LunaticPuma
dresses business casual
I laughed when the little kids in Halo 2 would say that super-bouncing and BXB glitch were legit because "Bungie put them in the game." :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
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"Play the game the way it's meant to be played". WTF?
- Thread starter Holy Order Sol
- Start date
RockmanWhore
Member
Sometime playing the game "the way it's meant to be played" can fuck the experience. Shitty trophies/success are a good example of that.
DidntKnowJack
Member
I've only come across something like this once. And it was I who kept saying, "You're doing it wrong," albeit in a somewhat joking manner.
A friend of mine was playing Borderlands and he's the kind of guy who has to explore EVERYTHING. Which is fine, but he kept getting himself stuck. Literally stuck in the world, under a bridge, what have you. Which is normal, it happens all the time, but he just kept getting stuck over and over again. So I'm trying to tell him what the limitations of the game are, and where the places are he needent bother checking because you can often tell. You just know, especially after years and years of gaming and awareness of basic level design. But he kept doing it, getting stuck in these stupid places when I knew the devs didn't put any loot there.
But that's the only time anything like this ever happened with me. Or to me.
A friend of mine was playing Borderlands and he's the kind of guy who has to explore EVERYTHING. Which is fine, but he kept getting himself stuck. Literally stuck in the world, under a bridge, what have you. Which is normal, it happens all the time, but he just kept getting stuck over and over again. So I'm trying to tell him what the limitations of the game are, and where the places are he needent bother checking because you can often tell. You just know, especially after years and years of gaming and awareness of basic level design. But he kept doing it, getting stuck in these stupid places when I knew the devs didn't put any loot there.
But that's the only time anything like this ever happened with me. Or to me.
Holly shit I did not know that. I need to buy that game again replay it.elcapitan said:
That was one of the reasons why I disliked that game. I just took a more aggressive approach when playing and a lot of running. I even cleared the the hard difficulty setting. No w8 nvm I forgot the reason I really hated it the most was the added micro managing was eh, why Kojima why?
SuperAngelo64
Banned
MELEE
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
in skate 2, i ran around harassing people by jumping on them more than actually skating.
they should have developed that aspect of the game more than the skateboarding.
they should have developed that aspect of the game more than the skateboarding.
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
Yeah pretty much. Wait I'm some sort of awful person because I want to use items and play on an interesting level?SuperAngelo64 said:
The multiplayer of Jedi Knight 2 is a pretty good example of a case where people started playing the game by their own rules and not the game rules. In the end, it seems the guys with the servers supported this so that became the de facto standard but from time to time someone would come around and talk about people should be "playing the game the way it was meant to be played". I can kind of see where they were coming form though, I mean if you play on an FFA server you don't really expect to be kicked for "laming" when you kill another guy.
In some versions of DOOM nightmare brings up a yes/no prompt that says something like "this mode is not even remotely fair, are you sure?" In Quake Nightmare was fairly hidden. In Quake 2 it was only available through the console.Pete Rock said:
Somewhat at id was spending all of their time playing these games so they were probably quite skewed at the difficulty curve. They also may have decided that run like hell was the proper way to play but on Ultra Violence the player could stay pretty safe going slow.
Playing the game "how it's intended" as a strict rule is absurd. Emergent gameplay's been so much fun; we've gotten combos in fighters, playing shmups for score, ninja tanking in FFXI, frost wolf grinding in FFI, Redeemer races in UT, even world 1-2 in Mario.
That said, in all of those cases the original intended gameplay really should be experienced. Beyond its own quality, talking about the game or playing with other people that haven't done these things is pointless if you don't have the original common ground.
There's also the related question of playing a game well in some fashion, whether or not it's the intended one. All those examples fulfill it in a way that cheesing Vita-Chambers, throwing nothing but Hail Marys, or naming your characters Fight and Heal and then grinding for ten hours don't. The idea that a game needs to cater to people who won't or absolutely can't play it well--as opposed to people who play it as well as they can, a niche well-served by the Super Guide--is an absurdity born of this era where the idea of a genre is rapidly fading and almost every publisher demands both a gripping narrative and hardcore twitch gameplay.
That said, in all of those cases the original intended gameplay really should be experienced. Beyond its own quality, talking about the game or playing with other people that haven't done these things is pointless if you don't have the original common ground.
There's also the related question of playing a game well in some fashion, whether or not it's the intended one. All those examples fulfill it in a way that cheesing Vita-Chambers, throwing nothing but Hail Marys, or naming your characters Fight and Heal and then grinding for ten hours don't. The idea that a game needs to cater to people who won't or absolutely can't play it well--as opposed to people who play it as well as they can, a niche well-served by the Super Guide--is an absurdity born of this era where the idea of a genre is rapidly fading and almost every publisher demands both a gripping narrative and hardcore twitch gameplay.
depths20XX
Member
People/Reviewers who burn credit after credit in a shoot 'em up, finish the game in 15 minutes, and then say "derp, this game is too short/easy". Definetly not playing it right.
Monroeski said:
The Smash Bros. games. The thread in question was the using a tatsunoko vs capcom arcade stick to play brawl.
Lazy vs Crazy said:
Where did you get the impression that people thought like this? I played melee "Incorrectly" in the tournament scene for quite some time, and I never knew anyone who went door to door to make sure everyone in their neighborhood played with items off and only on certain levels. Worst case scenario, you might run into some 13 year olds online who would tell you that you were stupid for playing a certain way, but if you're going to let them represent an entire group for you, well, damn.
HylianScribe
Member
Cowie said:
I did a playthrough of RE 5 on Xbox 360 using the Madcatz SF IV CE arcade stick.
I also hold my controller differently for any game that doesn't use a right analog stick.
Instead of this:
I rotate my right hand so my thumb is under the controller, and my four fingers are free to hit buttons. Also hold the Wii Remote upside down for shooters. People tell me that's not the way to hold the controller and play the game correctly.
Most of the time I hear "the way it's meant to be played" coming from developers, when they get annoyed when I don't play through a demo how they want.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
Any game that you can play 'incorrectly' is a badly designed piece of software.
LittleTokyo
Member
jeremy1456 said:
This, and MW2 comes to mind immediately. Although maybe IW envisioned all the glitches and thought it would be fun for the players to find them all?
Lostconfused
Member
That statement is absurd. If you have to hit a single button the game can be played incorrectly and even if you don't its always possible that you might do something wrong.jeremy1456 said:
If a developer wants you to play the game a certain way, they should reward you for doing so and punish you for not doing so, or just make it impossible to play it any other way.
If it's someone who who had no hand in the making of the game telling you that, then why do they care? As long as you're having fun, it shouldn't matter.
If it's someone who who had no hand in the making of the game telling you that, then why do they care? As long as you're having fun, it shouldn't matter.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
Lostconfused said:
What you're saying is that if you die in a game then you're playing it incorrectly?
:lol
I'm referring to exploits, glitches, and using cheat devices.
Lostconfused
Member
Almost every game is subject to those. I am saying that every game can be played incorrectly.jeremy1456 said:
Edit: Ok I am wrong on that last bit so I edited it out.
I hate it when people complain to me that I don't play the game "right." This always happens happens when I'm playing any of the GTA games with a certain friend of mine, as I rarely only do the missions (only to open up more of the city), I just like to drive around and cause as much chaos as I can and drive down the sidewalk hitting people like a madman (the only fun part of GTA4). This always causes my friend to tell me to "stop messing around" and "play the game the right way."
Also, when a game isn't trying to be a realistic simulator, then to hell with realism.
Also, when a game isn't trying to be a realistic simulator, then to hell with realism.
WTF? Isn't this exactly what the OP is talking about? If you're not willing to learn a technique that would decrease your time, which is the whole point of racing, then I think you need to get out of competitive online. You say that they're not playing for fun but maybe their fun actually comes from winning? I don't think it's right that you're calling them assholes when all they're doing is playing how they want to play, same as you. Now that I think about it, if you only want to play for fun then why the hell are you so concerned about winning or losing? You're not being forced to do anything here.Chatin said:
The smash community is also pretty shitty. Both the competitive and non-competitive sides have elitists on them telling the other side the proper way to play.
Keavy_Rain
Member
GTA IV is the first game in which I didn't play in the manner you describe. I attribute that to the connection I formed with Nico as a person. I really wanted to play through his story, see where it went, and I wanted that conclusion. Screwing around was the last thing I wanted to do, especially when I could go on a man-date with Dwayne.R-111 said:
Speaking of Dwayne, I seriously felt bad for the guy and did all I could to maintain a good relationship with him. Like, if I was on my way to do something and he called, I would drop everything to spend time with him. In many ways, I honestly felt like I was the only real friend he had and saying no to him hurt me emotionally.
None of the previous 3D GTA characters had the same effect on me and I loved GTA IV for that. Sadly, the DLC hasn't had that effect on me because the characters in those games feel like the previous GTA characters.
If GTA V has another Nico-like character, I will love it as much as I loved IV.
Holy Order Sol
Member
Chatin said:
Well they either find an agreement or don't bother to play with each other. Instead of arguing, one can still play with someone else. Nintendo's fucked up online implementation doesn't help though, I'll give you that, but there are ways around it.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Metagames don't really change how you play a game though. If you want to slog through agonizing busywork, (like say, Minish Cap's figurine collection) that's your call.EvilMario said:
Using a strategy guide, not playing the game on the hardest difficulty, using exploits etc tend to be more of the "You're not playing the game the way it was meant to be played!!!" hogwashery.
The fun of a game like Mario Kart is being in the pack and tossing items at each other. Online isn't just about leader boards and a hardcore competitive community, it's about the ability to play with others and not have to be in the same room. So when I go online, and I end up in a match with a bunch of snakers, there's a huge gap between the snakers and the other players, and fun = eliminated. Everyone can enjoy Mario Kart without snaking. We did before MKDS. Only a fraction of gamers can enjoy it with snaking. And that is why I don't think it's irrational for casual (or just non-hardcare) gamers to be frustrated when a game is being played outside of the manner intended by the developer.hamchan said:
Not that it's wrong to find new ways to enjoy a game, but in some cases it should be judged whether it's appropriate, or if it is going to be detrimental to the online experience of the other players. If you're the only one snaking on a course, you might as well be playing Time Trial.
Chatin said:
Games like Mario Kart are an interesting topic for this discussion. On the one hand, the game is, ultimately, competitive. Adding all sorts of crazy items has a certain leveling effect on the playing field, but in the same sense you don't throw a blue shell because you want everybody to tie for 1st place and go home holding hands. People finding ways to be better, faster, more efficient, whatever, is to be expected -- but the nature of the game suggests that there will be people who want to just play casually, and still stand a chance of winning by luck. I think that nintendo's fucking archaic online structure is partially to blame here. At least two separate justifiable playstyles exist, and there's really no way to keep them apart, outside of organizing friend code bullshit online somewhere.
That can be a valid statement. First example that comes to mind would be Left4dead. I didnt really start enjoying that game until we started playing on expert. Game is damn near boring on Normal. You breeze through and think "...thats it?"
Coincidentally, Left4Dead2 is near unplayable on expert. I dont what the hell they were thinking with that one.
Coincidentally, Left4Dead2 is near unplayable on expert. I dont what the hell they were thinking with that one.
Little Green Yoda
Member
selig said:
I feel like most developers don't want to risk alienating its more casual audience by naming a difficulty level "easy" much less "super easy". From my experience, I see more modifiers in difficulty levels above "normal" than below "normal". More often than not, "normal" is the easiest setting. Couple that with the overall trend of games getting easier and I think my point has some merit.
After I taught my brother how to play Worms Armageddon, he forsook every weapon EXCEPT the grenade. He sucked with it, too. He lost every game, because he wanted to master the grenade. After he lost enough times, he lost interest.
He did not play the game the way it's meant to be played.
He did not play the game the way it's meant to be played.
The wording is mostly the problem IMO. It would also be made much worse if you weren't told at the start that part of the puzzle was using all the elements. But having it so you have to use all the elements is a valid move in a puzzle game as long as you are told at the start you have to.Boonoo said:
Also, if a developer really wants to state a certain difficulty is how they intended to the game to be played, and its not normal, call it "Original"
Sure, you will have some people complain that "If this is the first time the game has been out, why are normal and orignal not the same" and blah blah blah.
Sometimes the term is applicable. The guy who did not know he could level his characters in Mass Effect is an example.
Then you have the examples where people are playing the game in a way that they can advance through it, but they are hating on the game because it is not fun because of the way they are playing it. A lot of people who complain about Halo for example tend to try and play it like a run and gun shooter which would make for a terrible experience, but it is a great experience for many if you play it closer to the developers intent.
The same with Dragon Age. If you play it like a Diablo hack and slash loot game, skip the story, and skip the exploration and then complain that it is not fun then you are not going to get a lot of sympathy.
Now if someone is playing GTA and just having fun running over and killing everyone they see, and having a grand old time, then I would not consider those people to be playing the game wrong. It is those that complain about a game sucking while not attempting to understand the mechanics of the game that bug me. If you play Ninja Gaiden, and find it generally not fun then you have an argument. If you play Ninja Gaiden and then complain that it does not play like God of War, well you are an idiot.
Then you have the examples where people are playing the game in a way that they can advance through it, but they are hating on the game because it is not fun because of the way they are playing it. A lot of people who complain about Halo for example tend to try and play it like a run and gun shooter which would make for a terrible experience, but it is a great experience for many if you play it closer to the developers intent.
The same with Dragon Age. If you play it like a Diablo hack and slash loot game, skip the story, and skip the exploration and then complain that it is not fun then you are not going to get a lot of sympathy.
Now if someone is playing GTA and just having fun running over and killing everyone they see, and having a grand old time, then I would not consider those people to be playing the game wrong. It is those that complain about a game sucking while not attempting to understand the mechanics of the game that bug me. If you play Ninja Gaiden, and find it generally not fun then you have an argument. If you play Ninja Gaiden and then complain that it does not play like God of War, well you are an idiot.
Holy Order Sol said:
1) Sometimes developer's intent is fairly easy to determine -- exploiting a silly glitch which bypasses an entire game may very well go against the design of the game and the gaming experience.
This is probably why high score contests often have specific rules about why certain things are either allowed or disallowed.
2) I think this really only becomes an issue when you play with other people. Playing in ways which makes the basic game experience dull or annoying would seem to be playing the game the wrong way, as folks are no longer having fun.
(Example: Smash Bros. without items... which reminds me, I need to run another Items Brawl tournament!)
disappeared
Banned
There is no right or wrong way to play any game. You're simply playing it from the perspective you know, and not any you don't. Once you realize that falling into a pit results in death, you probably won't do it anymore, and thus you make progress. But until you figure that shit out the game mayeswell be called "You Fall Into Pits and Die." With your own discovery of the game coupled with talk amongst friends and the like, you soon see different ways of playing the game. So "developer's intent" is a bullshit term from the start because it's simply one small, collective opinion on the game and its mechanics.