sadmaker
Member
The 2012 Panny's were notorious for their image retention. I would steer clear of the 2013's as well until we have data on them.
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Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
The 2012 Panny's were notorious for their image retention. I would steer clear of the 2013's as well until we have data on them.
I curious to how the black levels is on the Sony compared to the VT60.
If i just read into numbers the blacks are way better on the VT60, but how much or how deep can the human eye see this? , aka real world performance matter here to me.
Whiteshirt
Member
The Dell U3014 comes to mind. Better image quality than other current 30" monitors due to better screen coating, has lots of inputs and scaling options and has really low input lag (3-4ms) in game mode.
Of course it's extremely expensive so wait for Dell sales or try and find a discount coupon. Alternative option would be some of the no name single input 30" 2560x1600 monitors from South Korea. I think Amazon and Microcenter sell rebadged versions.
So started my search to upgrade TVs recently, I currently have a plasma, but had it for almost 10years and its starting to go...
So my first real exosure to LED TVs instores and was shocked at how bad any sort of action scene looks on them, regardless of 200hz or not.
Some of them end up looking like youtube streams during frantic scenes.
So Im guessing by the replies in this thread that plasma is still the way to go?
So my first real exosure to LED TVs instores and was shocked at how bad any sort of action scene looks on them, regardless of 200hz or not.
Some of them end up looking like youtube streams during frantic scenes.
So Im guessing by the replies in this thread that plasma is still the way to go?
zomgbbqftw
Banned
runningjoke
Member
They all look fuzzy to me. Close up you can see mutilcolour pixels all over the place. They always seem to be low dpi too. Would never buy one.
RedAssedApe
Banned
That just sounds like plasma dithering and is inherent to the tech. Most people don't watch tv or play games 1-2 ft away from the screen though. You cannot see it at all from normal viewing distances.
If you're concerned about brightness because you'll be viewing in a room where you can't always control the lighting, check out the F8500 from Samsung.
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-pn51f8500/4505-6482_7-35731512.html
Yeah, i'd forgotten the word, but that's it. I can notice it from where i sit though, so it's not really for me. I'm waiting for OLED to happen.
RedAssedApe
Banned
Bummer. I went from a Sony XBR4 (top of the line lcd in 2007) to a Kuro 9G and the difference to me was like night and day when it comes to motion and black levels.
Hopefully large OLED screens are worth the wait. The only OLED I think I've seen is the Vita and its pretty nice.
oldtimegamer007
Banned
Your eyes do not deceive you.
Plasma's get a really good mention from lots of people on the internet.....who have no clue what the F they are talking about. I honestly think half the people who recommend Plasma TV's just like saying the word "plasma" . They had a small advantage like 10 years ago over LCD in one category that was quickly erased, the technology is so outdated and , quite frankly, shitty in comparison to every other modern choice I cannot imagine anyone wanting to buy one.
Seriously, WTF?
I have a new 50" Panasonic Plasma and it is amazing.
I'm tough to impress with TVs but the Panasonic Plasma did it for me. I'm not fooled by the horrible "dynamic" setting that retail stores use... The brightness/contrast burns my eyes out and the sharpness and the cool colour tones are just ugh.. Saddens me that people actually use such settings and prefer them. And it seems LCD/LED can push these settings harder, which makes people prefer them. Sucks.
A well calibrated LCD/LED can look awesome however, I don't doubt that at all.
The tiny input lag is also a huge selling point.
I'm tough to impress with TVs but the Panasonic Plasma did it for me. I'm not fooled by the horrible "dynamic" setting that retail stores use... The brightness/contrast burns my eyes out and the sharpness and the cool colour tones are just ugh.. Saddens me that people actually use such settings and prefer them. And it seems LCD/LED can push these settings harder, which makes people prefer them. Sucks.
A well calibrated LCD/LED can look awesome however, I don't doubt that at all.
The tiny input lag is also a huge selling point.
Speaking of people who have no clue what they're talking about...
Pretty much my stance as well, love my plasma but as soon as 46" OLED TV's are at a price I can afford I will be switching.
Mithos
Member
This is the biggest issue indeed, the ratio of calibrated displays is super tiny in real life. Not even my 2(?) year old 46" LCD is calibrated.
When they come already calibrated that's when we will get "Average Jane/Joe" to really know what is good or bad.
Fail.
I will keep my 720p Panasonic TC-P42X1 plasma until it dies. I had it for years, then looked up how to calibrate it in the service menu along with recommended settings and now it's even better. On top of looking nice, no lag.
actually, turns out I'm totally wrong-- I just like saying "plasma"
who knew!
actually, turns out I'm totally wrong-- I just like saying "plasma"
who knew!
Gillian Seed
Banned
Lmao!!!!
AnbaLeumas
Banned
Hey, guys. If I was looking to get a 32-inch TV, what would be the best one to get considering next-gen?
Your posting career is off to a good start.
Since Panasonic is leaving the market...will anyone other than Samsung sell good plasmas? I don't trust Samsung/LG build quality at all.
Of all the consumer purchase injustices of electronics, I think the LCD vs Plasma debacle may be among the worst. For years plasma's have offered superior picture quality and yet, consumers continue to pay more for top end LED/LCD TV's that offer less favourable IQ. It's quite something. I rang one store to enquire about the new 50" GT60 Panasonic Plasma just a couple of days ago, the one that received a "reference" grade rating from HDTvTest, a sub £1400 TV, yet there's the store salesman trying to sell me a lesser LED TV that costs £2000 which even he himself claimed was far more "popular"...
Good stuff. Look forward to seeing you in the comedy club. Until then, I'll subscribe to your blog.
I have a vizio 47 inch 3d smart led tv with a 480 hz. Works perfect for gaming but I did have to get the main board repaired as the 3d was off (but I thought it was just me) then my HDMI ports started to go out randomly. Once it was repaired (thank you extended warranty) there was a huge difference in 2d and 3d. This tv never had any lag and never ghosted either.
I also use a vizio 42 lcd 120 hz tv for the bedroom (when the wife wants to take over the living room tv) that also works well for gaming too. I have not had any problems with that tv but when it comes down to it I am happy gaming on each one but then again bright colors is not the selling point for me a long as there is no lag I am happy.
I also use a vizio 42 lcd 120 hz tv for the bedroom (when the wife wants to take over the living room tv) that also works well for gaming too. I have not had any problems with that tv but when it comes down to it I am happy gaming on each one but then again bright colors is not the selling point for me a long as there is no lag I am happy.
Xbone doesn't have analog video output. Good luck getting a CRT working with it.
That's not entirely true though. I have an HD RP-CRT from Hitachi's last year. It has an HDMI port (with HDCP). So did the previous year's models.
You should see the inside of it :lol. Every single mod you can do to a rear projector, I've done. Blackout cloth, lens striping, lens hood, jacking up the chasis to reduce overscan. I bought it thinking it'd be a year or two before things finally got out of the ghetto in TV land. OLED is the latest and greatest hope
I don't really use it that often, though, so it might last another decade at this pace.Its because of the image retention/burn in. I would love a plasma because of better IQ and off-viewing angles, but I fear IR/BI. And I am not going to "break-in" my $2K+ investment for hundreds of hours before I even think about using it. Now, I know people are going to say BI/IR is a thing of the past. However, several members of this very forum have complained about BI/IR on newer Panasonic models, and I even had a Panasonic sales rep tell me the problem will never go away because of how the phosphors work. He even recommended an LED TV for gaming over a plasma.
It's actually a lot simpler than that. WAF play a huge role in this. And for years, LCD has had super slim and sexy bezels.
You combine that with the psychology of humans preferring the brightest picture when comparing on a showfloor, and it's no secret how it happened.
Not that it's not a valid concern, but it's way down on the list of reasons it lost the war.
uncleniccius
Member
This is a slightly OT question but...
people always mention that game mode is bad on TV's. Is this true?
people always mention that game mode is bad on TV's. Is this true?
I know everyone is entitled to his own opinion but this is stretching the concept a little too far.
I find that the picture quality in game mode on my LED TV is not nearly as good when it is not in game mode. The picture has less contrast, is darker, and less vivid.
Game mode is simply disabling filters that require processing. Many times game mode, for example, will disable 120/240/480hz interpolation and run at 60hz. This isn't surprising. It'll reduce lag significantly on many sets. Why? Because interpolation requires the CPU see frame A and frame B, so it can then make up the imaginary data between frame A and B. All of this has to occur before frame A can be outputted. That takes time.
The whole 120/240/480hz thing is more than marketing. These sets need interpolation because LCD needs processing at 60hz input to eliminate motion blur and increase motion resolution. It's addressing a flaw with the tech.
This applies to all processing techniques. All are there to address flaws. All add lag to the process.
Interesting. My Panasonic ST50 is pretty much the complete opposite. It's almost too overblown with colors/brightness. Although I do agree the quality is definitely subpar.
I have a Panasonic VT50B from last year and I game pretty heavily so I can say that image retention is a small issue but I really don't think burn in is at all. I have had literally two instances of image retention that have lasted more that a few seconds.
First, the HUD from Dragon's Dogma was on there for a while. This was only visible against a white background and I think this was because the panel was still quite new. Now the life bars from Virtua Fighter: Final Showdown are faintly visible against a white background again. This is from heavy, heavy use of these games.
In both cases the IR fades over time but the kicker is you have to stop playing what was causing it until it fades away. Both games caused the IR because I was totally into them and playing them loads so having to stop playing them completely kind of sucks.
Anyhow the Dragon's Dogma stuff faded and I've been playing the sh*t out of Dark Arisen with no issues but Virtua Fighter is still a no go :-(.
So you have to manage this stuff but it's tiny and it's never permanent unless you do anything stupid like ignore it when it first shows up. I love my TV completely and would happily take this small compromise for all the positives it brings, including reference level picture quality.
Depends whether that is worth it to you.Will Plasma's ever fix or reduce the burn-in issue? Only thing stopping me, I'm not home much so can't stop family and such from keeping to the 200hr break-in period. Currently use a 48' LCD HDTV and a smaller 24' HDTV for personal gaming sometimes.
Its just that waiting 200hrs to break it in just sounds arduous and impractical. Does reducing contrast and brightness settings work?
Its just that waiting 200hrs to break it in just sounds arduous and impractical. Does reducing contrast and brightness settings work?
Monty Mole
Member
Last year's models were very prone to IR for some reason, I had similar issues with my GT50 even though it always faded quickly. But I have a VT60 now and I've seen no IR at all, and I've been caning God of War Ascension and Peggle on it.I have a Panasonic VT50B from last year and I game pretty heavily so I can say that image retention is a small issue but I really don't think burn in is at all. I have had literally two instances of image retention that have lasted more that a few seconds.
First, the HUD from Dragon's Dogma was on there for a while. This was only visible against a white background and I think this was because the panel was still quite new. Now the life bars from Virtua Fighter: Final Showdown are faintly visible against a white background again. This is from heavy, heavy use of these games.
In both cases the IR fades over time but the kicker is you have to stop playing what was causing it until it fades away. Both games caused the IR because I was totally into them and playing them loads so having to stop playing them completely kind of sucks.
Anyhow the Dragon's Dogma stuff faded and I've been playing the sh*t out of Dark Arisen with no issues but Virtua Fighter is still a no go :-(.
So you have to manage this stuff but it's tiny and it's never permanent unless you do anything stupid like ignore it when it first shows up. I love my TV completely and would happily take this small compromise for all the positives it brings, including reference level picture quality.
Massive improvement in IR, uniformity, brightness and image quality over last year's models and well worth the upgrade for me.
I sold my 46'' Samsung D8000 (LED) just few weeks back and placed an order on the 60'' Panasonic ZT60. It won't be here until 21st, but it ought to be worth the wait and the penny.
I got 880 for that 'old' TV. I think I did pretty well, considering I got it for ~1600 two years back. The ZT will be my very first plasma, too so I'm not 100% sure what to expect.
I got 880 for that 'old' TV. I think I did pretty well, considering I got it for ~1600 two years back. The ZT will be my very first plasma, too so I'm not 100% sure what to expect.
Eh, don't tell me that. The last thing I need is any more reasons to be lusting after the ZT60...
FlexMentallo
Member
Does anyone know if those new Sony's 800s & 900s are going to come in sizes larger than 55"? I'm guessing no from what is on the Sony website.
I am looking into upgrading my Samsung un55b8500, which has a great picture with the local dimming but has pretty terrible input lag even with everything turned off.
I have been considering a VT60 or ZT60 65", but these new Sony's have me intrigued with those latency numbers. I also have pretty variable lighting in my living room, and plasma has me worried there.
However, I'd like a size upgrade as well as PQ and input lag improvements if I am going to fork out the cash for a new set.
I am looking into upgrading my Samsung un55b8500, which has a great picture with the local dimming but has pretty terrible input lag even with everything turned off.
I have been considering a VT60 or ZT60 65", but these new Sony's have me intrigued with those latency numbers. I also have pretty variable lighting in my living room, and plasma has me worried there.
However, I'd like a size upgrade as well as PQ and input lag improvements if I am going to fork out the cash for a new set.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
BruiserBear
Banned
Don't let anyone tell you burn in is not a concern on plasmas. It is, and if you play certain games a lot, you will have a problem.
Plasmas are not perfect, and I immediately noticed phosphor lag, which annoyed the hell out of me. Plasmas are certainly the best TVs for movie viewing in darker rooms. For everything else, I'll take an LCD with low input lag.
Plasmas are not perfect, and I immediately noticed phosphor lag, which annoyed the hell out of me. Plasmas are certainly the best TVs for movie viewing in darker rooms. For everything else, I'll take an LCD with low input lag.
velociraptor
Junior Member
What a beastly TV. I currently have a Samsung but it's input lag is 40ms according to HDTV review, and that is via the high-spec camera method. Perhaps this Sony will be the next TV that I will look to buy.
I haven't had any permanent burn-in on about 4500 hours on my panny plasma. I play 4:3 stuff all the time, games with static huds, leave it paused for a long time, etc.
I get some image retention after gaming, particularly the edges of a 4:3 box, but one pass with the white scrolling bar takes care of it.
Is permanent burn-in something I need to be concerned about? I thought I read somewhere that burn-in hasn't been an issue in a long time.
I get some image retention after gaming, particularly the edges of a 4:3 box, but one pass with the white scrolling bar takes care of it.
Is permanent burn-in something I need to be concerned about? I thought I read somewhere that burn-in hasn't been an issue in a long time.