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[charlequin]

Your disagreement does not change the fact that federal law says differently.

The enforceability of EULAs isn't settled overall in the US, given differing circuit rulings and precedent on the matter over a wide range of cases and the lack of actual written law on the subject. Vernor v. Autodesk was a pretty big blow to actual consumer rights given how zealously (and, to my mind, wrongly) the 9th Circuit ruled on it, but it's still not a matter of settled and unambiguous law.

 

[Jake Tower]

By the way, even if a 'licensing agreement' bars resale as the Ninth Circuit held, the torrent version of this game, given away for free by the copyright holder, is governed by the first sale doctrine:

However, the same 9th Circuit panel that decided Vernor v. Autodesk, refused to apply Vernor's three-factor test in UMG v. Augusto to a purported licensing agreement created when UMG sent unsolicited promotional CDs to music critics. The promotional CDs' packaging contained the language: "This CD is the property of the record company and is licensed to the intended recipient for personal use only. Acceptance of this CD shall constitute an agreement to comply with the terms of the license. Resale or transfer of possession is not allowed and may be punishable under federal and state laws." Augusto tried to sell these CDs on eBay and UMG argued that first sale doctrine did not apply since the CDs were not sold and only a licensing relationship was created. However the court held that first sale doctrine applies when a copy is given away and that recipients of the promotional CDs did not accept the terms of the license agreement by merely not sending back the unsolicited CDs.​

 

[charlequin]

There is no functional difference between an EULA or a TOS and it is enforceable in court.

Even the brazen power grab that is Vernor v. Autodesk doesn't say anything about the enforceability of an EULA that's just packaged vaguely near a piece of software. To the best of my knowledge there's no US court ruling that would subject people to a license agreement unless they either have to physically break a shrinkwrap seal or click through a dialogue box agreeing to said license.

In a future case, this decision can be used as judicial precedent.

US Circuit courts have their own sets of precedent (in other words, judges outside the 9th Circuit can consider, but aren't bound to respect this ruling) and this topic hasn't been addressed on the Supreme Court level, which means it's very possible the issue will be reconsidered from base principles if SCOTUS ever decides to rule on an EULA case.

(It is true that US -- and international -- copyright law is generally written by industry shills, though, so it's quite unlikely anything would change on the legislative front.)

 

[Dr Zhivago]

I am going to choose to play the demo.

Demos are usually my first point of call. If they are not available, or do not give enough time/variation on the game to make up my mind if I like it or not, then I will try to rent it. I mean there's nothing worse than getting the tutorial level as the demo and wading through the hand-holding etc. If a rental isn't available I will pirate it as my third step, before deciding if it's worth the money or not.

Other times I pirate it is because of a lack of funds, and if the game is enjoyable I later purchase it. Or it is an accessibility thing (i.e. I just want to watch a film I have sat over there on my bookcase, not sit through copy-write screens and un-skippable trailers/adverts for 5-10 minutes on the DVD.)

Seriously?

 

[Baloonatic]

I am going to choose to play the demo.

Demos are usually my first point of call. If they are not available, or do not give enough time/variation on the game to make up my mind if I like it or not, then I will try to rent it. I mean there's nothing worse than getting the tutorial level as the demo and wading through the hand-holding etc. If a rental isn't available I will pirate it as my third step, before deciding if it's worth the money or not.

Other times I pirate it is because of a lack of funds, and if the game is enjoyable I later purchase it. Or it is an accessibility thing (i.e. I just want to watch a film I have sat over there on my bookcase, not sit through copy-write screens and un-skippable trailers/adverts for 5-10 minutes on the DVD.)

Since when did this place loosen up the no piracy rule?

 

[Toppot]

Since when did this place loosen up the no piracy rule?

I think you are generally allowed to dicuss the why, just not the how. It says it's 'generally unacceptable' in the rules. This whole topic is about piracy, but it's not locked and the OP banned. But this isn't a political topic, it is a news item.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=20367506&postcount=1

E. Emulation/Piracy

The topics of emulation and piracy, including the technical nature of emulators and ROM images, hardware modification technology, as well as their effect on the industry as a political topic are deemed to be generally acceptable.

Is a bit of a grey area.

 

[PaulLFC]

Played some more of this and I really like it so far.

The similarities to Game Dev Story are undeniable, but there are some tweaks and new features to differentiate it.

The biggest difference is that there's much more focus on developing the game engines that power your games. You can start off making basic games with no engine, but eventually you'll save up enough funds to build your own engine. Through a combination of research and money, you build an engine, and can include in that engine any features you've researched (and have the money to pay for) up to that point (for example "2D graphics level 2", "Stereo sound", "branching dialogues" etc.

You can then use this engine in your future games (or stick with a basic game using no engine if you wish, but I think this makes it more difficult (impossible?) to get top scores as time progresses). The really nice feature is that you only unlock the ability to research things at certain points, so for example I couldn't research "3D graphics level 1" until later on in the game. So this means of course that eventually you'll have unlocked features that your game engine doesn't feature - so you build a successor. You can only include most features in your game if the engine you're building it with supports them.

It's a constant balancing act between spending money on making a new, more advanced engine, and having the money to make a good game once the engine is ready. It does seem more difficult than Game Dev Story, especially once you move offices. I failed on my first try as I hired too many people and my games weren't selling enough to keep up with the monthly costs of running the company and the salaries. This time I'm staying as a one man team for as long as is viable, as you don't have to pay yourself a salary. If you do have extra employees, they may get low on energy and demotivated, at which point you can send them on holiday to recuperate. Obviously during this time they won't contribute anything to any games in development, but they should contribute more than they were previously once they've rested and returned to work.

Developing the games themselves is very similar to Game Dev Story, with one big difference. You can alter the time spent on each area of the game as you see fit, and as a result more time will be spent on that aspect of development. For example, if you're developing an RTS you might decide that more time should be spent on AI than branching dialogues, and each aspect can be controlled with a slider to focus time as a percentage of that stage of development.

You also appear to be able to develop sequels to any past game, rather than just high-rated games like in Game Dev Story. I guess this more closely resembles real life, as we've seen games such as Two Worlds, which didn't exactly get brilliant review scores as far as I know, get a sequel.

Another differing aspect, as has been covered above, is the ability to sign publisher deals. This gives you an up-front payment and better marketing in exchange for only getting a percentage of each game's sale (say 10%) instead of the full amount. You also have to meet a minimum Metacritic score from reviewers (lol) and may have to develop the game in a certain genre if the contract stipulates it (although there are some contracts that give you the freedom to choose and just depend on metascore).

All in all, I'd say if you liked Game Dev Story, at least play the demo, until the end if possible (the first 3 years). This should give you a good idea if you'd like the game as things like publisher contracts and more research open as the game progresses. Personally I think there's enough improvement and differentiation here to make this worth a purchase, and I've enjoyed what I've played so far.

 

[Da DreadLord]

Is it sad I'm considering buying this just cause of this?

 

[NoirVisage]

Is it sad I'm considering buying this just cause of this?

not sad, but unfortunate if this turns out to be "faked".

 

[Billen]

So very, very sad, and still so amazingly awesome.

 

[jlh]

Is anyone playing this game? I bought it the day the blog post showed up and have been pretty much addicted to it ever since.

It gets brutally hard pretty quick once I leave the garage and requires lots and lots and lots of training/researching, making better & better engines and bowing down before the whims of stupid publishers to stay afloat. I've gone bankrupt like seven times at the second level.

I've only managed to finish the game twice but it's so addictive that I keep going back trying to improve my score. I hope to get a hardware lab this time so that I can finally release my own console, I was close the last time through before that stupid MMO bankrupted me with maintenance costs.

All in all this is a fantastic game that I never would have played if not for this thread so thanks to the OP for bringing much needed attention to it.

 

[bistromathics]

^^^^ That's kinda more of what I'm looking for before buying the game. Saw this thread when it was originally posted and thought "lawl, neat," but ever since the last Player One Podcast, I've had a pretty big itch to play this game. After hearing Greg talk about the game, i totally voted for it on Greenlight and thought I'd forget about it soon after. But here I am searching "Game Dev Tycoon neogaf OT" on google, looking for the extra push that gets me to buy a non-steam game.

And yet there's no OT? Game Dev Story |OT| got me pretty hooked. Only mobile game I've enjoyed to date, other than Super Hexagon.

Need moar impressions.

 

[swirlyglasses]

Need moar impressions.

Yo dawg you don't need no OT theres a demo.

 

[bistromathics]

Yo dawg you don't need no OT theres a demo.

it's straight up dev time

 

[OccamsBlender]

So can you lose money if someone clones your game too?

Ah well. Back to Kairosoft's version!

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Yo dawg I hear you like pirating game dev games so I put some piracy in your pirated game dev game

Spoiler

Sorry if it's been done, too lazy to read all the thread xD

 

[AniHawk]

the trick is to have a couple million dollars before you leave your garage. i made dragoners and fantasies for the tes, and dragoners got me my big break. phantasies (sci-fi rpg) on the first vena thing didn't sell very much, but it helped.

by the time i got to my new place, i had $9m in the bank. this was extremely helpful because i was nearly bankrupt when i decided to make fantasies seven based off a brand new engine (i had to borrow money just to stay afloat), and that one game made me $30m in the long run. i stayed at the second level well into the ps2 years, and only moved out when i made jarod in hell, a sci-fi action game based on a successful vena oasis game, jarod. by then, i had made $60m, and i doubled my staff at the new building. the last decade, i worked on dance games, singing games, and sequels to old franchises like fantasies, jarod, and jammer. at the end of my 30th year, we had the most-visited booth at g3, and our most successful game ever with fantasies x, which sold over 6 million copies.

by the time i was in my last year, the hype machine sells your game for you. i made a game literally called shit-on-a-stick and it got me a cool $34m in profit. now i know what it's like to be naughty dog.

 

[PaulLFC]

So can you lose money if someone clones your game too?

Ah well. Back to Kairosoft's version!

You're only five pages late. Not bad.

Next time, maybe play at least the demo.

 

[usea]

the trick is to have a couple million dollars before you leave your garage. i made dragoners and fantasies for the tes, and dragoners got me my big break. phantasies (sci-fi rpg) on the first vena thing didn't sell very much, but it helped.

by the time i got to my new place, i had $9m in the bank. this was extremely helpful because i was nearly bankrupt when i decided to make fantasies seven based off a brand new engine (i had to borrow money just to stay afloat), and that one game made me $30m in the long run. i stayed at the second level well into the ps2 years, and only moved out when i made jarod in hell, a sci-fi action game based on a successful vena oasis game, jarod. by then, i had made $60m, and i doubled my staff at the new building. the last decade, i worked on dance games, singing games, and sequels to old franchises like fantasies, jarod, and jammer. at the end of my 30th year, we had the most-visited booth at g3, and our most successful game ever with fantasies x, which sold over 6 million copies.

by the time i was in my last year, the hype machine sells your game for you. i made a game literally called shit-on-a-stick and it got me a cool $34m in profit. now i know what it's like to be naughty dog.

This makes me want to play the game.

 

[AniHawk]

This makes me want to play the game.

it's incredibly simple, but very addictive.

eventually you can make your own gaming console, but i put all my effort into research and not training employees.

 

[bistromathics]

I need a whole new engine just to incorporate a joystick?! I guess you really do start out inexperienced :\

 

[AniHawk]

I need a whole new engine just to incorporate a joystick?! I guess you really do start out inexperienced :\

i only incorporated it once i got the 7th or 8th gen 3d engine, which is beyond photorealistic graphics. at that point, i had $9 billion and i was researching everything.

seriously, i had a shitty mmo (1/10), a shitty expansion pack (also a 1/10), and then a third okay one (5.75/10), and it made me a solid couple million dollars because i threw a shitload of advertising behind it. once you start making aaa games, it doesn't matter how good it is, you'll make money on it eventually. then when you really hit it big, you really hit it big. i had a game, simulationcity, and the trend was simulation games. got a 9.5 and sold over 20 million copies. because of that, even though the sequel, drmcity, got a 4.5, it still sold 6 million copies and earned a good $30-40 million.

 

[Froli]

lol... Jesse cox fan friday. 50 minutes of Fun time
Fan Friday! - Game Dev Tycoon

 

[ZealousD]

i only incorporated it once i got the 7th or 8th gen 3d engine, which is beyond photorealistic graphics. at that point, i had $9 billion and i was researching everything.

seriously, i had a shitty mmo (1/10), a shitty expansion pack (also a 1/10), and then a third okay one (5.75/10), and it made me a solid couple million dollars because i threw a shitload of advertising behind it. once you start making aaa games, it doesn't matter how good it is, you'll make money on it eventually. then when you really hit it big, you really hit it big. i had a game, simulationcity, and the trend was simulation games. got a 9.5 and sold over 20 million copies. because of that, even though the sequel, drmcity, got a 4.5, it still sold 6 million copies and earned a good $30-40 million dollars.

This post is way too meta for me to handle.

 

[bishoptl]

I am going to choose to play the demo.

Demos are usually my first point of call. If they are not available, or do not give enough time/variation on the game to make up my mind if I like it or not, then I will try to rent it. I mean there's nothing worse than getting the tutorial level as the demo and wading through the hand-holding etc. If a rental isn't available I will pirate it as my third step, before deciding if it's worth the money or not.

Other times I pirate it is because of a lack of funds, and if the game is enjoyable I later purchase it. Or it is an accessibility thing (i.e. I just want to watch a film I have sat over there on my bookcase, not sit through copy-write screens and un-skippable trailers/adverts for 5-10 minutes on the DVD.)

Quoting this so I don't forget to deal with it tomorrow.

 

[Chanser]

I'll wait for steam version.

 

[sephi22]

Quoting this so I don't forget to deal with it tomorrow.

This is like watching a snuff movie.

 

[0xCA2]

I played the demo. I really love this game.

 

[Vagabundo]

Quoting this so I don't forget to deal with it tomorrow.

Damn, death row is harsh.

 

[NEO0MJ]

This is like watching a snuff movie.

More like a slasher. The killer is just watching his victim, who's helpless to defend himself.

 

[DBT85]

Would be nice if someone released a patch to set all the right names for everything.

Can I ask, at some point do you get to know (as in through research or something) which games are popular at the time or anything like that?

The Demo was ok but it just left me wanting more in depth management.

 

[Wickerbasket]

I bought this game, completed it and had my suspicions confirmed; it's literally a less enjoyable version of Game Dev Story. It also manages to have a lot less charm than the game it takes it's "inspiration" from.

I would have thought that the game would have had more polish and a lot more depth considering that they had the gameplay template handed to them on a silver platter.

Honestly, I would recommend anyone looking for this type of game to get Game Dev Story instead, however, if you're looking for more of the same, buying Game Dev Tycoon wouldn't hurt.

Would be nice if someone released a patch to set all the right names for everything.

Can I ask, at some point do you get to know (as in through research or something) which games are popular at the time or anything like that?

The Demo was ok but it just left me wanting more in depth management.

Researching "Marketing Research" lets you know what game types are popular at the time.

 

[AniHawk]

gave it a second go. was much more successful this time.

 

[AniHawk]

another thing, once you get about 500k fans, the hype machine starts on its own. by that time, you're also self-publishing. i was able to make a really bad mmo called dragon fire online (based off a popular ongoing rpg series from the 80s called dragon fire), and thanks to its expansion, it earned a lot of money over time. my most profitable game, sing! 2 was a sequel to a ps1 game, released a good decade later. the original game had an average score of 1.75 out of 10, but the sequel was heavily hyped thanks to the amount of fans i had and its presence at conventions.

 

[Pandemic]

Tempted to purchase this game, anyone have impressions?

 

[AniHawk]

Tempted to purchase this game, anyone have impressions?

i never played game dev story, so i can't compare, but it's a pretty simple game. you have 30 years to reach whatever success you wish to have for yourself, and you start by making pc games. as you grow, you can make sequels to existing franchises, research new genres, research better graphics, and market your games. you have to know what kind of game deserves what kind of attention while making it (rpgs need more story than level design).

eventually you can hire and train people, who will in turn make better games for you. you can promote games at conventions, sign a contract with publishers, and you're also given the option to insert product placement, shut down people making fan-games of your own, etc

eventually you will be able to make mmos, your own conventions, and your own console.

there's a lot to do, eventually, and even though it's really simple, i thought it was worth it for $8.

 

[Ledsen]

Now they have 3000 pissed off, internet-savvy users who will everyone the game is broken and sucks.

 

[Caerith]

Now they have 3000 pissed off, internet-savvy users who will everyone the game is broken and sucks.

"This game is so unrealistic! My games are getting pirated, resulting in a loss of revenue, but everyone knows that the most profitable games are the ones that nobody pays for!"

 

[BishopLamont]

I keep bankrupting once I move to the second level, I have 4 100k budget devs and my highest game sold 2.8M and I also created a classic game. I guess I gotta cut back on the devs and maybe do a bit more publishing contracts for extra cash.

I should probably save more often too.

gave it a second go. was much more successful this time.

How many devs did you get once you moved to second level?

 

[AniHawk]

I keep bankrupting once I move to the second level, I have 4 100k budget devs and my highest game sold 2.8M and I also created a classic game. I guess I gotta cut back on the devs and maybe do a bit more publishing contracts for extra cash.

I should probably save more often too.


How many devs did you get once you moved to second level?

i only moved once i had $8m in the bank. then i hired two people, one to program, and one to design. we started working on researching medium games right away.

the second stage needs lots of money to get going. you might essentially skip out on an entire generation by not having a huge hit. if you make games for other publishers, you can at least stay afloat while you research for yourself. old standbys are fantasy + rpg and medieval + rpg, and just switching back and forth. with enough research, and on the right system (like the super nintendo, game boy, or playstation), you'll get a big hit (should net you at least $30m). at that point, you can move to the last building. i made sure i had four people and closer to $60m in the bank before i moved on.

fortunately the last stage is a lot easier. making large games gets you a ton of money. i recommend making an mmo as soon as possible too, since they can essentially fund other games of yours for a while. my crummy mmo, dragon fire online, which had a 1/10, basically funded the development of my console, which cost upwards of $150m to make. there was one point where i had to borrow from the bank just to stay afloat, but the mmo took care of that. and then the console more than made up its cost in development in just the first month of sales alone.

 

[BishopLamont]

i only moved once i had $8m in the bank. then i hired two people, one to program, and one to design. we started working on researching medium games right away.

the second stage needs lots of money to get going. you might essentially skip out on an entire generation by not having a huge hit. if you make games for other publishers, you can at least stay afloat while you research for yourself. old standbys are fantasy + rpg and medieval + rpg, and just switching back and forth. with enough research, and on the right system (like the super nintendo, game boy, or playstation), you'll get a big hit (should net you at least $30m). at that point, you can move to the last building. i made sure i had four people and closer to $60m in the bank before i moved on.

fortunately the last stage is a lot easier. making large games gets you a ton of money. i recommend making an mmo as soon as possible too, since they can essentially fund other games of yours for a while. my crummy mmo, dragon fire online, which had a 1/10, basically funded the development of my console, which cost upwards of $150m to make. there was one point where i had to borrow from the bank just to stay afloat, but the mmo took care of that. and then the console more than made up its cost in development in just the first month of sales alone.

I had about 8m when I moved to the second level, because I made a classic game, which moved like a million the first week. I also researched medium games. I found i had more success on the osiris than the plystation or the ninty ones. I had like 5 game engines very early, so I think i gotta cut back on that lol.