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[BotoxAgent]

Hillary is really sounding more and more pathetic. Since the facts and reality are so against her, she seems to have no choice but to just try to downplay and laugh everything off.:lol

 

[theBishop]

Bill defending the Bosnia thing
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24065937#24065937

Absolutely stupid. She didn't "misspeak" at 11 at night because she's old. That's the weakest spin yet

Does he explain how she is going to answer the red crisis phone at 3AM when she completely loses touch with reality at 11PM?

 

[Farmboy]

Bill defending the Bosnia thing
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24065937#24065937

Absolutely stupid. She didn't "misspeak" at 11 at night because she's old. That's the weakest spin yet

Astonishingly stupid, yes. Not just because he's dredging up a story that had pretty much run its course, but especially because, in doing so, he 'misspeaks' several times (as Jonathan Martin points out). Hard to say how it plays out, but it's entirely possible that the media will have another field day with this.

EDIT: YouTube version now available. Digg in.

 

[thekad]

<insert conspiracy theory here>
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

Christ.

 

[electricpirate]

scorcho: Obama's whole spiel is that he wants to please everyone; I'm not particularly shocked he's backing away from a major platform of his foreign policy in order to pacify special interests.

Of course not talking to Hamas since they aren't actually a state gov. has been his policy from the start, but don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[tanod]

Several years afterward, does anyone really know why the exit polls and the results were so different?

If I had to guess, it would be because some of the ads about changing presidents in the middle of the war really scared some people. Then, when it came time to vote, they didn't want to admit that they gave in. [/conspiracy theory]

My wife always talks about her gut and she said that there just wasn't that gut feeling that Kerry was going to be a good president so she voted for Bush.

She says she has that same feeling abuot Obama but I keep reminding her that there's no reason for her to have to have a bad gut feeling when everything she wants to know about him is out there for her to figure out.

 

[Tamanon]

If I had to guess, it would be because some of the ads about changing presidents in the middle of the war really scared some people. Then, when it came time to vote, they didn't want to admit that they gave in. [/conspiracy theory]

My wife always talks about her gut and she said that there just wasn't that gut feeling that Kerry was going to be a good president so she voted for Bush.

She says she has that same feeling abuot Obama but I keep reminding her that there's no reason for her to have to have a bad gut feeling when everything she wants to know about him is out there for her to figure out.

Plus point out to her that her gut didn't really serve things well last time

 

[tanod]

Plus point out to her that her gut didn't really serve things well last time

No kidding. November 2004 was a tough time in the Tanod household.

Wow, my wife and I have been together for over 4 years. Just realized that. I was thinking it was only 3.

 

[Bowser]

Plus point out to her that her gut didn't really serve things well last time

I was gonna come and post the same thing, heh.

 

[Tamanon]

But make sure you say it in a way that she doesn't think you're calling her fat!

 

[StoOgE]

has anyone thought if these walmart board meeting tapes for sale might have Hillary on them?

 

[Tamanon]

has anyone thought if these walmart board meeting tapes for sale might have Hillary on them?

I dunno, there's already footage of her extolling the virtues of Walmart at press conferences from back in the day.

 

[gkryhewy]

My wife always talks about her gut and she said that there just wasn't that gut feeling that Kerry was going to be a good president so she voted for Bush.

EPIC, epic fail.

 

[grandjedi6]

If I had to guess, it would be because some of the ads about changing presidents in the middle of the war really scared some people. Then, when it came time to vote, they didn't want to admit that they gave in. [/conspiracy theory]

My wife always talks about her gut and she said that there just wasn't that gut feeling that Kerry was going to be a good president so she voted for Bush.

She says she has that same feeling abuot Obama but I keep reminding her that there's no reason for her to have to have a bad gut feeling when everything she wants to know about him is out there for her to figure out.

Maybe your wife is a secret conservative

 

[tanod]

Maybe your wife is a secret conservative

No, she IS a social conservative so she tends to lean Republican. She's a registered independent though, and she hates John McCain. <3

I'm a social progressive / economic moderate with a libertarian streak. I'm a registered Democrat who loves politics.

We have a divided household. Makes life/marriage interesting.

 

[APF]

Of course not talking to Hamas since they aren't actually a state gov. has been his policy from the start

That has little to do with his policy of speaking to enemies, nor does it have anything to do with his stated reasons for refusing to speak to Hamas, as given in the linked post--but don't let facts stand in your way of spinning for your guy, buddy.

 

[grandjedi6]

No, she IS a social conservative so she tends to lean Republican. She's a registered independent though, and she hates John McCain. <3

I'm a social progressive / economic moderate with a libertarian streak. I'm a registered Democrat who loves politics.

We have a divided household. Makes life/marriage interesting.

That means your wife was a horrible example of why the polling was different from the results, as she was likely to vote for Bush anyway

 

[Farmboy]

That has little to do with his policy of speaking to enemies

Yes, it does. Obama's position has always been that he is "willing to meet with the leaders of all nations, friend and foe." Whether or not you agree with his reasoning wrt Hamas or not, this isn't a flip-flop on his part.

 

[Tamanon]

Don't bother, he's not your buddy, guy.

 

[tanod]

That means your wife was a horrible example of why the polling was different from the results, as she was likely to vote for Bush anyway

I wasn't using my wife as an example. It was a separate (but related to the 2004 election) story.

 

[tanod]

Yes, it does. Obama's position has always been that he is "willing to meet with the leaders of all nations, friend and foe." Whether or not you agree with his reasoning wrt Hamas or not, this isn't a flip-flop on his part.

An insight into the anatomy of a conversation with APF:
APF: blah blah blah you said this
Innocent poster: Show me where I said that.
APF: No, you show me something else that I never said!
Innocent poster: WTF?
APF: You're a hypocrite.
Innocent poster: WTF? You're a hypocrite.
APF: Blah blah blah....so you admit you're a hypocrite.
Innocent poster: You're a troll
APF: quit trolling you hypocrite.
etc., etc., etc.

...

They never learn.

 

[Tamanon]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/11/877410.aspx

The Los Angeles Times: "Flush with payments from well-funded campaigns, the ward leaders and Democratic Party bosses typically spread out the cash in the days before the election, handing $10, $20 and $50 bills to the foot soldiers and loyalists who make up the party's workforce. It is all legal -- but Obama's people are telling the local bosses he won't pay. That sets up a culture clash, pitting a candidate who promises to transform American politics against the realities of a local political system important to his presidential hopes.&#8221;

&#8220;Obama's posture confounds neighborhood political leaders sympathetic to his cause. They caution that if the senator from Illinois withholds money that gubernatorial, mayoral and presidential candidates have willingly paid out for decades, there could be defections to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York. And the Clinton campaign, in contrast, will oblige in forking over the money, these ward leaders predict."

More: "Neither the Clinton nor the Obama campaign would say publicly whether it would comply with Philadelphia's street money customs. But an Obama aide said Thursday that it had never been the campaign's practice to make such payments. Rather, the campaign's focus is to recruit new people drawn to Obama's message, the aide said.&#8221;

It is kinda weird to pay out for a Get Out the Vote effort. I know they had that setup in South Carolina also.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

WOW@McCain saying he wouldn't take preemptive invasion off the table if the U.S. was to engage in another war. :lol

 

[Tamanon]

WOW@McCain saying he wouldn't take preemptive invasion off the table if the U.S. was to engage in another war. :lol

Well, we had to go in Iraq before they came over to us!

The scariest thing is that Bush actually already has authority to go into Iran, since the Quds were declared a terrorist organization by Congress. I wonder if that was Lieberman's plan the whole time

 

[Farmboy]

It is kinda weird to pay out for a Get Out the Vote effort. I know they had that setup in South Carolina also.

That is a strange tradition, and the threat that these folks might defect to Hillary strikes me as odd: their loyalty can (quite literally) change on the flip of a coin?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Well, we had to go in Iraq before they came over to us!

The scariest thing is that Bush actually already has authority to go into Iran, since the Quds were declared a terrorist organization by Congress. I wonder if that was Lieberman's plan the whole time

So when do we invade Cuba, Syria, Lebanon, and North Korea?

 

[GhaleonEB]

 

[tanod]

HAWT!

Can't wait until Obama officially has this locked up and we can move on to the McCain/Obama polls.

 

[scorcho]

Yes, it does. Obama's position has always been that he is "willing to meet with the leaders of all nations, friend and foe." Whether or not you agree with his reasoning wrt Hamas or not, this isn't a flip-flop on his part.

it's an artful distinction that doesn't fully explain his particular stance on Hamas. whether or not they are 'leaders' of a 'nation' doesn't exclude the fact that Hamas' support, tacit or not, is needed in any lasting solution between Palestine and Israel.

yeah, it's an intractable situation, but pretending they don't matter isn't and hasn't helped.

 

[siamesedreamer]

Coming from a woman who was giving less than 1% of her $200,000+ income to charity:

"The truth is, in order to get things like universal health care and a revamped education system, then someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more."

Nice...

 

[Tamanon]

Coming from a woman who was giving less than 1% of her $200,000+ income to charity:



Nice...

Um, she would be one of the ones paying more of the pie considering they're talking about raising taxes on the rich.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Coming from a woman who was giving less than 1% of her $200,000+ income to charity:

Nice...

But SM remember, hypocrisy doesn't matter as long as your heart is in the right place!

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

lulz at Hillary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGeQ6dxGMFA

Good lord! almost creepy..

 

[Cheebs]

HAWT!

Can't wait until Obama officially has this locked up and we can move on to the McCain/Obama polls.

Why wait?

 

[Tamanon]

Good lord that's a persistent poll.:lol

 

[APF]

Plus Hamas as a party really is a leader of a "nation," so....

 

[siamesedreamer]

Sen. Barack Obama credits his presidential campaign with creating a "parallel public financing system" built on a wave of modest donations from homemakers and high school teachers. Small givers, he said at a fundraiser this week, "will have as much access and influence over the course and direction of our campaign that has traditionally been reserved for the wealthy and the powerful."

But those with wealth and power also have played a critical role in creating Obama's record-breaking fundraising machine, and their generosity has earned them a prominent voice in shaping his campaign. Seventy-nine "bundlers," five of them billionaires, have tapped their personal networks to raise at least $200,000 each. They have helped the campaign recruit more than 27,000 donors to write checks for $2,300, the maximum allowed. Donors who have given more than $200 account for about half of Obama's total haul, which stands at nearly $240 million.

Washington Post

Change America Can Believe In!!!

 

[Tamanon]

Washington Post

Change America Can Believe In!!!

Yeah, we already discussed that earlier this week, even had a spinoff thread where minus_273 was banned.

 

[siamesedreamer]

Sorry...been out of the loop the last few days.

What was the thread?

 

[XxenobladerxX]

never mind

 

[Tamanon]

Sorry...been out of the loop the last few days.

What was the thread?

I know it was tough to find with a search for Obama public financing.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275080&highlight=obama+public+financing

 

[Cheebs]

Washington Post

Change America Can Believe In!!!

Look at this way.

Option 1: Have a day or two of slightly negative press but raise 2-3x as much money as McCain

Option 2: Stay with a pledge no one paid attention to and throw away your huge money advantage.


Which would you pick?

 

[Funky Papa]

Looks like Obama's streak continues.

 

[tanod]

Looks like Obama's streak continues.

That puts him at two weeks of statistically significant ownage.

 

[schuelma]

Look at this way.

Option 1: Have a day or two of slightly negative press but raise 2-3x as much money as McCain

Option 2: Stay with a pledge no one paid attention to and throw away your huge money advantage.


Which would you pick?

It's amazing how many here don't mind playing the political game when its to their candidates advantage.

 

[maynerd]

Sorry...been out of the loop the last few years.

Fixed

 

[terrene]

That "definition" from Wikipedia is incredibly vapid, and yes there have been plenty of those stories from her term as Secretary of State--fairly well popularized, despite your ignorance of their existence.

Neither of the above statements are substantiated or, in my opinion, accurate. But fine, here's a long-winded version of the same idea:

Although neo-cons profess devotion to liberal democracy, they have never hesitated to assail "liberalism", or what they sometimes call with their Christian Right allies "secular humanism", whose relativism, in their view, can lead to "a culture of appeasement", nihilism or worse. Thus, even while supposedly defending "liberal" and democratic ideals, their attitude is at best ambivalent.

Appeasement is prevented, in their view, by a powerful military capable of defeating any foe, the constant anticipation of new threats, and the willingness to preempt them. Thus, neo-cons have consistently favored big defense budgets, a stance shared by the right-wing machtpolitikers with whom they formed an alliance in the 1970s to end detente with Moscow. In their view, peace is to be distrusted, and peace processes are inherently suspect. "Peace doesn't come from a 'process'," wrote Wall Street Journal editorial writer Robert Pollock last year in a column that denounced the 1990s as a "decade of appeasement".

In this view, war is a natural state, and peace is a Utopian dream which induces softness, decadence and pacifism embodied by Bill Clinton whose "corruption of the national mission, combined with the myth that peace is normal, produces a solvent strong enough to dissolve the strength of our armed forces and the integrity of our political and military leaders", Ledeen wrote in 2000.

Similarly, enemies cannot be negotiated with. "Before the US can worry about rebuilding Iraq, it has to win militarily, and decisively so," the Journal wrote just before the war. "... Arab cultures despise weakness in an adversary above all," a refrain familiar to past neo-con descriptions of the Soviet Union, China, and other geo-political foes.

Finally, US engagement in world affairs is absolutely indispensable in preventing catastrophe, according to neo-con ideology which, in the words of another Perle intimate, Ken Adelman, sees "isolationism [as] the default option" in US foreign policy. Indeed, many neo-cons, fearing that the Cold War's end would revive isolationism, spent most of the 1990s hawking policies designed to maintain Washington's international engagement, even if that meant supporting Clinton when he deployed troops abroad.

Why? If evil is embodied by Hitler and similar threats, the United States comes as close to moral goodness as can be found in the world today, according to the neo-cons. "Since America's emergence as a world power roughly a century ago," Elliott Abrams, another prominent neo-con who currently serves as the top Middle East policymaker on Bush's National Security Council, wrote in a Commentary colloquium in 2000, "we have made many errors, but we have been the greatest force for good among the nations of the Earth. A diminution of American power or influence bodes ill for our country, our friends, and our principles".

Thus, US intervention abroad, as in Iraq, is seen in the best possible light. Michael Kelly, a Washington Post columnist who died in an accident during the Iraq campaign, assured his readers last October that, "what President Bush aspires to now, is not exactly imperialism. It is something more like armed evangelism".

The moral goodness of the US is beyond question and justifies — indeed requires — a unilateralist policy lest, by subjecting its will to the wishes or agreements of other countries or international institutions, the US would actually prevent itself from fulfilling its moral mission.

Absolutely the same. This definition, written by Jim Lobe, only outmatches the shorter one that I quoted in giving context and a psychological profile to help explain it.

And it is absolutely in line with Condi's work for the last 7 years. We all know the results of her and Bush's foreign policies, but why should that hold any water against political columns about Rice's unhappiness, none of which I can find or you have linked to? The most I've ever seen on the issue is that she is primarily a careerist and a "Bush loyalist" above any ideology at all, but given the position she finds herself in and the results we've seen I'm inclined to think actions speak louder than gossip.

 

[gkryhewy]

But SM remember, hypocrisy doesn't matter as long as your heart is in the right place!

Way to bust out the conservative talking points. Will you switch your allegiance from Shrillary to McCain in the general so that you can remain contrarian?

 

[Cheebs]

It's amazing how many here don't mind playing the political game when its to their candidates advantage.

I have nothing against dirty politics. You do what is needed to win.

 

[APF]

terrene: lol at your sources. As for Condi, read any of the analyses of the interdepartmental scuffles going on re: Iran, for example.