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[Vyer]

Why the hell would MS do something to support it's direct competition? Particularly in a market that is so undecided and whose outcome would greatly impact the game market.

It's more stupid PR speak, obviously, but the thin line he's drawing IS clear; choice in whether you want an HD movie (HD-DVD) player or just a game machine.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Why does "choice" have to refer to choice of movie formats?? MS offers two alternatives: console with no HD movie playback, or console plus addon with movie playback.

There is a choice there.

The point is, EGM was obviously asking about offering BD and HDDVD addon drives. Moore deflected the question and made it about how awesome it is your able to choose if your 360 plays HD Movies.

 

[tanod]

Um, no. The choice is the issue of the consumer choosing to purchase what he or she will use.

Silly tanod

No. What I'm talking about is his representation of their strategy vs. his representation of Sony's.

 

[Kleegamefan]

My favorite part is how only a tiny minority of their customers have the equipment needed to use a high-def format

Yeah.....those people should just buy a Wii, then, since they don't have the equipment needed for "teh HD ERA" which was ushered in by Xbox 360 games, according to MS

 

[drohne]

if they weren't embroiled in a format war, why would their executives have to lie about hd-dvd's 'superiority' or its market success? you're embroiled, peter.

 

[GhaleonEB]

The point is, EGM was obviously asking about offering BD and HDDVD addon drives. Moore deflected the question and made it about how awesome it is your able to choose if your 360 plays HD Movies.

He may have deflected that question, but he had good reason to - it's a stupid question. He's not even going to entertain questions about releasing a different format HD movie player when they have one on the market, much less the format supported by their main competitor. As m0dus and others have patiently pointed out, the choice is to get a gaming system, or a gaming system and an HD movie player. Period. EGM was trying to play hardball with the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD "choice" question, despite the absurdity of it.

 

[Pope Benedict XVI]

The point is, EGM was obviously asking about offering BD and HDDVD addon drives. Moore deflected the question and made it about how awesome it is your able to choose if your 360 plays HD Movies.

EGM asked the question as though MS not offering Blu-ray somehow contradicted Moore saying that they offer a choice.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Um, no. The choice is the issue of the consumer choosing to purchase what he or she will use.

Silly tanod

Exactly Right. A PS3 owner doesn't have to buy movies. He can say, "I bought my PS3 for GAMES ONLY" if he desires, and walk right past the Blu-ray isle in the shop.

Does the Blu-ray drive in the PS3 cost the "games only" guy money? Yeah, but he will get to benefits of larger Blu-ray games, too.

Ultimately, the software the consumer chooses to buy is the big choice. The amount of money a consumer spends on software quickly surpasses what they may or may not have spent on a financialy-subsidized internal next-gen drive or add-on.

 

[gofreak]

Because, according to Peter Moore, THAT would be embroiling themselves in the format war. At least, that is how they percieve it, I think.

Quite the opposite, if they allowed the choice of either format it would make them purely neutral in this war and remove them from taking sides, something they have clearly done.

Unless you mean that by only supporting one, in cloud-cuckoo-peter-moore-land no format war exists That by allowing the choice of two, the war would be played out on the 360 front too. But look - that war is happening one way or another in the real world, and currently it doesn't look like the choice MS is allowing is the winning one. I'm sure there are 360 owners now who'd much prefer to pick up a BD drive than a HD-DVD one given that choice.

(Of course, we all understand why MS isn't providing that option, but EGM is looking at it from a pure, naive, consumer-orientated viewpoint, which is fair enough. And of course, Sony doesn't offer any choice either here, but they haven't been parroting on about 'choice' in relation to HD movies like MS has. EGM just picked them up on that 'choice' mantra on different level, the choice the consumer has once they do decide they want HD movies.)

 

[BlueTsunami]

if they weren't embroiled in a format war, why would their executives have to lie about hd-dvd's 'superiority' or its market success? you're embroiled, peter.

Exactly, he tried to play off as their somehow impartial and yet makes the "HD-DVD is superior" comment.

Just like Kutagari, Harrison and Kaz we're getting spin. Plain and simple

Quite the opposite, if they allowed the choice of either format it would make them purely neutral in this war and remove them from taking sides, something they have clearly done.

I was going to respond with the that same overall response but you've stated it better

 

[Chris_C]

They are backing a format war like the French back a cavalry charge...."No, that's okay, go on ahead and we'll catch up..."

Is that Steven J Canell in your avatar?

 

[VALIS]

Exactly Right. A PS3 owner doesn't have to buy movies. He can say, "I bought my PS3 for GAMES ONLY" if he desires, and walk right past the Blu-ray isle in the shop.

Hey fella, I'd like to buy one of these "games only" PS3s. Mind telling me where I can get one? I'm serious, too. Were it not for having to pay for BluRay, I'd have owned a PS3 on day one, and so would a lot more people. So don't give me this "games only" bull.

 

[FredFish]

Peter Moore: ... This is about games. It's not about movies.

Where are the HD-DVD games then?

 

[GhaleonEB]

Where are the HD-DVD games then?

What the hell? :lol

 

[gofreak]

except the cost of supporting their competitor's format would likely overshadow the percieved benefit of offering such a drive from the outset. And again, that is cost both in terms of physical money (fees) and mindshare (tacitly proving their competitor's strategy as being 'right' somehow). And if you're going to get on MS's case for 'parroting' choice, to be fair, you have to give sony an equal amount of venom for not doing so. Each company is going to broadcast their strengths, and they have the right to do so.

Again, I think everyone understands why MS isn't offering it. That's fair enough, it's an understandable position from a competitive point of view.

As for Sony, I think they've got their share of heat and skepticism over the inclusion of BD. I don't think there's any harm in EGM making the point they did, w.r.t. MS's stance on choice. It's a fair enough point, and I'm sure some of their readers had the thought strike them if they're in a position of wanting a cheap upgrade to HD movies on their 360, but don't have access to their desired format.

 

[Skilotonn]

I like how a good bit of you are playing dumb - MS is backing HD-DVD, and Sony's backing Blu-Ray... he even said it right there in the next sentence that that's what their backing...

The choice is obviously whether you want to spend the extra cash for watching these movies or not... a choice I was glad to have seeing as I barely watch movies, let alone TV, to spend extra cash on something I wouldn't use at all...

Where are the HD-DVD games then?

...oh jeez...

I think I'm gonna leave this thread...

 

[Pope Benedict XVI]

(Of course, we all understand why MS isn't providing that option, but EGM is looking at it from a pure, naive, consumer-orientated viewpoint, which is fair enough. And of course, Sony doesn't offer any choice either here, but they haven't been parroting on about 'choice' in relation to HD movies like MS has. EGM just picked them up on that 'choice' mantra on different level, the choice the consumer has once they do decide they want HD movies.)

Are you saying that MS is misleading consumers by talking about choice? All of MS's advertising that relates to HD movies has been specifically about the HDDVD drive. The "choice mantra", when not clearly connected with HDDVD, comes up in conferences and interviews that nerds read, not in mainstream advertising.

 

[Night_Trekker]

Where are the HD-DVD games then?

 

[SlaughterX]

You can tell who the real retards are in this thread. Why is there an HD-DVD player for the Xbox 360? To match the features of the PS3. Why isn't there a Blu-Ray Drive for the Xbox 360? Because Microsoft doesn't want to support their competition. Why is everyone making a big deal out of this? Because they have nothing else better to do. The choices for 360 owners are simple, watch standard DVDs on their Xbox 360, download HD movies ont he marketplace, buy the HD-DVD add on for the 360 to watch HD-DVDs, or buy a PS3, stand alone Blu-Ray player, or whatever the hell else they need to watch their format of choice.

This thread needs to be locked because it really serves no purpose at all, and yes it was a dumb question for EGM to ask.

 

[ThirdEye]

Sure they'd support Blu Ray, if it emerged as the clear winner in the market. There would be no reason not to.

For now, there's no real downside in sticking with the HD DVD drive. It ticks off the right box on the features list, and leaves their options open.

I think they won't, there's no way they can release a Blu-ray addon at the price that realizes Xbox + Add-on < PS3 price.

 

[gofreak]

Are you saying that MS is misleading consumers by talking about choice? All of MS's advertising that relates to HD movies has been specifically about the HDDVD drive. The "choice mantra", when not clearly connected with HDDVD, comes up in conferences and interviews and that nerds read, not in mainstream advertising.

No, I'm not saying they're misleading anyone in that regard. I think EGM's point is that their mantra about 'choice' in this arena evaporates once you actually decide you want HD movies, as you can only buy into the format MS has chosen for you. MS is right about them providing choice here, but it only extends so far.

That's all. I don't see it as all that inflammatory. Moore spun it away. The earth keeps moving. I would defend it as a fair point on EGM's part though (albeit knowingly "sticky"), that's all, particularly if it reflects concern expressed by their readers.

 

[Big-E]

No, I'm not saying they're misleading anyone in that regard. I think EGM's point is that their mantra about 'choice' in this arena evaporates once you actually decide you want HD movies, as you can only buy into the format MS has chosen for you. MS is right about them providing choice here, but it only extends so far.

That's all. I don't see it as all that inflammatory. Moore spun it away. The earth keeps moving. I would defend it as a fair point on EGM's part though (albeit knowingly "sticky"), that's all, particularly if it reflects concern expressed by their readers.

Well said.

 

[ThirdEye]

Are you saying that MS is misleading consumers by talking about choice?

Maybe not by choice, but by "HD Era".

 

[Merovingian]

Ms gives you choice, just not unlimmited choice.

The point is that MS gives you choice where Sony doesn't. I don't understand what EGM was trying to prove or what some ppl around here are trying to feed.

Its a simple matter.

 

[GhaleonEB]

No, I'm not saying they're misleading anyone in that regard. I think EGM's point is that their mantra about 'choice' in this arena evaporates once you actually decide you want HD movies, as you can only buy into the format MS has chosen for you. MS is right about them providing choice here, but it only extends so far.

That's all. I don't see it as all that inflammatory. Moore spun it away. The earth keeps moving. I would defend it as a fair point on EGM's part though (albeit knowingly "sticky"), that's all, particularly if it reflects concern expressed by their readers.

Microsoft has been very clear about defining what their message of choice is about, and the scope of it, as has been repeatedly explained. What EGM was doing was taking that and expanding it beyond what Microsoft has defined, and you're running with it as well. It makes exactly as much sense as asking whether Sony plans to supply an HD-DVD add-on for the PS3 any time soon. I mean, the PS3 is the ultimate HD device, right? HD games and movies? But why doesn't it support all HD formats? Why not support the other "true HD" format out there? It's taking their manta to an absurd conclusion, and it's an entirely disingenuous argument. That is the precise argument you are making with the MS and the 360.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I can see a few:

-cost to manufacturer
-cost of confusing the consumer by offering 2 entirely different formats (what would be next in EGM? "Peter, why doesn't MS offer a HYBRID drive that plays both??")
-cost of having to pay your #1 rival potential licensing fees for every unit sold

Nothing?

Really? Do you think sorting out how to get an HD-DVD drive to work patched through a 360 required not a single dollar of investment?

It's like saying there is NOTHING keeping MS from offering online multiplayer for free.

They DON'T have the instant ability to do both, just like the reason they have CSI on VMP and not Lost is because they don't have the license rights and business relationship with Touchstone in place.

They've decided to go with HD-DVD for some obvious reasons, but the reason they're not doggedly persuing both is because the HiDef Movie market is just realllllly tiny right now.

Nice to see you both are looking out for Microsoft's balance sheets, first and foremost.

That is not exactly the consumer's perspective though.


This one line made me laugh though:

-cost of having to pay your #1 rival potential licensing fees for every unit sold

So you disagreed with Sony settling with Immersion because doing so would require a multi-milliondollar payoff to Microsoft?

I must have missed your protests in that thread.

Also, it is well-known that Sony and Nichia jointly cross license some 800 patents for blue-violet laser diode production used in both HD DVD and Blu-ray players. Those patents don't result in "potential licensing fees" either...those fees are very real. So if you think that Sony isn't already getting a slice of every HD DVD player sold, you are only fooling yourself.

 

[Owzers]

They should release a Blu Ray player as well, that way they can have 2 add-ons that don't sell.

 

[R-User!]

"The problem is choice." -Peter Moore-

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

The rest of it is just standard PR stuff, but what I find really funny is the last part where Moore insinuates people don't have the setup for HD movies. It runs completely against the line they've been running since the 360 was born. Unusual for Peter to make a ****-up like that. Overall, I'd say Peter handled this tough set of questions a bit better than Tretton...he spun, but he didn't get caught in a huge lie and then keep on talking like he didn't.

As for all the rest of this discussion...well, strategies have been laid out, all consoles have launched, everyone is moving forward with the agenda they had planned. A lot of risky moves were taken by all this gen. One way or the other, I have a feeling we'll know beyond doubt in a year's time who's the smartypants and who are the fools.

 

[Pope Benedict XVI]

No, I'm not saying they're misleading anyone in that regard. I think EGM's point is that their mantra about 'choice' in this arena evaporates once you actually decide you want HD movies, as you can only buy into the format MS has chosen for you. MS is right about them providing choice here, but it only extends so far.

That's all. I don't see it as all that inflammatory. Moore spun it away. The earth keeps moving. I would defend it as a fair point on EGM's part though (albeit knowingly "sticky"), that's all, particularly if it reflects concern expressed by their readers.

I wouldn't have a problem with the question normally, but the way they phrased it is annoying. MS are quite right in saying that they provide choice in a way that sony don't. The point that it only extends so far is obvious and there is no ambiguity or misleading going on and so it doesn't justify the implication (as i see it) that the "choice" that MS talks about is false.

 

[Zen]

You can tell who the real retards are in this thread. Why is there an HD-DVD player for the Xbox 360? To match the features of the PS3. Why isn't there a Blu-Ray Drive for the Xbox 360? Because Microsoft doesn't want to support their competition. Why is everyone making a big deal out of this? Because they have nothing else better to do. The choices for 360 owners are simple, watch standard DVDs on their Xbox 360, download HD movies ont he marketplace, buy the HD-DVD add on for the 360 to watch HD-DVDs, or buy a PS3, stand alone Blu-Ray player, or whatever the hell else they need to watch their format of choice.

This thread needs to be locked because it really serves no purpose at all, and yes it was a dumb question for EGM to ask.

You're misunderstanding, people understand why plenty well, the fact remain it flies in the face of Micrsofts repeatedly assert 'choice' philosophy, and instead of openly admitting what everyone knows Peter Moore refused that and tried to squirm his way out of it.

It was Mirosoft being caught rather obviously contradicting their own 360 philosophy (and the format war isn't nearly as simple as Sony = Blu Ray but that's beside the point). The kicker though is how Peter Moore rationalized (or failed to rationalize) exclusivity with HD-DVD, which is why people are laughing and pressing the point.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Hey fella, I'd like to buy one of these "games only" PS3s. Mind telling me where I can get one? I'm serious, too. Were it not for having to pay for BluRay, I'd have owned a PS3 on day one, and so would a lot more people. So don't give me this "games only" bull.

Read my post again. Slowly this time.

If you still can't understand it, go get someone who can read the really big words and stuff more gooder than you to explain it to you.

 

[gofreak]

Microsoft has been very clear about defining what their message of choice is about, and the scope of it, as has been repeatedly explained. What EGM was doing was taking that and expanding it beyond what Microsoft has defined, and you're running with it as well. It makes exactly as much sense as asking whether Sony plans to supply an HD-DVD add-on for the PS3 any time soon. I mean, the PS3 is the ultimate HD device, right? HD games and movies? But why doesn't it support all HD formats? Why not support the other "true HD" format out there? It's taking their manta to an absurd conclusion, and it's an entirely disingenuous argument. That is the precise argument you are making with the MS and the 360.

'Choice' and 'options' have been repeated by-words for 360, used by MS themselves, in a broader context. And yes, EGM could play poodle and strictly accept the scope and boundaries of that choice as dictated by MS, or they could reflect the kinds of further choices their readers may have expressed a desire for, that - gasp - just might not coincide with MS's strategy. If MS positions 360 as the platform of 'choice' and options, then they have to be prepared for people to probe beyond the limitations and boundaries that are convenient to MS's strategy or competitive position. Naive, selfish, consumers will do that (and certainly consumers have every right to be selfish).

I wouldn't have a problem with the question normally, but the way they phrased it is annoying. MS are quite right in saying that they provide choice in a way that sony don't.

True.

The point that it only extends so far is obvious and there is no ambiguity or misleading going on and so it doesn't justify the implication (as i see it) that the "choice" that MS talks about is false.

But choice as defined by the customer is what EGM is reflecting. And I think it's fair for them to do that, rather than the definition or scope of choice MS prefers. They have to serve their readers after all. I don't think they're implying the choice MS presents is misleading, but highlighting that is more limited than some of their readers might like.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Hmm...

So why again is everyone arguing about this?

 

[dr3upmushroom]

Reminds me of Ford's early consumer choice philosophy.

You can get any next-gen drive you want for your 360, as long as it's HD-DVD.

or a communist state...

 

[JoJo13]

Where are the HD-DVD games then?

Dragon's Lair Unveiled as First 1080p Game for Microsoft Xbox 360 HD DVD Player
Is that even considered a game really? If so, there you go. ;p

 

[jett]

Peter Moore: No, no, it's about choice. We're absolutely focused on consumers that want to play games, and if they're fortunate enough to be the small minority right now that have the equipment to take advantage of the new generation of high-definition movie playback, then at their choice they can buy an HD-DVD player for $199.

BUBUBBU WHAT ABOUT HD ERA?

:lol

Peter Moore is such a douche.

 

[Merovingian]

Hmm...

So why again is everyone arguing about this?

Because apparently when someone asks you "Chicken or fish?", it seems there's a choice, but you're wrong, there only exists the illusion of choice, because in the end you can't choose "Salad".

It's an illusion, because salad is where it's at.

...

BUBUBBU WHAT ABOUT HD ERA?

:lol

Peter Moore is such a douche.

Douche - a word to describe an individual who has shown themself to be very brainless in one way or another, thus comparing them to the cleansing product for vaginas.

ex : you're such a douche... i wish i knew your existence was this pathetic when i started hanging out with u.


word?

 

[mood]

Haha this thread is funny. I guess its as close to bad MS news as you'll get though, better run with it.

 

[chriskzoo]

Because apparently when someone asks you "Chicken or fish?", it seems there's a choice, but you're wrong, there only exists the illusion of choice, because in the end you can't choose "Salad".

It's an illusion, because salad is where it's at.

...

More like this:

Sony: "Buy our dinner, and we'll give you free wine."

MS: "Buy our dinner and then for $1.99 you can have your choice of beverage."
Customer: "I'll take wine."
MS: "Sorry, we only have beer."

 

[Karma Kramer]

I am actually eating a salad right now.

...

*looks outside up into the trees*

*slowly closes the blinds*

 

[Goreomedy]

*looks outside up into the trees*

*slowly closes the blinds*

Too late. I finished.

 

[Wollan]

:lol

 

[Pope Benedict XVI]

More like this:

Sony: "Buy our dinner, and we'll give you free wine."

MS: "Buy our dinner and then for $1.99 you can have your choice of beverage."
Customer: "I'll take wine."
MS: "Sorry, we only have beer."

Sony: "Buy our dinner, and we'll force you to buy red wine too. NO WATER FOR YOU"

MS: "Buy our dinner and then for $1.99 you can choose to have white wine. Of course, you can just have water if you like."

 

[Big-E]

Sony: "Buy our dinner, and we'll force you to buy red wine too."

MS: "Buy our dinner and then for $1.99 you can choose to have white wine."

His analogy was more funny. And your edited analogy makes no sense.

 

[KongRudi]

Originally Posted by VALIS:
Hey fella, I'd like to buy one of these "games only" PS3s. Mind telling me where I can get one? I'm serious, too. Were it not for having to pay for BluRay, I'd have owned a PS3 on day one, and so would a lot more people. So don't give me this "games only" bull.

If you really are serious, I can sell you a PS3 without the where I've removed the Bluray-drive.
I'd like to remove the bluray-drive and look at it, and tinker with it.
However it will then only be 'game-only' PS3, hopefully, and only work with games you buy off the Playstation Network, and not any of the games coming on the dreaded Bluray.
I'll offcourse subtract the 200$ price of the bluray-drive before I sell it to you, if it still works. :-/
Will take awhile before I get the opportunity to test tough.

 

[patsu]

More like this:

Sony: "Buy our dinner, and we'll give you free wine."

MS: "Buy our dinner and then for $1.99 you can have your choice of beverage."
Customer: "I'll take wine."
MS: "Sorry, we only have beer."

That more or less depicts the picture.

I think MS wants people to believe that HD-DVD is a substitute for Blu-ray. Unfortunately, the latter is more promising (in total sales, mindshare and studio support). So many people discredit the choices MS offers.

MS will have to react accordingly if Blu-ray wins. And people who bought the add-on would have wasted 200 bucks. Are the added choices worthwhile then (It has zero use for gaming) ?


You know there is no such thing as "No choice". You can always defer buying a PS3 until it becomes cheap enough; or not buy a PS3; or buy an Xbox 360 and a PS3. Those are all valid outcomes.

 

[DCharlie]

More like this:

Sony: "Buy our dinner, and we'll give you free wine."

MS: "Buy our dinner and then for $1.99 you can have your choice of beverage."
Customer: "I'll take wine."
MS: "Sorry, we only have beer."

More like this:

Sony: "Buy our dinner, and we'll give a super dessert!"
Customer : "AWESOME! i'll take it..."
Sony : "Excellent - here's the carrots from the dinner, and here is your fantastic dessert."
Customer : "... but i ordered the Steak Diane with the cheese mashed potatoes that you showed me in your metaphorical E3 2005 store window... i'd kind of want to eat that first"
Sony : "Yeah... that'll be coming a bit later.. it's awesome by the way - totally awesome. No other restaurant can do Steak Diane like us"
Customer : "ah ... okay!"
Sony : "Sir.. for now , please enjoy your carrots and this AMAZING dessert at your leisure."
...
Sony to Chef : "Awesome - our plan to dominate the dessert and confectionary world is going to plan! ORDER MORE CREAM!"
Chef : "What about that guys steak?...."
Chef/Sony : **LAUGHTER**

 

[Goreomedy]

Can we turn this thread into a "Worst Analogy" contest? Because I'd like to compete.

 

[AVclub]

except the PS3 owner has already paid for the Blu-Ray player, regardless. that extra $200-$300 has been spent, regardless of whether or not he ever puts a movie in that machine.

Since Sony is selling the console at least at a $200 deficit, it could be argued that the Blu-ray drive is thrown in for free and the consumer is actually paying for the rest of the console. The advantages to game designers and gamers is a perk offered in exchange for also getting Sony's foot in the door with their new HD movie format.

It's funny though that the discussion turns to Sony when this is a thread about Microsoft and Moore's double-speak.