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Polygon: How Dark Souls II will make life even harder

mrpeabody

Member
Invaded while hollow is very worrisome. The games are hard enough without some asshole busting in to gank you for free every five minutes. Offline, with no messages and no death ghosts, just isn't the same.

I love From and I have faith they will make it work. But I gotta read reviews on this one.
 
^ I am so glad you are not on the Dark Souls creative staff. Yikes.

LOL damn.

I do however wish to God they would get rid of Hollow form. I hate that zombie bullshit, I'm fine with them penalizing you for dying by dropping HP and stuff but can my character still look like my character, at least?

It's not like in this version of the game there's even an advantage to Hollow form (no invasions), so I would have been perfectly fine with it getting sacked.
 

SargerusBR

I love Pokken!
Tanimura recently got interviewed by 4gamer regarding servers and invasions, the interview is in Japanese however, would really appreciate if someone could translate it. There is also some footage from the beta.

But apparently this is the info Tanimura revealed:

- Servers are worldwide, no cross-platform.
- There is an in-game method to avoid invasions.
- Invaders don't have a time limit.
- Invaders can use estus flask on the beta, unconfirmed if this will be the same on launch.
- Three covenants revealed:
Way of Blue, Guardians of Blue and Brethen of Blood, the latter being an invasion covenant.
- There will be a area similar to the
Painted World



http://www.4gamer.net/games/196/G019662/20130919001/
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Weak. ENB am cry
 

fraktur

Member
- Servers are worldwide, no cross-platform.
- There is an in-game method to avoid invasions.
- Invaders don't have a time limit.
- Invaders can use estus flask on the beta, unconfirmed if this will be the same on launch.
- Three covenants revealed:
Way of Blue, Guardians of Blue and Brethen of Blood, the latter being an invasion covenant.
- There will be a area similar to the
Painted World



http://www.4gamer.net/games/196/G019662/20130919001/
i like it.
 

NewGame

Banned
I would love to see a co-op mode ala blue phantoms but with local split screen.

Not part of the RPG single player of course, but more like an obstacle course time trial type thing you unlock when you beat the boss of each world.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
Doesn't sound like you even need offline.

Why would you want it to be easier anyway? First one wasn't even that hard.
People have gotta stop saying this. Yes, some people are gods and didn't find the game that difficult. Most consider it a hell of a challenge, though.
 
Aaaaand everyone can breathe again.

I hope it's a ring so you are punished for avoiding half the game.

or a spell, you have to cast every 5 minutes.

Why would a player put up with being nerfed to avoid invasions when they can just go off-line? There needs to be an actual benefit to losing a ring slot or running a power instead of something else. Of course if you can do that while in co-op and not be invaded I can see people using it but in situations where they would have been hollow and safe otherwise? Don't think so when off-line is available.

I'm interested to see what they come up with. A covenant solution just for coop players that cant be invaded would be perfect so I'm not expecting that.
 

Skab

Member
People have gotta stop saying this. Yes, some people are gods and didn't find the game that difficult. Most consider it a hell of a challenge, though.

I'm far from a god at the game. And I never said it wasn't challenging. The game just has a rep for being this incredibly hard monster of a game, when it isn't. It's just a game that requires patience.

THAT seems to be the hard part for most people.

That sounds like a personal opinion, in either case, the option to go offline will keep everyone happy.

I was talking about how we just learned there is an item to prevent invasions.
 

luca1980

Banned
Doesn't sound like you even need offline.

Why would you want it to be easier anyway? First one wasn't even that hard.
actually i play games offline...

my thought is that for offline mode these changes in gameplay really are not relevant...

aside for half hp lol
 
I'm far from a god at the game. And I never said it wasn't challenging. The game just has a rep for being this incredibly hard monster of a game, when it isn't. It's just a game that requires patience.

THAT seems to be the hard part for most people.

This. The tension also comes from being punished so hard when you die. The game itself is not that difficult once you get comfortable with the controls.
 

2AdEPT

Member
Nah, new threads are always better. We just need a complete translation to make sure we're not missing out on anything good.
Ok PM me when you start a new one, I'm on my phone and have trouble finding the thread.

I seem to have gotten bit by a craving for souls, and all this talk about it is making me Jones big time. Guess I will go back to my bows only character tonight....sounds like these will be more pronounced and viable in DS2.
 
Aaaaand everyone can breathe again.

I hope it's a ring so you are punished for avoiding half the game.

One of the things the was so stupid in Dark souls was human form. Your supposed to make being a human an advantage like in Demons souls where you get twice the HP, and certain events can only be achieved by dying in human form.

In an ideal world people playing offline should be penalised with half HP but a ring slot would be okay too.

Tanimura recently got interviewed by 4gamer regarding servers and invasions, the interview is in Japanese however, would really appreciate if someone could translate it. There is also some footage from the beta.

But apparently this is the info Tanimura revealed:

- Servers are worldwide, no cross-platform.
- There is an in-game method to avoid invasions.
- Invaders don't have a time limit.
- Invaders can use estus flask on the beta, unconfirmed if this will be the same on launch.
- Three covenants revealed:
Way of Blue, Guardians of Blue and Brethen of Blood, the latter being an invasion covenant.
- There will be a area similar to the
Painted World



http://www.4gamer.net/games/196/G019662/20130919001/


I predict a lot of rage from Dark Soul players lol. One of the things that made PvP fights last so long in DeS is because your opponent could heal so quickly, so you had to make sure you had enough stamina to be aggressive and finish them off.

Estus recovery probably takes much longer than grassing so its fine. This will make fighting gankers even easier, as you no longer have to use humanity which you had to farm and would take quite some time to use.
 

Shengar

Member
Tanimura recently got interviewed by 4gamer regarding servers and invasions, the interview is in Japanese however, would really appreciate if someone could translate it. There is also some footage from the beta.

But apparently this is the info Tanimura revealed:

- Servers are worldwide, no cross-platform.
- There is an in-game method to avoid invasions.
- Invaders don't have a time limit.
- Invaders can use estus flask on the beta, unconfirmed if this will be the same on launch.
- Three covenants revealed:
Way of Blue, Guardians of Blue and Brethen of Blood, the latter being an invasion covenant.
- There will be a area similar to the
Painted World



http://www.4gamer.net/games/196/G019662/20130919001/
Does that mean all players from various region would be able to meet each other regardless of region unlike those region-locked Demon's Souls server?
Lol
thats because it IS the Painted World, before it fell into ruin

Was obvious a long time ago.
So, we will meet little Priscilla there too right?
 
I predict a lot of rage from Dark Soul players lol. One of the things that made PvP fights last so long in DeS is because your opponent could heal so quickly, so you had to make sure you had enough stamina to be aggressive and finish them off.

Estus recovery probably takes much longer than grassing so its fine. This will make fighting gankers even easier, as you no longer have to use humanity which you had to farm and would take quite some time to use.
At least in Dark Souls 1 you can throw Lloyd's Talismans to the invaded player to prevent him from healing. There's probably an item like that in DS2.
 

DaciaJC

Gold Member
I do however wish to God they would get rid of Hollow form. I hate that zombie bullshit, I'm fine with them penalizing you for dying by dropping HP and stuff but can my character still look like my character, at least?

Yes, this would be nice. I was constantly exhausting my Humanities reverse-Hollowing just so my character actually looked normal.
 

RK9039

Member
Brethren of Blood aka Darkwraith... ohhhh sheeeeet.

But you miss out on all the awesome floor writing :(
Part of my favorite part of the game is seeing other's hints or traps.

Really dislike this being able to be invaded while hallow.

It's certainly going to make things tougher. I also liked playing Hollow/Soul form from time to time, but in the end people wanted a "harder" sequel and I think this is one way of doing that. It appears that this game is meant to focus much more on multiplayer, I'm okay with that because it allows more covenants to exist. I agree with ENB when he said it's a design flaw, regarding the Hollow system, there shouldn't be any incentives to playing dead. I like that change.

I also like that you lose your max HP when you die. A bit of Demon's Souls.

220.gif
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Agility stat that increases movement and dodge speed. Existing stats being retooled, such as Dexterity making bleeding/poison more effective.

Hopefully this also means that Strength will make swinging the heavy weapons faster.
 

nbthedude

Member
LOL damn.

I do however wish to God they would get rid of Hollow form. I hate that zombie bullshit, I'm fine with them penalizing you for dying by dropping HP and stuff but can my character still look like my character, at least?

It's not like in this version of the game there's even an advantage to Hollow form (no invasions), so I would have been perfectly fine with it getting sacked.
But you usually have helemts and armor on. I often forget whether I am hollow or human.
 
Man oh man. I need full steamworks confirmation for my hype to go through the roof. I am big on PVP and I love that this game seems to be making it a bigger part and thanks to dedicated servers it should be a lot less janky than Dark Souls. This game has my favorite combat system I'm just looking forward to getting hate mail again.
 

2AdEPT

Member
this needs a demo. for everyone imho.
I will cry with this game anyway seeing my hp fall with each death

This is part of the in-game training...you're not supposed to like losing your max HP....what to do?

A.) go slower, more methodologically
B.) no clue what to do? Hire help!
 
But you usually have helemts and armor on. I often forget whether I am hollow or human.

Yeah, I don't wear a helmet in Demon's or Dark in most cases. Don't use a shield either.

It's just people that want to ogle the hot girl character they painstakingly designed, lol.
I like the zombie stuff. Better than the see through thing from Demon's.

Actually, my typical create-a-character is a guy. I just like making a cool looking character and having them stay the way I made them. If I'd wanted a zombie I would have made a zombie. XD

Again, I'm fine with punishment for death, I just with your character's appearance wasn't one of the punishments.
 

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
Yeah, I don't wear a helmet in Demon's or Dark in most cases. Don't use a shield either.



Actually, my typical create-a-character is a guy. I just like making a cool looking character and having them stay the way I made them. If I'd wanted a zombie I would have made a zombie. XD

Again, I'm fine with punishment for death, I just with your character's appearance wasn't one of the punishments.
You'd probably die less (and thus be a zombie less often) if you actually used a helm and shield.
 

B-Genius

Unconfirmed Member
Nah, new threads are always better. We just need a complete translation to make sure we're not missing out on anything good.

I'll refrain from making a new thread (as there's nothing too substantial here), but I picked up a couple of things I either hadn't seen mentioned elsewhere, or otherwise where info may have been fuzzy. For anyone who's interested/missed it:

  • If another player rates a message you've written, your health will replenish (like in Demon's).
  • Dieing while in Hollow form will not halve your HP, but will reduce your max HP with each successive death (going no lower than half of your original max HP).
  • Too many consecutive deaths will cause your character's appearance to deteriorate (hair falling out, etc.)
  • The idea of having small and large soapstones (determining time the summoned player can stay with the host) was to try and discourage players just leaving their signs either at the beginning of an area or at the boss door. E.g. maybe there's one tough enemy half-way through the level, which a quick summon would be useful for.
And a quick and dirty translation of the interview:
---
4Gamer
The difficulty seemed pretty high in the network test. Is this any representation of the final game?
Tanimura
The areas you could go in this version were tailored specifically for the network test. The final version will be different, taking into account the overall progression and difficulty balance of the rest of the game.

4G
So, to put it bluntly, will it be easier or harder?
T
I get asked that a lot, but I think as with Dark Souls, the main thing is the "sense of accomplishment", not whether it's easy or hard. It won't be unreasonably difficult or a lukewarm challenge. We're aiming for a balance that offers a suitable sense of achievement, so will continue to adjust until it reaches a stable point, similar to the previous game.

4G
Would you say what we experienced with the test version was more on the difficult side? [Good grief, he won't shut up about this, will he?]
T
I can't go into detail, but the area you played is relatively close to the endgame, so overall it's not an especially difficult area. However, I feel one of the two bosses in particular is pretty difficult.

4G
Even for a test version, there are quite a lot of forks in the road on the way to the boss. Are you consciously going for an open-field layout?
T
That's right. The seamless transition between areas will be the same as the previous game. Maps connecting in various ways with diverging routes is part of the Dark Souls style that we wanted to maintain.

4G
Will there be anything like the Painted World?
T
There will be a (some?) unique world(s?) like that, but basically it's all contiguous land.

[Bit of general talk about new server system and covenant connectivity.]

4G
Is there any possibility of too many messages or blood stains appearing with the new network play?
T
The system has an upper limit as to how many can appear at one time. Also server-based means ratings can accumulate. Highly rated messages remain for a long time, while pranks and spam quickly get phased out.

4G
The game is scheduled to release on 3 platforms this time, but will the servers be separated?
T
Platform will be separate, but region will be shared. The servers are worldwide, so PS3 users from US or EU will be able to play with PS3 users in Japan.

4G
Is there any system for playing with friends?
T
There's definitely a lot of demand for that sort of thing, but we've got a system that links people in a different way rather simply calling your friends. There were suggestions for connecting directly with friends, but in the end we wanted to stress that Dark Souls is different from a regular multiplayer game, offering players this loose connection. We want to bring a different approach than "playing with friends".

[Known stuff about the differences between Human and Hollowed forms.]

T
[...] We wanted players to be motivated to become Human, rather than simply feeling safe in Hollow form [...] But as with being Hollow in the previous game, we do have a different counter-measure available to people who don't want to be invaded from the start.

[Stuff about summoning for shorter periods of time.]

4G
Will players be able to distinguish different soapstone sizes?
T
Yes. Players being summoned will also be able to make their intentions known, so it should be easier for both sides. The actual size of the sign differs, too.

[Stuff about having several means of health recovery (keep Estus system plus overall limited supply of healing agents) for various play styles.]

Finally, in terms of the test version, the director recommended the Sorcerer for beginners (with long-ranged attacks) and the Dual Swordsman for pros (with no defence).
---

Like I said, not exactly ground-breaking stuff, but I hope there's something new to someone at least.
 

Soodanim

Member
This game is going to force me to build a PC before March, so that I can play this properly.

The OP list seems like it's punishing people for being complacent and thinking the game won't fuck them up, just like in the other games.

I'm not even made about hollow invasions, because I have played offline on DS1 to avoid all online play in the past. Not a big deal.

BlueBros4life!
 
Wowie. Awesome.

Im sure invade while hollow will have its restrictions...otherwise people are going to get pissed.

Even better, much of what made Demon's Souls better than Dark Souls in terms of MP is back!
 
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