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[Black_Stride]

Horizon Forbidden West looks 50x better than everything on PS3.....and its a crossgen title.

OP you need to plug your PS3 back in and replay all these games you think look good.
Not BC, Not PSNOw, Not Emulation, Not videos on Youtube, Not random screenshots.

Go plug in your PS3 and look at those game today.
Then look at Forbidden West.
Your eyes will bleed.

 

[SeraphJan]

That looks only 23 times better. What happened to the other 27??

No are you kidding me? It looks exactly 24.8 times better!

 

[TLZ]

All that processing power over PS3..

I just want full local PS3 BC on PS5.

 

[Black_Stride]

These are NPCs in an overworld:
50x better than all the NPC....sorry I mean protagonists......sorry i mean prerendered in engine cutscenes ever generated on PS3.
Once we look at hero assets get fucked 50x might not be high enough a number.

 

[SeraphJan]

All that processing power over PS3..

I just want full local PS3 BC on PS5.

I mean if RPCS3 dev could do it, Sony could do it, they have the original source code and design blueprint, there is no way PS5 couldn't to a fully compatible BC.

Especially consider 8 core 16 thread of the CPU, its more than enough to emulate Cell

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I don't even know why this is the topic. And yes I'm trying to stay on topic and not be critical but given this is an enthusiast forum I find the lack of logic in this opinion very flawed.

 

[Star-Lord]

A PS5 has about 1,000 times the processing power of a PS2 but can't say the games look or play 1,000 times better.

vs




You’re right, OP, there’s no difference.

 

[FireFly]

What does it mean for a game to look X number of times better?

 

[ZywyPL]

The geomery complexity alone did rose from teens-tens of polygons per model from the early 3D era to hundreds of thousands, millions even we have today. Then there's the resolution bump, and then all the shaders. So mathematically everything is correct, the dimishing returns on the other hand are a different story.

 

[azertydu91]

Uh, maybe there's a problem with being able to quantify that?

Nailed it.How do you tell what look twice or thirce as good.I mean based on rez alone, considering that games were more often 720p, it means that just by rez they are 9 times better looking.
But you could also factor in framerate being stable or 120fps which diminishes greatly frametimes considering that all this does not give a linear increase but an exponential one.
Now add in geometry, texture, animation, IA (which to be faire hasn't evolved much),physics etc and it is easy to see how games can be considered way more than 50 times more beautiful than ps3's.

But all that is subjective since artstyle is also involved and a great artstyle can overload any technical mastery, That's why one of my most beautiful game is journey and to some it can be Okami or Horizon (be it forbidden west or forza), it can also be something more nostalgic imbued like metal slug.

 

[unintelligent orange]

you know, if we just stayed at 1080p/720p the amount of extra processing power could be spent on other things besides resolution etc.

but nope. gotta push the limits, always.

1080p was good enough. 4k or above is overkill. its nice, dont get me wrong, but is it worth it for the hardware specs we currently have this gen?

just because something exists doesnt mean it has to become the new standard all of a sudden. i feel like the gun has been jumped.

 

[OZ9000]

Some PS3 games still look very good to this day. For example:

PS5 games just seem to be a refinement of PS4 games - most games have similar assets but running at a higher resolution or framerate.

There is diminishing returns due to extra resources required to develop higher quality assets, textures etc.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Interesting to think about. Processing Power in consoles have improved over 1,000 fold in the last 20 years. Hell the ps5 has about 7x the processing power of ps4. It's amazing that processing power is growing rapidly while games design, graphics, and game play do not justify the processing growth.

A ps5 has about 1,000 times the processing power of a ps2 but can't say the games look or play 1,000 times better. Here is a chart I found interesting. https://www.gamespot.com/gallery/console-gpu-power-compared-ranking-systems-by-flop/2900-1334/#1

That's because games continue to up the processing requirements. Consoles and even PCs will never catch up to the latest in technology.

I like to think of the target goal being true CG-quality rendered frames. And that's simply too far away to even gauge when that will be a reality. So hardware continues to "chase" advances in tech without gaining a LOT of ground. RT is going to take a LONG time before GPUs can render scenes with high quality realtime CG rendering. It is moving in that direction, but still very far away.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

You sure?

Not only the graphics but PS3 rendered many games at a sub HD resolution while the standard PS5 resolution for games isn't 720p, it isn't 1080p, it's 4k. Sounds like a huge upgrade. For audio as well.

 

[jigglet]

Framez

 

[bad guy]

Why did the PS3 gamer cross the road?
- To render the objects on the other side @22fps.

 

[cireza]

Current gen games don't look better than MegaDrive games anyway.

 

[Hugare]

At 720p and 25 fps, you would see some impressive shit on current gen

4k/60 fps takes a lot of resources

 

[Astral Dog]

If you compare the Ratchet PS3 game to PS5 im sure there is a very noticeable leap in everything

 

[winjer]

This might help visualize, he law of diminishing returns, in videogames and graphics.

 

[kyliethicc]

Interesting to think about. Processing Power in consoles have improved over 1,000 fold in the last 20 years. Hell the ps5 has about 7x the processing power of ps4. It's amazing that processing power is growing rapidly while games design, graphics, and game play do not justify the processing growth.

A ps5 has about 1,000 times the processing power of a ps2 but can't say the games look or play 1,000 times better. Here is a chart I found interesting. https://www.gamespot.com/gallery/console-gpu-power-compared-ranking-systems-by-flop/2900-1334/#1

dumbest thread I've seen in a while

 

[bitbydeath]

This might help visualize, he law of diminishing returns, in videogames and graphics.

80,000 polygons.

 

[Zeroing]

I think you mean is why PS3 exclusive games looked better than Xbox 360…
PS3 used cell architecture
Xbox 360 used PowerPC

The cell architecture was very powerful but hard to code for.
Now that both consoles are on x86 you’ll see little visual upgrades each generation! Because x86 architecture is bloated, not very power efficient BUT consoles are optimized for gaming only so things aren’t that grim.

 

[TheKratos]

I have come to the conclusion TC is blind as fuck.

 

[Erebus]

I think people who dwell on the "50x better" statement of the OP are missing the point here. I was watching DF's Horizon FW PS5 vs PS4 comparison video last night and I completely get what OP is trying to see. I don't know if it is diminishing returns or the evolution of game engines and tools with scalability but I can't think of an example of say, a PS2 game scaled back to PS1 hardware but still looking almost as good and without cutting back or altering the actual gameplay, which the case of the new Horizon.

 

[lostinblue]

Well, you need ~4 times the power to render the same thing in double the resolution, let's say you're rendering things 4 times the resolution (720p to 2160p) so it's a divide by 8 factor and you're already down to it being in reality ~6x more powerful.

Add to that techniques that require extra passes like SSAO and post processing and it's clear why games are not 2160p native, this is in order to reach a bigger differential against prior consoles.

Bottlenecks have reduced, memory increased a lot (if you compare textures, PS3/X360 vs PS5/XBX the gap is comparable to N64 vs PS3/X360) and the efficiency of flops have increased which is a godsend, but native "pixels" remain the most expensive computational result you can hope to achieve.

Of course though, optimization also plays a part, the more power you have the less you have to optimize, so a lot of optimizations is left undone in modern hardware, that can be a good thing in a multiplatform sense. In the past plenty of games were tied to PS2 and PS3 due to extreme optimization. That has no place to exist in the present.

I think people who dwell on the "50x better" statement of the OP are missing the point here. I was watching DF's Horizon Dawn FW PS5 vs PS4 comparison video last night and I completely get what OP is trying to see. I don't know if it is diminishing returns or the evolution of game engines and tools with scalability but I can't think of an example of a PS2 game scaled back to PS1 but still looking almost as good and without cutting back or altering the actual gameplay.

That would be hard because PSone had such a primitive 3D engine.

Even in the case of Dreamcast vs PSone and the content being mostly the same (Rayman 2, for instance) felt like a generation apart just because of image quality.

To be fair, the difference from Xbox 360 to PS4 in image quality is kinda huge in my book even if when it comes to it still both are "HD consoles". It's not lack of pixel, it's color depth and motion (framerate, framepacing and no stuttering/vsync issues too).

 

[The artful mincer]

PS5 has a 8K game that's 16X the resolution of the same game on PS4

Your move OP

Which game is this?

 

[lostinblue]

Which game is this?

The Touryst, by Shin'en.

Doesn't output in 8K though because the hardware doesn't support it. It's basically supersampling. Internally renders at 8K then outputs in 4K.

I think people who dwell on the "50x better" statement of the OP are missing the point here. I was watching DF's Horizon FW PS5 vs PS4 comparison video last night and I completely get what OP is trying to see. I don't know if it is diminishing returns or the evolution of game engines and tools with scalability but I can't think of an example of say, a PS2 game scaled back to PS1 hardware but still looking almost as good and without cutting back or altering the actual gameplay, which the case of the new Horizon.

Part of it is the LOD concept.

Before, you had a level and character LOD and that was it, very sparse objects and a limited polygon and texture budget. That made everything devs did either additive and subtractive in a visible fashion.

In a game like the Horizon FW, devs can scale grass blade resolution as far as PS3 grass, and the fact it is there still registers more than the absence of it. There's so many things to scale it's insane, so the work becomes keeping everything in and scaling it back as needed.

Resolution being lower helps a lot too, I'm sure guerrilla has tools to check crispness in regards to resolution or at least a good rule of thumb. Not to say they haven't made a stellar job.

 

[Tomeru]

I don't know how much you know about processing power (I'm somewhat of an expert on it), but you made a terrible mistake.

 

[winjer]

80,000 polygons.

My point just flew past your head.....

 

[The artful mincer]

Okay?

Do cars with 50 times more power go 50 times faster?

If you train weights with 4 times more volume do you get 4 times stronger?

 

[socksfelloff]

And nothing on ps5 looks as good as Neo Geo. What's your point?

 

[KungFucius]

Are you fucking kidding me? Could you even define 50% better? How could a game simply look 50 times better than an older game? C'mon give an objective definition to this. With more computing power, more detail is added. More detail means things are more complex which means they take more computing power just to exist.

All joking aside, you are right. The games only look about 35x better and I demand more.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

OP watch what you say. Mod's have preference and will ban for any sort of shade being thrown about. Also you might need to get your eyes tested.

 

[smart_brazileiro]

Please don't post on the internet. I bet u have other qualities.

 

[CeeJay]

Interesting to think about. Processing Power in consoles have improved over 1,000 fold in the last 20 years. Hell the ps5 has about 7x the processing power of ps4. It's amazing that processing power is growing rapidly while games design, graphics, and game play do not justify the processing growth.

A ps5 has about 1,000 times the processing power of a ps2 but can't say the games look or play 1,000 times better. Here is a chart I found interesting. https://www.gamespot.com/gallery/console-gpu-power-compared-ranking-systems-by-flop/2900-1334/#1

Instead of putting your time and effort into creating this post, why not put some time into investigating why you are not seeing this 1000x in todays games? This is the most uneducated and entitled posts i've seen in a long while. You seem to think that every single employee and every single development house in the entire games industry is not doing their jobs to their best ability and somehow leaving all this unused power on the table whilst your uneducated assumptions are absolutely correct? You ask why "games design, graphics, and game play do not justify the processing growth" yet don't think that your own assumptions may be flawed?

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I blame crossgen

 

[Tschumi]

How can people be of posting age and not freaking understand diminishing returns? Are you just stubborn kids saying "nope! I want eternally improving graphics", come on even VFX vetted needs to zoom in to find flaws in these games, you guys are childish!

 

[The_Mike]

Lol it's a real testament to how much free time we all have that this shittest-of-the-shitposts already has 8 replies (including mine).

The saddest part is that we can't blame covid anymore.

 

[Trunim]

Wii was actually the biggest upgrade where it counts 'Gameplay'

And the worst in the long run. When I come home from work all done for, I don't want to flap and swing my arms around like a chicken to enjoy my game.

 

[ClosBSAS]

true next gen begins when ps4 fucking dies...

 

[bitbydeath]

My point just flew past your head.....

Your point is outdated.
God of War 2 - 1,200

God of War 3 - 64,000

 

[Rickyiez]

I don't even know why this is the topic. And yes I'm trying to stay on topic and not be critical but given this is an enthusiast forum I find the lack of logic in this opinion very flawed.

Because OP isn't a very smart person and somehow we're entertaining him.

If we were to quantified 50 times better looking, well the lack of aliasing in games nowadays already proved that.

 

[Lanrutcon]

I think we just lost our status as an enthusiast forum, tbh.

 

[Stuart360]

 

[supernova8]

The saddest part is that we can't blame covid anymore.

Yeah for sure. I say we all embrace the loser lives we have rather than shying away from it.

 

[Topher]

The advancement in fur technology alone.....

sorry. had to

 

[supernova8]

I think there's an argument to be made in terms of "it's not really the triangles anymore".

You'll notice how for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th generations, the resolution itself didn't change very much. That's probably part of the reason why we could get such massive improvements. I definitely think it's a mistake to target 4K AND raytracing, especially considering that our dedicated hardware for raytracing is still in its infancy (even NVIDIA hasn't quite cracked it without breaking the bank). Plus, that chart is unrealistic because there is absolutely no way we're getting 8K AND photorealism. It's just not going to happen.

9th and 10th gen should just stick to 1080p native and then maybe use some sort of upscaling solution to make it look a bit nicer. There really is no need to make it actually 4K other than marketing bullshit.

 

[winjer]

Your point is outdated.
God of War 2 - 1,200

God of War 3 - 64,000

That confirms it. The concept of the law of diminishing returns, just flew over your head.
So much so, that you are arguing a completely different matter.

 

[buenoblue]

I mean, have you played a PS3 game on a 55 inch+ 4k tv? They look pretty rough. Ps5 native games look and run great..little to no aliasing, higher smooth framerates, fast loading. What more do you want? I find if you make your tv picture high contrast and lower the colour 20% they look a lot more realistic.

I'm sick of these threads saying this gen is under powered. PS4 and PS3 gen was dogshit power wise. Still had great games though. If you really really care about power, build a PC. For £450 these machines are fucking great!