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Played Wipeout HD in 3D today, but...

M

Monty Mole

Member
So, at The Gadget Show Live today I was lucky enough to play Wipeout HD in 3D. I absolutely love the game, so I was pretty excited as you can imagine.

The good news

As expected with any game in 3D, it's in perfect 3D. If you've used Nvidia's solution, you'll know what to expect. Sony's 3DTV worked perfectly.

The bad news

No, not just the cliched having to wear glasses. But 30fps. Yes, thirty fucking frames per second. This isn't the Wipeout HD I love. 3D or not.

Conclusion

One step forward, two steps back. I understand why 3D theoretically takes twice the graphics processing power, but in cases like this, I really wonder what the point is. I'd take 60fps 2D Wipeout HD over 30fps 3D Wipeout HD (with 30% colour reduction)... any day.

3D gaming? Not quite the future just yet IMO. On existing consoles it is simply going to mean 3D at the expense of graphics or framerate degradation: I'm not signing up for that.

EDIT: Apologies if this sounds a little bloggy. I'll stop ranting now o_O
 
Should have played SSDHD :( They managed to get that thing be 60FPS even in 3D @ 720p. But yeah, that's going to be a very valid problem in general.
 
Fair enough.

A lot will obviously depend on the game of course. Some software may have a huge fillip from having 3D and not be as graphically demanding as WO. Unfortunately I can't think of any at the moment.

Was there any other 3D software on show?
 
cheers for the impressions. Yeah, 30fps wipeout is a bit of a downer, but im sure that the fact that it's in 3D makes up for it :D
 
V_Ben said:
cheers for the impressions. Yeah, 30fps wipeout is a bit of a downer, but im sure that the fact that it's in 3D makes up for it :D
Click to expand...
No, it really doesn't. That's my point. Like Avatar, you forget about the 3D after a while and realise what else is missing.

In this case it was after 60 seconds. WHERE IS MY 60FPS :(
 
Monty Mole said:
No, it really doesn't. That's my point. Like Avatar, you forget about the 3D after a while and realise what else is missing.

In this case it was after 60 seconds. WHERE IS MY 60FPS :(
Click to expand...

fair enough :D
 
Willy105 said:
Seriously?

Racing games are the most obvious ones for best 3D candidacy.
Click to expand...
Especially WipEout HD.

30 fps is a bit of a downer, but I still want to try this. Did they add motion blur?
 
Yeah WipEout HD.

Have you played ZONE mode? :D

Monty Mole said:
... But 30fps. Yes, thirty fucking frames per second. This isn't the Wipeout HD I love. 3D or not.
Click to expand...
Was it still 1080p? I'm questioned whether it can be made running in
720p@120fps. Don't know. But HALOp should do the job. Anyway, without 60fps
the game is virtually unplayable. One needs this resolution in time because the
rate of change of position is pretty high at Phantom speed and in ZONE mode.

Over at WOZ we always speculated that the game would properly suffer from
a drastic decrease in quality, since the game already runs near the limits of
what the PS3 has to offer. Never forget, WipEout HD delivers on the promise
of the PS3; 1080p@60fps in all its glory! That's the game!
 
I'd like to try WO in 3D. I don't think I'm particularly sensitive to framerate (unless it's freezing!) so... hmmm.

There are a whole load of games playable in 30fps of course so all hope is not gone.

And yeah I know GAF bitches about 3D tv but whatever.
 
The fact that some of the most popular games released in the last few years are not even in true HD, the news about the frame reduction is not surprising.

I still haven't had the pleasure of seeing anything in person yet. But overall, it sounds like initial impressions leave most people walking away wanting more. I don't know if that's good or bad.
 
Stupid question incoming:

If Wipeout HD, which normally is a 60fps game, runs at 30fps in 3D what happens to games that are already capped at 30fps in 2D?
 
DarkUSS said:
Stupid question incoming:

If Wipeout HD, which normally is a 60fps game, runs at 30fps in 3D what happens to games that are already capped at 30fps in 2D?
Click to expand...
I think Sony's only shown 60 fps games in 3d so far: GT5, MLB, Wipeout...I'm kind of afraid of 15 FPS games.

And just think....you know KZ3 will be in 3D. What will that do to how the game looks? :\
 
kenta said:
When all is said and done, this shift to 3D will be regarded as a huge mistake
Click to expand...
I dunno about that, but besides the high cost to consumers who want to watch and play in the various non-standardized, still unrefined forms of 3D, there's the ultimate question of quantity of content and quality of 3D implementation. Two big questions on top of high prices doesn't work out so well for any expectation of fast uptake. 3D is going to take much longer than HD took to get to half-penetration of just the NA market because of the cost and work involved to bring content up to that point. Certainly, the remaining duration of the current console gen is too short to expect any decent impact on gaming or films. Maybe in five or more years this will be closer to a common and worthy endeavor, but considering the cost, the fact that a large percentage of the populace can't see or won't tolerate long-periods of 3D viewing, this thing's going uphill for some years. Do many of the same people who have been bitching about lack of HD and good framerates really want to sacrifice what little consistency and high achievement in those areas there already is on consoles currently to utilize a questionable optical effect that will most definitely negatively impact them? I don't see it. Not on this gen's hardware.
 
DarkUSS said:
Stupid question incoming:

If Wipeout HD, which normally is a 60fps game, runs at 30fps in 3D what happens to games that are already capped at 30fps in 2D?
Click to expand...
Maybe they won't do that because we haven't see any 3D demo on 30fps gaming. So far we have Wipeout HD, Super Stardust HD and Gran Turismo 5 Prologue.
 
Isn't the crucial point the refresh rate and not the framerate in 3d gaming?

I mean, you need to render and display two alternate images, but it's the refresh rate that ultimately gives the stereoscopic illusion.

So every second we get 30/60 frames at a refresh rate of 120hz instead of 30/60 frames per second @ 50/60hz.

The problem with games is that those images need to be rendered real time, therefore the performances are lowered.

Did I get anything wrong?
 
The Wipeout HD 3D isn't particularly new, it just hasn't been revealed to the general gaming media. They had Wipeout and Motorstorm Pacific Rift in 3D set up during GDC 2009. Motorstorm was particularly impressive because of the foliage. The leaves and whatnot flying past your face was pretty incredible.

Monty Mole said:
No, it really doesn't. That's my point. Like Avatar, you forget about the 3D after a while and realise what else is missing.

In this case it was after 60 seconds. WHERE IS MY 60FPS :(
Click to expand...

I can't say I had the same experience with Avatar. The moment I "forgot" about the 3D was when I was finally fully immersed with the movie. It was like you were right there as a spectator in that universe. :lol
 
Defcon said:
Neither can I.
Click to expand...
what about the other, is there anyone else who cant see the 3d effect, i tried it at best buy which is admittedly not the best showcase, but all i saw was a slightly blurry picture. i can easily tell the difference between 30-60fps though, i guess im just a weird case
 
KamenSenshi said:
what about the other, is there anyone else who cant see the 3d effect, i tried it at best buy which is admittedly not the best showcase, but all i saw was a slightly blurry picture. i can easily tell the difference between 30-60fps though, i guess im just a weird case
Click to expand...


You have put the 3d glasses on.
 
iceatcs said:
Maybe they won't do that because we haven't see any 3D demo on 30fps gaming. So far we have Wipeout HD, Super Stardust HD and Gran Turismo 5 Prologue.
Click to expand...

MotorStorm: Pacific Rift was shown in 3D. Guessing it was possible since they already had a split screen mode. Any game that has split screen should be able to run 3D pretty well. Of course you'd only be getting half the resolution.
 
missile said:
Precision.
Click to expand...
I figure you're adding about 17 milliseconds of (visual) lag when you go from 60 to 30. It's pretty insignificant when you start adding up reaction time, game processing time and monitor lag.

It's makes a huge visual impact though. It doesn't look nearly as smooth and realistic.
 
I have no idea how you cant tell the difference between 30 fps and 60fps. Look at Soul Edge then look at Soul Calibur (60), Sonic Adventure 1 then Sonic Adventure 2(60), Halo then look at Timesplitters 2(60), Virtua Fighter 1 then Virtua Fighter 2. Its very easy to tell for the most part.

Not that i'm bothered by either as long as it's smooth...maybe its the same as being color blind?
 
I'm not surprised, and you know it's also probably a really unoptimized build. Anyway, two-player mode in Wipeout HD also runs at 30fps and yep, it's not pretty.

Y2Kev said:
I think Sony's only shown 60 fps games in 3d so far: GT5, MLB, Wipeout...I'm kind of afraid of 15 FPS games.

And just think....you know KZ3 will be in 3D. What will that do to how the game looks? :\
Click to expand...

They've also shown Motorstorm, if it was 15fps I think even game writers would notice. :P
 
I saw Wipeout in 3d recently and I have to say that I didn't notice much of a 3d effect. I suspect that there may be something with my eyes that prevent me from experiencing the full effect. The people around me seemed very impressed...
 
SapientWolf said:
I figure you're adding about 17 milliseconds of (visual) lag when you go from 60 to 30. It's pretty insignificant when you start adding up reaction time, game processing time and monitor lag.
Click to expand...
:lol No! Seems like you've never played WipEout HD.

At all those who can't tell the difference between 60 and 30fps, just play
WipEout HD at Phantom speed a few laps and then switch over to split
screen (30fps). If you can't tell the difference then you're brain lags
behind pretty hard. :lol The difference becomes even more pronounced
if you play WipEout HD at competitive level.
 
yeah, glasses could help, except that they didnt. i had more luck taking them off and crossing my eyes like one of those stereo pics
 
V_Ben said:
cheers for the impressions. Yeah, 30fps wipeout is a bit of a downer, but im sure that the fact that it's in 3D makes up for it :D
Click to expand...

To each their own, but there is no way I'd sacrifice 60fps for 3D. ESPECIALLY since it is a racing game.

As far as 30fps compared to 60fps goes, I can GUARANTEE you will notice the difference if you have been playing Wipeout HD as it is now on the PSN then playing it at 30fps in 3D. In my opinion, the number one priority for racing game developers should be 60fps.
 
Monty Mole said:
So, at The Gadget Show Live today I was lucky enough to play Wipeout HD in 3D. I absolutely love the game, so I was pretty excited as you can imagine.

The good news

As expected with any game in 3D, it's in perfect 3D. If you've used Nvidia's solution, you'll know what to expect. Sony's 3DTV worked perfectly.

The bad news

No, not just the cliched having to wear glasses. But 30fps. Yes, thirty fucking frames per second. This isn't the Wipeout HD I love. 3D or not.

Conclusion

One step forward, two steps back. I understand why 3D theoretically takes twice the graphics processing power, but in cases like this, I really wonder what the point is. I'd take 60fps 2D Wipeout HD over 30fps 3D Wipeout HD (with 30% colour reduction)... any day.

3D gaming? Not quite the future just yet IMO. On existing consoles it is simply going to mean 3D at the expense of graphics or framerate degradation: I'm not signing up for that.

EDIT: Apologies if this sounds a little bloggy. I'll stop ranting now o_O
Click to expand...


The bad news is some pretty fucking bad news. I'm of the mind that thinks graphics don't need to get better or 3Disher. Give me solid framerates and controls.

I'm not loving this direction that Sony is moving towards.
 
KamenSenshi said:
yeah, glasses could help, except that they didnt. i had more luck taking them off and crossing my eyes like one of those stereo pics
Click to expand...
sounds like the battery had run dry on the glasses.
 
i hope thats just it, i saw people walk away from there with no complaint,but they didnt stay long either. i would be curious to see what this looks like
 
I'm still amazed when people say that they can't tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps. Play a 60fps for about 20 minutes, then a 30fps game. For best effect, make sure it's the same genre if possible. Stands out like night and day.
 
Personally, I think that the 3-D stuff is pretty cool, but showing WipEout HD in
30fps harms the game quite a lot. But we can hope for a patch (can we?) that
will enable 60fps in 3-D at a given resolution with some decrease in the amount
of detail. That should be possible. The current presentation is just a quick 'n
dirty solution to actually show the effect.
 
Did you honestly expect Wipeout HD to play in 3D at 60FPS in 1080p?

Next gen my friend.

60FPS Wipeout is glorious, but previous versions and the PSP version run at 30FPS and look good and play fine.
 
KamenSenshi said:
is there anyone else who cant see the 3d effect, i tried it at best buy which is admittedly not the best showcase, but all i saw was a slightly blurry picture.
Click to expand...

:lol :lol

The glasses man, the glasses...
 
I've happened upon discussions on AVS about this first batch of 3D TV's potentially not even supporting 1080p 120fps (i.e. 1080p 60 per eye). The necessary HDMI hardware or whatever supposedly don't even exist yet. So basically it's like those first gen "1080p TV's" that didn't actually have 1080p inputs. We all know if this catches on 1080p 60x2 content is going to be common place in games next-gen
 
I'm scared of the day I pick up a pair of S3D glasses to go along with my 120Hz monitor. 60fps has become almost unbearable to me, so 3D better be the shit if I'm going back to the 60fps ghetto.
 
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