HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Right.
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Phil Spencer may 2022 "we are in a disaster situation" "a gap of almost 16 months with no exclusives" "Our next big game launch is Redfall"
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
Killjoy-NL
Member
Yet, the issue lies within even attempting to. Even discussing it is a clear sign that they have no problem whatsoever. This is all very calculated.
And if they do, the downfall of the industry is the inevitable outcome.
There is no way around it. And yes, if any other company got busted for doing the very same thing, to the same extent, they deserve the same treatment.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
Oh sorry i didn't understand we were talking about sony buying nintendo.
Well like you said, we don't know, we can't read sony secret emails, i can just make an educated guess that jimbo would love to be the only one making consoles and videogames because that would bring more money, exactly like apple would erase samsung or bmw would erase mercedes, it is capitalism 101.
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OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
#sonytoo lol. Seriously though. I'm just working on what we know as facts. When you (or others) say "sony would do it to if they could!" It just sounds like deflection.
Snowdonhoffen
Member
Yeah, I don't doubt Jimbo has said some bad stuff over email too. But what makes it worse for MS is the fact that you have Phil saying one thing to the public and pretty much the opposite in private.
dem
Member
Back 4 Blood was fun for a little bit
Stare-Bear
Banned
This reads like an email from someone who just joined the team... Only problem is, he's been at the helm for over a decade...the good take is that they learned from the mistakes and will improve by building a winning plan
The gap between Halo Infinite and Xbox's next AAA game in 2022 was a "disaster situation" says Phil Spencer
2022 wasn't the best time for Microsoft's games sectionwww.gamesradar.com
But what are all their first party studios doing?! At the time they had what, 28 first party studios? Are they all just messing about?
VideoGameEnjoyer
Member
Sunken cost Gamepass fallacy.
How many acquisitions, how many billions before they reevaluate this plan? The amount of money they throw at this is absolutely insane, and yet the games are infrequent and often disappointing no matter how many studios they buy or how infinite the budget.
How many acquisitions, how many billions before they reevaluate this plan? The amount of money they throw at this is absolutely insane, and yet the games are infrequent and often disappointing no matter how many studios they buy or how infinite the budget.
GymWolf
Gold Member
He is an idiot and most probably an incompetent, you are not gonna hear the opposite from me.
the_master
Member
I would like to see all the cocky people here having to deal with that situation.
See what kind of email woukd they write if one at all. Like in the real life situation not just “I would release more games, I would make sure this did not happen” and all the easy “solutions”
See what kind of email woukd they write if one at all. Like in the real life situation not just “I would release more games, I would make sure this did not happen” and all the easy “solutions”
GymWolf
Gold Member
There is nothing to deflect dude, we have proof that phil at least had an idea\intention of doing all of that
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
I'm talking about people deflecting negtive attention away from ms. The #sonytoo crowd.There is nothing to deflect dude, we have proof that phil at least had an idea\intention of doing all of that
DrFigs
Member
it's one thing after another. clearly the business model doesn't work. but i think these ceo's really only care about their own legacy at these companies. so it seems nice to have this clearly unsustainable product that makes a big splash and let the next guy take the fall for when it inevitably crumbles. we see what type of time Phil's on when he said buying Nintendo would really boost his ego or whatever. Personally, i think Jim Ryan has a similar issue with playstation's pc strategy. so it's not just picking on Phil.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
Well i was kinda istigated, my first post was just to show some empathy, i didn't even named sony, then slimy told me that phil deserve the hate and M deserve the leaks and i just pointed out how the other 2 are not angels neither.
My first post was the only contribute i had for the topic before being quoted.
Cyberpunkd
Member
I mean, his emails are striking as they paint a picture of someone that deeply misunderstands the market he is in.
Case in point: power vs. PS5. This is after the Wii and the Switch and a situation where Sony has a huge number of incredible IPs and Microsoft struggled there all throughout XB1. Yet here you have a guy writing to his boss boasting about teraflops like a console warrior. I would understand this was written to his team so some BS to be expected but higher up? At the same time you can even see in the email BoD tried to temper his enthusiasm, these are most of the time people that’s been in the industry for decades, they know their shit.
Hawking Radiation
Member
Lol what the hell did I wake up to?
What's going on with MS and Spencer?
What's going on with MS and Spencer?
Jinzo Prime
Member
Do you need a recap? It's pretty wild!Lol what the hell did I wake up to?
What's going on with MS and Spencer?
Vol5
Member
Fix everything via a magic email.
Woeful management. Truly woeful. Not even a hint of a meeting to exchange ideas, get the ball rolling, get people invested or when he wants results....It's so cringe.....I just hope this is like some sort of pre-amble before he starts dropping the hammer, but I seriously doubt it.
Head of XBOX ladies and gents.
Woeful management. Truly woeful. Not even a hint of a meeting to exchange ideas, get the ball rolling, get people invested or when he wants results....It's so cringe.....I just hope this is like some sort of pre-amble before he starts dropping the hammer, but I seriously doubt it.
Head of XBOX ladies and gents.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
For the record I don't even hate Microsoft but anyone who thinks that they were, are and ever will be pro consumer is a first class moron.
Barakov
Member
Bernoulli
M2 slut
the plan has changedLol what the hell did I wake up to?
What's going on with MS and Spencer?
Thirty7ven
Banned
Had their pro bono shills swearing things were great all that time though.
Worthless company.
Worthless company.
I think he is Phil Harrison with a Phil Harrison mask under that.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Phil Harrison is back but now with a gaming tshirt and a shelf.
Those people are the enablers of the incompetence.
The CEO is out there calling it a disaster while the plebs are out there cheering the fact that they pay MS for it.
Exactly, a true leader would have seen it was a disaster then remedied the situation by securing some more good third party content for the subscription at the very least.
The problem with Phil is that you never know what the hell is going on in his head and the shills excuse everything with bullshit like how the disaster is actually great or that it's the competition starving it of content. Now we see they just didn't pay to secure it. Was Phil not securing that content because he was trying to keep margins in check and ride it out? If gamepass is "profitable and sustainable" why on earth is he telling regulators that he will exit the gaming business if subs don't increase substantially by 2027? Why would you kill a "profitable and sustainable" business?
Phil talks too much bullshit and you never know what's actually the truth with that guy.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Once you're on a track, it's difficult to get off.
First, he promised a subscription model with sustained revenue. The only way Xbox exists today is that Microsoft's CEO thought that was in line with their other business ventures.
But the problem with pushing this model AND the PC Day 1 Model (which is what they feel they need to do in order to get GamePass exposure on PC) is that it devalues the console and it devalues B2P.
As a result, it will cost 2x what it cost Sony to get exclusives, maybe even more. He doesn't have the money for that. What game could he have gotten exclusive in the last 18 months?
He knows GamePass isn't profitable, which is why they never discuss GamePass in terms of sustained profitability nor is it included in their financial reports. He's promised Nadella a path to profitability.
They're in a race. He brings up the innovator's dilemma because he knows he's in a race against himself.
The thing is that he has gone on record and said it's already profitable and sustainable.
Yet he then went on to tell regulators that if he doesn't hit a certain number of subs by 2027 he's exiting the gaming business. Why would you exit a business that's already profitable and sustainable? He's either bullshiting the public or he's bullshiting regulators.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Let me go into greater detail on why Microsoft is struggling with exclusives and the bigger the game the bigger the struggle.
You have two consoles
Console A and Console B.
Console A has 50 million users and Console B has 25 million users.
All things being equal Game X can sell twice as much on Console A as Console B. Let's say 10 million vs 5 million.
In order for Console B's manufacturer to get an exclusivity deal, they need to smooth over that 10 million unit difference and at 70 dollars instead of 60 dollars, that's 700 million dollars... but it doesn't stop there.
I want to build Game X out as a franchise, so if Game X1 isn't available on Console A, will Console A's 50 million userbase be interested in Game X2 without having played Game X1? You need to make me whole there as well, and probably for Game X3 as well.
What happens if expectations for Game X go from 10 million to 15 million or 20 million on Console A?
But let's look at it the other way. If I'm Console Maker A, I know that I can afford the 5 million units of compensation. That's only 350 million. And by keeping Console B's userbase low by starving it of games, the costs that I have to pay studios for exclusivity actually stays low. And because I'm going to sell 10 million units on my platform, I'm going to get 30 percent of that back anyways. That's already 210 million. So really, that only cost me 140 million plus franchise losses.
The other problem is Microsoft's GamePass which encourages gamers not to buy games.
This means any exclusivity deal has to include GamePass, so you have to cover that full 5 million units up front, whether the game was going to sell 5 million at all and you don't get any residuals. You only maintain or try to maintain subscribers or hopefully increase subscribers.
But gamers are fickle, just because you like one game doesn't make you a lifetime subscriber.
It's a dangerous model that doesn't work in gaming.
You have two consoles
Console A and Console B.
Console A has 50 million users and Console B has 25 million users.
All things being equal Game X can sell twice as much on Console A as Console B. Let's say 10 million vs 5 million.
In order for Console B's manufacturer to get an exclusivity deal, they need to smooth over that 10 million unit difference and at 70 dollars instead of 60 dollars, that's 700 million dollars... but it doesn't stop there.
I want to build Game X out as a franchise, so if Game X1 isn't available on Console A, will Console A's 50 million userbase be interested in Game X2 without having played Game X1? You need to make me whole there as well, and probably for Game X3 as well.
What happens if expectations for Game X go from 10 million to 15 million or 20 million on Console A?
But let's look at it the other way. If I'm Console Maker A, I know that I can afford the 5 million units of compensation. That's only 350 million. And by keeping Console B's userbase low by starving it of games, the costs that I have to pay studios for exclusivity actually stays low. And because I'm going to sell 10 million units on my platform, I'm going to get 30 percent of that back anyways. That's already 210 million. So really, that only cost me 140 million plus franchise losses.
The other problem is Microsoft's GamePass which encourages gamers not to buy games.
This means any exclusivity deal has to include GamePass, so you have to cover that full 5 million units up front, whether the game was going to sell 5 million at all and you don't get any residuals. You only maintain or try to maintain subscribers or hopefully increase subscribers.
But gamers are fickle, just because you like one game doesn't make you a lifetime subscriber.
It's a dangerous model that doesn't work in gaming.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
The statements are entirely vague. Profitable for what period? Saying it accounts for 15% of revenue means absolutely nothing.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
SonyToo™You think that the other 2 bigs are honest and pure because you don't read their private emails?
The 15% is just some other fact but he has been reiterating publicly that gamepass is profitable for them. Exact accounting isn't given but he seems to suggest it is profitable and sustainable
"Gamepass is profitable, Xbox is profitable. I've said it's sustainable, but people ask me what I mean by that," Spencer said.
He explains it here.
Game Pass and Xbox are profitable, Phil Spencer reiterates
Microsoft gaming CEO Phil Spencer reiterates that the value-oriented Xbox Game Pass subscription service and the Xbox business as a whole are profitable.
www.tweaktown.com
What I want to know is why he is saying he will exit the gaming business to regulators if this is the case. He has to be bullshiting somebody. I suspect it's the public he's bullshiting by the fact that he did not secure content to make up for the disastrous 16 months. In the hope that it will lower costs and make up profit margins without affecting subscriber count/churn.
Games of Today
Member
Jesus if Xbox was failing before Redfall, I can only imagine what is happening now.
SimTourist
Member
People still dunk on Mattrick but at least he secured some cool original games for the Xbox One launch period, Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break, Ryse (eh), Killer Instinct, not perfect but all of them could be improved with sequels. Series SX gen has been dry as hell and we're almost halfway through the generation. Don't really care for Bethesda cause those games would've been on Xbox anyway, no real gain for the player here. All those studios but nothing comes out.
Badlucktroll
Member
DeaDPo0L84
Member
I can't wait for the eventual documentary on what happened at Microsoft concerning the gaming division once they decide to exit.
NickFire
Member
If none of the game development cost is counted as a GP expense, then basically only the cost of 3rd party content and running the platform would offset revenue to determine if its profitable. I wouldn't even call that bullshitting necessarily. But the people floating the idea that it does not hurt sales because a handful of indies probably sold more due to exposure would be grade A bullshit, intended to deflect that profitability for one component may be based on decreased profitability of another.The 15% is just some other fact but he has been reiterating publicly that gamepass is profitable for them. Exact accounting isn't given but he seems to suggest it is profitable and sustainable
"Gamepass is profitable, Xbox is profitable. I've said it's sustainable, but people ask me what I mean by that," Spencer said.
He explains it here.
Game Pass and Xbox are profitable, Phil Spencer reiterates
Microsoft gaming CEO Phil Spencer reiterates that the value-oriented Xbox Game Pass subscription service and the Xbox business as a whole are profitable.
What I want to know is why he is saying he will exit the gaming business to regulators if this is the case. He has to be bullshiting somebody. I suspect it's the public he's bullshiting by the fact that he did not secure content to make up for the disastrous 16 months. In the hope that it will lower costs and make up profit margins without affecting subscriber count/churn.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Haven't you heard? Since Starfield launched, the narrative™ finally caught up that Game Pass indeed does cannibalize sales.
NickFire
Member
Why you bringing up irrelevant narratives?
Sales don't even matter anymore. And expenses don't either. Bow down to your engagement overlords and start sucking.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Elysium44
Banned
I don't understand it either. Is Satya Nadella oblivious to the situation? Has Spencer got him fooled with his sales patter and endless promises of future success too? If I'm a big shareholder I want to know why we're pouring money down this bottomless pit.
Daneel Elijah
Member
It depends of what happened when Satya Nadella got in charge of Microsoft. We know that they did made it hard for the Xbox division for a time, and that some studios got closed. If Phil managed to convince Nadella of the Gamepass potential, he maybe convinced him that the lack of ressources around the Xbox One fiasco hurted Xbox too and that they needed time to fix it. Microsoft is really profitable so their gaming expenses are not really a problem and Nadella is probably part of that success. So having even more success by taking over gaming and becoming the next Netflix would be worth a try. We got leaks that show them around 2020 or 2021 (i think) planning for a 60 millions Xbox sold for the gen. So they are not really unaware of the situation. Just not being conscious of the small failures that piled on( Covid, Halo Infinite delay and failure to maintain gamers engagement, Starfield delay, the Ukraine war...) and harmed them more than Sony for a lot of reasons. One of them could be their inferior management, but this is probably a matter of taste.
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