True, but I think the problems are different. Nothing is selling well in the U.K. ATM, nothing. I think the problem in the U.S is generational fatigue for the consoles, and that the U.S. is always slower than the other regions to move from one handheld to another (GBA to DS, and now DS to 3DS).
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Poor Vita performance dragging down Sony's entire gaming unit
- Thread starter SmokedMeat
- Start date
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
What CAN Sony do? People simply don't want the machine.
1. Too expensive for people's wallets for what it does
2. Lack of MUST HAVE titles
3. Memory cards too expensive
4. Not really portable in the way that smart phones are
5. Horrible advertising
The masses simply don't want it. Now, Sony should start putting a bit more effort into the machine for those who already did buy it (PS1 titles, where are you???) but this is Sony so I am not holding my breath.
1. Too expensive for people's wallets for what it does
2. Lack of MUST HAVE titles
3. Memory cards too expensive
4. Not really portable in the way that smart phones are
5. Horrible advertising
The masses simply don't want it. Now, Sony should start putting a bit more effort into the machine for those who already did buy it (PS1 titles, where are you???) but this is Sony so I am not holding my breath.
That stuff means jack shit. A console can have all the latest chips and inputs, if it does not have attractive software then no one will buy it. Software sells hardware, hardware does not sell itself.
The fun part is that it's known since the 80's and we're in 2012 and this still needs to be said...
I feel ya, bro. I feel ya.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Very good point. His original post still stands (as does yours). Didn't Sony announce at the beginning that they were targeting 20 something males who already owned a PS3? Why limit your market that way?
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
The Vita hasn't even been out for half a year outside of Japan yet; it's a little too early to be calling it dead. People were calling the 3DS a disaster early on as well but they managed to turn things around with a price drop and a stronger lineup of games post-launch; it's quite possible that Sony will be able to do something similar.
Oh and the Vita has a great lineup of games for a system that has only been out (in the US) for a little less than half a year. There are some great new installments in existing series (like Uncharted & Lumines), a fantastic new IP (Gravity Rush), and several high quality ports of high quality games (like Rayman & BlazBlue). The Vita library is great right now; the problem is that the upcoming games list is a bit weak. New LBP, new AC, some PS3 ports, and an enhanced version of Persona 4 isn't a horrible lineup, but the system really needs a good system-seller or two and I'm not seeing one (unless CoD Vita turns out the be much better than the lack-of-information would lead me to believe).
Oh and the Vita has a great lineup of games for a system that has only been out (in the US) for a little less than half a year. There are some great new installments in existing series (like Uncharted & Lumines), a fantastic new IP (Gravity Rush), and several high quality ports of high quality games (like Rayman & BlazBlue). The Vita library is great right now; the problem is that the upcoming games list is a bit weak. New LBP, new AC, some PS3 ports, and an enhanced version of Persona 4 isn't a horrible lineup, but the system really needs a good system-seller or two and I'm not seeing one (unless CoD Vita turns out the be much better than the lack-of-information would lead me to believe).
I think it would have done better at launch if the setup was more like PS3 (ie several users share one machine)...I love my PS Vita bar this one (big) drawback. I love playing Uncharted (mostly) but it's also great for the odd games of FIFA/Virtua Tennis/Minis etc...and I played the hell out of Motorstorm at launch.
It's certainly the first hardware I bought at launch where I didn't have that immediate regret as I left the shop...the screen is stunning and I can't wait for PS1 support...I think basically have a PS3 in my hand is a dream...
It's certainly the first hardware I bought at launch where I didn't have that immediate regret as I left the shop...the screen is stunning and I can't wait for PS1 support...I think basically have a PS3 in my hand is a dream...
ShockingAlberto
Member
I feel like the most telling Vita number is the month and a half where zero retail titles came out.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
How many times does this have to be said?
Sony doesn't have a Mario, a Pokemon, and at this point, a Monster Hunter. They don't have a $170 handheld.
Uncharted, Lumines, Gravity Rush, Rayman, BlazBlue, AC will NOT move hardware. WILL NOT. Sorry. Sony released a great piece of hardware while having a shit software line up that will not appeal to the masses. Them be the facts.
Byakuya769
Member
Umm, the vita has been in a perpetual drought. Its lunch numbers were sad.
Count Dookkake
Member
.
And about half a million PSP titles did (In JPN at least).
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Like, I don't see how people are trying to compare the 3DS with the Vita. I honestly don't understand. One has a library of iconic games that will move hardware without any effort and the other doesn't have even one iconic game coming out that will do so.
Yep.
No not really, the PSP profited from the strong brand name, no smartphone competition, strong third party support, piracy and so on. The concept itself already had huge flaws 7 years ago and i don´t know what kind of insanity brought Sony to repeat this.
Over two months, actually. Unless you're thinking of a different period than I am.
Metallix87
Member
Wasn't Ciel no Surge the first decent seller in Japan for Vita?
If Sony want to drive hardware sales without software (Which it seems they're trying to do), they need to let this happen. It worked for the PSP.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I was thinking of the mid-June to early August slump. Was there another or has nothing still come out?
electroplankton
Banned
...no? Ragnarok sold better.
But it's not that you can survive in the market with 30-40k sellers.
Uncharted was big this gen - then AC is another big seller isn't it? Let alone Call of Duty and LBP coming out...let's see what the next few months bring, as stated 3DS was hardly a big success at the start.
Make that June 28th to September 2x for Europe, hah.
Daydream Sequence
Banned
Yeah, Nintendo fans keep moving the goal posts. It's kinda funny. Sony fans appear to be more realistic, but honestly what choice do they have? I see no real signs of hope for the Vita. At all. Shame too, because compared to the 3DS(XL) it's got great tech and an infinitely better store and UI.
All of them better on a console. It's honestly not that difficult to see why this approach is going to sink the Vita.
why didn't they ever move more ps3 titles with cross platform compatibility over?
warhawk
Star hawk
Gran turismo
Anything that's similar to these lol
They have so many viable ips and yet they don't utilize them in a way that would unify their platforms
Also how many ps1 games work for this thing? why do they shoot themselves in the foot so hard?
warhawk
Star hawk
Gran turismo
Anything that's similar to these lol
They have so many viable ips and yet they don't utilize them in a way that would unify their platforms
Also how many ps1 games work for this thing? why do they shoot themselves in the foot so hard?
And as stated, the situations are NOT comparable. COD/LBP/AC spinoffs are nowhere near the level of Mario/Pokemon/MH. And the Vita is doing much much worse than the 3DS ever was.
Last Vita retail game (AFAIK) was Lego Batman 2 in mid-June. Next is either Ragnarok on the 21st or Madden on the 28th, depending on which list you go by (Gamestop has Ragnarok delayed into September).
Metallix87
Member
It just seems like they have some kind of bizarre mentality where they see making products aimed at children as somehow beneath them. That's really the only way any of this makes sense.
I honestly think the PS3 situation and the Vita situation, while both different, share one common factor: Sony REALLY focused on "mature" first party titles on both. I'd like to see them do a total 180 and start focusing on kiddy, family-friendly content first. Ratchet and Sly are definitely a good starting point, but new IPs are needed, especially with strong characters and plenty of whimsy and charm. They've ruined Jak and LBP never really seemed to do enough for them, so I think those should either be dumped or retooled somehow.
Of course, they should REALLY try to buy the Crash Bandicoot IP up from Activision, but they're too proud for that.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Oh jeez.
maverick40
Junior Member
First posts nails it as usual.
Metallix87
Member
Sorry, I thought it had outsold Ragnarok. My mistake.
And yes, you do have a valid point.
Oh wow. That's not good.
Metallix87
Member
Simply amazing.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
All of these are big on the console...
Who is going to buy AC on the Vita over the PS3/360/PC?
Who is going to buy Uncharted (the masses, mind you) over the PS3 version?
Who is going to buy Call of Duty on Vita over the PS3/360/PC?
THAT is the problem Sony faces. And again, for the umpteenth millionth time, don't compare the 3DS situation with the Vita. 3DS was always going to get a couple Mario's, Pokemons, Zeldas, Monster Hunters, and more. The Vita? No.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Some NPD figures:
After 8 NPDs
Super Mario 64 DS: 1,062,000
Super Mario 3D Land: 2,100,000
After 7 NPDs
Mario Kart DS: 998,000
Mario Kart 7: 1,750,000
After 16 NPDs
Nintendo DS: 5,310,000 (2 holidays)
Nintendo 3DS: 5,131,000 (1 holiday)
After 8 NPDs
Super Mario 64 DS: 1,062,000
Super Mario 3D Land: 2,100,000
After 7 NPDs
Mario Kart DS: 998,000
Mario Kart 7: 1,750,000
After 16 NPDs
Nintendo DS: 5,310,000 (2 holidays)
Nintendo 3DS: 5,131,000 (1 holiday)
lol, if the utterly collapsed UK market is an indicator for the rest of Europe and America, then Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo might as well all pack it in and give up gaming all together. Even still, XL tripled weekly figures, which actually wouldn't be awful for the markets we know 3DS is doing decently in (US, France, Italy, etc).
The thought with Uncharted and AC on Vita is that you would buy them in addition to the console game. It's not an either/or scenario as they are unique experiences.
That said, I don't think the market is large enough to support those unique experiences, at least not on proprietary handheld hardware from Sony.
Metallix87
Member
I think this really puts things into perspective.
Yes, 3DS is still struggling a bit in the West, but the handheld market still seems fairly viable, and the 3DS's future looks really bright given that XL and NSMB2 launch this month, followed by Paper Mario, Epic Mickey, and Luigi's Mansion in the Holiday, and then Animal Crossing sometime next year.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Well, thats the point. For many, it is an either/or situation. Unless Sony sold the console/handheld game for like $70 or so but they're trying to sell combos for $90 I believe? That isn't going to work.
maverick40
Junior Member
OP: how did you really expect this thread to go down? Nintendo boys are in their element here putting down everything Sony and the naysayers are also lapping this thread up. Why did you make this thread if you don't mind me asking? Nothing productive is going to come out of this IMO
Metallix87
Member
I think the problem with that amounts to timing. With AC, Uncharted, and Black Ops, the handheld "experiences" are launching to close to the mainline console titles. I'm not saying that spreading them out further from the main games would suddenly make them super successful, but it would've likely helped them do a bit better overall.
More importantly, though, I still think the problem is that B-teams are making these experiences (for the most part), and consumers know that, and it keeps them from buying the games.
Uncharted: Golden Abyss wasn't released day and date with Uncharted 3, though.
Eh? No other handheld offers those games to the level Vita will. Also they are all different games to their 'big brothers' - you're saying "why buy Mario on 3DS when you can get it on Wii?" because you want to play that 'story'.
I guess I'm in a minority - I have very little play time on my consoles due to TV being used by many others - so the ability to play on Vita really appeals to me. I appreciate being able to play on the PS3 then continue on Vita also...it's a shame they can't sort out remote play.
Anyway, regardless - it's still early days - people had written off PS3 by now and it still managed to claw back most of the X360 lead...not saying this will, just saying it's early days.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Really? REALLY? Nintendo boys? Naysayers? Give me a break.
Many of us are infamous for being doubters of Nintendo (myself included). This doesn't have ANYTHING to do with being pro Nintendo/anti Sony. Get that fanboy shit out of here, keep it on GameFAQs or something. The facts are the facts. Sony miscalculated AGAIN and the proof is in the pudding.
But you don't get that the MASS public which is what will make or break a piece of hardware isn't interested in the 'Only Vita can put out these visuals!' talking point. They don't care. Why do you think the PSP suffered so greatly? Lack of killer software. Why do you think the Vita is suffering so greatly? Lack of killer software. Why do you think the DS and now 3DS are doing better than Sony's hardware? Much more killer software. It's as simple as that.
Metallix87
Member
I'd say it was released close enough to Uncharted 3 where some people might have experienced a bit of "fatigue".
Jaded Alyx
Member
I don't really see this happening here.
I see a bunch of people speaking facts and offering opinions for the most part.
Metallix87
Member
What do you mean, exactly?
How do we know that the market can support 2 handhelds? The PSP was fluke in Japan and in the states it was dead after 2 years. Europe I don't know but here in Sweden I've never seen anyone with a PSP, only DS.
Sony's problem is that they are out too late and don't have enough support with really big heavy hitters. Cod and AC spin-offs alone won't be enough to sell to the market. Then there is the high price and pricey memory cards. Sony dug their grave and can't crawl out of it.
Sony's problem is that they are out too late and don't have enough support with really big heavy hitters. Cod and AC spin-offs alone won't be enough to sell to the market. Then there is the high price and pricey memory cards. Sony dug their grave and can't crawl out of it.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Is anyone here not expecting them to drop the price of the Vita by the end of the year? A price drop is the only way that Sony has any chance whatsoever of meeting their sales projections.
I was going to make this point myself (Using you as an example), but you beat me to the punch.
we.are.the.armada
Member
The Vita is pretty much the Persona 4 Golden machine for me and possibly many others.
Maybe Sony is so blasé about this shit because they actually have a strategy or something? Maybe some killer apps?
Maybe Sony is so blasé about this shit because they actually have a strategy or something? Maybe some killer apps?