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[Metallix87]

Doesn't take away from the fact that it was a strong launch lineup. Since when was what gamers are jumping to purchase the measuring stick of what's great?

This is a sales topic, so you believing the Vita had a strong lineup is irrelevant.

The Vita won't die. Some people really fail to look at this from a long term perspective. While the Vita is probably not yet profitable, it does not lose huge amounts of money on a daily basis. And it will be profitable at some point in the near future. So there is no reason to panic. The PS Vita does not have to be as successful as the DS or any other handheld. It has to be profitable and be an interesting addition to the Playstation brand. That can and will be achieved. Anything above that is a bonus.

Can you back up and/or prove any of this?

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

The Vita won't die. Some people really fail to look at this from a long term perspective. While the Vita is probably not yet profitable, it does not lose huge amounts of money on a daily basis. And it will be profitable at some point in the near future. So there is no reason to panic. The PS Vita does not have to be as successful as the DS or any other handheld. It has to be profitable and be an interesting addition to the Playstation brand. That can and will be achieved. Anything above this is a bonus.

Can you supply some numbers to backup your statements? It seems Sony's gaming division is unprofitable and Vita is the chief culprit.

 

[Forever]

The Vita won't die. Some people really fail to look at this from a long term perspective. While the Vita is probably not yet profitable, it does not lose huge amounts of money on a daily basis. And it will be profitable at some point in the near future. So there is no reason to panic. The PS Vita does not have to be as successful as the DS or any other handheld. It has to be profitable and be an interesting addition to the Playstation brand. That can and will be achieved. Anything above that is a bonus.

PS: Why do people here think that the loss in the last quarter is from the Vita? And do people really think, $45 million in this business is that much money?

I wonder if Sony thinks this way too. Might explain things.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

This is a sales topic, so you believing the Vita had a strong lineup is irrelevant.

Can you back up and/or prove any of this?

This is common sense. The Vita is a cheap device, the hardware costs were already broken down. The are big titles on the horizon, so the sales will more likely go up than go down. The Vita was designed to be profitable, and not a heavily subsidized product like the PS3. It is just a matter of time. How profitable it will be is another question. But an unimportant one.

Can you supply some numbers to backup your statements? It seems Sony's gaming division is unprofitable and Vita is the chief culprit.

How do you know that Sony's gaming division is unprofitable because of the Vita? Show me please how the current losses will be permant and that Sony is losing big money on every Vita unit, and why it isn't a lot more plausible that there only have been non-recurring development costs? Don't you think that the current state of the home console market has something to do with the financial results of all big three?

 

[Father_Brain]

The PS Vita does not have to be as successful as the DS or any other handheld.

No, but it does have to be selling well enough for retailers to want to stock it and third parties to greenlight projects for it (since Sony, unlike Nintendo, has an extremely limited ability to drive handheld sales with first-party software). That's definitely not happening now, and it's extremely difficult to envision a road map for Vita getting to that point in even one major territory, let alone all three.

And I'm not an insider, but by simple logic, I can guarantee you that Sony's profitability road map for Vita hinged on it selling much, much better than it is now in order for the economy of scale to do its work. Say, 10 million this fiscal year.

 

[Metallix87]

This is common sense. The Vita is a cheap device, the hardware costs were already broken down. The are big titles on the horizon, so the sales will more likely go up than go down. The Vita was designed to be profitable, and not a heavily subsidized product like the PS3. It is just a matter of time.

... Where? What titles?

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

How do you know that Sony's gaming division is unprofitable because of the Vita? Show me please how the current losses will be permant and that Sony is losing big money on every Vita unit, and why it isn't a lot more plausible that there only have been non-recurring development costs? Don't you think that the current state of the home console market has something to do with the financial results of all big three?

I used "chief culprit" because it the most reasonable explanation instead of a declarative statement you made. You're speaking in terms of unit costs, but Vita carries significant fixed costs as well. To put it another way, combined Vita+PSP sales are 400K worse than the PSP sold by itself a year ago. Vita is a mega-bomb and it's unreasonable to think it's profitable.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Even if Sony is reticent about plans for Vita, retailers won't wait that long to dump it once they are no longer obligated to carry what doesn't sell. With Wii U and the holidays coming up, there is precious shelf space and inventory capacity. So, it won't be long before what little has been afforded to Sony's little big disaster will be redistributed to things that actually sell. Probably post-Xmas B&M retail death in NA, I'm guessing.

 

[Red UFO]

... Where? What titles?

They're probably talking about assassins creed and black ops

 

[ohlawd]

They're probably talking about assassins creed and black ops

I can't wait for the NPD numbers to be released when those games come out.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

No, but it does have to be selling well enough for retailers to want to stock it and third parties to greenlight projects for it (since Sony, unlike Nintendo, has an extremely limited ability to drive handheld sales with first-party software). That's definitely not happening now, and it's extremely difficult to envision a road map for Vita getting to that point in even one major territory, let alone all three.

Retailers are stocking the vita now. Third parties are developing projects now for the Vita. For third parties it is not necessarily about big profits. They need to spread their IPs. Maybe they will adjust their budgets a little bit (only if necessary, I don't think Vita game development needs big budget), but that's it.

And I'm not an insider, but by simple logic, I can guarantee you that Sony's profitability road map for Vita hinged on it selling much, much better than it is now in order for the economy of scale to do its work. Say, 10 million this fiscal year.

I don't think these are their internal, exact projections of sold units until profitability.

... Where? What titles?

Now you are trolling.

Assassin's Creed: Liberation
Madden 13
FIFA 13
Need for Speed: Most Wanted
Call of Duty: Black Ops declassified
LittleBigPlanet
LittleBigPlanet Karting
Final Fantasy X HD
Killzone
Street Fighter X Tekken
...

Again: I don't say these titles will make sales of the Vita rise to DS level. They don't have to.

I used "chief culprit" because it the most reasonable explanation instead of a declarative statement you made. You're speaking in terms of unit costs, but Vita carries significant fixed costs as well. To put it another way, combined Vita+PSP sales are 400K worse than the PSP sold by itself a year ago. Vita is a mega-bomb and it's unreasonable to think it's profitable.

And what are those "significant fixed costs" that will prevent that Sony will ever achieve profitability? The 3G version (!) of the Vita is suspected to cost about $160 without assembly:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-20-is-the-playstation-vita-worth-230

 

[nhlducks35]

Now you are trolling.

Assassin's Creed: Liberation
Madden 13
FIFA 13
Need for Speed: Most Wanted
Call of Duty: Black Ops declassified
LittleBigPlanet
LittleBigPlanet Karting
Final Fantasy X HD
Killzone
Street Fighter X Tekken

We haven't even seen any gameplay of these games, and karting is not coming to the Vita.

 

[sp3000]

Now you are trolling.

Assassin's Creed: Liberation
Madden 13
FIFA 13
Need for Speed: Most Wanted
Call of Duty: Black Ops declassified
LittleBigPlanet
LittleBigPlanet Karting
Final Fantasy X HD
Killzone
Street Fighter X Tekken

It's great that most of these games have not a single piece of ingame footage shown.

Even better that they are all just IPs ripped from the PS3 and ported down. Not a single unique IP on that list.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

We haven't even seen any gameplay of these games, and karting is not coming to the Vita.

And how is that important for what I am saying...? (although you are right about Karting, but I'm sure it will come to Vita)

It's great that most of these games have not a single piece of ingame footage shown.

Even better that they are all just IPs ripped from the PS3 and ported down. Not a single unique IP on that list.

That's irrelevant, they won't be catastrophic. They will increase Vita sales. Maybe not by much, but that's ok.

 

[TDLink]

And how is that important for what I am saying...? (although you are right about Karting, but I'm sure it will come to Vita)

You said Vita has big games on the horizon. I don't think most people classify games you can get better versions of on consoles as reasons to get the system, especially when some of those have already been out for a while on consoles.

 

[electroplankton]

Now you are trolling.

Assassin's Creed: Liberation released the same day of ACIII, and that puts Liberation in a very hard position.
Madden 13 Who will buy a Vita just for Madden?
FIFA 13 Idem
Need for Speed: Most Wanted Idem
Call of Duty: Black Ops declassified Probably a low-tier entry in the series, people will be busy playing CoD on their home consoles
LittleBigPlanet Not a big seller, nor a system seller (we saw that on PSP)
LittleBigPlanet Karting not coming on Vita
Final Fantasy X HD they started to develop it in January... Btw, multi with PS3
Killzone It didn't sell PS3, will it sell Vita?
Street Fighter X Tekken already in the market since February?
...

Who's trolling now?

 

[Gemüsepizza]

You said Vita has big games on the horizon. I don't think most people classify games you can get better versions of on consoles as reasons to get the system, especially when some of those have already been out for a while on consoles.

Please stop comparing a mobile console to a home console, it makes no sense. I can't play "the better version" of a game when I'm not at home.

Who's trolling now?

I did not buy my Vita for one title. I don't think there are many people who would do this with any console.

 

[stupei]

Now you are trolling.

Assassin's Creed: Liberation
Madden 13
FIFA 13
Need for Speed: Most Wanted
Call of Duty: Black Ops declassified
LittleBigPlanet
LittleBigPlanet Karting
Final Fantasy X HD
Killzone
Street Fighter X Tekken
...

Again: I don't say these titles will make sales of the Vita rise to DS level. They don't have to.

Wait, seriously? This is the list of exciting upcoming games?

... oh my god, the Vita really is doomed.

 

[GoofsterStud]

What really can Sony do at this point? Going way undercuts like the PS3 isn't an option... Limited funds for marketing, as they are probably hedging there bets on the PS4, and further PSV marketing would impact further PS4 marketing. Lack of using free publicity E3 was a blunder, but it shows that they are hedging there bets. They can't take there teams of the PS4, since that's probably what they are hedging their bets on.

So what's left?

 

[Diablos54]

That's irrelevant, they won't be catastrophic. They will increase Vita sales. Maybe not by much, but that's ok.

Not for Sony it's not.

And I glanced over that list, all of them have PS3 versions except for FF X HD (Which was a PS2 game). If they are supposed to significantly move Vita units, it's just not going to happen.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Wait, seriously? This is the list of exciting upcoming games?

... oh my god, the Vita really is doomed.

I just listed the big IPs. There are much more titles coming, there is a thread here with a list:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=472361

Not for Sony it's not.

Why? Please explain to me why the Vita has to be an enormous, record-breaking success and why it is not sufficient, if they reach profitability after a while?

 

[ThisWreckage]

I've said from the start that the handheld gaming market is an uphill battle and a waste of money. The PSP couldn't even compete with the DS and now Sony has smart phones and tablets to worry about as well. The entire Vita development cost should have been spent on acquiring devs for the PS4.

Also, I thought that the Vita was breaking even.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

So what's left?

Do what Ninty did. Only question is whether it is VB or 3DS. At this point, though, even going with the latter will probably result in a situation similar to the former.

 

[Diablos54]

Why? Please explain to me why the Vita has to be an enormous, record-breaking success and why it is not sufficient, if they reach profitability after a while?

It doesn't. But it's a HUGE flop worldwide. Sony, despite what they say, can't be happy with it at all. Didn't they say it'll take 3 years to start profiting or something? Cause if that's the case, it ain't happening for a long while.

 

[ThisWreckage]

It doesn't. But it's a HUGE flop worldwide. Sony, despite what they say, can't be happy with it at all. Didn't they say it'll take 3 years to start profiting or something? Cause if that's the case, it ain't happening for a long while.

http://zoknowsgaming.com/2011/06/09/playstation-vita-breakeven-profitable-day-1/

It was supposed to be profitable on day one.

 

[sp3000]

Why? Please explain to me why the Vita has to be an enormous, record-breaking success and why it is not sufficient, if they reach profitability after a while?

You have any idea how dire Sony's financials are right now?

 

[Diablos54]

http://zoknowsgaming.com/2011/06/09/playstation-vita-breakeven-profitable-day-1/

It was supposed to be profitable on day one.

Hmm, so it's at least breaking even. Well I suppose that's something. But it leaves them with no room to drop the price (Which wouldn't do too much ATM anyway) in the near future. Plus how much would they need to sell to get back all the cash put into development and marketing?

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

http://zoknowsgaming.com/2011/06/09/playstation-vita-breakeven-profitable-day-1/

It was supposed to be profitable on day one.

That assumes a certain level of sales which the Vita has not come close to acheiving (given common sense, known sales, and Sony's revised estimates).

 

[Gospel]

Not for Sony it's not.

And I glanced over that list, all of them have PS3 versions except for FF X HD (Which was a PS2 game). If they are supposed to significantly move Vita units, it's just not going to happen.

Come to think of it, I believe FFXHD is going to hit the PS3 as well.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

You have any idea how dire Sony's financials are right now?

The Vita is here to make the Playstation brand more interesting and to offer more choice to players. Companies don't have to make massive profits with every product they release, that's not how it works.

That assumes a certain level of sales which the Vita has not come close to acheiving (given common sense, known sales, and Sony's revised estimates).

I don't think you understand what "it’s also not going to lose money for us on day one" means.

 

[ThisWreckage]

That assumes a certain level of sales which the Vita has not come close to acheiving (given common sense, known sales, and Sony's revised estimates).

I thought he was referring to unit by unit cost.

 

[Diablos54]

The Vita is there to make the Playstation brand more interesting and to offer more choice to players. Companies don't have to make massive profits with every product they release, that's not how it works.

That seems to be Sony's specialty at the moment... And the Vita's doing nothing to improve the already damaged Sony brand, it's having the opposite effect.

 

[Father_Brain]

http://zoknowsgaming.com/2011/06/09/playstation-vita-breakeven-profitable-day-1/

It was supposed to be profitable on day one.

The wording of that quote doesn't confirm a per-unit profit, though. It's more likely that Sony expected that software/accessory sales would make up for whatever losses they were taking on the hardware.

 

[TDLink]

Please stop comparing a mobile console to a home console, it makes no sense. I can't play "the better version" of a game when I'm not at home.



I did not buy my Vita for one title. I don't think there are many people who would do this with any console.

You may not be able to play it on the go, sure, but most people don't care about doing that. The ones who do care about doing that also already have a PS3, making it a waste of money to also purchase the game on Vita. (See: My Cross-Play rant from last page)

If you have a Vita and also have a PS3 are you honestly going to purchase AC: Liberation over AC3? Are you honestly going to purchase Madden NFL 13 Vita over PS3? Maybe you will purchase both for the cross-play, but like I said that is a massive cost that most people aren't willing to pay right now. It is a problem. You can't sell a system reliably without good exclusives. Vita just does not have enough right now and they certainly don't have enough on the horizon either. Some of those "big games" from your list aren't even coming out this year.

Not for Sony it's not.

And I glanced over that list, all of them have PS3 versions except for FF X HD (Which was a PS2 game). If they are supposed to significantly move Vita units, it's just not going to happen.

Actually, FFX HD is being developed for both PS3 and PSV. We haven't seen anything of either version though so I wouldn't expect it this year at all.

 

[ThisWreckage]

The wording of that quote doesn't confirm a per-unit profit, though. It's more likely that Sony expected that software/accessory sales would make up for whatever losses they were taking on the hardware.

Either way, they're not taking a huge hit on each Vita sold like people are saying they are.

The Vita will live or die by Japanese support since handheld gaming is much bigger in Japan. NA devs have no reason to develop games for it. They need to get Metal Gear, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo, etc. on that thing stat.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

I don't think you understand what "it’s also not going to lose money for us on day one" means.

That is impossible, no product launch in the history of industry hasn't been a loss on day one. So what they mean is the below...

I thought he was referring to unit by unit cost.

Yes, and before the system launches unit cost is an estimate, based on how much they think they will sell per year. The Vita isn't selling anywhere near like they originally estimated. That means fixed costs are spread over fewer units, production costs aren't being made good, inventory costs are higher than anticipated, future losses from shuttering the production line either have been taken or will be.

Ultimate unit by unit cost is something that can only accurately be determined at the end of a product's life cycle, certainly never before it even started.

 

[Diablos54]

The Vita will live or die by Japanese support since handheld gaming is much bigger in Japan. NA devs have no reason to develop games for it. They need to get Metal Gear, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo, etc. on that thing stat.

Which is why it's in so much trouble, it has none. It's biggest title in Japan is a PS2 port up. Despite the strength of P4 at the moment with the anime, that is pretty damn shameful.

 

[TheDarkStark]

I can't believe Sony ****ed up another launch after how poorly the PSP did at the start.

I mean really you think a solid launch day lineup is good enough to carry this thing for years with no AAA titles on the horizon?

Pathetically poor planning.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

It's great that most of these games have not a single piece of ingame footage shown.

Even better that they are all just IPs ripped from the PS3 and ported down. Not a single unique IP on that list.

Or they have been handed off to B team developers like Assassin's Creed.

 

[triggaz]

How profitable it will be is another question. But an unimportant one.

Legendary level of SDF'ing here

 

[FoneBone]

Gemüsepizza...seriously. Stop it.

 

[Metallix87]

The Vita is here to make the Playstation brand more interesting and to offer more choice to players. Companies don't have to make massive profits with every product they release, that's not how it works.

All the Vita has done is do more damage to the PlayStation brand.

 

[Father_Brain]

Either way, they're not taking a huge hit on each Vita sold like people are saying they are.

Define "huge," though.

Obviously, it's nothing close to what they were losing on PS3, but Sony presumably had a road map laid out long before launch that set approximate times for when Vita as a business would be profitable, when the Vita hardware would start turning a profit, and when manufacturing costs would drop enough to allow for a painless price drop. It's fairly safe to say that all of those milestones depended on the hardware selling at a rate much closer to the original 10m projection for the current fiscal year than what we've actually seen thus far.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

I can't believe Sony ****ed up another launch after how poorly the PSP did at the start.

I mean really you think a solid launch day lineup is good enough to carry this thing for years with no AAA titles on the horizon?

Pathetically poor planning.

The PSP's launch did way, way better than Vita's launch. Vita is a bomba all to itself.

 

[MYE]

The Vita won't die. Some people really fail to look at this from a long term perspective. While the Vita is probably not yet profitable, it does not lose huge amounts of money on a daily basis. And it will be profitable at some point in the near future. So there is no reason to panic. The PS Vita does not have to be as successful as the DS or any other handheld. It has to be profitable and be an interesting addition to the Playstation brand. That can and will be achieved. Anything above that is a bonus.

PS: Why do people here think that the loss in the last quarter is from the Vita? And do people really think, $45 million in this business is that much money?

EVERYONE GETS A MEDAL!

 

[Hyuga]

Wait, seriously? This is the list of exciting upcoming games?

... oh my god, the Vita really is doomed.

Not your taste?
That's too bad for you.
A lot of other gamers are happy about these titles (+ me)

 

[UncleSporky]

PS: Why do people here think that the loss in the last quarter is from the Vita? And do people really think, $45 million in this business is that much money?

You can make a profit off of something and still have it be a loss overall if it doesn't cover what you expected it to cover, if its sales weren't as good as you needed it to be. Short term profit, longer term loss.

Vita was supposed to shore up the losses from PS3 and PSP's waning popularity. While it did earn them some money, it was not enough to overcome the losses from the other platforms. Clearly Sony would've liked for it to sell well enough to make up for it, but it did not, and the situation is not likely to improve - these past few months were supposed to have been one of the biggest moments for the new platform.

 

[Diablos54]

Not your taste?
That's too bad for you.
A lot of other gamers are happy about these titles (+ me)

Yea, those PS3 owners are gonna love those titles...

 

[MYE]

Assassin's Creed: Liberation Past Portable AC's have been shit
Madden 13 Console Port
FIFA 13 Console Port
Need for Speed: Most Wanted Console Port
Call of Duty: Black Ops declassified Past Portable CD's have been shit
LittleBigPlanet Console Port
LittleBigPlanet Karting Console Port
Final Fantasy X HD Cool
Killzone Could be cool if designed for a portable
Street Fighter X Tekken Console Port
...

Terrible

As someone who went PSP over DS last gen, this list looks WAY too familiar....but without the quirky Japanese RPGs.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Terrible

As someone who went PSP over DS last gen, this list looks WAY too familiar....but without the quirky Japanese RPGs.

Little big planet isn't a port
The past portable consoles couldn't handle a portable assassin's creed or call of duty. And I hope you don't think quirky jrgs are going to sell the system? And why do you say cool to ffx? Shouldn't that be classified as a console port?