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Playstation Laying Off 900 People - Multiple Studios Effected (Insomniac/Guerilla/Firesprite) - London Studio Shuts Down

StreetsofBeige

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
GHG said:
F7G4kaNXUAAarji


Try Not To Laugh 90 Day Fiance GIF by TLC Europe
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I wouldn’t put too much into any of those best places to work or best managed places awards.

Those kinds of awards are not only politically driven but also only if a company is willing to go through hoops being evaluated.

You can the awesomest place ever to work. But if the company doesn’t want to take part in any industry analysis surveys they won’t show up in the database.

It’s like retailers nominating which supplier is the top company to work with. It’s the one who gives tons of cost concessions making Walmart or whomever happy as a clam. A hardnosed supplier telling them to fuck off will never win that kind of award at the dinner gala.
 
Woopah

Woopah

Member
nush said:
Ah, DEI hires...
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What are you basing this on?
efyu_lemonardo said:
Nintendo is probably growing, if anything. Perhaps slower than expected, but they're definitely not shrinking.
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Revenue and profits are currently up this fiscal year, but are likely to be down next fiscal year.
Represent. said:
Real talk: Has Sony released any good news for gamers all gen?

I cannot remember the last piece of good news they've had other than some PS5 sale figure.
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Spiderman and Helldivers 2 were huge successes.
SlimySnake said:
Doesnt mean they are not good at what they do. They last released a game 4 years ago. It took Nintendo 7 years to release Zelda TOTK. Doesnt mean 3 years ago, Nintendo EAD was trash.
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EPD is a huge network of different studios so it isn't really comparable.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
The decline is typical as for PlayStation hardware, usually the third FY is the peak year. Also, the declines for the 4th FY are very soft.

FWIW the target for FY '23 was insanely high, and they will likely only miss it by ~ 2 million. There could always be factors BTS why they are predicting a decline in hardware sales though and for all we know they could be preparing for a bigger-than-normal decline which could potentially be a point of concern.

However, I kind of doubt that is the case here.
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They've already reduced their target by 4 million. They'll definitely miss their initial target by more than 2 million.
 
Thaimasker

Thaimasker

Member
PSlayer said:
Revenue is not profit, people have to stop conflating these two concepts. Budgets are out of control to the point where a game has to sell almost 10 million copies at full price just to break even.

I did some math after the insominiac and Naughty dog budget leaks. A game with a 400 million budget(development+marketing) needs to sell 8+ million copies at $70 a piece to break even. And guess what? we are getting there budget wise.

How many ips can sell so much at that price? Something has to give. Either we start paying $100 for games + microtransactions + $60 DLCs or companies will have to scale down and adopt a japanese style of development(smaller teams iterating in the same formula over and over and over like Nintendo,From software, Bamco,Capcom,etc...)

There is a crash coming and it will hit north america and west europe really hard.
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Revenue or profit, these massive trillion and billion dollar companies don't have to do these layoffs . It's happening in every sector. Not just gaming.
Yes we have to start paying more, not any of these millionaires and billionaires taking pay cuts because it's not actually that dire for the company other than infinite growth and the rich getting as rich as possible
 
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E

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
Woopah said:
Revenue and profits are currently up this fiscal year, but are likely to be down next fiscal year.
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I meant growing as in hiring, unlike Sony firing 900 employees which is what this thread is a response to. Nintendo have a new Switch to launch with better graphics, so they need the extra manpower. If their profits are lower next year, that will be part of the reason.
 
Woopah

Woopah

Member
efyu_lemonardo said:
I meant growing as in hiring, unlike Sony firing 900 employees which is what this thread is a response to. Nintendo have a new Switch to launch with better graphics, so they need the extra manpower. If their profits are lower next year, that will be part of the reason.
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Ah sorry I misunderstood.

Yes Nintendo is currently at 7317 employees, 2,200 more than before the Switch. They do have further expansion plans though.
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
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E

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
O

Ozriel

M$FT
hemo memo said:
Yeah yeah people were dying but damn it we can’t sell more PS5 oh no. Also we know this covid situation will end but let’s get bigger anyways. Brilliant management. Jim Ryan should write a book to educate the industry and business schools everywhere.
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Not sure why you’re blaming Ryan. Most tech companies got bigger during COVID.
nush said:
Ah, DEI hires...
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Is everything OK with you?
 
OmegaSupreme

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Eiknarf said:
Here are five things that the middle class will barely be able to afford in 2030:

1. Extended family trips/vacations. Gone will be the days of two week vacations to exotic places
2. Buying new cars (leasing will still be OK)
3. Private school tuition
4. Home ownership
5. Healthcare costs

(look it up if members think I'm making this up)
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By 2030? Many in the middle class can't afford that now.
 
thicc_girls_are_teh_best

thicc_girls_are_teh_best

Gold Member
Woopah said:
They've already reduced their target by 4 million. They'll definitely miss their initial target by more than 2 million.
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IIRC they hit 30 million or so at the start of last year, and for FY '22 Q4 they did 3.3 million. By December 9th they hit 50 million (or maybe 50.4 million or 50.9 million, can't remember) so up to that point they'd have sold at least 16.7 million units. Some numbers I saw for WW sales in January put PS5 at around 2.7 million, then we can assume they likely did at least 2 million WW in December after the 9th (PS hardware tends to do very well in December).

So by end of January the PS5 is probably at least around 21.4 million for the FY. Helldivers 2 was a much bigger success than they initially thought it'd be, so they may see higher system sales for February than internally projected. FF VII Rebirth and Rise of the Ronin should help with this month and, really, March, as well.

I think it's 100% possible they can get within 2 - 1.5 million of the FY '23 target, maybe even within 1 million. But I do agree, that they won't hit the 25 million target. That was always an unbelievably high target anyhow.
 
poppabk

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
StreetsofBeige said:
Sonys biggest division is gaming. So when it comes to financials, all eyes beeline to PS first.

When times are rolling, sit back and rake in the sales and profits while new studios and employee count goes up. When times are tough, time to cut back and it goes the other way.
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Times aren't tough for Playstation though, they are effectively the defacto 'regular' console in most parts of the world. They have been more succesul than they probably could have imagined at the start of the gen.
The problem is they are spending money like there is no tomorrow and need to get it under control.
 
Jaybe

Jaybe

Member
poppabk said:
The problem is they are spending money like there is no tomorrow and need to get it under control.
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Yes, the addition of Bungie and its 1,350 employees added so much ongoing costs that aren’t being offset by revenue from their games. Although it would have been bad optics, they should have closed London down sooner at least to help ‘make room’ in the budget for Bungie staff. Bungie was probably a mistake too but if they create another Destiny/Halo it would be worth it.
 
M

mdkirby

Member
StueyDuck said:
Of course it's schreier 🤣 he's such a weeny.

In regards to the layoffs... the writings been on the wall for the industry for a while now. Sony won't be the last to do this.

Sucks about studio London though.

But it's also studio "London" one of the most expensive cities in the world to operate out of currently.

Why these companies still exist in San Fran and London and all these expensive places I'm surprised to see are still around (well not studio london).

Move these companies to more feasible locations and an added benefit will be a welcome culture change to most these studios to.

Keep eyes on WB, I feel like they are going to be next with the disappointment that was suicide squad, Gotham knights and MK1 seemingly not setting the world on fire
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Yeah they could move to my city, Leeds, which is a great thriving city in the middle of the country, and it would cost them half of what they are in London. Or they could move further north to middlesbrough which has a thriving games community, but is a grim place, for about 1/5th of what they are paying in London. Ofcourse attracting top senior staff to middlesbrough would be a tough sell 🤣…
 
AmuroChan

AmuroChan

Member
This was bound to happen when certain sectors expanded uncontrollably during the pandemic. I'm in the tech industry and my company had to lay off about 7% of our workforce back in December. Thankfully I was spared, but everyone in the company knew this was coming because the company had become so bloated.
 
Puscifer

Puscifer

Member
adamsapple said:
Was VR1 'officially' supported on PC too or is this the first time there's rumors / talks about that happening?
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VR2 is supposedly coming to PC, with the layoffs here that rumor makes more sense as you can proliferate the market with what is likely the best cost/benefit ratio headset out there.
 
Woopah

Woopah

Member
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
IIRC they hit 30 million or so at the start of last year, and for FY '22 Q4 they did 3.3 million. By December 9th they hit 50 million (or maybe 50.4 million or 50.9 million, can't remember) so up to that point they'd have sold at least 16.7 million units. Some numbers I saw for WW sales in January put PS5 at around 2.7 million, then we can assume they likely did at least 2 million WW in December after the 9th (PS hardware tends to do very well in December).

So by end of January the PS5 is probably at least around 21.4 million for the FY. Helldivers 2 was a much bigger success than they initially thought it'd be, so they may see higher system sales for February than internally projected. FF VII Rebirth and Rise of the Ronin should help with this month and, really, March, as well.

I think it's 100% possible they can get within 2 - 1.5 million of the FY '23 target, maybe even within 1 million. But I do agree, that they won't hit the 25 million target. That was always an unbelievably high target anyhow.
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At the end of December they were a 16.4 million for the FY. To be at 21.4 million by the end of Jan means they would have shipped 5 million in a month. Which is highly unlikely.

For you to be right and PS5 to reach 23 million for the FY, they would need 6.6 million Q4. The only time they have been able to do that was in Q4 last year when they had the end of PS5 shortages. They won't have that this year.
 
thicc_girls_are_teh_best

thicc_girls_are_teh_best

Gold Member
Puscifer said:
VR2 is supposedly coming to PC, with the layoffs here that rumor makes more sense as you can proliferate the market with what is likely the best cost/benefit ratio headset out there.
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Yeah but if they don't have a streaming client so PS5 owners with the headset can play PC VR games that likely won't get native PS5 ports, alongside enabling native support for the headset on PC, that is going to be a big slap in the face to the console owners who bought the headset.

In fact it could make a lot of them weary about buying future peripherals. We saw SEGA make somewhat similar mistakes dropping expensive peripherals too soon and burning early adopters with the SEGA CD and especially 32X. So at the very least, Sony have to do right by the console owners and let them be able to stream PC VR games through their PS5 to their PSVR2 headset.

Because as-is I highly doubt many PC VR game makers are going to bother making native ports of those games for PS5 once the headset gets native PC support. I mean specifically the VR-only games; traditional games with VR modes could still possibly get ports to PS5 that's something of a different topic.

Woopah said:
At the end of December they were a 16.4 million for the FY. To be at 21.4 million by the end of Jan means they would have shipped 5 million in a month. Which is highly unlikely.

For you to be right and PS5 to reach 23 million for the FY, they would need 6.6 million Q4. The only time they have been able to do that was in Q4 last year when they had the end of PS5 shortages. They won't have that this year.
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Yeah I made a mistake about the January estimates; the source I saw had ~ 1.6 million WW for the month, not 2.7 million.

However the 16.4 million for EOY 2023 is too low. They already hit 50 million by December 9, so they would have reached the 16.4 for FY '23 by that point, with the rest of December to go. And it's very likely they did at least another 1.5 - 2 million WW between the 9th and 31st.

So taking the upper of that guessimate, and the supposed 1.7 million for January WW, current FY totals would be at 20.1 million. So total FY '23 amounts could be at worst 2-3 million under the 25 million unit target.

MR ARCADE FOREVER said:
From Imsomniac is surprising...
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Probably those who were working on the cancelled Spiderverse GaaS title.
 
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Woopah

Woopah

Member
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
Yeah but if they don't have a streaming client so PS5 owners with the headset can play PC VR games that likely won't get native PS5 ports, alongside enabling native support for the headset on PC, that is going to be a big slap in the face to the console owners who bought the headset.

In fact it could make a lot of them weary about buying future peripherals. We saw SEGA make somewhat similar mistakes dropping expensive peripherals too soon and burning early adopters with the SEGA CD and especially 32X. So at the very least, Sony have to do right by the console owners and let them be able to stream PC VR games through their PS5 to their PSVR2 headset.

Because as-is I highly doubt many PC VR game makers are going to bother making native ports of those games for PS5 once the headset gets native PC support. I mean specifically the VR-only games; traditional games with VR modes could still possibly get ports to PS5 that's something of a different topic.



Yeah I made a mistake about the January estimates; the source I saw had ~ 1.6 million WW for the month, not 2.7 million.

However the 16.4 million for EOY 2023 is too low. They already hit 50 million by December 9, so they would have reached the 16.4 for FY '23 by that point, with the rest of December to go. And it's very likely they did at least another 1.5 - 2 million WW between the 9th and 31st.

So taking the upper of that guessimate, and the supposed 1.7 million for January WW, current FY totals would be at 20.1 million. So total FY '23 amounts could be at worst 2-3 million under the 25 million unit target.



Probably those who were working on the cancelled Spiderverse GaaS title.
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We don't need any guesses or estimates. Sony reports the figures. The official numbers are:

Original FY23 target - 25 million
Revised FY23 target - 21 million
FY23 results after 9 months -16.4 million

16.4 is the real number.
 
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StreetsofBeige

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
poppabk said:
Times aren't tough for Playstation though, they are effectively the defacto 'regular' console in most parts of the world. They have been more succesul than they probably could have imagined at the start of the gen.
The problem is they are spending money like there is no tomorrow and need to get it under control.
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They are in tough if you go by % terms.

Although their annual gaming profit is around $2 billion as usual, the profit % has been cut in half. So even though top line gaming sales are at record dollars, that margin % at 6% looks bad. Two years in a row of about 6%. The previous four years before that were 12-13% each.
 
Eiknarf

Eiknarf

Banned
FoxMcChief said:
If I were Sony, I’d cancel the PS5 Pro, discontinue the PSVR2 and focus on ending this generation sooner, and push for the PS6 to release in late 2025 or early 2026. The industry needs to get the stink of this generation off of it.
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The PS5 should last longer, no?

Why jump into a new generation when by everyone’s account, “we’re just really getting started with this PS5 generation right now”

It’s been all remakes and remasters, and although they look great, there’s not a big difference. The PS5 Dualsense is the bigger jump in my opinion

So I say let’s delay the PS6 one year.
 
kyussman

kyussman

Member
Damn,I knew I had spent a lot on PlayStation during the PS3 and PS4 gens but I had no idea me passing on this gen would hit them this hard.......but hey,if you had made more interesting games and not put so much woke shit in your games I may be happily playing a PS5 right now,lol.
 
DarthPutin

DarthPutin

Member
London Studio makes sense tbh, who thought that fantasy multi-player that looks like ugly cartoon has a high chance of success? It was such a weird looking title.

Similar for Twisted Metal GAAS, GAAS needs broad appeal more than anything. At least it had some nostalgia going for it.

Seems like they cancelled a few multi-player games that weren't working out and laid off some of the people hired to make them (GAAS would need strong support pipeline). Doesn't explain Insomniac and Guerilla peeps of course.

Obviously very sad for people who are left jobless in industry oversaturated with freshly fired.
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Puscifer said:
VR2 is supposedly coming to PC, with the layoffs here that rumor makes more sense as you can proliferate the market with what is likely the best cost/benefit ratio headset out there.
Click to expand...

Them also not releasing any VR2 number kinda shows that it hasn't had the kind of adoption they would have wanted so far.
 
lh032

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
Unknown? said:
Are they? One of the biggest criticisms of their latest financial reports is that the gaming division has very low profit for the massive revenue.

If you're talking tech in general, I don't know about how much profit they are bringing in.

I do know the economy where SIE is headquartered is doing poorly though.
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Yes they are .

Even Microsoft is doing layoff.

Revenue is struggling to catch up with dev cost , add to the fact that shareholders want more , it's impossible to achieve this target or so called good margins in the long run

How do you get good margins when consumer wants big beautiful games and the increase of dev cost ?

If you charge a game 80 dollar there would be riots , if you make an unimpressive game, most gamer just ignore it.
 
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MatrixReloaded101

MatrixReloaded101

Member
FoxMcChief said:
If I were Sony, I’d cancel the PS5 Pro, discontinue the PSVR2 and focus on ending this generation sooner, and push for the PS6 to release in late 2025 or early 2026. The industry needs to get the stink of this generation off of it.
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They still can't lower the price of the PS5 because the parts are still too expensive so releasing a PS6 that soon would mean it would have to be like $700+ which is obviously a death sentence for the console.

The smart thing would be for them to ride out this gen longer which is what they will do and the PS5 pro will be "their new console option", plus GTA 6 is going to drive more console sells for them.

Based on everything that is happening especially with the economy I think this gen will be one of the longer ones.
 
BennyBlanco

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
Yeah but if they don't have a streaming client so PS5 owners with the headset can play PC VR games that likely won't get native PS5 ports, alongside enabling native support for the headset on PC, that is going to be a big slap in the face to the console owners who bought the headset.

In fact it could make a lot of them weary about buying future peripherals. We saw SEGA make somewhat similar mistakes dropping expensive peripherals too soon and burning early adopters with the SEGA CD and especially 32X. So at the very least, Sony have to do right by the console owners and let them be able to stream PC VR games through their PS5 to their PSVR2 headset.

Because as-is I highly doubt many PC VR game makers are going to bother making native ports of those games for PS5 once the headset gets native PC support. I mean specifically the VR-only games; traditional games with VR modes could still possibly get ports to PS5 that's something of a different topic.



Yeah I made a mistake about the January estimates; the source I saw had ~ 1.6 million WW for the month, not 2.7 million.

However the 16.4 million for EOY 2023 is too low. They already hit 50 million by December 9, so they would have reached the 16.4 for FY '23 by that point, with the rest of December to go. And it's very likely they did at least another 1.5 - 2 million WW between the 9th and 31st.

So taking the upper of that guessimate, and the supposed 1.7 million for January WW, current FY totals would be at 20.1 million. So total FY '23 amounts could be at worst 2-3 million under the 25 million unit target.



Probably those who were working on the cancelled Spiderverse GaaS title.
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Streaming VR games from the cloud (not from your own PC like Quest) would be awful. Any extra latency or frame drops would be super noticeable and that’s how some people get motion sickness from VR.
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
FunkMiller said:
I look forward to Sony’s next report when they announce record profits and bonuses for all of their executives.
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I wonder what kind of bonuses Ryan is getting on his way out. If he's getting the Kotick treatment.
 
FunkMiller

FunkMiller

Gold Member
adamsapple said:
I wonder what kind of bonuses Ryan is getting on his way out. If he's getting the Kotick treatment.
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Oh, I’m sure the fat cunt is absolutely making bank on his way out the door. The fact some idiots almost deify these greedy corporate shits just because they make the box they like will always depress me.

Not one of these lay offs needs to happen, if people at executive level are paid fairly for what they do. But executives are pretty much universally just out to gain as much personal profit as they can. Fuck everyone else. I’ve seen it time and time again through work, and it makes you sick.
 
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