Support NeoGAF

[powerdrain]

What drives me CRAZY about Mega Evolutions are the ones that aren't a "third" stage. Like, I enjoy the idea of Megas for Pokémon like Charizard, Blaziken, Venasaur, Gardevoir, etc as well as for some legendaries because legendaries don't evolve like normal. But for Pokémon where they could have just ADDED a second or third REGULAR evolution, I hate it.

I'm another who feels the same way. It was such a massive change to implement in the first place, changing the meta and stuff (not that I'm a competitive player anyway). I really enjoy seeing older monsters get second or third evolutions like we saw in D/P. It really does limit the options for certain 'mon who got awarded a Mega evolution, because it'd be stupid for them to have another evolution if they've already had a 'Mega' version of themselves.

Not to mention the design aspect. Most of them are just outright garish. I wanted to get a Mega Lopunny for Omega Ruby, but I just remembered how bad it looked visually. The whole concept seems to just be make them look as visually busy as possible, and any characteristics they have, like a flower, or a tuft of hair, or a pair of wings - triple it!

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I sort of agree with the statement above re: Megas. They're fine on some Pokemon, like the starters. Nothing additional was going to happen to Venusaur; giving it a special "Burst Mode" is fine by me (although Charizard going two sucks and is just ridiculous favouritism). I'm even okay with some two-stages - Mega-Steelix is fine, Steelix was always rather powerful and it's difficult to see what they could have done with a straight up evolution that wasn't just moving stats around rather than being an actual increase in power.

Some Megas, though, really just piss me of because that line definitely needed another proper evolution and didn't deserve to be shut down like that. The Megas of Kangaskhan, Pinsir, Heracross, Houndoom, Mawile, Medicham, Manectric, Banette, Absol, Abomasnow, Slowbro, Sableye, Sharpedo, Camerupt, Altaria, Glalie, Lopunny, and Audino all would have conceptually worked as just plain evolutions (with lower base stat totals, obviously), and not wasted the potential of these lines - especially considering about half of those Megas aren't even worth using in the first place, meaning that not only are some of these lines useless, they are now *permanently* useless because there is no chance of any extension to that line in the future.

Also, the Mega mechanic as a whole is just not that fun or interesting. You can work out almost immediately whether your opponent is using a Mega, either because a lot of Pokemon with Megas are not that good before Mega-evolving, or because of hold item effects, and for many of them it makes the entire flow of a battle concentrated around the respective Megas on either teams, diminishing the impact of everything else.

Honestly, it can't really be undone now, but it was one of the worst things to be done to the series for a while, to me. If the mechanic had to exist, I'd have preferred it if, I don't know, some Pokemon just automatically triggered to Megas if they hit 1/3rd HP as a kind of Break Limit, and the Pokemon that could do this were more or less restricted to the starter lines, the pseudos, and maybe a few additionals like the Alakazam and Gengar lines.

As it was, it was just given to too many Pokemon that felt like unfinished business.

To add to this I also agree with the post above re: some of the designs being rather garish. This doesn't apply to all, but for example, Mega-Sharpedo is ugly as sin. It's not clever like Mega-Camerupt, where the volcanoes have erupted to create a shaggy camel, it's just a shark with SPIKES, SPIKES EVERYWHERE. I mean, thankfully some of the Megas are great - Kangaskhan, Heracross, Camerupt all come to mind as doing clever twists (that would have been great as simple evolutions!). But then there's Lopunny/Sharpedo tier Megas that visually are just disgusting.

 

[Sandfox]

I sort of agree with the statement above re: Megas. They're fine on some Pokemon, like the starters. Nothing additional was going to happen to Venusaur; giving it a special "Burst Mode" is fine by me (although Charizard going two sucks and is just ridiculous favouritism). I'm even okay with some two-stages - Mega-Steelix is fine, Steelix was always rather powerful and it's difficult to see what they could have done with a straight up evolution that wasn't just moving stats around rather than being an actual increase in power.

Some Megas, though, really just piss me of because that line definitely needed another proper evolution and didn't deserve to be shut down like that. The Megas of Kangaskhan, Pinsir, Heracross, Houndoom, Mawile, Medicham, Manectric, Banette, Absol, Abomasnow, Slowbro, Sableye, Sharpedo, Camerupt, Altaria, Glalie, Lopunny, and Audino all would have conceptually worked as just plain evolutions (with lower base stat totals, obviously), and not wasted the potential of these lines - especially considering about half of those Megas aren't even worth using in the first place, meaning that not only are some of these lines useless, they are now *permanently* useless because there is no chance of any extension to that line in the future.

Also, the Mega mechanic as a whole is just not that fun or interesting. You can work out almost immediately whether your opponent is using a Mega, either because a lot of Pokemon with Megas are not that good before Mega-evolving, or because of hold item effects, and for many of them it makes the entire flow of a battle concentrated around the respective Megas on either teams, diminishing the impact of everything else.

Honestly, it can't really be undone now, but it was one of the worst things to be done to the series for a while, to me. If the mechanic had to exist, I'd have preferred it if, I don't know, some Pokemon just automatically triggered to Megas if they hit 1/3rd HP as a kind of Break Limit, and the Pokemon that could do this were more or less restricted to the starter lines, the pseudos, and maybe a few additionals like the Alakazam and Gengar lines.

Except most Pokemon are dead at the point and they would never get it off. Good luck using Mega Alakazam in that scenario.

 

[Not75Drops]

Yeah, making megas only trigger at below 1/3 health isn't a great idea.. Introducing a major new mechanic that you can't even activate beyond your control isn't good implementation. A lot Pokemon would just faint before evolving since they're pretty weak.At the very least, Zygarde's new ability allows you to use a Focus Sash to hang on and it starts at half of it's HP after transforming.

I also think that most megas are too close to their original designs to really work as proper evolutions. And Megas being used frequently is really no different to certain Pokemon being used on almost every competitve team. The majority of them aren't broken either and have counters so they're not always the turning point of the battle.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Except most Pokemon are dead at the point and they would never get it off. Good luck using Mega Alakazam in that scenario.

I'm just throwing ideas round, hadn't put more than a few seconds thought into it. My main point is just that the current Mega-evolution mechanic is pretty lacklustre itself. If Pokemon have to get to a third HP, then at least you've seen a bit of them - Charizard gets some airing instead of being something you see for all of 2 seconds before someone actually uses the Mega already. I just feel like it they're really unearned - you want it to feel like something absolutely outrageous for Pokemon to go Mega in battle, some sort of "shit be going down", not "oh, it's a Charizard, will go Mega in about 2 secs, cool".

 

[Meffer]

Here's the easiest prediction ever: This is going be one if not the most popular Pokemon games.

I haven't played since Blue and I am seriously considering buying a 3DS after playing Pokemon Go.

Pokemon Go will certainly garner more interest for Sun&Moon.

 

[GoldStarz]

Plenty of people do that if there's a strategy to it otherwise, who cares? It's literally still the same Pokemon more or less. In a game where a mon can be KO'd in as little as two to three turns, you don't really have the time to spare to worry the The Aesthetic™, sorry if that doesn't appeal to you. You can always apply that to yourself as a personal rule.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Plenty of people do that if there's a strategy to it otherwise, who cares? It's literally still the same Pokemon more or less. In a game where a mon can be KO'd in as little as two to three turns, you don't really have the time to spare to worry the The Aesthetic™, sorry if that doesn't appeal to you. You can always apply that to yourself as a personal rule.

I'm saying that the Megalution rule should have worked so that the aesthetic and strategy complemented each other. Whether Pokemon go Mega if they're the last of your six still standing, whether they do it low on HP, whether it works sort of like substitute and you sacrifice half your HP to activate (can still attack etc. same turn) - it can be anything along those lines; but the present version just lacks the "oomph". There has to be a way to make Megas feel meaningful and still have strategic value at the same time. I'm not a professional game designer, I can't tell you exactly what it is; but as a consumer I can tell you what it isn't, and it isn't what's in the games right now.

 

[Violet_0]

what's with the Mega Lopunny hate in here? I like it, visually. Okay, it sort of has a Digimon-esque busy design, but I still count it as an improvement

 

[Diprosalic]

To add to this I also agree with the post above re: some of the designs being rather garish. This doesn't apply to all, but for example, Mega-Sharpedo is ugly as sin. It's not clever like Mega-Camerupt, where the volcanoes have erupted to create a shaggy camel, it's just a shark with SPIKES, SPIKES EVERYWHERE. I mean, thankfully some of the Megas are great - Kangaskhan, Heracross, Camerupt all come to mind as doing clever twists (that would have been great as simple evolutions!). But then there's Lopunny/Sharpedo tier Megas that visually are just disgusting.

i agree, megas look stupid because they can't change them that much as it is not a real evolution so they just put spikes on it or some shit.

most of them are lame and unnecessary.
megas should go and just retconned. give those pokemon proper evos.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

what's with the Mega Lopunny hate in here? I like it, visually. Okay, it sort of has a Digimon-esque busy design, but I still count it as an improvement

Obviously personal preference comes into this, but I have a strong distaste for busier designs. This might because I grew up with gen one, so that shaped my expectation of what a Pokemon "should look like", but I associate Pokemon with relatively simple shapes and colours - they usually have quite organic, soft designs, compared to competitors like Digimon which focus on artificial hard lines, dozens of colours, and no inch of design left unused. That's not to say I'm a genwunner - I think I'd actually settle on either the second or third gen as a favourite if absolutely forced to pick, and I'm marmite towards the fifth gen in that I love half of them and hate half of them - but many (again, not all, some I think are rather clever, like Mega Camerupt, Mega Kangaskhan, and Mega Heracross) of the Megas defy my expectation of what a Pokemon should be. They look really visually inconsistent in terms of design compared to everything else. When I see Mega Sharpedo or Mega Lopunny, it just looks like what someone who didn't really understand the series very well might think was a good concept for a design.

 

[Sandfox]

Yeah, making megas only trigger at below 1/3 health isn't a great idea.. Introducing a major new mechanic that you can't even activate beyond your control isn't good implementation. A lot Pokemon would just faint before evolving since they're pretty weak.

At the very least, Zygarde's new ability allows you to use a Focus Sash to hang on and it starts at half of it's HP after transforming.

Zygarde is also fairly bulky and his ability activates at 50%.

I'm just throwing ideas round, hadn't put more than a few seconds thought into it. My main point is just that the current Mega-evolution mechanic is pretty lacklustre itself. If Pokemon have to get to a third HP, then at least you've seen a bit of them - Charizard gets some airing instead of being something you see for all of 2 seconds before someone actually uses the Mega already. I just feel like it they're really unearned - you want it to feel like something absolutely outrageous for Pokemon to go Mega in battle, some sort of "shit be going down", not "oh, it's a Charizard, will go Mega in about 2 secs, cool".

Prior to mega evolution Charizard wasn't used at all despite it's popularity so I would say this is an improvement lol.

I understand the complaints about Pokemon like Audino still not being good, but at the same time I'm not sure if regular evolution would've changed that. The main reasons why a Pokemon isn't used always comes down to either it being a poor fit for the current meta due to things like typing and/or another Pokemon does the same thing better, like Mega Audino currently suffers due to Cress being a thing.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Mega Lopunny is busy in design? Wat

 

[RomanceDawn]

There is a part of me that fears Pokemon like Banette won't ever get a traditional evolution because of it's Mega but then another part of me feels like if the developers wanted they would drop the mega and just do what ever they want and evolve who ever they want.

In X & Y wasn't there someone in the game who kind of set us up for the possibility that there is another "dimension" just like the one in X and Y but where Mega Pokemon may not exist at all? I assume it was referring to all the older games but it gives me hope.

So far I'm actually happy there hasn't been any Mega Pokemon introduced yet in this game though I feel its only a matter of time.

Redistribute stats so early Generation 1 and 2 Pokemon can aren't totally outclassed by their Gen 4/5/6 counterparts. Looking at Butterfree, Primeape, Pidgeot, Sandslash, Rapidash etc. Give new and awesome abilities that really make the Pokemon work beyond their stats and typical moves and give us some new evolutions of older monsters and I would be super happy.

 

[The Adder]

What drives me CRAZY about Mega Evolutions are the ones that aren't a "third" stage. Like, I enjoy the idea of Megas for Pokémon like Charizard, Blaziken, Venasaur, Gardevoir, etc as well as for some legendaries because legendaries don't evolve like normal. But for Pokémon where they could have just ADDED a second or third REGULAR evolution, I hate it. Absolutely loathe it. Examples of these are Pinsir, Gyrados, Steelix, Camerupt, etc. Like wtf?! If this game were made in the Diamond and Pearl era, most if those would have been different Pokémon altogether. I mean, Mega Camerupt could EASILY be a completely new Pokémon. Also, they killed the chance that it could ever actually have a new evolution in the future because it Mega Evolves.

Just all really sloppy if you ask me.

To an extent, I agree. But some 2nd stage pokemon have a really "final" look to them, and definitely have the stats to match. Gyarados, for example, shouldn't have a 3rd stage. It has a complete design, stats, and the lore behind it allows no place for a new evolution.

Pinsir, however, could have done with an evolution.

 

[NeonZ]

What drives me CRAZY about Mega Evolutions are the ones that aren't a "third" stage. Like, I enjoy the idea of Megas for Pokémon like Charizard, Blaziken, Venasaur, Gardevoir, etc as well as for some legendaries because legendaries don't evolve like normal. But for Pokémon where they could have just ADDED a second or third REGULAR evolution, I hate it. Absolutely loathe it. Examples of these are Pinsir, Gyrados, Steelix, Camerupt, etc. Like wtf?! If this game were made in the Diamond and Pearl era, most if those would have been different Pokémon altogether. I mean, Mega Camerupt could EASILY be a completely new Pokémon. Also, they killed the chance that it could ever actually have a new evolution in the future because it Mega Evolves.

Just all really sloppy if you ask me.

Eviolite's introduction was what killed the chance of new evolutions for them though. As far as mechanics go, there's nothing stopping them from allowing one of these Pokemon to evolve anyway. Every Mega Evo has been given to Pokemon in their final forms, but breaking that silent rule wouldn't really change anything as far as mechanics go. What would change balance even for existing Pokemon once new evolutions are added would be Eviolite. So, the culprit is actually that item introduced before Mega Evolution was ever a thing.

There's literally zero evidence that Eviolite is responsible for the lack of new Cross-Gen evos

There's more against Eviolite than against Mega Evolution at least.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

There is a part of me that fears Pokemon like Banette won't ever get a traditional evolution because of it's Mega but then another part of me feels like if the developers wanted they would drop the mega and just do what ever they want and evolve who ever they want.

In X & Y wasn't there someone in the game who kind of set us up for the possibility that there is another "dimension" just like the one in X and Y but where Mega Pokemon may not exist at all? I assume it was referring to all the older games but it gives me hope.

So far I'm actually happy there hasn't been any Mega Pokemon introduced yet in this game though I feel its only a matter of time.

Redistribute stats so early Generation 1 and 2 Pokemon can aren't totally outclassed by their Gen 4/5/6 counterparts. Looking at Butterfree, Primeape, Pidgeot, Sandslash, Rapidash etc. Give new and awesome abilities that really make the Pokemon work beyond their stats and typical moves and give us some new evolutions of older monsters and I would be super happy.

This is something I'd really like to see. Not just limited to the first gens, but an actual complete and total rebalance of stats across all gens. It's obviously not possible to achieve perfect balance, but at the same time, I'd like it if at least "finished" lines that aren't ever likely to see evolutions could all be approximately relevant.

 

[Molemitts]

I honestly feel like the battle system in Pokemon is mostly fine and that Gamefreak concentrate on changing that too much when they should really be changing up the mainline quest and how that works if they want to create something fresh. It appears Sun and Moon may be doing this to some extent which is why it caught my interest.

I'm not really a fan of mega-evolutuions though, if they were to get rid of them entirely I'd be cool with that. I always felt like they were unnecessary and only in there because they look "cool". Just seemed like complete fanservice to me especially some of the designs.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

Fuck mega evolutions. We should have gotten proper evolutions for older Pokemon instead, along with stat redistribution

Thankfully we haven't seen them in SUMO yet. Leave them behind.

 

[Not75Drops]

Megas seem too popular now to drop anyway. Game Freak probably sees it as removing Pokemon, it's almost certainly not happening.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

Megas seem too popular now to drop anyway. Game Freak probably sees it as removing Pokemon, it's almost certainly not happening.

Speaking of stuff that will never happen: Raichu should be changed to evolve from Dendenne

 

[Angry Chair]

You anti-mega people are crazy, stat redistribution and extra evolutions wouldn't have made pokemon as useful as their megas. The only thing that bothers me is too many good pokemon got megas; I would prefer they were only given to pokemon that aren't used competitively.

 

[Exterminieren]

There is zero chance at all that the series that has taken great pains to ensure 100% compatibility for forms between generations will completely drop Megas.

They're going to be in every game from here on out, and if they're including the mechanics they have no motivation not to include new ones, and all the potential for merchandising and branding they bring with them.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

There is zero chance at all that the series that has taken great pains to ensure 100% compatibility for forms between generations will completely drop Megas.

They're going to be in every game from here on out, and if they're including the mechanics they have no motivation not to include new ones, and all the potential for merchandising and branding they bring with them.

I mean, yeah, they're obviously never going to remove them, I'm just saying that I'd be pretty happy with it in the hypothetical world where they did. One of my least favourite things to happen to the series.

At the very least, I'd like it if they were a *lot* more selective about who they were given to. If they solely ended up with lines that were pretty definitely finished, so stuff in the BST500+ realm, that would be fine. Anything else ought to be given standard evolutions. That, at least, is a more actionable desire for the series.

 

[powerdrain]

what's with the Mega Lopunny hate in here? I like it, visually. Okay, it sort of has a Digimon-esque busy design, but I still count it as an improvement

Her original design was already sexualised and bastardised to all hell by furry artists, but her mega gives her a "bra" and her legs emulate ripped black leggings. A quick Google search yields some very cringeworthy results.

 

[victreeb3l]

Really loving the trainer battle theme from SM.

 

[Nightbird]

So, if we don't have any Gyms, that also means no HM's right?

What if we get a "saddle" key item that we can use for surfing, flying, and riding instead?
And the other HM's would also get replaced by other means

 

[ffdgh]

So, if we don't have any Gyms, that also means no HM's right?

What if we get a "saddle" key item that we can use for surfing, flying, and riding instead?
And the other HM's would also get replaced by other means

Well we have soar for flying...if they bring it back.

 

[Not75Drops]

So, if we don't have any Gyms, that also means no HM's right?

What if we get a "saddle" key item that we can use for surfing, flying, and riding instead?
And the other HM's would also get replaced by other means

Gen V had HMs, even though you didn't need any to beat the game (except for Cut once), they were still there. They could make the useful HMs (Surf, Waterfall, Fly. Strength) TMs.

 

[JoeM86]

Yeah, Serebii says it just shows the starters and makes note that it's the 20th movie. We probably won't get a hint about it until the games are actually out.

There's supposed to be Sun/Moon gameplay on Pokenchi tonight, but we shouldn't really expect much outside a few seconds, if even that.

Pokénchi hasn't shown much of the stuff we know of. Don't get hopes up

 

[Azuran]

What drives me CRAZY about Mega Evolutions are the ones that aren't a "third" stage. Like, I enjoy the idea of Megas for Pokémon like Charizard, Blaziken, Venasaur, Gardevoir, etc as well as for some legendaries because legendaries don't evolve like normal. But for Pokémon where they could have just ADDED a second or third REGULAR evolution, I hate it. Absolutely loathe it. Examples of these are Pinsir, Gyrados, Steelix, Camerupt, etc. Like wtf?! If this game were made in the Diamond and Pearl era, most if those would have been different Pokémon altogether. I mean, Mega Camerupt could EASILY be a completely new Pokémon. Also, they killed the chance that it could ever actually have a new evolution in the future because it Mega Evolves.

Just all really sloppy if you ask me.

All of those Pokemon you mentioned didn't need another evolution. Gyarados already has 540 BST for pete's sake and has been widely considered one of the best Pokemon for a long time.

Furthermore, a normal Pinsir evolution wouldn't be half as good as the insanity that is Mega Pinsir so I'm glad Game Freak went that way. Megas are made with competitve play in mind so I'm they're using it to help Pokemon that need the extra boost instead of giving them another garbage normal evolution that does shit. All the DP cross gen evolutions are pretty much terrible in battles.

A Mawile evolution would have been shit because she wouldn't have gotten access to a 100 BST spread boost in the stats that she needed along with Huge Power. Seeing that Mega Mawile is considered one of the best Pokemon in the metagame, I say GF did the right thing here. Same thing with Sableye.

I'm just throwing ideas round, hadn't put more than a few seconds thought into it. My main point is just that the current Mega-evolution mechanic is pretty lacklustre itself. If Pokemon have to get to a third HP, then at least you've seen a bit of them - Charizard gets some airing instead of being something you see for all of 2 seconds before someone actually uses the Mega already. I just feel like it they're really unearned - you want it to feel like something absolutely outrageous for Pokemon to go Mega in battle, some sort of "shit be going down", not "oh, it's a Charizard, will go Mega in about 2 secs, cool".

Funny you mentioned Charizard considering people tend to delay mega evolving it as much as possible in order to control weather and use it to their advantage. Same with Mawile and Gyarados who rarely mega evolve when they're first sent out in order to retain and abuse Intimidate as much as possible.

Megas add a LOT to battles but people are never going to see their intricacies if they don't bother to use them in a competitive setting where mindgames plays a huge role. Just because little TImmy and half of GAF who has no fucking idea what STAB is abuses the mega evolve button as soon as possible doesn't mean other players do.

It gets irritating seeing people that don't play competitively shit on megas because they don't fit their ideal of what Pokemon is supposed to be. It's obvious Game Freak didn't make Mega Kangaskhan to give a finger to "normal" fans.

 

[GoldStarz]

There's more against Eviolite than against Mega Evolution at least.

There's evidence that prove Mega Evolution is bringing back cross-gen evos then?

How long until Pokenchi airs and gives us nothing new

Spoiler

and people complain about it

?

 

[Neoleo2143]

Funny you mentioned Charizard considering people tend to delay mega evolving it as much as possible in order to control weather and use it to their advantage. Same with Mawile and Gyarados who rarely mega evolve when they're first sent out in order to retain and abuse Intimidate as much as possible.

Megas add a LOT to battles but people are never going to see their intricacies if they don't bother to use them in a competitive setting where mindgames plays a huge role. Just because little TImmy and half of GAF who has no fucking idea what STAB is abuses the mega evolve button as soon as possible doesn't mean other players do.

It gets irritating seeing people that don't play competitively shit on megas because they don't fit their ideal of what Pokemon is supposed to be. It's obvious Game Freak didn't make Mega Kangaskhan to give a finger to "normal" fans.

That being said, some megas are a bit off the power curve. Kangaskhan and Salamence could use a nerf. In that scene, megas that outright change the utility of pokemon are really cool and I love using some other otherwise mediocre pokemon like mega diancie.

Now if Gamefreak would make it really easy to get into competitive, and a lot more people would stop complaining.

 

[Sandfox]

That being said, some megas are a bit off the power curve. Kangaskhan and Salamence could use a nerf. In that scene, megas that outright change the utility of pokemon are really cool and I love using some other otherwise mediocre pokemon like mega diancie.

Now if Gamefreak would make it really easy to get into competitive, and a lot more people would stop complaining.

I would really say it's an issue of difficulty for people as much as it is time.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

I sort of agree with the statement above re: Megas. They're fine on some Pokemon, like the starters. Nothing additional was going to happen to Venusaur; giving it a special "Burst Mode" is fine by me (although Charizard going two sucks and is just ridiculous favouritism). I'm even okay with some two-stages - Mega-Steelix is fine, Steelix was always rather powerful and it's difficult to see what they could have done with a straight up evolution that wasn't just moving stats around rather than being an actual increase in power.

Some Megas, though, really just piss me of because that line definitely needed another proper evolution and didn't deserve to be shut down like that. The Megas of Kangaskhan, Pinsir, Heracross, Houndoom, Mawile, Medicham, Manectric, Banette, Absol, Abomasnow, Slowbro, Sableye, Sharpedo, Camerupt, Altaria, Glalie, Lopunny, and Audino all would have conceptually worked as just plain evolutions (with lower base stat totals, obviously), and not wasted the potential of these lines - especially considering about half of those Megas aren't even worth using in the first place, meaning that not only are some of these lines useless, they are now *permanently* useless because there is no chance of any extension to that line in the future.

Also, the Mega mechanic as a whole is just not that fun or interesting. You can work out almost immediately whether your opponent is using a Mega, either because a lot of Pokemon with Megas are not that good before Mega-evolving, or because of hold item effects, and for many of them it makes the entire flow of a battle concentrated around the respective Megas on either teams, diminishing the impact of everything else.

Honestly, it can't really be undone now, but it was one of the worst things to be done to the series for a while, to me. If the mechanic had to exist, I'd have preferred it if, I don't know, some Pokemon just automatically triggered to Megas if they hit 1/3rd HP as a kind of Break Limit, and the Pokemon that could do this were more or less restricted to the starter lines, the pseudos, and maybe a few additionals like the Alakazam and Gengar lines.

As it was, it was just given to too many Pokemon that felt like unfinished business.

To be honest, they tried a mechanic like this in Gen V. with Darmanitan, and a while a lot of people were excited to to try it out, it just didn't work.

I would actually like to see them give Darmanitan access to his second form through mega evolution so we could properly try it out in battle.

There is a part of me that fears Pokemon like Banette won't ever get a traditional evolution because of it's Mega but then another part of me feels like if the developers wanted they would drop the mega and just do what ever they want and evolve who ever they want.

In X & Y wasn't there someone in the game who kind of set us up for the possibility that there is another "dimension" just like the one in X and Y but where Mega Pokemon may not exist at all? I assume it was referring to all the older games but it gives me hope.

So far I'm actually happy there hasn't been any Mega Pokemon introduced yet in this game though I feel its only a matter of time.

Redistribute stats so early Generation 1 and 2 Pokemon can aren't totally outclassed by their Gen 4/5/6 counterparts. Looking at Butterfree, Primeape, Pidgeot, Sandslash, Rapidash etc. Give new and awesome abilities that really make the Pokemon work beyond their stats and typical moves and give us some new evolutions of older monsters and I would be super happy.

Those pokemon were never that good competitively, even in Gen 1.

Not to mention there are lots of Gen 1/2 pokemon still used regularly: Gyarados, Starmie, Tyranitar, Chansey, Blissey etc...

Scizor is one of the most popular pokemon used today and it was introduced in Gen. 2. Most players even prefer to use it over it's mega form because the power boost didn't really make up for the lost item slot.

 

[Clefargle]

Remember, when people dislike Pokemon designs:

Busy
Lazy
Iterative
Bland

When they do like them:

Sharp
Unique
Fresh

Ugh, just say you don't like them and move on. Stop acting like you're some sort of art critic just because you think it's ugly.

 

[ColtraineGF]

Don't forget "overdesigned". Because that's a thing somehow.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

It gets irritating seeing people that don't play competitively shit on megas because they don't fit their ideal of what Pokemon is supposed to be. It's obvious Game Freak didn't make Mega Kangaskhan to give a finger to "normal" fans.

I play competitively, as Firestorm knows. I've made some pretty long posts on GAF defending competitive play before. Nevertheless, I can still be concerned about the feel/aesthetics/sentiment of the games - it's why I've criticized IVs for the longest time, as well natures (at least in their current form), despite understanding precisely why they work the way they do.

Secondly, some Megas could have just been straight up evolutions. Mega Mawile, with exactly the same stats and abilities, could have been an ordinary evolution. That would have been fine.

And no, people really do not conserve Mawile that much. Mawile is not tanky enough in base form to take enough hits for you to switch in and out to build up Intimidate, that's absolute bullshit and makes me doubt you actually do play competitive Pokemon at any kind of reasonable level. Mawile is like the definition of press Mega and go.

 

[Neoleo2143]

I would really say it's an issue of difficulty for people as much as it is time.

Pre gamemode Time investment is a difficulty to investment in a gamemode. Competitive pokemon is literally one of the coolest multiplayer games ever. I even hold it to the same level as high level card games. You have the build composition from games like Diablo mixed with a relatively simple system built on mindgames, like all the great multiplayer games. The fact that the games themselves have such a immediately high entry barrier pains my soul because most people won't be able to experience how absolutely wonderful and insane the depth of that realm is.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Remember, when people dislike Pokemon designs:

Busy
Lazy
Iterative
Bland

When they do like them:

Sharp
Unique
Fresh

Ugh, just say you don't like them and move on. Stop acting like you're some sort of art critic just because you think it's ugly.

This is also total bullshit. People don't just find things ugly, there are normally reasons why they find things ugly, and so they attempt to describe those reasons to you. That's not "trying to be an art critic", or whatever, it's saying "Y qualities make X look ugly to me, I would expect any future designs with Y qualities also to look bad"; which is immensely more useful in terms of commentary than just "X is ugly", which tells you nothing about why someone thinks that.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

To be honest, they tried a mechanic like this in Gen V. with Darmanitan, and a while a lot of people were excited to to try it out, it just didn't work.

yeah, as I said, I was just throwing out ideas. I don't know how you'd do it, but it needs to be something that carries some sort of cost to it - it needs to feel like a big and weighty strategic decision to make that generates a sort of "daaamn" sentiment. At the moment, because you can MegaEvolve and do something in the same turn, and there's only a very small pool of Pokemon for which it is debatable whether the Megalution is better or not, there's very little weight to using them. You see a Mawile? They're going to Megavolve it, pretty much no questions asked, and they're going to do it straight away, and there are no real costs attached to the act of Megavolving. It just feels... like such a let down.

You want it to feel like the classic "animu protagonist power-up", akin to how Goku usually only goes Super Saiyan after getting the crap kicked out of him; you want it to be the catharsis after tension. Not entirely sure how you'd do that, but there has to be something better than the current set-up, which is just Mega and go.

I agree Darmanitan is pretty good evidence a simple low HP trigger probably isn't it, though. Maybe, I don't know, some sort of auto-faint after X amount of moves if a Pokemon goes Mega? Sort of a self-Perish Song? It's an implicit buff to the tankier ones, though, I guess...

 

[Not75Drops]

How long until Pokenchi airs and gives us nothing new

Spoiler

and people complain about it

?

About 5 minutes, though people don't seem to care anymore. There's really no point in watching it.

 

[Neoleo2143]

yeah, as I said, I was just throwing out ideas. I don't know how you'd do it, but it needs to be something that carries some sort of cost to it - it needs to feel like a big and weighty strategic decision to make that generates a sort of "daaamn" sentiment. At the moment, because you can MegaEvolve and do something in the same turn, and there's only a very small pool of Pokemon for which it is debatable whether the Megalution is better or not, there's very little weight to using them. You see a Mawile? They're going to Megavolve it, pretty much no questions asked, and they're going to do it straight away, and there are no real costs attached to the act of Megavolving. It just feels... like such a let down.

You want it to feel like the classic "animu protagonist power-up", akin to how Goku usually only goes Super Saiyan after getting the crap kicked out of him; you want it to be the catharsis after tension. Not entirely sure how you'd do that, but there has to be something better than the current set-up, which is just Mega and go.

I agree Darmanitan is pretty good evidence a simple low HP trigger probably isn't it, though. Maybe, I don't know, some sort of auto-faint after X amount of moves if a Pokemon goes Mega? Sort of a self-Perish Song? It's an implicit buff to the tankier ones, though, I guess...

Well third times the charm? I do think this synchro idea that can increase any pokemon stats could potentially be interesting based on the rumors that it unlocks a buff of sorts either in stats or a move because it's a much more flexible option than something like megaevolution assuming its not limited to one pokemon. It could happen to any pokemon and thus the mindgames are maintained. Assuming any pokemon could use it to some extent.

It seems that Zygarde got the anime power up right though, the HP buff allows it to stay alive.

 

[Nightbird]

Don't forget "overdesigned". Because that's a thing somehow.

Y'all forgetting about the best one: "looks like a Digimon"

Which is funny because this is the Guy looks the most like a Digimon out of all Pokémon

 

[Siege.exe]

yeah, as I said, I was just throwing out ideas. I don't know how you'd do it, but it needs to be something that carries some sort of cost to it - it needs to feel like a big and weighty strategic decision to make that generates a sort of "daaamn" sentiment. At the moment, because you can MegaEvolve and do something in the same turn, and there's only a very small pool of Pokemon for which it is debatable whether the Megalution is better or not, there's very little weight to using them. You see a Mawile? They're going to Megavolve it, pretty much no questions asked, and they're going to do it straight away, and there are no real costs attached to the act of Megavolving. It just feels... like such a let down.

You want it to feel like the classic "animu protagonist power-up", akin to how Goku usually only goes Super Saiyan after getting the crap kicked out of him; you want it to be the catharsis after tension. Not entirely sure how you'd do that, but there has to be something better than the current set-up, which is just Mega and go.

I agree Darmanitan is pretty good evidence a simple low HP trigger probably isn't it, though. Maybe, I don't know, some sort of auto-faint after X amount of moves if a Pokemon goes Mega? Sort of a self-Perish Song? It's an implicit buff to the tankier ones, though, I guess...

I'd say there's strategic weight in not being able to use other hold items in exchange for being able to mega evolve. I think they're fine the way they are, I don't see why there needs to be some dramatic condition fulfillment to justify their existence. They're not a panic button that gets smashed at the last second when things go bad, nor have they ever been depicted as such, and putting them on a timer would be really lame.

 

[Charlie0108]

Hopefully Pokenchi will show some new footage and not just what was in the trailer last week, anything new would be cool, I love just seeing anything from this game

Edit: Nevermind, apparently they teased the trailer footage.

 

[Clefargle]

This is also total bullshit. People don't just find things ugly, there are normally reasons why they find things ugly, and so they attempt to describe those reasons to you. That's not "trying to be an art critic", or whatever, it's saying "Y qualities make X look ugly to me, I would expect any future designs with Y qualities also to look bad"; which is immensely more useful in terms of commentary than just "X is ugly", which tells you nothing about why someone thinks that.

Nice hypothesis, except all the data we have on human gut reaction and preference is counter to that. Research shows that people mostly make a split decision about whether or not they like something (art, design, colors) and then post-hoc rationalize the "reasons" afterward. If you don't like something, just say so. More specifically I have a problem with people trying to create a narrative about Pokemon designs they don't like compared to the ones they remember fondly. People whining about "busy" designs in current gens when there were plenty of 1st or 2nd gen designs that would qualify too. Or people saying that current Pokemon designs are lazy such as Klinklang because it's multiple pre evolved forms slapped together while conveniently forgetting magneton or Dugtrio. Silliness

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Nice hypothesis, except all the data we have on human gut reaction and preference is counter to that. Research shows that people mostly make a split decision about whether or not they like something (art, design, colors) and then post-hoc rationalize the "reasons" afterward. If you don't like something, just say so. More specifically I have a problem with people trying to create a narrative about Pokemon designs they don't like compared to the ones they remember fondly. People whining about "busy" designs in current gens when there were plenty of 1st or 2nd gen designs that would qualify too. Or people saying that current Pokemon designs are lazy such as Klinklang because it's multiple pre evolved forms slapped together while conveniently forgetting magneton or Dugtrio. Silliness

So: yes, people make split-second decisions. However, unless these decisions are entirely random, in which case our aesthetic preferences would show absolutely no consistency (and they do), there are still reasons for us making these decisions, even if we don't consciously consider those reasons when making our decisions - they're not processed at the forefront of our thoughts. That means that post-hoc rationalization is not just randomly selecting some possible reason after the fact, it's actually working out approximately what considerations are taken into your split-second decisions.

Secondly, there are plenty of Pokemon from Gen 1 and 2 I think are boring. Again, Gen 3 is probably my favourite despite having grown up with Gen 1. Assigning particular statements to me I've not actually said in some kind of boring strawman is just tedious. If you're so far up Gamefreak's arse you can't actually have any kind of conversation about design without flinging strawmen all over the place and assuming that everyone loves Magneton, I don't know why you're in a discussion forum, aimed at you know, discussion.

 

[Charlie0108]

Yep, Pokenchi just showed the trailer again. Oh well. Probably about two weeks until the next news dump I imagine.

 

[Clefargle]

So: yes, people make split-second decisions. However, unless these decisions are entirely random, in which case our aesthetic preferences would show absolutely no consistency (and they do), there are still reasons for us making these decisions, even if we don't consciously consider those reasons when making our decisions - they're not processed at the forefront of our thoughts. That means that post-hoc rationalization is not just randomly selecting some possible reason after the fact, it's actually working out approximately what considerations are taken into your split-second decisions.

Secondly, there are plenty of Pokemon from Gen 1 and 2 I think are boring. Again, Gen 3 is probably my favourite despite having grown up with Gen 1. Assigning particular statements to me I've not actually said in some kind of boring strawman is just tedious. If you're so far up Gamefreak's arse you can't actually have any kind of conversation about design without flinging strawmen all over the place and assuming that everyone loves Magneton, I don't know why you're in a discussion forum, aimed at you know, discussion.

I believe I used the term "people" not "you". So, no straw man here, just talking about what I've witnessed over the years here and other places. Like I was saying, I dislike it when people try to build a narrative about game freak "running out of ideas" whenever they have any designs that resemble objects or look like similar species to previous mons when they've been doing that since forever.


I don't think you actually get my complaint, which is leading to some confusion on your part. There certainly are Pokemon designs I don't care for, and I can articulate why I don't like them. The problem comes when people use nebulous qualifiers like the ones I mentioned (lazy, overdesigned, busy, ect...) Without actually saying what they have issues with. If you don't like certain aspects of specific Pokemon designs, say so. People shouldn't use vague terms to critique designs just because people don't like them at first glance, take the time to look into the source material and see what the inspiration was before knee jerking. If you don't like graveler, then by all means submit a few paragraphs on why you don't like the little rocky edges they added or the way they designed his eyes or something substantive. Because when you do that you can have an actual, you know, discussion.