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PoliGAF 2017 |OT6| Made this thread during Harvey because the ratings would be higher

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Uh, Le Pen was worse.

There were other people running throughout the election if that option was a deal breaker. At the end of the day, an investment banker of Macron's ilk isn't going to do what's best for the country. We could reasonably assume that before the fact and clearly see what a disappointment he's been after the fact.

Macron's chief concern is going out of his way to help his friends at society's expense. That's how these kinds of people operate. Groups like unions, students and the poor are under attack. Macron is going after them much like critics argued he would. And what makes him so intellectually dishonest is that he's hiding behind the facade that this about making tough choices to make everyone better off which is a lie. It's about screwing people by design and more people are woke to what's so crystal clear.
 
Love NYT but they’re trying really hard to hang Harvey Weinstein as some sort of albatross around the Democratic party’s neck. I honestly don’t get what they’re going for here. Nobody’s defending him, politicians are returning or redirecting his donations, and he has nothing to do with the party outside of funding. Truly one of the strangest “both sides” I’ve seen from a major outlet.
 
Bankers can't be good people.

its-a-wonderful-life-bailey-family-05.jpg


You take that back.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
My office has a ton of conservatives in it, they frequently complain about Kaepernick kneeling or BLM blocking traffic as “protesting the wrong.”

Yesterday a conviy of truckers for a few hours to protest electronic log books. A lot of people in my office were talking about. Making plans to take other routes home.Not one person mentioned they were inconvinienced by this or that it was the “wrong way to protest” by blocking traffic 🤔🤔

Guess no one cares about Nana Ruth anymore! (RIP)
 
My office has a ton of conservatives in it, they frequently complain about Kaepernick kneeling or BLM blocking traffic as “protesting the wrong.”

Yesterday a conviy of truckers for a few hours to protest electronic log books. A lot of people in my office were talking about. Making plans to take other routes home.Not one person mentioned they were inconvinienced by this or that it was the “wrong way to protest” by blocking traffic 🤔🤔

Guess no one cares about Nana Ruth anymore! (RIP)

Well, yeah, they get more upset about peacefully kneeling than they do Nazi's marching through their streets. You won't hear a unsolicited peep about them unless they kill someone, and even then it becomes an attempt at "well, both sides...".
 
My office has a ton of conservatives in it, they frequently complain about Kaepernick kneeling or BLM blocking traffic as ”protesting the wrong."

Yesterday a conviy of truckers for a few hours to protest electronic log books. A lot of people in my office were talking about. Making plans to take other routes home.Not one person mentioned they were inconvinienced by this or that it was the ”wrong way to protest" by blocking traffic ����

Guess no one cares about Nana Ruth anymore! (RIP)
yup.

and if it was a white evangelical kneeling in the NFL in memorial of aborted babies, i guarantee the right would be singing his praises.

it's never been about the method of protest.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
There were other people running throughout the election if that option was a deal breaker. At the end of the day, an investment banker of Macron's ilk isn't going to do what's best for the country. We could reasonably assume that before the fact and clearly see what a disappointment he's been after the fact.

Macron's chief concern is going out of his way to help his friends at society's expense. That's how these kinds of people operate. Groups like unions, students and the poor are under attack. Macron is going after them much like critics argued he would. And what makes him so intellectually dishonest is that he's hiding behind the facade that this about making tough choices to make everyone better off which is a lie. It's about screwing people by design and more people are woke to what's so crystal clear.

I see you morphing back
 

Ogodei

Member
Silicon Valley is definitely corporatist Democrat on the whole, there are just a few people in high places who are Dark Enlightenment or Objectivist knob-jobs, as well as a few proper Ancap types.

The two California districts that house Silicon Valley are both solidly Dem *and* two of the fastest-trending Dem districts in the country.
 

kirblar

Member
My office has a ton of conservatives in it, they frequently complain about Kaepernick kneeling or BLM blocking traffic as “protesting the wrong.”

Yesterday a conviy of truckers for a few hours to protest electronic log books. A lot of people in my office were talking about. Making plans to take other routes home.Not one person mentioned they were inconvinienced by this or that it was the “wrong way to protest” by blocking traffic 🤔🤔

Guess no one cares about Nana Ruth anymore! (RIP)
Yeah, if you have an issue with protests on highway due to safety reasons (i.e., squishies shouldn't be on highways),you should have an issue with this for the same reason (deliberately slow traffic is a safety hazard.)

The double standard is obvious. I'm glad the cops were pulling them over for this.
 
I've heard rumors that OK Democrats think they have an outside shot at OK-5, which includes most of Oklahoma City. Trump only won 53% of the vote, far lower than Romney's 67%. With a PVI of R+10, the district would likely be on the outer fringes of a wave, and I've seen no evidence that the incumbent intends to retire. Still, the recent success in flipping state seats - most of them in the OKC area - seems to have raised their hopes.
 

DTC

Member
Not sure where this myth of libertarian Silicon Valley comes from. They're very, very left with the exception of business regulations. Business regulations is a big one, but they're very fond of taxing the wealthy more to fund social programs such as universal healthcare and services for the poor. It's unfortunate that they typically aren't for more regulations, but I'm not expecting democrats to check every single "left" box -- people are allowed to vote democrat without believing everything I want them to.

Proof: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/technology/silicon-valley-politics.html
 

wutwutwut

Member
Not sure where this myth of libertarian Silicon Valley comes from. They're very, very left with the exception of business regulations. Business regulations is a big one, but they're very fond of taxing the wealthy more to fund social programs such as universal healthcare and services for the poor. It's unfortunate that they typically aren't for more regulations, but I'm not expecting democrats to check every single "left" box -- people are allowed to vote democrat without believing everything I want them to.

Proof: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/technology/silicon-valley-politics.html
To be precise, they believe that redistribution and regulations are different means to achieve the same ends, and that redistribution is better in many ways.
 
There were other people running throughout the election if that option was a deal breaker. At the end of the day, an investment banker of Macron's ilk isn't going to do what's best for the country. We could reasonably assume that before the fact and clearly see what a disappointment he's been after the fact.

Macron's chief concern is going out of his way to help his friends at society's expense. That's how these kinds of people operate. Groups like unions, students and the poor are under attack. Macron is going after them much like critics argued he would. And what makes him so intellectually dishonest is that he's hiding behind the facade that this about making tough choices to make everyone better off which is a lie. It's about screwing people by design and more people are woke to what's so crystal clear.

Your options on Election Day were Macron and Le Pen. Le Pen was worse. Do you disagree?
 

wutwutwut

Member
There were other people running throughout the election if that option was a deal breaker. At the end of the day, an investment banker of Macron's ilk isn't going to do what's best for the country. We could reasonably assume that before the fact and clearly see what a disappointment he's been after the fact.

Macron's chief concern is going out of his way to help his friends at society's expense. That's how these kinds of people operate. Groups like unions, students and the poor are under attack. Macron is going after them much like critics argued he would. And what makes him so intellectually dishonest is that he's hiding behind the facade that this about making tough choices to make everyone better off which is a lie. It's about screwing people by design and more people are woke to what's so crystal clear.
I fully support French unions being under attack.
 
I've heard rumors that OK Democrats think they have an outside shot at OK-5, which includes most of Oklahoma City. Trump only won 53% of the vote, far lower than Romney's 67%. With a PVI of R+10, the district would likely be on the outer fringes of a wave, and I've seen no evidence that the incumbent intends to retire. Still, the recent success in flipping state seats - most of them in the OKC area - seems to have raised their hopes.
It’d be interesting if we saw a kind of Dem resurgence in states where they haven’t been competitive at all in the last ten years. Oklahoma is likely seeing as how it seems to be in a similar place as Kansas, where electing right-wing politicians for life is finally starting to catch up with them.

Not that I imagine the Democrats who were able to win the governor’s races or state legislative seats before Obama were particularly liberal, but seeing as how the defining issue between each party now seems to be “do you want the government to be adequately funded or not” they were probably still a great deal better than the cut-to-the-bone-and-then-cut-the-bone-in-half Republicans. And that’s an issue most voters will recognize.

Wouldn’t expect us to flip the OK House or anything at this point but building the party up to a more respectable minority there and in other states where Dems have lost serious ground (WV for example?) would be a good step.
 

kirblar

Member
Areas like WV are going to be a problem because you're trying to build on an eroding foundation.

Kansas is a completely self-inflicted wound. Their economy should not be suffering like it is.
 
Areas like WV are going to be a problem because you're trying to build on an eroding foundation.

Kansas is a completely self-inflicted wound. Their economy should not be suffering like it is.
That's true I suppose. Probably easier to build up in a state like Kansas where affluent Republicans are starting to get pissed off than a state like WV where there's a bunch of conservative Democrats, who every year continue to get more conservative and shittier.
 
Not sure where this myth of libertarian Silicon Valley comes from. They're very, very left with the exception of business regulations. Business regulations is a big one, but they're very fond of taxing the wealthy more to fund social programs such as universal healthcare and services for the poor. It's unfortunate that they typically aren't for more regulations, but I'm not expecting democrats to check every single "left" box -- people are allowed to vote democrat without believing everything I want them to.

Proof: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/technology/silicon-valley-politics.html

Mostly it comes from looking at what they actually produce. Invasive advertizing built on creepy surveillance, regressive social networks that are designed to turn people into pure capitalist batteries and overpriced juicers.

Seriously how can people in Silicon Valley look at the current state of this country and legit think "You know what this world needs? Another fucking mattress company!"

It's an incredibly insular, non-diverse, community that quickly amassed enormous power. Even in the best case scenario, with people who set out with the best intentions, that is a recipe for disaster. The basic tenants of how our society communicates was completely refashioned by a bunch of white dudes. That's why they never even began to consider how to handle harassment or manipulation. It never occurred to them.

Silicon Valley is a prime example of how social structures matter more than individual beliefs. Yes, if you poll people, on an individual basis, their answers will tick plenty of the "left boxes", but if you plug them back into the machine, the things that they actually produce diverge pretty wildly. The money that drives things and the way that decisions are made matters more than the individual.

The reason why Twitter and Facebook are so reticent to confront the fact that a huge portion of their users are actually bots armies is because, in a way, bots are their ideal users. Easy to understand and easy to monetize.

At least Wall Street is more honest about what they do. (And again, if you polled Wall Street employees, you would get results that check more of those "left boxes" than their output would imply.) Both Wall Street and Silicon Valley are driven by the same motivations, the only difference is that Silicon Valley deluded themselves into thinking that their new tracking cookie is nobly changing the world.

Palmer Luckey was not an outlier. There is a reason why he was immediately welcomed into that community with open arms even though he had no qualifications. There is a reason why the douchelord who wrote that Google diversity memo felt safe sharing those opinions with his peers. There is a reason why that memo circulated Google for weeks and there is a reason why Google only acted on it when it became public.
 

Ogodei

Member
West Virginia I feel like is permanently lost until the electorate gives up the ghost on coal. It's very easy, and perhaps even partially true, to blame their current economic malaise on Democrats and environmentalism (obviously larger forces at work against coal, but the market for it would probably be better today than otherwise if not for the EPA).

Other states that are less of an economic monoculture you can see a swing based on GOP fuckups, as we witnessed in Louisiana.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Also on the subject of the fucking NYT, they just shit out this: Hoping to Have Trump Cleared, Legal Team Eases Resistance to Inquiry

This is some Axios-level mouthpiece bullshit. The White House is using the Times to work the refs and the Times is happily complicit in it. The article is completely news-free. It's only purpose is to carry water for Trump's lawyers.

Some of this is likely editorial calibration to ease the appearance of bias. NYT has rarely had to report on a more fundamentally evil and incompetent government.

Also what if mueller was a plant to clear trump after months of believable investigation? Hmm?

I mean he’s not but interesting to think about since he was actually activated by the trump administration in a roundabout way.
 

wutwutwut

Member
Mostly it comes from looking at what they actually produce. Invasive advertizing built on creepy surveillance, regressive social networks that are designed to turn people into pure capitalist batteries and overpriced juicers.

Seriously how can people in Silicon Valley look at the current state of this country and legit think "You know what this world needs? Another fucking mattress company!"
A freebie for the next time you're representing the left in a debate: juicers are a better target than mattress companies. Better sleep leads to much happier people. (This is on top of the inherent gains to everyone in busting rent-seekers like existing mattress companies.)

It's an incredibly insular, non-diverse
"Insular" isn't a good descriptor given how many immigrants SV has. Though SV is diverse in some ways but not in others.
community that quickly amassed enormous power. Even in the best case scenario, with people who set out with the best intentions, that is a recipe for disaster.
If your argument is that concentration of power is bad, then I hope you uniformly apply it to all concentrations of power. Where's your post praising Macron for busting French unions?

The basic tenants of how our society communicates was completely refashioned by a bunch of white dudes. That's why they never even began to consider how to handle harassment or manipulation. It never occurred to them.
Finally a good point! I agree that a more diverse SV would have thought of these problems sooner.

Silicon Valley is a prime example of how social structures matter more than individual beliefs. Yes, if you poll people, on an individual basis, their answers will tick plenty of the "left boxes", but if you plug them back into the machine, the things that they actually produce diverge pretty wildly. The money that drives things and the way that decisions are made matters more than the individual.

At least Wall Street is more honest about what they do. (And again, if you polled Wall Street employees, you would get results that check more of those "left boxes" than their output would imply.) Both Wall Street and Silicon Valley are driven by the same motivations, the only difference is that Silicon Valley deluded themselves into thinking that their new tracking cookie is nobly changing the world.
Everyone is driven by the same motivations. Motivations are not the same as outcomes. I have very little tolerance for leftist thought that doesn't recognize that people are fundamentally driven by greed.

Palmer Luckey was not an outlier. There is a reason why he was immediately welcomed into that community with open arms even though he had no qualifications. There is a reason why the douchelord who wrote that Google diversity memo felt safe sharing those opinions with his peers. There is a reason why that memo circulated Google for weeks and there is a reason why Google only acted on it when it became public.
Earlier you at least acknowledged that a community is composed of individuals. Now you fall into the lazy "a community is a hivemind" trap. Do you really think there wasn't pushback within Google well before the memo became public?
 
A freebie for the next time you're representing the left in a debate: juicers are a better target than mattress companies. Better sleep leads to much happier people. (This is on top of the inherent gains to everyone in busting rent-seekers like existing mattress companies.)

Hope you don't mind, but I'm not going to take you up on that freebie. I think the insaine proliferation of identical mattress companies is a pretty great summation of Silicon Valley's myopia.

"Insular" isn't a good descriptor given how many immigrants SV has. Though SV is diverse in some ways but not in others.

Insular is a fine description of SV. It is a few companies and a few VCs that are making all of the decisions. immigrants are rarely in positions of power in these companies (this is changing) and even then it's only immigrants from a few areas. It's definitely insular.

If your argument is that concentration of power is bad, then I hope you uniformly apply it to all concentrations of power. Where's your post praising Macron for busting French unions?

A little more nuanced than that. My argument is that concentrations of power are always going to happen, so we need to be sure that the structures we create, both corporate and social account for that. I don't comment much on French politics because I don't like talking about things I don't know about. I have a very surface level view of French politics.

Finally a good point! I agree that a more diverse SV would have thought of these problems sooner.

Cool. I would quibble and say that SV's disposition doesn;t just put them late to the game dealing with misogynists and Nazis, it actually makes it impossible.

Everyone is driven by the same motivations. Motivations are not the same as outcomes. I have very little tolerance for leftist thought that doesn't recognize that people are fundamentally driven by greed.

My whole point is that motivations don't equal outcomes. Other factors matter more. So I think we should judge SV not by how it answers poll questions, but instead by what it's actually producing!

Earlier you at least acknowledged that a community is composed of individuals. Now you fall into the lazy "a community is a hivemind" trap. Do you really think there wasn't pushback within Google well before the memo became public?

Of course there was pushback, but not by Google's leadership. They didn't do anything substantial until their bottom line was threatened by the publicity. The leadership was not concerned by the memo itself, only by the widespread knowledge of it's existence.

The community is not a hivemind! I never said that!. I said that structures and leadership often overrules individual moral stances. The myth of the liberal SV that I am pushing back against is more of a hivemind argument. A reflexive stereotyping of an entire industry that people seem to constantly fall back on.

For the last 15 years SV has taken the lead in refashioning our social order. During that time things have gotten completely fucked up. (So fucked up that I would argue that Democracy is impossible under the current conditions.) They are building the world in their image and I think it's appropriate to criticize their output.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Broadly speaking I really like about 40% of startup culture and genuinely loathe the other 60% and the investment culture it is fused at the waist with. This is from someone who is, by most metrics, a "reasonably" successful startup founder who's reasonably active in various startup social scenes.

There's a lot of companies out there with what they think are genuinely useful ideas people will find value in. There are also a lot of companies just blind firing to try and get in on the money and a lot of companies like Juicero that are basically scams. And yes, the former get much easier to find the further from SV you get
 

pigeon

Banned
When I worked for a startup in SOMA, there was one day when I was coming back from lunch where there was a sandwich truck out front of WeWork. The weird thing was that the sandwiches were apparently free.

It turned out the truck was sponsored by Trinet HR, and they were giving out free sandwiches along with business cards. The business card said that if I recommended them a startup founder who ended up hiring them as their third-party HR provider I would receive a $20 Starbucks gift card.

Years later, this remains the most iconic image of Silicon Valley in my mind. I think it sums up a lot of the problems, and maybe some of the positives.
 

kirblar

Member
Hope you don't mind, but I'm not going to take you up on that freebie. I think the insaine proliferation of identical mattress companies is a pretty great summation of Silicon Valley's myopia.
This and other complaints about "too many deoderant options" completely miss the point of competition. People are free to start up their own business if they believe they see opportunities to do things better. Having a range of options available to consumers is a good thing, not a bad thing. Many ideas will fail, and that's ok! Bad ideas failing is a good thing. Good ones sometimes will too, but often someone else will come along and pick that torch back up. But some will succeed, and the ability to let people go and try to disrupt existing markets with new ideas, iterations, and products is one of the major reasons why Capitalism is so good at driving economic growth.

Complaining about "too many options" is silly. In MTG, some cards are for casual players, some for tourney players, some for newbies to help em learn. Figuring out that "not every card is for you" is an important part of understanding the game's design, and the same thing applies to markets. Not every product is for you.
 
This and other complaints about "too many deoderant options" completely miss the point of competition. People are free to start up their own business if they believe they see opportunities to do things better. Having a range of options available to consumers is a good thing, not a bad thing. Many ideas will fail, and that's ok! Bad ideas failing is a good thing. Good ones sometimes will too, but often someone else will come along and pick that torch back up. But some will succeed, and the ability to let people go and try to disrupt existing markets with new ideas, iterations, and products is one of the major reasons why Capitalism is so good at driving economic growth.

Complaining about "too many options" is silly. In MTG, some cards are for casual players, some for tourney players, some for newbies to help em learn. Figuring out that "not every card is for you" is an important part of understanding the game's design, and the same thing applies to markets. Not every product is for you.

It's less of a complaint about options and more of a complaint about the allocation of VC funding. Also the deodorant companies don't all market themselves with gauzy platitudes about how they're changing the world.
 
Trump just threatened North Korea with war again...
Oh well.
6hJgUd1.png



Remember how Trump voters argued that they are not voting for Hillary because she is a "hawk" and would lead us to war?
 
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 9m9 minutes ago

Presidents and their administrations have been talking to North Korea for 25 years, agreements made and massive amounts of money paid......

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 4m4 minutes ago

...hasn't worked, agreements violated before the ink was dry, makings fools of U.S. negotiators. Sorry, but only one thing will work!
 
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