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Poor Vita performance dragging down Sony's entire gaming unit

7threst said:
Let me just make sure what you are saying... that the succesfull games on 3DS might as well be released on consoles but are in fact a success on 3DS because they aren't offered on consoles?

I mean, somehow I have the feeling you are mixing two arguments up as one:
- The handheldgames that are considered little brothers from their console counterparts (meaning, dumbed down but still mostly the same like their console counterparts)
- Unique experiences only to be found (and maybe only possible) on handhelds.
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No, my argument is that some people like to argue that people don't like console-style games on portable systems (as opposed to games specifically designed for being on a portable system like most of what you see on the smartphones) and that's why the Vita is failing. And I'm saying that's ridiculous because look at a bunch of the games that are successful on the 3DS. Mario 3D Land, Mario Kart, the Zelda enhanced port, Kingdom Hearts 3D, Super Street Fighter 3D edition - all of these are console-style games that just happen to be on a portable system. They show that plenty of people love to buy console-style games on their portable systems as long as they're good or unique games (and don't feel like downgrades like Uncharted: GA).
 
Hyuga said:
Not your taste?
That's too bad for you.
A lot of other gamers are happy about these titles (+ me)
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As a Vita owner who is only marginally interested in one title on that list? Yes, it's pretty bad for me.

But then I bought the Vita knowing that it would largely be my portable Persona, up-rezed PSP, and PS1 machine. I guess I just keep hoping to be pleasantly surprised.
 
Robert at Zeboyd Games said:
No, my argument is that some people like to argue that people don't like console-style games on portable systems (as opposed to games specifically designed for being on a portable system like most of what you see on the smartphones) and that's why the Vita is failing. And I'm saying that's ridiculous because look at a bunch of the games that are successful on the 3DS. Mario 3D Land, Mario Kart, the Zelda enhanced port, Kingdom Hearts 3D, Super Street Fighter 3D edition - all of these are console-style games that just happen to be on a portable system. They show that plenty of people love to buy console-style games on their portable systems as long as they're good or unique games (and don't feel like downgrades like Uncharted: GA).
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Ok, I just seem to have a hard time myself to decide what is a console-game and what is not (next to games like Etrian Odyssey or Knights in the Nightmare of course that are tailored towards portable gaming and the unique capabilities of a touchscreen).
But I see what you mean. It's also the effort developers make towards developing handheld games or handheld versions of their console counterparts. As long as there is an effort in developing these games (instead of dumbing down alrteady existing ideas) and gamers see it's actually worthwile to spend their time and money on a game, it'll probably sell. But now I sound like captain obvious haha :)
 
stupei said:
As a Vita owner who is only marginally interested in one title on that list? Yes, it's pretty bad for me.

But then I bought the Vita knowing that it would largely be my portable Persona, up-rezed PSP, and PS1 machine. I guess I just keep hoping to be pleasantly surprised.
Click to expand...

Similar thing here. Gravity Rush, Persona 4 Golden, and a better system to play my PSP games on was enough to sell me on the system. Anything else that ends up surprising me is gravy. Unfortunately for Sony, that's not enough to sell most people on the Vita as we've seen so far.
 
9thwonder said:
rockstar ported it over to PS2 because it was easy money. I guess atlus remade persona 4 on vita because they were unhappy with sales lmao.
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*Facepalm*

You obviously don't have a clue what he means when he said that.

Terrell said:
There seems to be a bit of discourse about why Sony isn't doing anything to fix the problem. Well, I have said it before and I will say it again: why should they? 3rd-parties have carried every launch they've ever had, so why would they think differently this time?

Figured it was easier to copy-paste this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=40539079&postcount=12138
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Green Slime said:
Maybe this just proves that Sony's IPs simply aren't strong enough to sell a system?

As I've said a bunch of times in this very topic, Sony relies far too much on third parties to sell their systems, and they need to start developing franchises that can stand the test of time while also proving to have system-selling power.
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It's just as I thought before...without 3rd party support, the PS brand would be nothing.
 
7threst said:
Actually, that would be one of my main reason to buy a Vita. The PSP treated me well in that department and if games like Ys don't find their way to 3DS I simply have to get a Vita for that awesome Falcom-fix :)
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I would venture without any proof whatsoever that a good portion of the PSP's dismal NA sales in the past two and a half years or so are to fans of JRPGs.

My only proof is that someone had to be buying them and the majority of games that did get PSP releases in that time period were JRPGs!
 
Green Slime said:
2.) Uncharted was a reaction to Gears of War, God of War was a reaction to Devil May Cry. I'm not saying they're clones, but they definitely borrowed from said popular games at the height of their popularity and hype.
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The fuck is this shit? Uncharted is NOTHING like Gears.

Edit : Oh lord, he even says Sony is losing money per Vita sold without giving proof, lol.
 
julls said:
Loved the shooting in GA - can't speak for the console ones as they don't have the gyro element.
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It's crazy what a difference the gyro aiming makes. I loved this in Uncharted and in Gravity Rush. I'm convinced that this should be a part of all 3rd person games on the Vita. Or at least an option.
 
Gaogaogao said:
next revision needs 16gb built in, or the equivalent memory card.
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I don't see that being easy, it'll probably need to be a memory card.

Since it doesn't have anything internal you can work with currently, then built in memory would probably have to be treated by old software as if it were a memory card...but then how would it be able to interact with an actual memory card as well?
 
what I don't get is people say Sony don't advertise, but they spend loads of marketing?
So don't we see it, we know Sony is paying out for marketing but where is it?
are they spending shit loads of money on ads & forgetting to buy airtime?
don't make sense, or are they bidding for it airtime & aren't willing to match MS's stupid bids, sorry don't know it works?
 
TGO said:
what I don't get is people say Sony don't advertise, but they spend loads of marketing?
So don't we see it, we know Sony is paying out for marketing but where is it?
are they spending shit loads of money on ads & forgetting to buy airtime?
don't make sense, or are they bidding for it airtime & aren't willing to match MS's stupid bids, sorry don't know it works?
Click to expand...

Well, marketing is not only TV ads, it's also how to place the product in stores.
 
TGO said:
what I don't get is people say Sony don't advertise, but they spend loads of marketing?
So don't we see it, we know Sony is paying out for marketing but where is it?
are they spending shit loads of money on ads & forgetting to buy airtime?
don't make sense, or are they bidding for it airtime & aren't willing to match MS's stupid bids, sorry don't know it works?
Click to expand...

I saw a bunch of commercials for the Vita around launch and for a few months after. The most memorable one featured some clean-cut, mid-20s guy turning off his PS3, then leaving his place with Vita in hand, completely focused on it as he walked around the city and looked shiftily at possible opponents along the way. It was later shortened and had a small advert for Unit 13 appended at the end.

I remember being surprised at how out of touch a company with their kind of revenue could be. It makes me wonder what the buzz is around the company around the product and the team responsible for it.
 
Takuan said:
I saw a bunch of commercials for the Vita around launch and for a few months after. The most memorable one featured some clean-cut, mid-20s guy turning off his PS3, then leaving his place with Vita in hand, completely focused on it as he walked around the city and looked shiftily at possible opponents along the way. It was later shortened and had a small advert for Unit 13 appended at the end.

I remember being surprised at how out of touch a company with their kind of revenue could be. It makes me wonder what the buzz is around the company around the product and the team responsible for it.
Click to expand...

Maybe part of the problem is some of us hardly watch TV anymore. I watch Funimation Channel with the kids, BBC. I didn't see any such adds.
 
TGO said:
what I don't get is people say Sony don't advertise, but they spend loads of marketing?
So don't we see it, we know Sony is paying out for marketing but where is it?
are they spending shit loads of money on ads & forgetting to buy airtime?
don't make sense, or are they bidding for it airtime & aren't willing to match MS's stupid bids, sorry don't know it works?
Click to expand...

For instance they paid for some extra content in Assassin's Creed 3 and odds are at the end of the commercials you'll only see the PS logo. That is advertising money too.
 
GoofsterStud said:
Maybe part of the problem is some of us hardly watch TV anymore. I watch Funimation Channel with the kids, BBC. I didn't see any such adds.
Click to expand...
I don't think the demographic for either channel you mentioned fits the one Sony's targeting, but it's a moot point because I don't believe for a second that more marketing will help the system's sales in a meaningful way. I was simply replying to TGO's post in stating that there was indeed a substantial TV marketing campaign in North America.

Here's how I see it: those who aren't aware of the Vita probably aren't the types to bring their video games out with them in public, or aren't big gamers at all. In that sense, Sony's bang-on with their declared target demographic (the PS3 fanbase and "serious" gaming audience). The problem is, that's already a niche audience; they're capping their potential user base on that ideology alone. Now, of that audience, those who haven't adopted early are savvy/patient enough to:

1. Wait for a price drop
2. Wait for some indication of strong support from Sony and/or relevant third parties
3. Wait for a hardware revision (seriously, external memory cards are an abomination)
4. All/some combination of the above

So, we continue to wait, and Vita continues to struggle.
 
demigod said:
The fuck is this shit? Uncharted is NOTHING like Gears.

Edit : Oh lord, he even says Sony is losing money per Vita sold without giving proof, lol.
Click to expand...

Wow, it's almost like you refuse to think, or even provide logical responses.

Uncharted was a response to Gears. Sony saw Microsoft found success with a third-person, cover-based shooter, and dammit, they needed one for themselves!

As for Vita being sold at a loss, there's been no evidence that it is being sold at a profit, outside of some comment from a Vice President of SCEA from over a year ago. Instead, Sony is bleeding money, and Vita isn't meeting sales targets. It's not too absurd to believe that Vita is causing the money loss.
 
you guys, uncharted has platforming. just because its parkour-style doesnt mean it isnt some evolution of platforming that is essentially the same thing.
 
triggaz said:
There both cover base shooters. Uncharted happens to have fun platforming but horrible shooting.
Click to expand...

I didn't find the shooting in Uncharted any fun either, but it definitely is the core gameplay element. But if these semi-automatic scripted and rule bending jumps in this series are "fun platforming" I really wonder how you would describe the likes of Mario, Sonic, Rayman. "Out of this world incredible platforming"?
 
TGO said:
what I don't get is people say Sony don't advertise, but they spend loads of marketing?
So don't we see it, we know Sony is paying out for marketing but where is it?
are they spending shit loads of money on ads & forgetting to buy airtime?
don't make sense, or are they bidding for it airtime & aren't willing to match MS's stupid bids, sorry don't know it works?
Click to expand...

What? Where I live in Belgium they dont spend a single euro on advertisement. I have never seen Vita commercials nor demopods in stores. To play some Vita you have to know it exists and ask the seller to give you a demo unit.

3DS has commercials day in day out, Ive seen street advertisements in my town for Mario and there are 3DS demopods in every gamestore.
 
TGO said:
what I don't get is people say Sony don't advertise, but they spend loads of marketing?
So don't we see it, we know Sony is paying out for marketing but where is it?
are they spending shit loads of money on ads & forgetting to buy airtime?
don't make sense, or are they bidding for it airtime & aren't willing to match MS's stupid bids, sorry don't know it works?
Click to expand...

In Europe they have the UEFA Champions League deal which must cost them a huge amount but is clearly good exposure for the brand.

In the UK I usually see PS3 games advertised in cinemas more than TV. Also they have a lot of magazine deals.

Most of the complaints regarding SCE's marketing come from GAF PS3/PSP/Vita owners. Who are precisely the people Sony don't need to advertise to. :)
 
I think Naughty Dog refers to it as traversal rather than platforming.

I'm not sure what this thread is really about anymore.

Also there's something counterintuitive in concurrently blaming the PSV for the losses incurred this quarter, suggesting that Sony is selling each PSV unit at a negative margin and suggesting Sony need to sell more units...
 
shinra-bansho said:
Also there's something counterintuitive in concurrently blaming the PSV for the losses incurred this quarter, suggesting that Sony is selling each PSV unit at a negative margin and suggesting Sony need to sell more units...
Click to expand...

Not really. Selling more systems means more people need to buy memory cards and games, which is where Sony rakes in profits.
 
Green Slime said:
Wow, it's almost like you refuse to think, or even provide logical responses.

Uncharted was a response to Gears. Sony saw Microsoft found success with a third-person, cover-based shooter, and dammit, they needed one for themselves!

As for Vita being sold at a loss, there's been no evidence that it is being sold at a profit, outside of some comment from a Vice President of SCEA from over a year ago. Instead, Sony is bleeding money, and Vita isn't meeting sales targets. It's not too absurd to believe that Vita is causing the money loss.
Click to expand...

You are flat out wrong. Uncharted was in development BEFORE Gears was a hit. Gears was released in 2006, there was already a trailer of Uncharted at E3 2006. Stop pulling shit out of your ass.

Until you can prove that Vita is selling at a loss, it's not. It's not too absurd to think that it's being sold for a few bucks profit OR selling it at cost and profit from memory cards.
 
demigod said:
You are flat out wrong. Uncharted was in development BEFORE Gears was a hit. Gears was released in 2006, there was already a trailer of Uncharted at E3 2006. Stop pulling shit out of your ass.

Until you can prove that Vita is selling at a loss, it's not. It's not too absurd to think that it's being sold for a few bucks profit OR selling it at cost and profit from memory cards.
Click to expand...

Gears of War was playable at E3 2005, and it was already proving to be a big attention-getter. If you still want to ignore that, then Uncharted was a response to RE4, which was also a big hit, especially with critics. On top of that, Uncharted originally had a horror / monster theme, which clearly shows it was taking inspiration from one or both.

Now, on to the other point. No, there is no proof I can provide, but the numbers don't lie. Sony lost a LOT of money last quarter, and that includes from the gaming division. Now, you can assume that all that loss came from PS3, but that seems a little ridiculous this late into the game. Thus, logically, Vita is creating the losses.
 
Green Slime said:
Now, on to the other point. No, there is no proof I can provide, but the numbers don't lie. Sony lost a LOT of money last quarter, and that includes from the gaming division. Now, you can assume that all that loss came from PS3, but that seems a little ridiculous this late into the game. Thus, logically, Vita is creating the losses.
Click to expand...
Except the numbers don't imply the PSV is selling at a per unit loss or that the PSV "ecosystem" is generating loss.

They simply show that the game business generated 7.6B yen less in quarterly operating income Y/Y on revenues that were 19.9B yen lower. We don't know the new or old margins on the PS3, pre- and post-price drop, we don't know SG&A costs this or last year, we don't know whether segment operating income takes into account R&D afaik. There's no way to determine from that information whether Vita is selling for a negative margin.
 
Green Slime said:
Gears of War was playable at E3 2005, and it was already proving to be a big attention-getter. If you still want to ignore that, then Uncharted was a response to RE4, which was also a big hit, especially with critics. On top of that, Uncharted originally had a horror / monster theme, which clearly shows it was taking inspiration from one or both.

Now, on to the other point. No, there is no proof I can provide, but the numbers don't lie. Sony lost a LOT of money last quarter, and that includes from the gaming division. Now, you can assume that all that loss came from PS3, but that seems a little ridiculous this late into the game. Thus, logically, Vita is creating the losses.
Click to expand...

How long do you think it takes to make a game of that scale, especially on a new (and very esoteric) hardware platform? Uncharted probably went into production in 2004. It's crazy talk to say it is a response to Gears. And I don't really see any connection to RE4 either.
 
Green Slime said:
Gears of War was playable at E3 2005, and it was already proving to be a big attention-getter. If you still want to ignore that, then Uncharted was a response to RE4, which was also a big hit, especially with critics. On top of that, Uncharted originally had a horror / monster theme, which clearly shows it was taking inspiration from one or both.

Now, on to the other point. No, there is no proof I can provide, but the numbers don't lie. Sony lost a LOT of money last quarter, and that includes from the gaming division. Now, you can assume that all that loss came from PS3, but that seems a little ridiculous this late into the game. Thus, logically, Vita is creating the losses.
Click to expand...

lol, so now you're saying Uncharted was a response to RE4, what happened to it being a response to Gears? Now which game was Gears a response to btw? Why of course it's RE4. Uncharted is a mix of RE4+Tomb Raider. Get your facts straight next time before you say its a response to Gears, lol.

Your theorycraft is still wrong on Vita creating losses. Their memory cards would offset the losses. Here's a hint for you, it doesn't cost Apple more than $250 to make an Iphone 4s.
 
demigod said:
lol, so now you're saying Uncharted was a response to RE4, what happened to it being a response to Gears? Now which game was Gears a response to btw? Why of course it's RE4. Uncharted is a mix of RE4+Tomb Raider. Get your facts straight next time before you say its a response to Gears, lol.
Click to expand...

It's irrelevant if it was Gears or RE4, the point is still the same. Also, Uncharted is FAR more RE4 / Gears inspired than Tomb Raider inspired.
 
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