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Pokémon CEO seemingly confirms NX is a console/handheld hybrid

T

trutrutru

Member
ggx2ac said:
If you only want to argue on the merits of one quote and not include others that backup the statement, this argument is going to go nowhere.

Second, what do you call the games that have cross play with PS3/Vita/PS4 and on Wii U/3DS other than a shared library?

Third, the quote by itself is meaningless without other statements to back it up. What is the NX? What is the concept of a home console? What is the concept of a handheld? How do you change that concept?

Why are you talking about software when it wasn't mentioned in that quote. If you want to talk about only that quote then you can't use Nintendo's merging of architectures to back it up as it's a completely different statement just like you disregarded my other statements.
Click to expand...

Im pretty sure i went over the ps3/vita thing already. Still two seperate pieces of software. The same game does not run on both systems. It is a port. Not the same game. Also not every ps3 game was on vita or vice versa. End of story there.

Wow.are you even reading my responses. If we are looking at other quotes, then it would disqualify the hybrid concept because nintendo has made comments that suggest multiple devices, and have even made references to how apple operate. Omitting other quotes actually keeps you in the discussion lol

Thats what im saying. The quote doesnt say anything. It doesnt confirm hybrid and is vague enough that it is open to interpretation. And like you said earlier, if he wanted to reveal or give us actual info about what this thing is or actually does, he would have been more direct.

Im talking about software because he is talking about what it means to be a console/handheld not what it IS to be one. Its intentionally a little more open ended. I went through this already.

And im not using other quotes to prove my point, im simply stating that the quoten in question doesnt confirm anything and is Again, open to interpretation.

I think we're done. You've run out of straws to grasp at.
 
S

Skittzo0413

Member
Diffense said:
How about a signed Android or a signed iPhone or a signed Wii U for that matter (deluxe or basic)?

I'm just saying. I'm not 100% convinced that we can say it's one hybrid device yet but it could be.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's too early to say 100% convinced, but the evidence overwhelmingly points to a single device (at least for the system being called "NX"):

-Eurogamer leak and subsequent confirmations
-Nintendo referring to NX as a system, device, console, but never as a group of devices or an OS/ecosystem
-Uniqlo and Splatoon prizes being "NX consoles"
-The quote in the OP saying that the NX blurs the line between handheld and home console devices

Really we have seen absolutely nothing, official or unofficial, which suggests that the code name NX may refer to more than one device. Again, Nintendo has discussed this before the NX name drop, but NX has never been said or rumored to be a family of devices.

Edit

Dark Cloud said:
This means nothing. You can sign iPhone or iPad, but it doesn't mean there aren't others or won't be others.
Click to expand...

Read the context of that post. My point is the NX being a physical device (rather than an ecosystem/OS/store front), makes the quote in the OP mean that this physical NX device is what's blurring the lines between handheld and home console devices. If the NX was an OS or ecosystem it might have a different meaning, but the NX being a physical object makes the quote pretty hard to not mean the NX is a hybrid.
 
G

ggx2ac

Member
trutrutru said:
Im pretty sure i went over the ps3/vita thing already. Still two seperate pieces of software. The same game does not run on both systems. It is a port. Not the same game. Also not every ps3 game was on vita or vice versa. End of story there.

Wow.are you even reading my responses. If we are looking at other quotes, then it would disqualify the hybrid concept because nintendo has made comments that suggest multiple devices, and have even made references to how apple operate. Omitting other quotes actually keeps you in the discussion lol

Thats what im saying. The quote doesnt say anything. It doesnt confirm hybrid and is vague enough that it is open to interpretation. And like you said earlier, if he wanted to reveal or give us actual info about what this thing is or actually does, he would have been more direct.

Im talking about software because he is talking about what it means to be a console/handheld not what it IS to be one. Its intentionally a little more open ended. I went through this already.

And im not using other quotes to prove my point, im simply stating that the quoten in question doesnt confirm anything and is Again, open to interpretation.

I think we're done. You've run out of straws to grasp at.
Click to expand...

Reread those statements from the link below and tell me how a hybrid was denied?

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=215923839

Edit: I find it funny that you didn't see that I mentioned cross play. There are games on PS3/PS4/Vita and 3DS/Wii U that when you buy one game, you own it on all other platforms. Even sharing the game saves.
 
D

Diffense

Member
Skittzo0413 said:
I agree that it's too early to say 100% convinced, but the evidence overwhelmingly points to a single device (at least for the system being called "NX"):

-Eurogamer leak and subsequent confirmations
-Nintendo referring to NX as a system, device, console, but never as a group of devices or an OS/ecosystem
-Uniqlo and Splatoon prizes being "NX consoles"
-The quote in the OP saying that the NX blurs the line between handheld and home console devices

Really we have seen absolutely nothing, official or unofficial, which suggests that the code name NX may refer to more than one device. Again, Nintendo has discussed this before the NX name drop, but NX has never been said or rumored to be a family of devices.
Click to expand...

Technically 3DS is a family of devices too though, that plays mostly the same games (a few are new 3DS exclusive). Yet Nintendo can still speak about games coming to "the 3DS". We know that this implies any or all the devices in the 3DS family because we know there are multiple related and compatible devices. There is no reason Nintendo couldn't refer to "the NX" even if there is a family of compatible devices. We would not generally INFER that there are multiple devices from such phrasing but that does not rule it out.

I have to admit that the hybrid talk makes me nervous and it doesn't seem Nintendo-like.
They'd have to make sacrifices to produce a bulkier portable and a weaker home console than would otherwise be possible.
It seems much more like Nintendo to offer different device options as they have done with the 3DS (normal, XL, new, etc) and Wii U (deluxe, basic).
However, the portable and console would converge into one platform for NX so you'd have access to basically the same software regardless of your preferred form factor.
But there have been claims from video game journalists that NX is a hybrid so one has to assume they have sources telling them that.
Hopefully we'll find out soon.
 
S

Skittzo0413

Member
Diffense said:
Technically 3DS is a family of devices too though, that plays mostly the same games (a few are new 3DS exclusive). Yet Nintendo can still speak about games coming to "the 3DS". We know that this implies any or all the devices in the 3DS family because we know there are multiple related and compatible devices. There is no reason Nintendo couldn't refer to "the NX" even if there is a family of compatible devices. We would not generally INFER that there are multiple devices from such phrasing but that does not rule it out.

I have to admit that the hybrid talk makes me nervous and it doesn't seem Nintendo-like.
They'd have to make sacrifices to produce a bulkier portable and a weaker home console than would otherwise be possible.
It seems much more like Nintendo to offer different device options as they have done with the 3DS (normal, XL, new, etc) and Wii U (deluxe, basic).
However, the portable and console would converge into one platform for NX so you'd have access to basically the same software regardless of your preferred form factor.
But there have been claims from video game journalists that NX is a hybrid so one has to assume they have sources telling them that.
Hopefully we'll find out soon.
Click to expand...

That's true, and a very good point. I do agree that nothing has been confirmed, especially officially, but it's hard not to at least see why this quote in the OP strongly suggests a single hybrid device.

And as for the multiple form factors, there is no reason why they can't come later. But for the NX launch (again, they refer to it as a launch of a product and not an ecosystem but I digress) a single product that plays all of Nintendo's games sums up Nintendo's goals for the future in a nice, simple package.

Also, the idea of a family of devices playing the exact same library may not work out in practice, as you'll either be limiting every game by your weakest hardware or you'll be making games that cannot be played satisfactorily on the low end devices. It's a messy situation for game development.
 
T

trutrutru

Member
ggx2ac said:
Reread those statements from the link below and tell me how a hybrid was denied?

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=215923839

Edit: I find it funny that you didn't see that I mentioned cross play. There are games on PS3/PS4/Vita and 3DS/Wii U that when you buy one game, you own it on all other platforms.
Click to expand...

Ok and so it doesnt disqualify hybrid (which i actually believe it will be) but also doesnt disqualify multiple devices. So let me concede in that the use of other quotes doesnt disqualify hybrid.

Now back to the quote. It doesnt confirm hybrid. Doesnt deconfirm multiple devices. And doesnt indicate that both can or cannot co-exist. Maybe its still multiple devices and a hybrid is one of them.
Who knows. The quote in question Does not confirm anything. Doesnt rule out anything. Doesnt say...anything.

My post, summed up, is saying the quote does not confirm hybrid. Ive gone over the meat of the conversation a couple times over now. Any further conversation outside of that quote is useless because no quote give us an indication on what the nx actually is. It can be one, or the other, or even both. This quote says nothing that draw us any closer to any one theory.

Anything else about how the change in what it means to be a portable or console cant mean an approach to anything other then the hardware itself, i'll refer you to previous posts. Any issue you have with how shared library, again, previous posts. Stuff about brand new concept within the context of this quote, previous posts.

Also note that the system could still offer a shared library and still offer something brand new. Could be hybrid, could be some other "gimmick". Shared library and brand new dont need to be mutually exclusive. Same goes for theories outside of hybrid.
 
T

trutrutru

Member
ggx2ac said:
Reread those statements from the link below and tell me how a hybrid was denied?

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=215923839

Edit: I find it funny that you didn't see that I mentioned cross play. There are games on PS3/PS4/Vita and 3DS/Wii U that when you buy one game, you own it on all other platforms. Even sharing the game saves.
Click to expand...

Omg. Crossplay is still two different pieces of software is it not? And did it apply to all games? Nooooo.

Dude. Give it a rest.
 
D

Diffense

Member
Skittzo0413 said:
That's true, and a very good point. I do agree that nothing has been confirmed, especially officially, but it's hard not to at least see why this quote in the OP strongly suggests a single hybrid device.

And as for the multiple form factors, there is no reason why they can't come later. But for the NX launch (again, they refer to it as a launch of a product and not an ecosystem but I digress) a single product that plays all of Nintendo's games sums up Nintendo's goals for the future in a nice, simple package.

Also, the idea of a family of devices playing the exact same library may not work out in practice, as you'll either be limiting every game by your weakest hardware or you'll be making games that cannot be played satisfactorily on the low end devices. It's a messy situation for game development.
Click to expand...

About the last point, I don't think it would be too bad if they were planning for it and thinking about how to scale. As far as graphical detail is concerned, they could take advantage of the LOD system they likely already have and make the engine always render the models at less than the maximum LOD when running on the handheld. When running on the console, models near to the virtual camera would get rendered in all their glory. However, there would only be one version of the game with the same data.

The SCD patent also tells us that they have been thinking about how to use additional computing resources over a network. This seems like a more relevant research direction if they have a family of heterogenous devices that they want to work together while playing the same games. The weaker devices could look for SCDs to enable features like more bots in a FPS. It's less relevant if there is one hybrid device (though still relevant).
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
After one page full of trying to push the "but we don't know, it can be everything, even butterflies" arguments to fight a pretty clear quote, I still haven't read one argument on how having a family of devices change the very concept of each device within that family. I guess PS4 is not a classic console and Vita is not a classic handheld because they are a family and share games.
 
S

smashballTaz

Member
It really does seem like it's going to be a reverse Wii U. Pretty much everyone wanted to be able to take the Wii U gamepad anywhere and be able to play the games portable-style. So it makes sense that Nintendo listened to that feedback. Of course there will be more to it, like the rumoured detachable controllers that will give you a seperate controller when linked up to a tv, maybe even the Sharp freeform display thing, and I'm sure other nifty Nintendo things like a better Miiverse and seamless Miitomo / other Nintendo app integration.

Put me down for a October reveal.
 
H

Hermii

Member
KingSnake said:
After one page full of trying to push the "but we don't know, it can be everything, even butterflies" arguments to fight a pretty clear quote, I still haven't read one argument on how having a family of devices change the very concept of each device within that family. I guess PS4 is not a classic console and Vita is not a classic handheld because they are a family and share games.
Click to expand...

If Vita had a shared OS, architecture, and Development enviroment with PS4, it would change the concept of handheld and home console.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Hermii said:
If Vita had a shared OS, architecture, and Development enviroment with PS4, it would change the concept of handheld and home console.
Click to expand...

How? Won't Vita be still a classic handheld?

It goes even beyond that, you can play PS4 games on Vita via remote, does that makes PS4 not a console?
 
H

Hermii

Member
KingSnake said:
How? Won't Vita be still a classic handheld?

It goes even beyond that, you can play PS4 games on Vita via remote, does that makes PS4 not a console?
Click to expand...

The distinction between handheld and home console software would dissapear, you could slap Vita cartridges into your PS4 (eventually blurays into vita. They would have a shared physical medium) and play the game at higher settings, the Library would be shared. The Vita would work more like a PS4 pro exept that its less powerful than the base model instead of more.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Hermii said:
The distinction between handheld and home console software would dissapear, you could slap Vita cartridges into your PS4 (eventually blurays into vita. They would have a shared physical medium) and play the game at higher settings, the Library would be shared. The Vita would work more like a PS4 pro exept that its less powerful than the base model instead of more.
Click to expand...

Would Vita still be handheld?

Would a hypothetical NX console less of a console if it uses cartridges?

Would a future XBOX or PS without a disc drive be less of a console?

If I buy only digital games that I can cross play between PS4 and Vita does it mean that my hypothetical PS4 is less of a console and my hypothetical Vita is less of a handheld?
 
Robottiimu2000

Robottiimu2000

Member
Where the hell is our Nintendo Direct on NX!? I was promised by the online speculation it would be this september!!

I want to throw money at the screen already!!
 
D

Dark Cloud

Member
stilgar said:
A hypothetical countdown for an announcement of a announcement.

That's where we're at. Damn you Nintendo.
Click to expand...
It feels like we've been doing this for so long now that it's normal lol.

And here I am not knowing I've lost mind for the same amount of time too. :p
 
G

ggx2ac

Member
Hermii said:
If Vita had a shared OS, architecture, and Development enviroment with PS4, it would change the concept of handheld and home console.
Click to expand...
.
“The NX is trying to change the concept of what it means to be a home console device or a hand-held device,” said Mr. Ishihara.
Click to expand...

I honestly think that if the statement was "home console device and handheld device" that it would give plausibility to a brothers of systems coming out first, handheld and home console separately, shares the same software.

When the NX is trying to change the concept of what it means to be a home console or a handheld. It gives plausibility to a hybrid.

How do you change the concept of a home console? By giving it portable capabilities: It has a screen and you can take it outside to play. (Best example I've seen of this is the PS1 with the LCD screen attachment.)

How do you change the concept of a handheld console? You play it at home connected to the TV and have local multiplayer on it using controllers. (The hybrid we expect of the NX.)

Both involve becoming a hybrid.

How do you change the concept of a home console and a handheld? By giving them the same software. That is not new though since it was already done by the PC-Engine and PC-Engine GT years ago and you have the Sega Genesis with the Sega Nomad.

The 'or' statement affects the concepts of each device separately.

An 'and' statement would affect the concept of a collective of devices.

Hence that's why I think the 'or' statement makes sense for a hybrid while the 'and' statement makes sense for a family of devices/are brothers etc
 
J

Joelstinton14

Member
I think effectively we will get a Vita with HDMI output that also acts a console, but it is important to note that the Vita/ps4 wasn't originally designed to do such a thing. The Vita for instance is hampered because it has no L2/R2 buttons, there is no uniformity in the design, from a hardware perspective, or Software/Os side either.

Being designed from the ground up should leverage better performance, and some cool OS/software quirks that i expect Nintendo will sell as the unique aspect. The PS4 for instance is a device you go home to play. It feels like a separate activity from your day to day routine.

Taking the tablet part away with you i think will have some functionality (other than playing games) that means like a phone, or tablet, that console unit does become a part of your day to day thinking. I'm not sure what will that entail, but Nintendo are good at recognising things that we do and don't do. (I,e playing one Mario Run one handed)

The only thing i can think of is, is that you gain experience for doing smartphone esq games that are related to your main game, go home dock the tablet and you have levelled up a couple of times.

Also i think the main selling point of this console will be the multiple controllers attachments. Play as you like.
 
H

Hermii

Member
KingSnake said:
Would Vita still be handheld?

Would a hypothetical NX console less of a console if it uses cartridges?

Would a future XBOX or PS without a disc drive be less of a console?

If I buy only digital games that I can cross play between PS4 and Vita does it mean that my hypothetical PS4 is less of a console and my hypothetical Vita is less of a handheld?
Click to expand...

If you disagree that having its own seperate software library is a part of the concept of a handheld / home console concepts, then the concept woudnt change if they made a portable version of the PS4 with 100% software parity.

We are just arguing about semantics.
 
M

marmoka

Banned
Dark Cloud said:
If there's going to be an announcement it will happen in less than 6 hours.
Click to expand...

Nickle said:
News coming in 20 minutes. I am a verified gaf poster.
Click to expand...

(Posted 2 days ago.)

giphy.gif



Please not again XD
 
D

Diffense

Member
KingSnake said:
After one page full of trying to push the "but we don't know, it can be everything, even butterflies" arguments to fight a pretty clear quote, I still haven't read one argument on how having a family of devices change the very concept of each device within that family. I guess PS4 is not a classic console and Vita is not a classic handheld because they are a family and share games.
Click to expand...

What Ishihara said is that [codename] NX "is trying to change the concept of what it means to be a home console device or a hand-held device". What he didn't say is that it's a single device that you can't accurately describe as either a console or portable. There is a difference! Certainly, if there are multiple machines and the home console can "automatically" play portable games and vice versa then "what it means to be a handheld or home console" would certainly have changed because this was not the case with Gamecube/GBA, Wii/DS or Wii U/3DS. In that case, Pokemon would come to the home console by default even though it was previously portable exclusive. All this without having a hybrid.

IMO, the possibilities for what NX could be are still open after this interview. Ishihara hasn't confirmed a single hybrid device.
 
H

Hermii

Member
Diffense said:
What Ishihara said is that [codename] NX "is trying to change the concept of what it means to be a home console device or a hand-held device". What he didn't say is that it's a single device that you can't accurately describe as either a console or portable. There is a difference! Certainly, if there are multiple machines and the home console can "automatically" play portable games and vice versa then "what it means to be a handheld or home console" would certainly have changed because this was not the case with Gamecube/GBA, Wii/DS or Wii U/3DS. In that case, Pokemon would come to the home console by default even though it was previously portable exclusive. All this without having a hybrid.

IMO, the possibilities for what NX could be are still open after this interview. Ishihara hasn't confirmed a single hybrid device.
Click to expand...

Thanks for explaining what I was trying to say better than I could.
 
M

maxcriden

Member
I Wanna Be The Guy said:
Right, so the announcement of the reveal is now GUARANTEED for next Tuesday at the latest, right?
Click to expand...

Hopefully, but not definitively. Depending how much notice they give, and it doesn't need to be more than a week (or potentially less), they could announce it later and still reveal it before the investor's briefing.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
I give up. I can't handle this amount of spinning anymore. Enjoy your multiple devices that are no longer what they seem because there are more of them.
 
D

Dark Cloud

Member
maxcriden said:
Hopefully, but not definitively. Depending how much notice they give, and it doesn't need to be more than a week (or potentially less), they could announce it later and still reveal it before the investor's briefing.
Click to expand...
I think it would be nice to be given one week notice. People on YouTube have to get ready for live reactions and some of us (me) want to make sure we can see it live and not be at work lol
 
Link_enfant

Link_enfant

Member
Guys, Nintendo France website seems to be down. Could it be related to an update for a potential NX focused Nintendo Direct?
 
F

Forkball

Member
Mochizuki posted more about his interview with Ishihara. It mentions nothing about the NX, but there are some good quotes.

When Tsunekazu Ishihara first got involved with Pokémon two decades ago, he didn’t expect Pikachu—a chubby yellow mouse with rosy cheeks—to become a global figurehead for the popular game series.

“None of us really thought Pikachu was particularly special,” the chief executive of Pokémon Co. told The Wall Street Journal.
Click to expand...

“The biggest achievement for Pokémon over the last 20 years is that you can go just about anywhere in the world and you will still be able to talk about it,” Mr. Ishihara said. “The next big goal for us is to maintain Pokémon as a part of the culture.”
Click to expand...

Mr. Ishihara said he’s particularly attached to Exeggutor, a character that looks like a coconut tree. Mr. Ishihara said that Exeggutor became his friend while he checked the programming of the game, and together they explored many places within it and captured characters. Mr. Ishihara said he wants to give Exeggutor more of the spotlight.

In the coming 3DS games, titled “Sun” and “Moon,” a new type of Exeggutor with a longer neck will be introduced.

“My dream is finally a reality,” Mr. Ishihara said. “I’m glad to see what Exeggutor has become.”
Click to expand...
 
S

Skittzo0413

Member
Matbtz said:
Corrected.
Click to expand...

To be fair usually announcements come at around 10:00 am EDT, which is in a half hour from now.

Also I think his original post meant if there is an announcement coming today then it will be by 10:00 am. But people shouldn't expect anything anyway. Maybe a leak or two if the retailers event is what we thought it was, but nothing official.

Assume nothing and we'll all be a lot saner.
 
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