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Opinion Game Dev Platform Phil Spencer Believes Bethesda Will Be Critical to Xbox’s Progress; Excited About Announced & Unannounced Games

kuncol02

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Your analogies doesn't mean anything here. This is not Bible School.

Regardless even the most hardcore fans of Xbox have all but gave up on the output of most existing Xbox studios. They know themselves that the purchase was being done because Xbox had no other option.

What is done is done. At the very least, Xbox can once again promise Fish Tomorrow once more. So much easier to talking about the future than to talk about the present.
Yep. You are trolling. Good bye.
 

x@3f*oo_e!

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Dec 13, 2020
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Regardless even the most hardcore fans of Xbox have all but gave up on the output of most existing Xbox studios. They know themselves that the purchase was being done because Xbox had no other option.

What is done is done. At the very least, Xbox can once again promise Fish Tomorrow once more. So much easier to talking about the future than to talk about the present.
It's hard no to feel totally jaded about xbox division output (and even future).

Playground established new 'fable' studio in 2017 and by all accounts - they're still hiring staff. We got a a trailer in late 2020 that probably will have no relation to the game when it comes out. If it comes out, ever, if it doesn't suck. There's really no guarantee - theses aren't the same people who make Forza.. (probably some management has crossed over)

They bought Forza + Gear - doesn't really make a difference since
Their other pre-Zenimax recent acquisitions were mostly studios on life support, who couldn't even get funding to make a game and relied on Patreon to stay afloat.
  • State of Decay is at least a good game (even if buggy) ..
  • We Happy Few was by all accounts - a bad game
  • Ninja Theory .. used to quite good at action action ..reduced to covering 'difficult issues in games' to get publicity for Hellblade .. it's a really low step
  • inXile's output feels dated (isometric 3d rpg) and though it has fans, can't see it exciting anyone else
  • Obsidian - the Outer Worlds looks like a 360 game, maybe Grounded is fun, and their new IP 'avowed' looks like someones dream of a game, but from 2006
tldr - hard to acquire good studios, easy to acquire failing studios

MS got lucky getting Prey/Wolvenstein/Doom etc. And the ElderScrolls/Fallout IPs are worth a lot .. but Bethesda hasn't actually made a good game this generation , spent it cashing in on Skyrim .. I won't be suprised if they are going the same way as Bioware, slowly and painfully downhill.

The good bits are impressive, but it's a fuck ton of money for what feels like dated IP from 'middle aged' studios.

I gotta apologize for the negativity dump, but you're right about Fish Tomorrow

[and the thing Rare is making 'Everwild' - seems they don't even know what it is yet. New consoles are out now. Holy shit]
 
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dcmk7

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Mar 25, 2020
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It's hard no to feel totally jaded about xbox division output (and even future).

Playground established new 'fable' studio in 2017 and by all accounts - they're still hiring staff. We got a a trailer in late 2020 that probably will have no relation to the game when it comes out. If it comes out, ever, if it doesn't suck. There's really no guarantee - theses aren't the same people who make Forza.. (probably some management has crossed over)

They bought Forza + Gear - doesn't really make a difference since
Their other pre-Zenimax recent acquisitions were mostly studios on life support, who couldn't even get funding to make a game and relied on Patreon to stay afloat.
  • State of Decay is at least a good game (even if buggy) ..
  • We Happy Few was by all accounts - a bad game
  • Ninja Theory .. used to quite good at action action ..reduced to covering 'difficult issues in games' to get publicity for Hellblade .. it's a really low step
  • inXile's output feels dated (isometric 3d rpg) and though it has fans, can't see it exciting anyone else
  • Obsidian - the Outer Worlds looks like a 360 game, maybe Grounded is fun, and their new IP 'avowed' looks like someones dream of a game, but from 2006
tldr - hard to acquire good studios, easy to acquire failing studios

MS got lucky getting Prey/Wolvenstein/Doom etc. And the ElderScrolls/Fallout IPs are worth a lot .. but Bethesda hasn't actually made a good game this generation , spent it cashing in on Skyrim .. I won't be suprised if they are going the same way as Bioware, slowly and painfully downhill.

The good bits are impressive, but it's a fuck ton of money for what feels like dated IP from 'middle aged' studios.

I gotta apologize for the negativity dump, but you're right about Fish Tomorrow
I can't disagree with anything there.

But if nothing else it shows intent on Microsoft part, recognised that they do need to improve their games library catalogue and get some more IPs under its belt.

The Halo Infinite farce must have put a spotlight on studio management and put better processes in place to ensure quality output.

Would hope lessons would have been learnt from that fiasco.
 
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Geki-D

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People have given up on Forza, Forza Horizon, Gears, Halo, Rare and Perfect Dark?
...Dude, besides Forza, most people's opinion of what you listed has ranged over the last-gen from 'no longer very good' to 'utter dumpster fire'. The only real glimmer of hope for MS' franchises comes from the fact MS hide their sales data so we can't tell how poorly they're really doing.

The fact you'd list Rare & Perfect Dark as a counterpoint to people giving up on MS' output actually makes me think you're trolling.
 
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Bernkastel

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...Dude, besides Forza, most people's opinion of what you listed has ranged over the last-gen from 'no longer very good' to 'utter dumpster fire'. The only real glimmer of hope for MS' franchises comes from the fact MS hide their sales data so we can't tell how poorly they're really doing.

The fact you'd list Rare & Perfect Dark as a counterpoint to people giving up on MS' output actually makes me think you're trolling.
Why is mentioning Rare trolling? Sea of Thieves has passed 15 million players.
 

dcmk7

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Why is mentioning Rare trolling? Sea of Thieves has passed 15 million players.

I love Sea of Thieves.

But I think it's common knowledge that Rares output since MS has taken over has been divisive.

Personally I've liked it. But can see why people (including Geki-D) don't.
 
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Edgelord79

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Regardless even the most hardcore fans of Xbox have all but gave up on the output of most existing Xbox studios. They know themselves that the purchase was being done because Xbox had no other option.
I realize this isn't bible school, but how about we go to critical thinking school instead?

What you've just stated is an argumentum ad populum fallacy or in other words, a bandwagon fallacy. These seem to pretty common. Same as the strawman fallacy I pointed out in another post.

There are other logical arguments to make your case, but when you use this fallacy, it's difficult to take you seriously.
 

KungFucius

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Making Spider-Man exclusive to one platform could be seen as toxic too I guess. Lots of kids and man children likes a super hero.
It is totally toxic and also acidic. Burned a $530 hole in my wallet so I can have access to fucking exclusives. Why should platform owners spend money to make their platforms attractive? .... Oh because some can only afford one platform and are religiously devoted to it. Meh. I wish everything was on PC but it isn't so I have a PS5 and Switch to be able to optimize my gaming time with the best games only. If you consider Bethesda games to be unmissable then buy an Xbox or a gaming PC.
 

x@3f*oo_e!

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.. Sea of Thieves probably could be ported to mobile .. if it was from an independent studio they would have by now. But not hungry enough because papa MS pays the bills anyway..
 

Riky

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...Dude, besides Forza, most people's opinion of what you listed has ranged over the last-gen from 'no longer very good' to 'utter dumpster fire'. The only real glimmer of hope for MS' franchises comes from the fact MS hide their sales data so we can't tell how poorly they're really doing.

The fact you'd list Rare & Perfect Dark as a counterpoint to people giving up on MS' output actually makes me think you're trolling.

Trolling because I like those games?

*Checks your tag.......oh.
 

fighterman101

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May 10, 2020
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Elder Scrolls 6 exclusivity confirmed.
All bethesda games after 2021 will be exclusive to xbox / PC/ Streaming. Microsoft need these games for xbox game pass and xbox to be successful. Starfield and Bethesda mmo games I think will be on PS4, but will not have a PS5 version of the game. Kind of like psychonauts 2.
 
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MonarchJT

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Sep 25, 2020
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It's hard no to feel totally jaded about xbox division output (and even future).

Playground established new 'fable' studio in 2017 and by all accounts - they're still hiring staff. We got a a trailer in late 2020 that probably will have no relation to the game when it comes out. If it comes out, ever, if it doesn't suck. There's really no guarantee - theses aren't the same people who make Forza.. (probably some management has crossed over)

They bought Forza + Gear - doesn't really make a difference since
Their other pre-Zenimax recent acquisitions were mostly studios on life support, who couldn't even get funding to make a game and relied on Patreon to stay afloat.
  • State of Decay is at least a good game (even if buggy) ..
  • We Happy Few was by all accounts - a bad game
  • Ninja Theory .. used to quite good at action action ..reduced to covering 'difficult issues in games' to get publicity for Hellblade .. it's a really low step
  • inXile's output feels dated (isometric 3d rpg) and though it has fans, can't see it exciting anyone else
  • Obsidian - the Outer Worlds looks like a 360 game, maybe Grounded is fun, and their new IP 'avowed' looks like someones dream of a game, but from 2006
tldr - hard to acquire good studios, easy to acquire failing studios

MS got lucky getting Prey/Wolvenstein/Doom etc. And the ElderScrolls/Fallout IPs are worth a lot .. but Bethesda hasn't actually made a good game this generation , spent it cashing in on Skyrim .. I won't be suprised if they are going the same way as Bioware, slowly and painfully downhill.

The good bits are impressive, but it's a fuck ton of money for what feels like dated IP from 'middle aged' studios.

I gotta apologize for the negativity dump, but you're right about Fish Tomorrow

[and the thing Rare is making 'Everwild' - seems they don't even know what it is yet. New consoles are out now. Holy shit]
embarassing logic + no touch with what is happening + fanboyism + butthurt ...the post
 
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Cyberpunkd

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Dec 16, 2020
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I think Sony will respond and buy some more studios.
The way the industry is consolidating at the moment I think they really need to do it.
I don't think they need to go out and buy up a Zenimax level company, but some more like they did with Insomniac.
Turned out to be a super buy.
They will not. Sony is still in denial mode doubling down on what worked for PS4 - full price, SP cinematic experiences like HZD, GoT, GoW, etc. This will get them ‘hearts and minds’ of the gaming hardcore, but when all is set and done GamePass will bring profits magnitude higher for Microsoft.
 

Rolla

Report me for trolling MS/Xbox threads > 06/27
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Regardless even the most hardcore fans of Xbox have all but gave up on the output of most existing Xbox studios.

I think you might be wrong on this particular point. I have seen some gamers on social media, particularly the content creators, publically declare they're abandoning XBOX under the guise of being "frustrated." But I suspect those announcements were more to do with content creation and trying to appeal tp the PS audience. And while those guys are easily the most vocal. When it comes to "Hardcore" fans, they're not budging. XBOX is that platform of choice and they're committed to that eco system.

Nothing is going to change that.
 

Topher70

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It matters because they will then invest on their service and buy games from their store, which makes them more money. Microsoft is not a third party publisher, they make more money of people buying third party games in their store then people actually buying their games.

The question was does it matter if MS is forking over 30% in fees to PlayStation versus Steam. MS is still having to share revenue since they have committed all their future XGS games to Steam.
 
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Even if you consider the Zenimax purchase cost of $7.5B a sunk cost that they don’t intend to recoup, the entire publisher’s slate of titles needs more than the installed base of Xbox hw and Xbox on PC to be able to support its production and marketing costs.

When you factor in how GamePass will cannibalise boxed product sales on those two platforms, it really makes the economics of exclusivity within the Xbox ecosystem look horrendously bad.

It’s clear the Zenimax purchase was made for the sole purpose of increasing the value of GamePass, but for a service like this, the whole notion of platform exclusivity is antithetical to any potential success they hope to achieve through it.

For GamePass to achieve the kind of Netflix-like ubiquity they intend for it, it needs to be available on everything. As such Xbox is better off abandoning hardware altogether and launching GamePass both natively and delivered through xCloud on every device under the sun. Otherwise it simply doesn’t make much longterm commercial sense.

My personal take, is that MS will wait till the deal has officially gone through and nobody is looking, and then dismantle the common publisher parts of Zenimax, rolling all the Bethesda and Zenimax studios alone under the MGS publshing arm... so mass layoffs will occur (contrary to what MS promised prior to the deal).

What I think they would be better off doing, is retaining all the common publishing elements of Zenimax/Bethesda, shifting all their existing MGS studios over under the Zenimax publishing umbrella and then dismantling the publishing functions of MGS (since MGS publishing has proven themselves woefully inadequate over the past approaching two gens). Then just rebadge the new Zenimax as MGS. That would be a far better solution to their FP issues and would let them have a leaner FP publishing repertoire such that keeping everything exclusive wouldn’t hurt as much... they’d still have the issue of GamePass growth and profitability to solve, but that would be there regardless.
 
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levyjl1988

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All I really want from Microsoft is a remastered Banjo and Kazooie game. Take Banjo and Kazooie’s model from Smash Bros Ultimate and put it in an open world game.
 
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x@3f*oo_e!

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Even if you consider the Zenimax purchase cost of $7.5B a sunk cost that they don’t intend to recoup, the entire publisher’s slate of titles needs more than the installed base of Xbox hw and Xbox on PC to be able to support its production and marketing costs.

When you factor in how GamePass will cannibalise boxed product sales on those two platforms, it really makes the economics of exclusivity within the Xbox ecosystem look horrendously bad.

It’s clear the Zenimax purchase was made for the sole purpose of increasing the value of GamePass, but for a service like this, the whole notion of platform exclusivity is antithetical to any potential success they hope to achieve through it.

For GamePass to achieve the kind of Netflix-like ubiquity they intend for it, it needs to be available on everything. As such Xbox is better off abandoning hardware altogether and launching GamePass both natively and delivered through xCloud on every device under the sun. Otherwise it simply doesn’t make much longterm commercial sense.
So worse case not only do they have 7.5B less in the bank, but just bought themselfs a loss making business because gamepass.
For GamePass to achieve the kind of Netflix-like ubiquity they intend for it, it needs to be available on everything. As such Xbox is better off abandoning hardware altogether and launching GamePass both natively and delivered through xCloud on every device under the sun. Otherwise it simply doesn’t make much longterm commercial sense.
Xbox hardware makes them good money through cut of third party revenue. I don't understand what 'native gamepass' is though.
 

RebellYell

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Exclusivity will take a while to pay off but when Bethesda starts releasing new iterations of Doom, Elder Scrolls, Fallout and of course Starfield, Playstation is going to feel like the inferior choice to consumers.

By the end of this generation and moving on to the next, people are going to be speculating if Sony can even stay in the market with Microsoft and Nintendo.
 
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So worse case not only do they have 7.5B less in the bank, but just bought themselfs a loss making business because gamepass.

Xbox hardware makes them good money through cut of third party revenue. I don't understand what 'native gamepass' is though.

Well that’s the cost-benefit computation they’ll need to continually review. If the revenue they generate through Xbox hardware and software is being offset by operating losses from GamePass, going full third party and taking GamePass subs across signifcantly more platforms could end up making them significantly more overall. It also might not. It’s something they’d have to continually determine.

Also, “native GamePass” is as opposed to delivering GamePass through xCloud, i.e. running GamePass games natively on the platform hardware. I thought that should have been obvious.
 
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Exclusivity will take a while to pay off but when Bethesda starts releasing new iterations of Doom, Elder Scrolls, Fallout and of course Starfield, Playstation is going to feel like the inferior choice to consumers.

By the end of this generation and moving on to the next, people are going to be speculating if Sony can even stay in the market with Microsoft and Nintendo.
50 cent laughing GIF
 

Derktron

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I want to know what happens when this deal goes fully through. I want to know if Bethesda games become fully exclusive to PC and Xbox platforms. It would be ridiculous if Bethesda games are still being made for other consoles.
 
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Topher70

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I want to know what happens when this deal goes fully through. I want to know if Bethesda games become fully exclusive to PC and Xbox platforms. It would be ridiculous if Bethesda games are still being made for other consoles.

“What we’ll do in the long run is we don’t have intentions of just pulling all of Bethesda content out of Sony or Nintendo or otherwise,” Stuart says. “But what we want is we want that content, in the long run, to be either first or better or best or pick your differentiated experience, on our platforms. We will want Bethesda content to show up the best as — on our platforms.”
-Xbox CFO Tim Stuart
Microsoft Wants Bethesda Games 'First or Better or Best' on Xbox (ign.com)
 
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Fredrik

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Unlike Cuphead, Microsoft owns and published Ori.
I know but owning and publishing Ori doesn’t matter much, someone must be capable of making the game as well. At this point I don’t see another studio making a new Ori game, MS essentially has to get Moon interested in making a new one and if they’re doing a multiplat for x years now it means it’ll take x years until they can start making a Ori game and x+4 or so years before it gets released. It’s a problem. Realistically the Ori IP might skip the Series generation all together besides the 120fps update of Will of the Wisps we just got. MS owns the IP but Moon is in full control of it’s future.
 
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Fredrik

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No, Microsoft would earn money from PlayStation gamers on PlayStation. Microsoft is sacrificing 30% of their game revenue when putting it on other platforms. Why does it matter to Microsoft if that money is going to Sony or Valve?
MS makes money from people playing anything on PC since they make the operating system and playing on PC means they can lure you into a Game Pass subscription. The game sale is just one part of the equation.
 

fighterman101

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"we don’t have intentions of just pulling all of Bethesda content out of Sony or Nintendo or otherwise,” Going by this, it seems like all the games that are still being made on Playstation/Nintendo will be released, but projects that are just being started on (Elder scrolls and next fallout) will be only xbox/pc. I have a feeling there won't be a PS5 version of starfield, but a PS4 version that can be ran via backwards compatibility.
 
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Hudo

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I have learnt on GAF that a game being exclusive to one platform makes it much more enjoyable. Just knowing that I can play a game that others want to play but can't is peak gaming.
Except when Microsoft do it, then it's shit.
 

Clear

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"we don’t have intentions of just pulling all of Bethesda content out of Sony or Nintendo or otherwise,” Going by this, it seems like all the games that are still being made on Playstation/Nintendo will be released, but projects that are just being started on (Elder scrolls and next fallout) will be only xbox/pc. I have a feeling there won't be a PS5 version of starfield, but a PS4 version that can be ran via backwards compatibility.

They are just going to do whatever is best for business.

Too many people round here can't see beyond "sticking it to Sony" despite the fact that MS have themselves stated that their new business objectives no longer makes Playstation their primary competitor.

Its hilarious, the ones getting outraged are those that can't handle the idea that MS wouldn't opt for blanket exclusivity for any reason.
 
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Bernkastel

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They are just going to do whatever is best for business.

Too many people round here can't see beyond "sticking it to Sony" despite the fact that MS have themselves stated that their new business objectives no longer makes Playstation their primary competitor.

Its hilarious, the ones getting outraged are those that can't handle the idea that MS wouldn't opt for blanket exclusivity for any reason.
Its hilarious that people project their wishlist as "best for business".
 

CatLady

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Game Pass introduces more people to try a game. And many people who try a game on Game Pass end up buying it, we all do. Because people like to own their games.

Unlike Cuphead, Microsoft owns and published Ori.

I was sure Moon still owned the IP, but just now looked it up Bing and you are 100% correct. Great news, it's an awesome IP and while I'd prefer to see Moon make more Ori games at least we know it can still happen even if Moon doesn't want to deal with the Ori IP anymore. Just don't give it to 343 :messenger_beaming:
 
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Hendrick's

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All bethesda games after 2021 will be exclusive to xbox / PC/ Streaming. Microsoft need these games for xbox game pass and xbox to be successful. Starfield and Bethesda mmo games I think will be on PS4, but will not have a PS5 version of the game. Kind of like psychonauts 2.
It would be hilarious if MS release all Bethesda games on PS4, but not PS5.
 

quest

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Its hilarious that people project their wishlist as "best for business".
But only when it is in Sony's favor. Sony buys studios or IP keep that shit exclusive. Microsoft buys something it needs to be on playstation to make money lol. Microsoft should totally spend 7.5 billion to help Sony when Sony was trying to lock up every single zenimax game as a timed exclusive content starving them out of the market with the other timed exclusive deals.
 

Fredrik

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I was sure Moon still owned the IP, but just now looked it up Bing and you are 100% correct. Great news, it's an awesome IP and while I'd prefer to see Moon make more Ori games at least we know it can still happen even if Moon doesn't want to deal with the Ori IP anymore. Just don't give it to 343 :messenger_beaming:
Yeah but who could realistically make an Ori game in the same style? Moon consists of a bunch of super talented perfectionists, in my opinion only rivaled by Nintendo and Team Cherry, I don’t think MS have any studio that could make such a game right now.
 

Zannegan

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Given how Evergreen Skyrim has been, and how successful all the Fallout projects are, not to mention all their associated studios, I'd be inclined to agree. I have a bad feeling about Starfield though. I guess we'll see this year.

Even if my fears are unfounded and it turns out great, I'm willing to bet MS pushes them to ramp up development on ES7.

EDIT: Wait, what Elder Scrolls are we on again? lol
 
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Dabaus

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I see you're still deluding yourself. Man that hopium you're smoking must be some good stuff.
Reread what I said. The person who controls the finances of Xbox flat out said these games would at most be timed exclusives. This person is basically Phil’s boss and tells him what he can and can’t do.
 
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Reread what I said. The person who controls the finances of Xbox flat out said these games would at most be timed exclusives. This person is basically Phil’s boss and tells him what he can and can’t do.
He said no such thing and even if he did, that would be illegal. Phil Spencer has been very very careful with the words he chose simply because they have NOT bought them yet. I would assume Zenimax would give Microsoft access to confidential information as part of the deal process but they are not allowed to even HINT at any details.

Saying anything definitive like that would cause stock to change. If it goes up, the deal of 7.5B becomes undervalued and MS can be sued. If it goes down because Phil couldn't shut his mouth, MS can be sued to oblivion.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about so I suggest you shut up and stop talking like anything is set in stone yet.

Edit: Spencer reports directly to the CEO. This deal was most likely run by the actual CFO of MS, Amy Hood and not the Xbox CFO seeing how big it is.
 
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Bernkastel

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I'm not going to be disappointed or upset no matter how things play out. Can you say the same?
For someone claiming to not be bothered you sure post a lot about what makes sense for business.
The question was does it matter if MS is forking over 30% in fees to PlayStation versus Steam. MS is still having to share revenue since they have committed all their future XGS games to Steam.
It does to matter to Microsoft when the incentive to invest in their biggest source of revenue is gone.
 
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