It's a far more interesting topic than anything relating to the Vita business, to be fair.
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Poor Vita performance dragging down Sony's entire gaming unit
- Thread starter SmokedMeat
- Start date
It's a far more interesting topic than anything relating to the Vita business, to be fair.
megamerican
Member
Let me preface this by saying I own a Vita and like it quite a bit. I don't think there is any chance for Sony to turn things around on the Vita. They did just about everything right. They launched with their biggest franchise in an exclusive title. They got AC, COD, and Bioshock to commit games for the system. I'm guessing when these games ship is out of Sony's hands. I don't really see what more they could have done. I know people love to slag off analysts, but I think they correctly saw that the handheld market has dried up.
No, it's always a possibility. It's all about stopping the money bleeding. If at some point they see that the best way to stop the train is to plug off, they will. Money is just money and sadly, much nothing else matters here.
Metallix87
Member
I don't think anyone expected MK7 to sell 22 million copies in a month.
The hell? 22 Million in what, less than a year? Do you understand what kind of seller MK is? Hell, the DS/Wii versions still chart in Japan even now (Along with NSMB).
because save for the DC, such a move has been unprecedented in this industry.
I think they stand to lose more money pulling out than just staying in the race and dialing back marketing and or production.
michaelius
Banned
You are the one who needs connection to reality.
Market is down because we are in 7th year of generation - market is saturated, Wii is nearly dead, PS3 still costs 250 euro , and X360 didn't have price cut in years.
Thank you so much for pointing this out. I think it really raised the level of discourse in this thread by at least 2X.
Discussing the Vita's biggest competitor in a Vita sales thread seems legit. Especially when Vita is selling at half the rate of a competitor that isn't doing all that great in the west. I think discussion over what caused the success and failure of either device is legitimate in this thread.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
Honestly, not that many devs are invested in Vita. You're way overstating things. It's not like the software is selling anyway.
Hell, even if what you say is true, at this point it might be cheaper for Sony to write these devs a "sorry for this disaster" check and move on.
edit -
Well, there's a first time for everything. Besides, what about the virtual boy?
Kacho
Gold Member
I would agree.
Metallix87
Member
Actually, Sony did everything wrong:
1.) They priced themselves out of the market.
2.) They got exclusives from big franchises, yes, but only side-stories, not mainline exclusive entries.
3.) They DIDN'T launch with their biggest franchise in an exclusive title. Their biggest franchise is Gran Turismo, and a GT Vita hasn't even been announced yet.
4.) They handed development of their Vita titles to their B-Teams.
5.) They used a new memory card format instead of their already established Memory Stick Pro Duo format in the hopes of ravaging wallets to cover the losses on Vita hardware.
6.) They failed to market the device well, and still haven't found a way to market it to consumers in a decent fashion.
The only thing they did right, really, was captivating the game journalists.
If the handheld market has really dried up, 3DS would be struggling as badly (if not worse) than the Vita. This is not the case at all.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
And the 3DS was propelled to heaven because of MK7 lol.
Maybe MGS is what Sony needs. It's a well known franchise amongst casual core gamers ('bros') and everyone is overestimating the love for CoD. It's like Madden. Every bro likes to play it alot, but I doubt anyone froths in the vag when they hear about new releases since they're so routine. We all know bros got the 360 for Halo and Gears and CoD, and the PS3 was bought by PS2 aficionados, those wanting the top tier shit and those who derided the OG Xbox. The PSP didn't set the world on fire anywhere but Japan, and now that that userbase migrated to th 3DS, the Vita needs some huge watershed original IP like the PSOne had because popular franchises I think aren't gonna cut it.
Metallix87
Member
During the Holidays? Absolutely. MK7 and SM3DL definitely helped the 3DS sell amazingly well.
The problem, of course, is that the recession is real, the Euro crisis has gotten worse, and 3DS software releases more or less dried up after MK7, with very sporadic releases prior to July.
Nice job actually responding to the points people made about your silly comment.
Vita/3DS threads really bring out the stupid in people these days... At least it's not as bad as Wii U threads.
They've made good games, B-Team or otherwise. Maybe Sony assumed that that would be enough and, barring bigger and better competition, it indeed might have been enough.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
Do you think the virtual boy had the samed sales potential and appeal as the vita?
Even if the vita doesn't doesn't light up the charts, it could still be supported as a niche product line that could still garner some revenue.
Metallix87
Member
I'm speaking purely from a business perspective. Obviously, making good games is good for gamers. Sadly, it's not good enough for Sony, since none of those good games were system sellers, or even enough to keep the system from plummeting sales-wise.
No, Sony did everything wrong... It has nothing to do with the handheld market and everything with the way Sony handled the Vita.
- Nobody is interested in a PS3 on the go. Handhelds aren't consoles
- Too expensive for a handheld
- These stupid memorycards
- Two versions of the Vita, one with and one without 3G. Why???
- Where are the commercials?
- Where were the announcements on E3?
- Where are the pricecuts?
Sony could do so much more, but instead they are hoping for better times or something. It's pretty sad actually, since the launch line-up was more than stellar.
What is the point of this statement?
I'm 100% sure someone on this message board said it would be "propelled to heaven" at some point in time but most have not. Why cherry pick the most ridiculous statement (that wasn't even made in this thread) to target rather than one of the more rational points several have posted.
Mario Kart 7 did increase 3DS sales. Mario Kart 7 sold several millions copies already and will most likely continue to sell (if it follows MKDS path). These are rational statements that many have echoed in the thread. As far as I can tell you are the only one talking about "rising to heaven" in this thread.
Isn't this thread about why the Vita is performing terribly at the market and not hyperbolic straw men arguments about franchises that actually did increase sales?
*thisisneogaf.gif*
They still have plenty of cash I thought? There's still a while to go before they're in enough of a financial crisis where they're going to have to start sabotaging the gaming business to get by. Maybe in the somewhat near future, but we're not there yet.
Father_Brain
Banned
Again: Which third parties, other than Ubisoft with their one big title, have put significant resources into Vita development?
PS4 and Durango will probably end up sharing nearly all of their third-party library anyway.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
I think they're both colossal disasters that have fundamentally broken value propositions.
Why would retailers and devs support something like this?
Metallix87
Member
The latter is an assumption, so let's not comment on that yet until we know more about both PS4 and Durango.
As for the former, as I said, the loyal devs from Japan who were always almost entirely Sony-exclusive: Falcom, Nippon Ichi, Gust, etc.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
According to NPD Mario Kart 7 is literally selling twice as fast as Mario Kart DS did and 3DS is the only system with YOY gains... I'm not sure what people are expecting?
Sony isn't going to keep a failing platform going for those companies. And those companies could easily just move to a different platform.
Metallix87
Member
If they move to a different platform, it'll be bad news for Sony should they ever want to enter the handheld market in the future with another device. Heck, it might even be bad news for their console in Japan, since those exclusives actually mattered there.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
People on GAF said it will sustain the 3DS and bla bla. It did not sustain the 3DS sales after the holidays.
The only stupid comment here is yours. The fact is wait for (insert game or a revision of a hardware here) and it will sell gang busters is funny. The western world does not care about handhelds as much as it did, and wait for bla bla will barely improve (if at all) sales. If the UK any indication about the 3DSXL sales in Europe and the US than handhelds will not do as good as before. Actually much much worse than before.
Think before you comment next time, and elaborate instead of making a shitty none post.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Euro? I thought we were talking NPD?
Generational fatigue is certainly an issue, but you're divorced from reality if you think the current economic climate and consumer spending isn't what's taking the biggest bite.
Metallix87
Member
It did, albeit not as much as it could have.
People assumed steady releases would continue after the Holidays. Sadly, they didn't. The first half of this year saw less than a dozen releases for the 3DS, I think. You can't just expect a single game to drive sales of your system with absolutely no releases to keep the momentum going. Thankfully, July was very good to the 3DS, and August will definitely boost sales in a big way. The Holidays, of course, will be great for the 3DS.
The question now is: What's the software situation for 3DS going to look like after the Holidays?
Sony lost at the moment were they failed to acknowledge that there is basically no market for handheld core gaming. If you want to make a successful handheld nowadays you have to get everyone on board, casuals, coregamers, fanboys, kids/family etc.
Sony hasn´t got the ips for this and they built the wrong hardware on top of that, the Vita was doomed to fail from the very beginning.
I think the December NPDs were the most damning in this respect with the gaming industry's performance compared to November's BF deals.
Metallix87
Member
I think a part of it is system price. All three consoles are too expensive given what part of the system life cycle we're in. Even the Wii, which is about to be replaced in a few months, is still $150 MSRP. That's absurd this late in the game.
I can't remember seeing an advertisement in the UK, but I can definitely remember 3DS advertisements (though they don't seem to be as popular now I think about it).
Sho_Nuff82
Member
The iPhone is competitively priced compared to other top-tier smartphones (and still costs less than a Vita - hell, a Galaxy Note bought with a data plan costs the same as a Vita in the US), the iPad is competitively priced compared to similar tablets.
Not saying that the Vita's price isn't a problem ($199 probably should have been the ceiling for the system + some kind of onboard memory), but it's silly to think that Apple sells only because of branding.
That the PS3 and 360 still have ASP over $275 in 2012 is borderline absurd, and it's been reflected in the market this year. The technology space moves too fast for anyone to hold price this long - the 5 year console model isn't obsolete yet, but holding at the same price was never going to work in an era where people can get 2 year old smartphones for free. One of my friends at Google calls this "disposable entertainment". It's why the Nexus 7 is only coming in 8 and 16GB flavors with no expansion - no one is going to own it long enough (before upgrading) to fill up that space. The idea of paying $300 for 7 year old tech is anathema to modern consumers.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Good post. Didn't DS sales really take off once that Brain Training game got released? And after that Lisa Kudrow started doing commercials
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXMRNx_Sayg
Casuals are the key to big numbers.
Metallix87
Member
I disagree. I still think kids are the key to big numbers for handhelds. Sure, casuals helped drive DS hardware, but the kids were the primary audience.
Sony STILL fails to realize that children need to be a primary focus when you're launching a system, especially a handheld.
electroplankton
Banned
Falcom stated it's interested in developing for 3DS (probably there's more concrete project to be announced); Gust didn't develop anything relevant for Vita so far. NI is nice, but come on, how many units their games move?
Yea, cause I was the one who said MK7 will sell 22 million in a month...
It is? Cause it worked for the DS and the PS3 (To an extent). It doesn't work if the games aren't there (Like the early days of the PS3, and the Vita thus far). Software drives hardware sales, always has, always will. Mario is a prime example of this, to say it won't help is foolish.
It's true that smart phones have chipped away at the dedicated handheld market, but isn't the 3DS outpacing the DS in the U.S so far? And NSMB2 will help sales quite a bit, just like MK7 and 3D Land did. Software drives hardware, and people love Mario software.
Using the U.K. as an example is silly considering the whole market is in the pan ATM, and has been for a while. And while I don't think the 3DS will match the DS's LTD, I think it'll still do very well.
You're the one who should think before posting consider the stuff you sprouted on this page. And okay, there, I elaborated. Anything else to say?
Take it from somebody who owns upwards of 60 Wii games - third parties (and western third parties in particular) were terrible at Wii support.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
US market isn't exactly doing great these days. Software and hardware trends are most similar between US and UK.
Kids are definitely a huge part of Nintendos success, especially in Europe/US where handhelds are mostly seen as toys.
Sony never had it apparently.