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Pig to Skunk: "Is it just me or does it stink in here?"

-Kh- said:
If he is so worried, he should look towards MS first, and see how they are starting to run away in Japan.
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I know what you mean, don't worry, yet I can't help but find this sentence ironic without the context of your opinion. I mean, if anything, isn't the reason why Sony is losing to Microsoft precisely that they looked towards MS a bit too closely? As someone said in the "Japanese development has lost" thread, nearly all of Sony's upcoming/released big titles for the PS3 are Western titles, or Western-inspired. Things like MAG, Motorstorm and Resistance have become more prominent on Sony's console this gen, whereas there were more Japanese titles previous gen. That, plus Sony aimed for the top with hardware specs this gen, as they saw the "threat" of MS on the hardware front. They thought that what they had to do to be ahead of Microsoft was to be ahead in terms of tech (the PS1 and PS2 weren't the most powerful systems of their respective gens... They were good enough), but what did that lead them to? Awfully expensive hardware, with an architecture which, from the looks of it, is hard to program for.

Sony focused on the competition so badly that they forgot that the PS3's "advantages" (which are really liabilities) aren't what made the PS1 and 2 successful in the first place. How they could be so blind? It baffles me. Oh well, let's just say they're young in this industry. Nintendo made similar mistakes, so...
 
snatches said:
Agreed. Nintendo would have still broke new ground but Sony would be laying the smackdown on MS and if Sony was pacing the 360's price since launch then MS wouldn't have had a chance.
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No doubt at all. PS3 would be way ahead of 360. I think, pace to be a PSP+ level of success at least.
 
Smokey said:
Don't get it twisted...MS isn't running away with anything. They are ALMOST a non threat in Japan.

But yes, they do need JRPGs. Badly.
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Sure they are not, no one is saying otherwise, but before going after the first, you have to be second, unless Ms and the 360 are invisible to his eyes.

The problem is not the 360 selling 6k, the problem is the PS3 selling 5k.
 
Something about this thread seems fishy.

Oh well its not my fault he can't bear the thought of the Wii being out in front...
 
Are people serious about the "JRPG SONY!!!!" line? Even in Japan, their influence on consoles has waned quite dramatically. Sure, it might be a case of the chicken and the egg, but handhelds are the new home of JRPGs in Japan.

And well, Sony aren't just having problems in Japan. Everywhere else they'll do nothing.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
It's a nice thought, but if these games are Killzone, Infamous, and GoW 3, they won't make a bit of difference in Japan no matter how awesome they are.
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true, but they'll have a huge impact on two much larger markets.

I can understand Sony's reluctance to invest in costly RPGs that will only do well in Japan.
 
LiK said:
i think nintendo is already at the finish line. right Reggie?

153448-1-1.jpg
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Hide the children!
 
Pein said:
jrpg's sony, seriously
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this...
honestly this is where they f'd up for me, and the fact that every fighter has been released on 360 as well. And the price... I just couldn't justify it.
 
joetachi said:
I thought this generation was in the bag for Sony until i saw the price.
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I think a lot of people assumed this as well but also, a lot of people knew they were in for trouble as soon as Nintendo showed off the Wii controller. But their comments were drowned out by people who assumed the way things are were the way they would always be. The crow that was served was unbelievable.

E306 was one of the best ever. Not only for the infamous $599 speech but watching folks run over other people as soon as E3 opened so they could stand in line for hours on end just to play the Wii.

Byakuya769 said:
Sony's showing at TGS convinced me that they're ready to claim a larger stake in the market. Just you guys watch.
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Wait... which TGS year are you talking about? 2006?
 
When he says that they can't affort to let Nintendo run off I'm pretty sure he's already talking about next gen. Of course they won't let Nintendo get the casual market all for themselves with their next gen products without trying to be competitive.
 
Kilrogg said:
I know what you mean, don't worry, yet I can't help but find this sentence ironic without the context of your opinion. I mean, if anything, isn't the reason why Sony is losing to Microsoft precisely that they looked towards MS a bit too closely? As someone said in the "Japanese development has lost" thread, nearly all of Sony's upcoming/released big titles for the PS3 are Western titles, or Western-inspired. Things like MAG, Motorstorm and Resistance have become more prominent on Sony's console this gen, whereas there were more Japanese titles previous gen. That, plus Sony aimed for the top with hardware specs this gen, as they saw the "threat" of MS on the hardware front. They thought that what they had to do to be ahead of Microsoft was to be ahead in terms of tech (the PS1 and PS2 weren't the most powerful systems of their respective gens... They were good enough), but what did that lead them to? Awfully expensive hardware, with an architecture which, from the looks of it, is hard to program for.

Sony focused on the competition so badly that they forgot that the PS3's "advantages" (which are really liabilities) aren't what made the PS1 and 2 successful in the first place. How they could be so blind? It baffles me. Oh well, let's just say they're young in this industry. Nintendo made similar mistakes, so...
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THIS
 
Amir0x said:
I used to believe if Sony PS3 came in at $299, they would have won.

I think they certainly would have been in a MUCH better position, no doubt. But looking at the landscape (in retrospect) I actually think a loss was coming to them one way or the other. The groundwork was laid with the DS, which gave consumers a desire for this 'different' software, regardless of that software's actual value. If it was different, it was enough.
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Will you ever get off your high horse? This software didn't sell just because it was different, it sold because a hell of a lot of people found it fun, entertaining or useful, regardless if you think it has no value. This is not rocket science.
 
Elios83 said:
When he says that they can't affort to let Nintendo run off I'm pretty sure he's already talking about next gen. Of course they won't let Nintendo get the casual market all for themselves with their next gen products without trying to be competitive.
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That is a given, but I doubt they'll be able to do anything to significantly hamper Nintendo's success. Nintendo has shown that they're willing to aggressively keep the expanded audience for themselves (see the E3 conference, almost entirely devoted to the expanded audience), and as far as development goes, Nintendo has a long history of making hits that are easy to learn and play. I don't think you can easily compete with that if you're not an experienced integrated hardware and software company. Only SEGA could do that, with a poorer business acumen, sadly for them.

Of course, the solution to the problem would be to find a new underserved market and progressively disrupt the industry AGAIN, but that takes great business acumen, time, and dedication... And by "dedication", I mean you have to WANT to actively pursue said market. Sony is so tied by the fact that they've got their hands in other business (TVs, hi-fi...) that they're just not free to do whatever they want in the game industry, because that wouldn't serve their interests as a conglomerate. Things can't change in 5, even 10 years. Nintendo pretty much has a lock on next-gen too at this point, unless they really screw things up and/or a new company enters the market and miraculously disrupts them... Which seems unlikely. Not even Apple seems to be able to do that for now.
 
Private Hoffman said:
true, but they'll have a huge impact on two much larger markets.

I can understand Sony's reluctance to invest in costly RPGs that will only do well in Japan.
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The best thing about Playstation consoles is that you used to get the COD's, Guitar Hero's and Burnouts and the exclusive Japanese RPG's and action-games. Now we get the COD's, Guitar Hero's and Burnouts and Sony's own COD's and no Japanese RPG's or exclusive action-games. The Japanese market for HD gaming could've been much bigger if Sony was actually supporting their platform in that region.

Why do they need Killzone 2 and Resistance 2? I really can't see the logic in that, one is their holiday game and one of them won't make the holidays. It's like Microsoft had Gears of War 2 for the holidays and launched Halo 3 a few months later. Just look at combinations like Forza 2 followed by PGR4 within months to see why this doesn't work. It would be better if they made games that fill the gaps in their line-up's. Strategy games or RPG games for example. It's just as stupid as SEGA developing their own sports-games(although that had different reasons). You're eventually pushed into a corner with only first party titles because the third parties don't want to compete with first party games.
 
The REALLY funny part about this is that Nintendo telegraphed their punch with the DS and Sony STILL didn't think anything of it until it was too late.
 
I think Sony had to face 3 major problems this gen

1) The price of Blu Ray and the decision to include it.
2) Much better competition from MS and more importantly Nintendo.
3) PS3 is much too difficult to develop for. We can see this in the long development times of PS3 games.

This lead to losses of third party exlusives and lead to even lower sales. Sony needs more games like Little Big Planet and FF13 to get things together again.
 
[Nintex] said:
The best thing about Playstation consoles is that you used to get the COD's, Guitar Hero's and Burnouts and the exclusive Japanese RPG's and action-games. Now we get the COD's, Guitar Hero's and Burnouts and Sony's own COD's and no Japanese RPG's or exclusive action-games. The Japanese market for HD gaming could've been much bigger if Sony was actually supporting their platform in that region.

Why do they need Killzone 2 and Resistance 2? I really can't see the logic in that, one is their holiday game and one of them won't make the holidays. It's like Microsoft had Gears of War 2 for the holidays and launched Halo 3 a few months later. Just look at combinations like Forza 2 followed by PGR4 within months to see why this doesn't work. It would be better if they made games that fill the gaps in their line-up's. Strategy games or RPG games for example. It's just as stupid as SEGA developing their own sports-games(although that had different reasons). You're eventually pushed into a corner with only first party titles because the third parties don't want to compete with first party games.
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Well one thing that pisses me off about Nintendo is that one-big-title-per-quarter-attitude. Fuck that! Give me great games asap and don't hold them back artificially.
 
Im remember a while back someone made a history of who ruled the console era's

and i remember nintendo ruled for 3 years and then sony took over.... its only natural that every 3 years a new leader is born :D

anyone remember that? the number 3 curse?
 
Sony is an electronics company not a video game company. They put their video game power into making blu-ray the winner over HD-DVD, which would be best for the Sony company over all. They did that, now they have to scramble to rebuild their video game industry. Sacrifice one sector to incredibly boost a different sector. business is business and playstation fans were caught in the cross-fire. the truth sucks.
 
LOcKY said:
Im remember a while back someone made a history of who ruled the console era's

and i remember nintendo ruled for 3 years and then sony took over.... its only natural that every 3 years a new leader is born :D

anyone remember that? the number 3 curse?
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Both Nintendo and Sony were on top for longer than that.

I thought you ment generations, but they both only lasted 2 as well.
 
ahhh thats what i meant :) so back to the topic..... no matter what sony did he was bound to be toppled by the curse :D
 
[Nintex] said:
The best thing about Playstation consoles is that you used to get the COD's, Guitar Hero's and Burnouts and the exclusive Japanese RPG's and action-games. Now we get the COD's, Guitar Hero's and Burnouts and Sony's own COD's and no Japanese RPG's or exclusive action-games. The Japanese market for HD gaming could've been much bigger if Sony was actually supporting their platform in that region.

Why do they need Killzone 2 and Resistance 2? I really can't see the logic in that, one is their holiday game and one of them won't make the holidays. It's like Microsoft had Gears of War 2 for the holidays and launched Halo 3 a few months later. Just look at combinations like Forza 2 followed by PGR4 within months to see why this doesn't work. It would be better if they made games that fill the gaps in their line-up's. Strategy games or RPG games for example. It's just as stupid as SEGA developing their own sports-games(although that had different reasons). You're eventually pushed into a corner with only first party titles because the third parties don't want to compete with first party games.
Click to expand...

Why do they need Killzone 2 and Resistance 2? Because those games sell tons to the hardcore in western markets.

CoD4 - ~10 million sold
Halo 3 - ~9 million sold
Gears of War - ~5 million sold, sequel likely to sell better.

You can add up the sales of almost all the exclusive JRPGs that have released on the Xbox 360 and they still wouldn't come close to the sales of 1 blockbuster shooter.

Western gamers like their shooters and their multiplayer. I do not see this trend changing at all.

Now, I cannot tell you why the exclusive Xbox 360 RPGs aren't coming to the PS3 as well (Microsoft money hats?), but Sony doesn't seem to care about those titles not coming out for the PS3 enough to subsidize them in some form or fashion, preferring to invest that money into their own IPs from western studios. Exclusive RPGs on the 360 from third parties have been average or below average, so I can't honestly blame them. Final Fantasy XIII is the only RPG that will genuinely have a huge impact, and that's still exclusive in Japan.

Sony still has quite a lot of work to do in the west, and given that this market dwarfs the Japanese one AND the fact that western studios appear to be more talented and attuned to a changing marketplace, I don't blame the direction Sony is going.

This may piss some JRPG fans off that purchased a PS3 for the promise of RPG titles, but at the same token it also makes others (like myself) happy that investments are going to fund stuff like Killzone 2 over subpar RPGs that are quickly forgotten.
 
Death_Born said:
This is like saying "we can't let Nintendo run away" when they're already miles ahead and you're losing ground.
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the race is over.

nintendo is already at the podium accepting its gold medal.
 
Want to know whats even worse? Nintendo themselves have stated that the wii was an experiment. They never expected it to become as popular as it is.

I find it funny that an experiment is leading the pack right now.

Sony needs jrpgs . I also feel that the delay of home helped bring them down.
 
-Kh- said:
Sure they are not, no one is saying otherwise, but before going after the first, you have to be second, unless Ms and the 360 are invisible to his eyes.

The problem is not the 360 selling 6k, the problem is the PS3 selling 5k.
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The PS3 still commands a substantial lead over the Xbox 360 in Japan.
Latest Media Create thread said:
Code: 
Hardware | This Week | Last Week | Last 4 Weeks | YTD       |    LTD       
DS       |    42,385 |    57,847 |      225,333 | 2,406,791 | 23,579,845
PSP      |    26,045 |    25,671 |      110,546 | 2,809,245 | 10,474,322
WII      |    25,330 |    26,314 |      111,251 | 2,215,488 |  6,831,627
PS2      |     8,618 |     9,848 |       33,855 |   391,029 | 21,318,069
360      |     8,271 |    11,291 |       61,527 |   [b]197,166 |    705,611[/b]
PS3      |     7,232 |     8,275 |       31,716 |   [b]689,482 |  2,331,158[/b]
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This whole notion of the Xbox 360 being ahead of the PS3 now is a tad misguided. Enjoy your moments in the sun, but don't get crazy. Just to make up the sales lead the PS3 accumulated this year, the 360 would have to continue this "second place" scenario for nine years straight.
 
bcn-ron said:
The PS3 still commands a substantial lead over the Xbox 360 in Japan.
This whole notion of the Xbox 360 being ahead of the PS3 now is a tad misguided. Enjoy your moments in the sun, but don't get crazy. Just to make up the sales lead the PS3 accumulated this year, the 360 would have to continue this "second place" scenario for nine years straight.
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Very true, but there is something to be said for momentum and perception. Let's say the PS3 outsells the Wii for five weeks in a row and is selling 2 or 3 times better than it was. Won't many Sony fans be crowing about that?
 
snatches said:
Agreed. Nintendo would have still broke new ground but Sony would be laying the smackdown on MS and if Sony was pacing the 360's price since launch then MS wouldn't have had a chance.
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There is no way to prove that this would have been the case. I personally don't think that MS 'wouldn't have had a chance' had the PS3 been the same price.

Games like Gears of War, Halo 3, Mass Effect, and Bioshock, in addition to the rash of former Sony-only-now-multiplatform titles should make one think twice about Sony's "what might have been" dominance.
 
Amir0x said:
I bet when he is on his death bed in thirty years or so, he will look back and find his destruction of the PlayStation brand his biggest regret! Bigger than that one guy he murdered!
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:lol :lol :lol

OldJadedGamer said:
But it was ok for Sony when the PS2 ran off alone? I don't get it... what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
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I doubt Kaz is speaking on behalf of the industry and what a Nintendo dominated market would mean. He's obviously talking about what it would mean to Sony. So of course from his point of view a dominant PS2 was a good thing.

majortom1981 said:
Want to know whats even worse? Nintendo themselves have stated that the wii was an experiment. They never expected it to become as popular as it is.

I find it funny that an experiment is leading the pack right now.
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The thing is though Nintendo didn't have a choice so it's not like they were particularly visionary in this regard, except of course they were able to read what excites the every-man. After the complete failure of the Gamecube Nintendo had nowhere to go but sideways. They simply couldn't compete in the traditional console race anymore.

It's weird the gamble is the market leader to be sure, but Nintendo haven't captured the same market the PS2 did. They've tapped a different beast entirely.
 
soldat7 said:
There is no way to prove that this would have been the case. I personally don't think that MS 'wouldn't have had a chance' had the PS3 been the same price.

Games like Gears of War, Halo 3, Mass Effect, and Bioshock, in addition to the rash of former Sony-only-now-multiplatform titles should make one think twice about Sony's "what might have been" dominance.
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Yep, the PS3 would be doing a bit better but the 360 would probably be as successful as it is now due all of the hits its accumulated.
 
Roders5 said:
Will you ever get off your high horse? This software didn't sell just because it was different, it sold because a hell of a lot of people found it fun, entertaining or useful, regardless if you think it has no value. This is not rocket science.
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Nah it was merely because it was different. If it was because of value, Wii Sports alone would have caused the entire consumer base to automatically demand a refund and probably riot in the streets, followed by repurchasing the system for Super Mario Galaxy and demanding all future Nintendo software was of that calibre "or else."
 
soldat7 said:
There is no way to prove that this would have been the case. I personally don't think that MS 'wouldn't have had a chance' had the PS3 been the same price.

Games like Gears of War, Halo 3, Mass Effect, and Bioshock, in addition to the rash of former Sony-only-now-multiplatform titles should make one think twice about Sony's "what might have been" dominance.
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Let me say it again:

If Sony had launched in November 2005 with the current 40 gb configuration and no blu ray for $399 AND they had always stayed price competitive with similarly equipped 360's.....MS WOULDN'T HAVE STOOD A FUCKING CHANCE

Sure its just lame "what might have been" speculation, but ever since e3 2006 when Sony announced the pricing I have been saying this and it is no less true today.

And surely a lot of those "exclusives" wouldn't have stayed that way, as we are seeing with the shoe on the other foot.....
 
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