Support NeoGAF

[Superblatt]

Since there are clearly TWO discussions going on in the CFW discussion thread, and it seems I have support in that thread's OT, it only makes sense to create this topic.

If you have interest in discussing the hypothetical what if scenarios around Sony's ability to BAN PS3's running CFW, then consider this your home.

If you have interest in discussing the actual advantages, options, and how-to's on PS3 and CFW, head over to that thread's OT.

If I've upset the mods, I apologize in advance. It just became really obvious this was needed.

 

[DasRaven]

If they have the ability to ban the account, great. Less cheaters on my preferred network.
If they have the ability to poison pill/brick the console, even better. Offline, anything goes.

 

[Joel Was Right]

What do people mean by "cheating" on online multiplayer in this context? It's not like people will all of a sudden be able to use auto aim mods on shooters is it

 

[-viper-]

I hope they have the ability to ban the console.

Opening the PS3 up opens up a whole can of worms.

I support the notion of custom firmware but pirates + hacks are going to run amok and banning the console seems like the best option. That way whoever wants the CFW for the homebrew can only use it for homebrew.

I'd probably buy a second PS3 once they unlock NTFS and MKV support though, just for CFW usage.

 

[Superblatt]

What do people mean by "cheating" on online multiplayer in this context? It's not like people will all of a sudden be able to use auto aim mods on shooters is it

I'm pretty sure the assumption is that ISO loaders will lead to altered ISOs, which leads to cheating.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

Thank God for the new thread.

smh at those actually wanting a ban. You are aware that a) us GAF members who use CFW for legit purposes also get shafted and b) we have paid to use content that we will then be denied access to. Think about it for a second beyond just "piracy derp".

 

[Jocchan]

What do people mean by "cheating" on online multiplayer in this context? It's not like people will all of a sudden be able to use auto aim mods on shooters is it

Mods for shooters have been a reality on PSN for a few months.

 

[minimoke]

Are we even sure that Sony can detect that a PS3 is running CFW? Maybe we're jumping the gun a bit with this thread?

 

[Pandaman]

Thank God for the new thread.

smh at those actually wanting a ban. You are aware that a) us GAF members who use CFW for legit purposes also get shafted and b) we have paid to use content that we will then be denied access to. Think about it for a second beyond just "piracy derp".

sacrificing that content is a decision you made when you opted into custom firmware, you have no one else to blame and it is in everyone elses interest to have as secure a network as possible.

 

[SirButterstick]

That's kind of fucked up (and not to mention authoritarian) to hope that they can "brick" peoples consoles. Banning, sure that's fine, but you want to basically cut off all forms of homebrew?

I don't use my Playstation 3 at all, but this jailbreaking development finally gives me a reason to use it as a MAME station, which I'm really excited about.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

sacrificing that content is a decision you made when you opted into custom firmware, you have no one else to blame and it is in everyone elses interest to have as secure a network as possible.

Well this should be an interesting thread.

 

[AkuMifune]

I should say first that I think this CFW opens up all kinds of exciting and legit options for this awesome console, but if people do start using it to cheat for trophies or cheat online, I'm all for banning consoles...even mine.

I shouldn't have done it, but I couldn't help myself. It was just too cool to get in on. I did notice for the first time ever all my friends were offline.:lol I guess other people are afraid to go online.

I'm going to stay connected to PSN with CFW and just keep my fingers crossed. I can't be bothered to care, really. If they do eventually ban my account, I'll just start another. I doubt they'll ever go to the extreme of banning consoles, but if they do I'll just consider us even. Besides, the only thing they would be doing is banning me from buying more PSN content.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Thank God for the new thread.

smh at those actually wanting a ban. You are aware that a) us GAF members who use CFW for legit purposes also get shafted and b) we have paid to use content that we will then be denied access to. Think about it for a second beyond just "piracy derp".

"Legit purposes"? Says who. You're still operating the machine beyond its designed intentions. If you're in an apartment building and someone modifies their oven for legit purposes, you'd still be fearing a fire, no?

 

[cacildo]

Cant they jus ban the ones who cheat?

I dont have any plans on cheating, cant see the point on that.

But im eager to install my games into the HDD, just because i hate having the disc spinning the whole time.

So i want to play online, with my legal games, no cheating.... and i should be banned for that?


(and no, im not buying a new PS3.)

 

[SirButterstick]

LOL but it's a game system, not an object that runs on natural gas and, well, creates fire.

Modding your PS3 to play Pac Man = burning down an apartment building with everyone in it. Got ya.

 

[railGUN]

I think the more accounts Sony bans, the more people there will be working towards a way to avoid that ban. They can't not ban cheaters, but I think if they ban anyone who is running homebrew, it could blow up in their face.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

sacrificing that content is a decision you made when you opted into custom firmware, you have no one else to blame and it is in everyone elses interest to have as secure a network as possible.

I made no such decision. Perhaps I made the decision that I may not be able to go on PSN again, but I certainly did not make the decision to ditch all of the software I own. Narrow minded attitudes like that are what makes piracy fester.

And secure network? As far as i'm aware I have not hacked PSN, cheated in any way nor swindled anyone out of any experience they are entitled to. In fact, I am offline, disconnected from that network entirely. I just want to make sure that, at the very least, my content can still be accessed.

"Legit purposes"? Says who. You're still operating the machine beyond its designed intentions. If you're in an apartment building and someone modifies their oven for legit purposes, you'd still be fearing a fire, no?

It's not illegal, i'm not harming others experiences, i'm expanding the usability of my device - so I don't care.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

sacrificing that content is a decision you made when you opted into custom firmware, you have no one else to blame and it is in everyone elses interest to have as secure a network as possible.

Yep this. What's the point of being a daredevil if there's no risk of being decapitated.

 

[grumble]

Cant they jus ban the ones who cheat?

I dont have any plans on cheating, cant see the point on that.

But im eager to install my games into the HDD, just because i hate having the disc spinning the whole time.

So i want to play online, with my legal games, no cheating.... and i should be banned for that?

(and no, im not buying a new PS3.)

I'm not sure how the test would be specific enough to differentiate between owners using legit backups, owners using altered ISOs, and pirates. The first group shouldn't be penalized, and the other two should get beaten down, but how to differentiate them perfectly?

I'd guess that if Sony has the ability, they'll just smack everyone that they can catch using CFW whenever they can. It's safer for the company and quite possibly better for the system's future.

This isn't corporatism, it's self-interest. I want the console to be profitable and the be a success for the company; this translates into more games sold, more developer investment, more investment by Sony and a healthy environment for PS3 owners to prosper into the future.

 

[Zoe]

That's kind of fucked up (and not to mention authoritarian) to hope that they can "brick" peoples consoles. Banning, sure that's fine, but you want to basically cut off all forms of homebrew?

Nobody has said anything about bricking.

 

[Elfforkusu]

"Legit purposes"? Says who. You're still operating the machine beyond its designed intentions. If you're in an apartment building and someone modifies their oven for legit purposes, you'd still be fearing a fire, no?

How dare you jailbreak your iPhone. How DARE you! Outrage! Scandal!

This train of thought needs to be sent to die.

 

[Squishy]

I installed custom firmware yesterday out of interest and regret doing it since there wasn't really anything to gain. I know there is plenty of stuff in the works, but nothing I could really live without. I'm worried now that I'll get banned even if I go back to the original firmware and delete packages that I installed. I'm an idiot; all I wanted to do on my PS3 for now is keep up with my backlog and make some levels and play online with LittleBigPlanet 2 when it comes out. I guess I can't help being like my cat (extremely curious despite all consequence) :lol.

 

[grumble]

Nobody has said anything about bricking.

Second post in this thread.

 

[Jocchan]

Nobody has said anything about bricking.

You must have missed the first reply.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Cant they jus ban the ones who cheat?

They can, sure. But from a logistical standpoint it's not very realistic. I'm happy that the PS3 has finally been broken open, but it'll be pretty hard for me to blame Sony if they decide to straight up ban all consoles that have CFW.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

LOL but it's a game system, not an object that runs on natural gas and, well, creates fire.

Modding your PS3 to play Pac Man = burning down an apartment building with everyone in it. Got ya.

No, but I'm comparing everyone's enjoyment of gaming and the threat of other's ruining that enjoyment to a fire threat to everyone's safety.

 

[MikeE21286]

No way I would take my ps3 online with CFW. After all the efforts that the 360 "scene" has gone through to keep from the bamhammer and yet every year MS turns on that switch....yeah, seems like a foregone conclusion

 

[Relix]

I want to play Castlevania DLC first, then I will jailbreak :lol

 

[JudgeN]

Cant they jus ban the ones who cheat?

I dont have any plans on cheating, cant see the point on that.

But im eager to install my games into the HDD, just because i hate having the disc spinning the whole time.

So i want to play online, with my legal games, no cheating.... and i should be banned for that?


(and no, im not buying a new PS3.)

Probably not because they want to stop offline whatever as well and consider you broke PSN TOS when you went online. They will probably ban you even if your not cheating. If they can detect anything that is.

 

[Corto]

The most advisable thing to do is to wait and see what Sony counter measures will be. People can say what they think would be reasonable or sensible for Sony to do now, people can say that it will be impossible for Sony to detect CFW consoles, people can say that PS3 is irremediably open sourced from now on (a thing I said half joking when the first news come out), but a thing is for certain, there will always be the first adopters that will pave the way for the not so eager to jump in.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

No, but I'm comparing everyone's enjoyment of gaming and the threat of other's ruining that enjoyment to a fire threat to everyone's safety.

Its a dumb analogy. It assumes that the fire will affect everyone which isn't the case with CFW. People should be able to alter their games any way they want as long as they are single player. People should be able to install anything they want on THEIR PS3 as long as they are not illegally downloaded. Many will do neither of these and shouldn't receive a ban just because Sony doesn't like the notion of them having an altered firmware.

 

[xelios]

No, but I'm comparing everyone's enjoyment of gaming and the threat of other's ruining that enjoyment to a fire threat to everyone's safety.

I'm glad you realize that.

 

[MikeE21286]

The most advisable thing to do is to wait and see what Sony counter measures will be. People can say what they think would be reasonable or sensible for Sony to do now, people can say that it will be impossible for Sony to detect CFW consoles, people can say that PS3 is irremediably open sourced from now on (a thing I said half joking when the first news come out), but a thing is for certain, there will always be the first adopters that will pave the way for the not so eager to jump in.

What if they just do nothing.....then nothing...............then more nothing. Silence will be the scariest thing for fence-sitters.

 

[alr1ght]

If you want CFW & PSN, buy 2 boxes

I'm all for console banning as it will help keep cheaters off the network, which personally negatively affects me.

per TOS

# You may not use, make, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware, including Non-Licensed Peripherals, in conjunction with Sony Online Services, or take or use any data from Sony Online Services to design, develop or update unauthorized software or hardware, including cheat code software or devices that circumvent any security features or limitations included on any software or devices.
# You may not modify or attempt to modify the online client, disc, save file, server, client-server communication, or other parts of any game title, or content.
# You may not cause disruption to any account, system, hardware, software, or network connected to Sony Online Services for any reason, including for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage in a game.
# You may not attempt to hack or reverse engineer any code or equipment in connection with Sony Online Services.

You are connecting to Sony's service. You can do whatever you want with your own box.

 

[AzureNightmare]

How dare you jailbreak your iPhone. How DARE you! Outrage! Scandal!

This train of thought needs to be sent to die.

In a fire, you forgot in a fire.

 

[No_Style]

If I do partake in the homebrew, I'll probably pick up a new box and set up a new account. Fortunately (or unfortunately?), I haven't seen anything of interest to justify a new box yet.

 

[Corto]

What if they just do nothing.....then nothing...............then more nothing. Silence will be the scariest thing for fence-sitters.

They ought to do something, their shareholders, their partners (publisher companies, dev teams etc) need to be reassured that Sony will protect the platform from piracy.

 

[Pandaman]

I made no such decision. Perhaps I made the decision that I may not be able to go on PSN again, but I certainly did not make the decision to ditch all of the software I own. Narrow minded attitudes like that are what makes piracy fester.

you agreed to the terms presented to you when you made your psn account and when you purchased digital content.
you knew that if you installed custom firmware, you were putting your access to any content you had purchased at risk.
you did it anyway.
you don't need to have custom firmware, but if you want it you have to accept the possibility of the consequences you agreed to.

And secure network? As far as i'm aware I have not hacked PSN, cheated in any way nor swindled anyone out of any experience they are entitled to. In fact, I am offline, disconnected from that network entirely. I just want to make sure that, at the very least, my content can still be accessed.

as long as you cannot be distinguished from the people who do hack psn, cheat in games and swindle people, it doesn't matter what you do.

It's not illegal, i'm not harming others experiences, i'm expanding the usability of my device - so I don't care.

who said it was illegal? who said you shouldn't be able to install custom firmware?
Go ahead and do it, but accept that you cant have your cake and eat it too.

if you only have one ps3, you must weigh cfw against the privilege to continue accessing the psn and its services, which includes your ability to repeatedly download paid content. By all means pick the one that is more valuable to you, but you are not entitled to both at the potential expense of the vanilla userbase.

if you do not like how the system operates, you should never have bought games off of psn in the first place.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Its a dumb analogy. It assumes that the fire will affect everyone which isn't the case with CFW. People should be able to alter their games any way they want as long as they are single player. People should be able to install anything they want on THEIR PS3 as long as they are not illegally downloaded. Many will do neither of these and shouldn't receive a ban just because Sony doesn't like the notion of them having an altered firmware.

Anybody can claim they're tinkering to install their own backed-up games but that's not why everyone does it. And sure, people can do whatever they want "as long as they are single player". Is that a rule? Everyone is going to follow this code and stay away from MP? :lol

Maybe I'm a little paranoid, but what if I'm somehow banned for no reason, even? All because assholes want to play games without a disc or to have SMB running on yet another machine "just because you can" *strokes e-peen*

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I speculate this is not going to be a well-reasoned discussion about Sony's capability, obligation, and/or benefits and pitfalls with regard to when, why, and how severely they punish anyone running homebrew on the PS3. I am guessing it will be more or less derailed by people with enormous chips on their shoulders that equate running an SNES emulator to PS3 piracy and/or cheating online insisting on a "shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out" policy.

That said, PSN reprisal is my biggest fear with this. If I could be assured it would never happen, I would be on this so fast for the chance to play, say, Zero Mission on my PS3. But I have an itching, nagging feeling that PSN bans are the least they will do, console bans being the most.

 

[hamchan]

sacrificing that content is a decision you made when you opted into custom firmware, you have no one else to blame and it is in everyone elses interest to have as secure a network as possible.

Well I agree with this. As much as I want mkv support and a whole lot of emulators I'm going to take a wait and see approach. I know if I was in Sony's position I would start chucking bans out.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

"Legit purposes"? Says who. You're still operating the machine beyond its designed intentions. If you're in an apartment building and someone modifies their oven for legit purposes, you'd still be fearing a fire, no?

Did you really make that analogy?

 

[MikeE21286]

^I would much rather them ban my console. I can buy another one of those, but I don't wanna have to buy all the PSN content I have, plus trophies that would be permanently gone

 

[grumble]

I speculate this is not going to be a well-reasoned discussion about Sony's capability, obligation, and/or benefits and pitfalls with regard to when, why, and how severely they punish anyone running homebrew on the PS3. I am guessing it will be more or less derailed by people with enormous chips on their shoulders that equate running an SNES emulator to PS3 piracy and/or cheating online insisting on a "shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out" policy.

That said, PSN reprisal is my biggest fear with this. If I could be assured it would never happen, I would be on this so fast for the chance to play, say, Zero Mission on my PS3. But I have an itching, nagging feeling that PSN bans are the least they will do, console bans being the most.

Well, SNES emulation isn't piracy if you own the cartridge. It is piracy if you don't.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

If you want CFW & PSN, buy 2 boxes

I'm all for console banning as it will help keep cheaters off the network, which personally negatively affects me.

per TOS


You are connecting to Sony's service. You can do whatever you want with your own box.

My position as well. I am heavily considering another box at some point just for the extras.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I speculate this is not going to be a well-reasoned discussion about Sony's capability, obligation, and/or benefits and pitfalls with regard to when, why, and how severely they punish anyone running homebrew on the PS3. I am guessing it will be more or less derailed by people with enormous chips on their shoulders that equate running an SNES emulator to PS3 piracy and/or cheating online insisting on a "shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out" policy.

At the end of the day Sony has no idea what people who crack their system are using it for. Person A could be using it for something rather harmless that doesn't hurt Sony or any other developers while person B could have a harddrive full of PS3 games. As some have said in this thread, if you made the decision to pull the trigger on hacking your system then you should already know the potential consequences based on what's gone on with other systems. So I really don't see what the problem is.

 

[Cruzader]

Thank God for the new thread.

smh at those actually wanting a ban. You are aware that a) us GAF members who use CFW for legit purposes also get shafted and b) we have paid to use content that we will then be denied access to. Think about it for a second beyond just "piracy derp".

I agree but this whole thing is a double edge sword....now legit costumers are gonna get "shafted" even worse with more updates to combat hackers and lord knows what else long term(ex: PS4)

Potentially banning cheaters and PSN exploiters is a plus in my book. If you are gonna use the new PS3 stuff exploits, do it offline for that stuff that apparently matters(Emulators, region free BD playback, MKV media player etc).

Not sure why anyone would be against banning future online cheaters. I would hate to play on PSN with Socom 1 type of cheating going on....

 

[MikeE21286]

My position as well. I am heavily considering another box at some point just for the extras.

I wish I could find a 60gb system in good condition around me...it just feels like it should be the one that gets CFW. Ultimate gaming console box...

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

you agreed to the terms presented to you when you made your psn account and when you purchased digital content.
you knew that if you installed custom firmware, you were putting your access to any content you had purchased at risk.
you did it anyway.
you don't need to have custom firmware, but if you want it you have to accept the possibility of the consequences you agreed to.


as long as you cannot be distinguished from the people who do hack psn, cheat in games and swindle people, it doesn't matter what you do.


who said it was illegal? who said you shouldn't be able to install custom firmware?
Go ahead and do it, but accept that you cant have your cake and eat it too.

if you only have one ps3, you must weigh cfw against the privilege to continue accessing the psn and its services, which includes your ability to repeatedly download paid content. By all means pick the one that is more valuable to you, but you are not entitled to both at the potential expense of the vanilla userbase.

if you do not like how the system operates, you should never have bought games off of psn in the first place.

You do realize that just because its a TOS doesn't mean it would hold up in court legally. Right? If you buy a car from a dealership and it says 'you can only drive the car on Tuesdays and Thursdays' do you honestly think that would hold up in court JUST because it was told to the buyer beforehand? Hell no. People SERIOUSLY need to stop equating TOS as some unquestionable law that cannot be challenged.

 

[Drkirby]

I think Sony is within their rights to ban a console running CFW from accessing PSN. It is their computer network, they have the rights to allow or bar the access of any device they see fit from accessing it.