Hari Seldon
Member
Valve seems too focused on the living room imo. They should focus on the OS and make it a full featured linux distro to compete with Windows in the office.
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Polygon: SteamDevDays show plan for Valve-owned future, Microsoft should be terrified
- Thread starter alexandros
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SteveWinwood
Member
Options?
Screamapillar
Member
It's the same situation. Iwata said he didn't think Apple's devices would be any danger to Nintendo's devices. Clearly, 3DS's market potential in the west has been significantly impacted by other, "smarter" devices. Market share is market share, whether we're talking about Windows vs Steam OS, or XB1 vs Steam Box.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Saying that VR is one of the two main themes of the conference is just wishfully thinking. There are only 2 panels on VR plus a breakout session.
The economies of games is a much bugger theme (games as service, the economies of freemium games, early access) based on the schedule.
The economies of games is a much bugger theme (games as service, the economies of freemium games, early access) based on the schedule.
Because its free? And performance gains.
I can stomp on my own foot for free too but I wouldn't do that either. Performance gains are cool and all too but how many games do you think will actually come to the new OS?
So your ignoring the performance gains? Stomping your own foot for free would make you slower.
SteveWinwood
Member
no windows works perfect without oddities so hes going to just write off this other thing because reasons
flaxknuckles
Member
Add be second tier to Ubuntu (which already isn't anywhere near Windows popularity)? They don't have Canonical's experience when it comes to this Linux stuff so they'd just end up even more irrelevant.
Look at all the manufacturers Valve has gotten to partner with them over SteamOS and compare that to the ones supporting Ubuntu (and how incredibly long it took them to do so). Valve is doing exactly what they should be.
Laieon
Member
I'm still legitimately disappointed that Microsoft never really seemed to care about getting Games For Windows Live to work. I always thought the idea of your Live account being tied to both the PC and Xbox and being able to earn achievements on either of them was an excellent idea.
Like someone else said, I really don't like the idea of one company being the only relevant one in a certain ecosystem (in this case PC). Steam's alright, but I don't necessarily think it should be the end-all be-all program either, competition is a good thing.
Like someone else said, I really don't like the idea of one company being the only relevant one in a certain ecosystem (in this case PC). Steam's alright, but I don't necessarily think it should be the end-all be-all program either, competition is a good thing.
Performance gains based on strict propitiatory software & hardware.
Very key point, I feel sorry for the graphical engineers, I really do. Its just another library to make their game work with, with more effort (since its lower down).
It's very unprofessional for a publication. The publication should speak with one voice when it comes to reviews and such. Those that break with this should be clearly labelled as separate opinion pieces. That is why you find professional publications speak in the second person plural i.e. we thought...
I've already said a very good reason why I wouldn't want this. It's not my problem if you're unwilling to understand it.
Interfectum
Gold Member
Well they got 300 games so far, they are actively courting developers to get on board and are in an era of multiplatform development across many operating systems. So I imagine SteamOS will have a lot of games coming to it. Will it have support from Blizzard, EA, Ubisoft, etc? We simply don't know yet.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
This SteamDevDays article is labeled Opinion on the Polygon site.
FranXico
Member
You do know that unlike OpenGL, DirectX is strictly proprietary, right?
SteveWinwood
Member
There are positives and negatives with it. You weigh them how you want for your situation. If you believe or choose that windows is better for you, awesome! Stay with it! I don't care. Valve doesn't care. You're still buying their games and not... using their free thing?
You're not the average you think you are, you post on gaf. Why would people buy ps4's when they have all these ps3 games? Well you could keep your ps3... just like you could keep windows... It's a similar issue, and yet you find it to be a dealbreaker that you might have to dual boot because you for some reason want only one os. If that's what you want go for it.
I understand your issue, I just don't think it probably applies to a majority of users. Which is why we're talking about it. It's the future of SteamOS in the marketplace, not the future of SteamOS in Valnen's home.
Of course I do, but it's not tied to hardware. As you know, it's the whole purpose of it and the middle-tier.
I just don't see the benefit to the consumer (Other than the obvious performance gains) of AMD creating a propitiatory API based on GCN. They just want to get back in the game and create a monopoly to shove Nvidia out and its dirty tactitcs. I'm guessing Nvidia will counter with their own version, which will make things even worse.
Hari Seldon
Member
Ubuntu is still a pile of shit and worthless unless you are already a Linux guru. Valve can crush Ubuntu if they put their mind to it.
I dont understand your critic. I read both articles and i fully realized , that Witten liked the Steambox. BUT, he didnt compare it to PC Gaming, but to the console and thus didnt see a thread.
Would be awesome, if you adress your thoughts directly at me next time, instead of this arrogant talking before my back attitude.
You are taking the status of what steamOS and steam machines are now, VS the status of Windows OS and PC's after years and years of development, improvement etc. Which to me is a bit unfair. It might now run only a fraction of the games but this fraction will expand over time, and I think its much fairer to judge the 2 against each other in 10 years. I mean the same thing went down with steam, and your question then would be: why would you use steam where you can only download valve games, when you can buy all kind of other games at a store?
Now years and years later steam has grown to be the number one digital distribution platform for games on PC. The same thing I predict will happen to the idea of SteamOS and Steam machines.
There is nothing OSX does any way differently the Windows, they are both operating systems, the one does things differently then the other. Valve never said that they will create a better OS then windows, they aren't competing with them right now, they are just setting up a backup plan to guarantee that they can sell games freely on PC for as long as they exist. And as long as there is the realistic risk of Microsoft walling off large parts off PC like OSX, digital distribution platforms like Steam are in danger. Valve want to provide an alternative, not a replacement per se to Windows, and linux is a very strong base to create that off.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Yep. Revisionists history.
I was siding with you.... You said that he said and he like the Steam Box and I waffled around the general attitude towards the subject.
I said it in my previous posts, this is around PC gaming and Steam in general, not the living room battle.
Nothing stopping EA or anyone else. Just have to make it.
FranXico
Member
NVidia et al do make some features of their hardware only accessible through DirectX already, though. If you are concerned that SteamOS would lead to API lock-in, this already is a reality with Windows and DirectX. Especially so, when it is a de facto monopoly.
Why do you suspect so much of upcoming proprietary alternatives to both OpenGL and DirectX? At least there would be competition.
If anything, developer support of SteamOS will also stimulate both the evolution of OpenGL and other open alternatives. Keep in mind that SteamOS itself is open source and forks will be inevitable.
2014 is the year for desktop Linux!
People willing to dual boot a second OS are a small enough percentage of the market as to be inconsequential. This thing has to be a decided improvement as the only OS on the box for this thing to be in any way relevant as a marketable product and not some curiosity that ubernerds play with.
Seems like a pretty wide gulf between games not working outright on Linux because they use libraries that don't exist on Linux and games having issues to get running on Windows.
Microsoft screwed up in not thinking about crossbuying between 360 and Windows and screwed up again in not thinking about this for the Xbone. It could have been a way to push their Games for Windows initiative and undercut Valve in any sort of attempt to make a Steambox. It would have kept Microsoft from having to even worry about playing defense on the console arena.
Xisiqomelir
Member
Valve would like devs to write their games in OpenGL and release them on Linux. It's a big push for the DevDays:
Why would a dev do this instead of just writing a DX game and publishing it Windows-only? Say the largest computer games sales channel cut you some slack on their take for putting out a Linux version. Maybe you get featured in the Steam sale. Maybe you get coding help.
Valve has lots of incentives they can use to promote their push, and we know they are serious about this stuff.
fastford58
Member
This is MS's problem. They just don't sweat enough. Then they get it up the hoop. I think we need a "The MS Cycle" jpeg.
Or if computer makers have two OS running on every desktop by default . I think this has two happen in order to achieve a real push.
FranXico
Member
LOL
I can definitely see yet another FUD campaign against SteamOS. It worked wonders in the past when Microsoft was trying to sell Windows Server to clients who were using superior open alternatives.
Disclaimer: this is a speculation, not a prediction.
Of course they can access the hardware, but if that access is through the middle-tier there's still the overheard of that tier.
I'm not concerned that SteamOS will lead to an API lock-in at all. I'm just concerned around the new focus on these lower 'code to the metal' API's. In development terms, they need more man-power time and resource. With the states of releases in games at present, It's a worry.
'Fairness' is an odd concept in this discussion. You don't play potential; yes, given time and the right choices it might become great. But if it's not great right now, why should someone give it a shot when they have alternatives?
Linux owns the Server market and the phone market. So.. whats your point? Desktop? Thats not where the real money is, except Office.
Even more puzzling is how Windows 8 ended up with the 360 version of XBL, which isn't really compatible with the X1 version. Why embed the obsolete XBL into your OS, rather than the one that is supposed to be the driving force behind the "three screens" strategy? They need to sort this out really.
Ah,ok. Sorry, my reading comprehension skills are fading away.....
Probably because x1's live didn't exist yet. They'll switch it over soon I'd imagine.
but the Xbox One is often a clunky, awkward device that tries to force you into Microsoft's ecosystem while limiting your media options.
Again, two different people. One of them bends the reality to proof his point and the other one is just really exited. Why is this so hard to understand?
Again, two different people. One of them bends the reality to proof his point and the other one is just really exited. Why is this so hard to understand?
FranXico
Member
I don't think there is any "alarming" focus on low-level coding. Especially in an age where the C++11 standard is implemented by every compiler.
That is what I referred to as "evolution" of OpenGL and others. APIs often evolve from very thin low level wrappers to mid-level wrappers that make tedious tasks easier. This would be enabled through competition to DirectX.
I get that. I'm just poking fun at Polygon.
Because it seems that everything coming out of Polygon comes with x10000 hyperbole.
OMG Xbox from the future, amazing
2 months later
Steambox to stomp over that clunky MS box
Performance gains seem to be minor and that's assuming that the game is properly worked for Linux. Games like Metro Last Light have super pared down graphic options that mean that it can actually become harder to find your desired performance/IQ balance and levels.
Even if there was a flat 10% increase across the board for absolutely any game, its still not a desirable option when its also only got 10% of the games available as Windows.
Support *needs* to be improved exponentially or this wont work out. Valve is very forward thinking and this may turn out to be great in a few years time, but for now, its a point of big concern for many people and would be a total deal breaker for me if there isn't widespread support from developers. I'll gladly pay the $80 or so for Windows if it means I can play the games I want to.
EDIT: That controller is seriously concering as well. People aren't too hot on it.
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