RastaMentality
Banned
The HFC is gonna be the deciding group in all of their legislation aren't they? the tea party still holding this much clout.
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT2| Well, maybe McMaster isn't a traitor.
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Because they never cared about actual policy. They care about fucking over brown people and they trusted Trump to do just that.
There's a reason he coached all his statements on everything in blatant racism. It's because that's what the Tea Party cares about.
SneakersSO
Member
They'd at least be able to discuss ideas or understand the legislative process, as opposed to Trump who made unrealistic promises regarding health care (that neither Rubio or Kasich would've done) or allowed Ryan to craft the entire thing without any input from their team, thus ensuring the lose-lose situation Paul Ryan's health care bill has currently put the GOP in (much to the delight of the left).
Heck, you still see it at the rallies Trump hosts. You keep seeing anchors interview these people, and all of them are shitting on Trump when it comes to the budget & healthcare, but they are still ranting & cheering because of the border wall & travel ban. It's almost like his cratering approval rating won't affect GOP come 2018 if he manages to get the wall started or the travel ban put in, even if he gets the budget & AHCA passed, thus eviscerating the counties who most voted for him.
The realization that these rural voters will continue to support Trump as he destroys their economic interests even further as long as he continues to make life more difficult for black/brown people is probably one of the most messed up realizations i've had about this country in a long time.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
It's not a prediction though. There are a lot of factors at play and the dominant ones here are that the Freedom Caucus cannot be compromised with (because all they want is full repeal), Trump is not good at his job, and neither is Ryan. There is no Nancy Pelosi down there to crack heads, threaten people, etc.
Ask yourself this: can you name anyone in Washington who is championing this bill outside of Trump, Pence, and Ryan?
Life comes at you fast
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
So I guess the biggest question is why many of the Freedom Caucus are such ideologically pure conservatives to an extreme on a policy level when the voters that put them in power are decidedly not ideologically driven in that way.
I'd say it's the money influence that is a big part of the astro turf roots of the tea party, but that's something that clearly cannot be done on the left, because that money who wants to block everything that's not single payer doesn't exist.
Because they're ideologues that believe they have a silent majority, just like the far left.
They're people who have been whining and complaining from the outside their whole careers and have no idea how to actually govern.
Vestal
Gold Member
Can I get a side of Curlys, and maybe a strudel?
SneakersSO
Member
Not just that - Trump doesn't actually have to sell the damn thing to begin with; all he needs to do is assure the holdouts that he'd stump for them in their states come election season in 2018. It's actually one of Trump's biggest weapons - he can rally and energize his base, and doing so for people who are supporting him in the house, and Trump prefers to do rallies instead of actually working in the White House. Trump just doesn't know his own value when it comes to politics, which is actually a great thing - I would be petrified if we ever got a scenario where there was a GOP political presence with the showmanship of Trump without the ignorance & ineptitude.
excelsiorlef
Member
Because the Freedom Caucasus are actually pure ideologues, they don't give a fuck what their voters want... they have a very specific vision for what "freedom" and "liberty" is and they won't compromise on any of it.
Following this pretty closely as I worked fairly extensively on ACA efforts in Washington the past five years...
I think Ryan will pull the vote to allow time for more sweetners to be added to the bill, but at this point, I don't know if it will make a difference. I also find it ironic that the Tea Party could wind up being the deciding factor in maintaining "Obamacare".
I think Ryan will pull the vote to allow time for more sweetners to be added to the bill, but at this point, I don't know if it will make a difference. I also find it ironic that the Tea Party could wind up being the deciding factor in maintaining "Obamacare".
Likely because they realized Trump will sign anything. He's not in charge of legislation, they are. If they brought repeal to his desk he'd sign it. Its why he's coming out in support of this bill 100%, he doesn't understand it and doesn't care to. It's Ryan who let them down, and they are likely not surprised.
Beer Monkey
Member
If indictments drop re: Trump's staff and Russia they are going to have an even harder time getting anything big passed.
Officerrob
Banned
If this fails in the House (I think it passes), how long before Bannon starts calling for Ryan's head?
shinra-bansho
Member
Are the Freedom Caucus voters and panhandle/miner racist poors actually even the same voters.
They got behind the R in the general because they like to win unlike the loser left.
They got behind the R in the general because they like to win unlike the loser left.
I also don't think it's a coincidence Paul Ryan had such high praise for Trump today by saying he "hit it out of the park".
He's trying to put the ball back in his court, er maybe I should say field, and knows if it fails, it's Trump's failed negotiations and not his ability as Speaker.
He's trying to put the ball back in his court, er maybe I should say field, and knows if it fails, it's Trump's failed negotiations and not his ability as Speaker.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
TBH I'm not even sure that's leverage. He's already sub 40% approval (Gallup), what's he going to be at next summer? Furthermore those districts are facing a lot of opposition from old white people on Obamacare...how are they going to react if Trump comes to town next fall bragging about eliminating their healthcare and patting their congressman on the back? Seems like that would hurt them more than help.
One of the biggest reasons this bill is facing so much opposition is because many older republican voters are on Medicaid, and will lose their coverage if it passes.
Yup. The attack ads aimed at older white retirees write themselves.
Just listened to the latest Pod save America. Knew nothing about Jon Ossoff before this but nearly spat out my drink when they said he's younger than them. Could have told me he was in his 60's, he does not talk
and sound like a guy who just turned 30 last month lol.
Public flogging of Paul Ryan.
and sound like a guy who just turned 30 last month lol.
Public flogging of Paul Ryan.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Posted the special elections thread, hope it turned out okay.
How long until Gorsuch is withdrawn?
Haha, I nominated you, but also fuck you.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'm advising my dad to get his money out of his stocks. Everything's up right now, and I've got this nervous feeling in my gut after the G20 stuff
W/ Article 50 coming up I don't think you're wrong.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Eh, they'd probably be in a better position to at least put some pressure on the Freedom Caucus. Trump's disastrous approval ratings means that any threat of retaliation from him is toothless; he's got jack shit for a base that's loyal to him specifically, whereas I bet Rubio or Kasich would at least be in the mid to high 40s right now.
Because the officials are actually ideologues, while their base is made up of racists. The main thing that gets Steve King re-elected is not his stance on economic policy, but the fact that he's a guy from a northern state that fought for the Union and he's still toting a Confederate flag around and keeps them in his photo ops. (I.E. it ain't about Southern Heritage (tm) if you're from Iowa, it's just white nationalism).
If you poll rural Mississippi about single payer healthcare, you'll be surprised to know it's really popular! On paper, that is. Try to implement it and all it takes is one highly racially charged attack ad (pictures of black people in Jackson timed to show up when they use words like "freeloaders" and whatnot) and suddenly all that support just vanishes.
The right has a problem with racists picking idiotic candidates who are shameless enough to encourage their beliefs. Our only issue is our crazies are more into anti-vax conspiracies and really naive positions on foreign policy. It's not nearly as bad as them, but I'm hesitant to jump both feet first into a Green Tea Party movement.
It's you!
You always show up when interesting things are happening.
I think there will be a vote... not sure if it passes the House or not.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Can you imagine the legislation we could get if the GOP just said "screw you Freedom Caucus" and just started making bills with the Democrats
You know
Like an actual working government system
You know
Like an actual working government system
neurosisxeno
Member
It won't pass. More sweeteners will ensure the HFC is against it entirely and that means Republicans can't pass it. I think it goes back to committee and then dies a slow death. Without Democrats or the HFC they cannot get anything passed. The odds of Democrats--even from Red States--voting for any variation of the AHCA are literally nonexistent, and most Republicans ran on "Repeal and Replace" which means they can't do a straight Repeal which is what the HFC wants.
If you listen to Conservative Media they hate the AHCA. They rail against the fact that it still holds on to the "fundamentals" of the ACA, and how it does nothing to address the price of Premiums or high Deductibles. They're not wrong at all, the AHCA is a joke of a bill that basically just purges 20-30m people from having Health Care, and does nothing to help improve the quality of care for people that actually have Health Insurance.
I was thinking of doing the same. Between the anti-Trade mentality and the Trump Administration literally shitting all over its allies, I don't see the markets staying this high for long--especially once some of these international companies start making big deals with new trade allies in Europe/China/India.
whyamihere
Banned
Reporting from everyone's favorite House District - PA 197!
Currently write ins are dominating, 94% to 6%. That means that the Dem or Green candidate won, but we have no idea what the write ins say until later. No idea when.
Currently write ins are dominating, 94% to 6%. That means that the Dem or Green candidate won, but we have no idea what the write ins say until later. No idea when.
neurosisxeno
Member
Vladimir Putin with 90% of the vote.
I don't want to get my hopes up because, well, Republicans, but I wonder what our politics looks like come Thursday if Ryan is forced to pull the bill or AHCA comes to a vote and doesn't pass.
Somehow, I doubt congressman will be met with overwhelming public outrage over sparing 20 million people from losing their healthcare. In fact, I predict that there will be much cheering.
So then what happens? The threat of Trump busted as congressman realize that they can oppose him and live to tell the tale? The curtain gets pulled back on Paul Ryan and he finally loses his undeserved wonkish mystique?
And if both of these things happen? What happens to Trump and Russia? If the Republicans in congress lose their fear of Trump...
Somehow, I doubt congressman will be met with overwhelming public outrage over sparing 20 million people from losing their healthcare. In fact, I predict that there will be much cheering.
So then what happens? The threat of Trump busted as congressman realize that they can oppose him and live to tell the tale? The curtain gets pulled back on Paul Ryan and he finally loses his undeserved wonkish mystique?
And if both of these things happen? What happens to Trump and Russia? If the Republicans in congress lose their fear of Trump...
Here's some confirmation bias for you (from a conservative!).
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000591733
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Where are you seeing the results for this?
I mean the dudes name is StockMan so knowing stocks is obv his super power.
neurosisxeno
Member
Just heard on NPR the vote is planned for Thursday. I expect them to back out when Thursday rolls around. The buzz has only gotten worse that they don't have the votes. The only reason I can think of for them holding a vote is to act as a Party Purity Test, to try and shame Republicans that won't fall in line.
You take that back, when Ted Cruz plays sports ball he lobs the sphere into the ring like a pro.
neurosisxeno
Member
That must be demoralizing for a Republican candidate...
I'm kind of fascinated by the semantics game tbe Trump Administration is playing with NASA right now -- defining the core mossion of NASA as one that is mutually exclusive to exploration, and if not opposed, it's implied that earth sciences is not its mission, knowing well that EPA, NOAA and Interior Department funding for climate sciences is going to be cut. The spin on social media is ridiculous.
lmao
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
There's also city council elections for the new city of South Fulton in Georgia and a BLM organizer/DSA member/Our Revolution candidate named khalid kamau is currently winning a seat with 60% of the vote in. That's pretty cool.
This is great news. Georgia needs to be a big target going forward.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
That is really cool to hear.
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