provides a a lot of benefits. I don't understand why it's either DD or physical media, why not use the best of both worlds? You can't leave out a part of the market.
People like to collect things, the retailers do a lot of marketing for the publishers, impulse buys at wallmart are a big number, stores will exist in the future, as you can't sell everything digital - so there will be place for games too. And a downloadcode under the christmas tree just sucks. Or going shopping with your parents is something that encourages people to buy. There are habits that won't die. If you speak of the far future - ok, but it's unpredictable.
When all publishers go online only, it's time for someone to come out with a new blue ocean strategy to sell games at stores without any competition.:lol
There will be always a demand for physical media, the question is only how big this part of the market will be.
As long as you can make money from it, it will exist. Even if you can make more money from selling DD, there will be always a niche - even if you have to sell the games via the publishers site and produce the games on demand or for preorderers only.
Perhaps there will be services like lulu (print on demand), just for disc based media.
And there is the question who should sell their consoles. As you don't earn anything with hardware in the current business mdel, shops won't sell them without games. Cutting out the whole retail industry can be very risky. Retailers won't accept this and at some point start to fight it. And if by then, DD isn't healthy enough on it's own, we'll have the next industry breakdown.
rainking187 said:LOL wut? So basically you thinks pubs and devs should have all control over something you bought and paid for? Yeah, that's gonna work well for the consumer. Why are there so many masochists on here?
Kosma said:No its them breaking the law by trying to go around it. And one day soon the EU will make them backpaddle.
Segata Sanshiro said:I'm sorry, but you're completely out of line here. According to the law, license agreements cannot be enforced. Just because somebody says something ought to be a law, doesn't make it so, particularly if it cannot stand the test of the courts.
And fundamentally, they are taking away consumer rights. There is no way to argue otherwise here. The only thing to discuss is if that is acceptable or not.
Nessus said:With consoles, sure it's fun to have a collection (I've NEVER understood people who sell off their games; I only buy games I know are good and I'll want to replay some day, I still have all my NES, Genesis, SNES, etc. games)