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Poor Vita performance dragging down Sony's entire gaming unit
- Thread starter SmokedMeat
- Start date
Metallix87
Member
It's possible. I believe it's very likely to be selling at a loss, given the data available and the fact that Sony is charging as much as they are for the memory cards.
That makes no sense to me. Sounds like you're just making speculations no? Haven't the memory cards always been overpriced since psp? Hardly anything new for them
Isn't it possible they don't lose money with every unit sold, but that because they sell so little Vita's, it is costing Sony money (since manufacturing, storage, promotion etc. all costs money which is not recovered by selling Vita's)? Or is stuff like promotion, storage and distribution not factored into the costprice?
That makes more sense. But him saying Vita is being sold at a loss because of the memory card price made no sense.
Opus Angelorum
Member
At launch Kaz stated the PSVita would be profitable in three years, and I recall in a later clarification (not by him) that each unit was not sold at a loss...but the entire platform (which included R&D/production/marketing) would take three years to 'level out'.
Reuters got the original statement fro Kaz, I'm trying to find the clarification article.
Reuters got the original statement fro Kaz, I'm trying to find the clarification article.
Metallix87
Member
I suppose it is a bit of speculation on my part, yes. In my mind, though, the reason to switch from the already proven Memory Stick Pro Duo format to a pricier, seemingly less useful memory card format was to cover the cost of something. The fact that you need a memory card just to run many games seems to hint at that as well. Of course, I could be dead wrong, but it's what makes sense to me.
Shouldn't discount the possibility that there is a large retailer margin on the memory cards, to keep them happy stocking a DD console. If Vita used cheap standard SD cards there would be fewer game sales at retail, that is obvious. Everybody assumed retailer bribery incentives was the reason for the high price of the PSP Go but nobody mentions it in relation to Vita storage.
slaughterking
Member
It seems pretty fruitless to piece together Sony's profitability from a couple statements they made. Sony has no obligation to be straightforward and unambiguous when they are interviewed, which is why people with different biases can interpret Sony's statements however they want. It's fair to assume that Sony makes things sound more positive than they actually are, but in the end nobody here really knows.
Chris23235
Banned
There were contradicting statements coming from different Sony execs, the time Kaz talked to Reuters, the original Reuters news was released on June 7th 2011:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/07/sony-idUSWEN407220110607
Ten days later Shuhei Yoshida gave IGN an Interview, in which they talked about the Vita, here he said, when asked if the Vita will be profitable at launch:
http://ie.psp.ign.com/articles/117/1177042p1.html
It's not as if they're buying the parts for each Vita one at a time.
Whether the hardware itself is profitable depends on its level of sales. If all Vitas were sold out everywhere, it would probably be profitable. But if they all sit on store shelves until retailers send them back to Sony, it's impossible to be profitable no matter how little it costs to make each one.
It's likely that although Sony planned for the hardware itself to be profitable by using parts with good economics of scale, it isn't right now due to anemic sales.
Canis lupus
Member
Since 3G model BoM is 159 dollaz, its probably making a small profit.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
At a BOM of $100, 3DS was still losing money per unit at $170.
I would guess the WiFi Vita incurs a small loss while 3G brings a small profit.
Wait it was,so now it's profitable?
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
CaptainZombie
Member
Even Cliffy has gone on record saying that RE4 was a huge inspiration for Gears and that he still wants to make a survival horror game at some point.
Projectjustice
Banned
I agree.
So the wifi vita can be profitable too standalone?
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Lucashaq said:
No, I'm just not deaf, dumb, and blind to the relentless negativity the platform has faced since its launch.
I'm also worldly and smart enough to realize how damaging this sort of reaction is when trying to appeal beyond the "core" market segment; Y'know the sort of people who skim the front-pages of the major sites and don't get further than the latest "Vita is doomed" headline.
Sony should go panic mode like Nintendo did.
Price drop
New Vita Colors
Big Marketing push
Market the hell out of LittleBigPlanet, Assassins Creed, FIFA and COD
Announce Gran Turismo for European audience
Announce Monster Hunter Portable 3rd G and Final Fantasy Type 0 HD for Japanese audience
Announce GTA San Andreas Stories for western audience
Also once Vita has hit a low price point they can start targeting the system to a wider audience, such as games for kids like Invizimals (did quite well in Europe), and EyePet. With EyePet Sony can use the advanced AR features, mic and touchscreen to make a better game than Nintendogs and Kinectimals combined. An Invizimals sequel would work well on the Vita. The PSP original needed a camera attachment and it still did quite well in Europe. If they manage to get the Vita price down, release appealing colors and have games that are targetted to not just one niche audience as well as having a bigger marketing push they can save the Vita.
Price drop
New Vita Colors
Big Marketing push
Market the hell out of LittleBigPlanet, Assassins Creed, FIFA and COD
Announce Gran Turismo for European audience
Announce Monster Hunter Portable 3rd G and Final Fantasy Type 0 HD for Japanese audience
Announce GTA San Andreas Stories for western audience
Also once Vita has hit a low price point they can start targeting the system to a wider audience, such as games for kids like Invizimals (did quite well in Europe), and EyePet. With EyePet Sony can use the advanced AR features, mic and touchscreen to make a better game than Nintendogs and Kinectimals combined. An Invizimals sequel would work well on the Vita. The PSP original needed a camera attachment and it still did quite well in Europe. If they manage to get the Vita price down, release appealing colors and have games that are targetted to not just one niche audience as well as having a bigger marketing push they can save the Vita.
But they need games (big franchise) to make the price drop work. Like many have said that dropping the price without games works only in the short term. Maybe boosts to 30k/w instead of the normal 10k/w. it won't happen this year
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
You forgot free games to people who bought this Day one. Cause really, you're welcome, Sony.
Gt and Gow will hopefully come earlier in the vita's life than psp's,it definitely desperately needs them but with ys:celceta and soul sacrifice releasing in japan this year along with the current lineup and more bundles will surely help sell the vita above 10k/w in japan....LBP vita can be a big seller too worldwide
COD and Assassins Creed are 2 of the biggest selling franchises this gen, just like GTA was the biggest selling franchise last gen. PSP got GTA in it's first year. Now Vita is going to get COD and Assassins Creed also in it's first year. To go along with these 2 games, they need to drop the price of the Vita and have a big marketing push around the same time these games release.
This is what Sony should do with what they have
Start the huge Vita Marketing Push and Price Cut - September
LittleBigPlanet - end of September
FIFA 13 (cross platform play? if so advertise it) - end of September
Assassins Creed - end of October
Call of Duty - end of November
Also other titles like Persona 4, Need for Speed, SFxT, Silent Hill, Monkey Ball, Sly 4 and PS All Stars, Smart As, Sega Racing will also release in 2012, but the above list will be the highlights as they are the top selling franchises this generation. Remember Assassins Creed bundle is going to be the same price as a Vita on it's own, I wonder if that is a clue that a standalone Vita will get a price cut.
Father_Brain
Banned
Oh, give me a break. The negativity is, at worst, only slightly worse than what 3DS faced before (and even shortly after) the price drop, and it somehow managed to rebound when the big games arrived. And 3DS was still selling much better than Vita is now!
Sales discussions do not have as big an impact as you think they do; Vita is selling poorly because it's fundamentally an undesirable product as far as the market is concerned, just as 3DS was an undesirable product before Nintendo improved the value proposition. There are not nearly enough people who follow them closely enough for what you call "Vita Doomed" threads/articles to constitute a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Chris23235
Banned
Even if I would think, that GTA San Andreas Stories would be a system seller in the west (and clearly the GTA Stories for the PSP weren't), Sony couldn't announce GTA, Final Fantasy Type 0 HD or Monster Hunter Portable 3rd G, because these games aren't Sony's properties. Even if Sony would be willing to pay for them, I think most companies would be sceptic, because developing these titles would bind development power, otherwise dedicated to more promising titles and could damage, if selling as horribly as the Vita, the franchises.
Father_Brain
Banned
Not the first time I've said this, but the notion of "panic mode Nintendo" is mostly nonsense. The 3DS turnaround was only possible because MK7, SM3DL, and MH3G were already well into development and on track for a Q4 2011 release before the price cut; unless Sony secured major as-yet-unannounced third-party titles (particularly from Japanese publishers) before launch, there isn't going to be any turnaround for Vita. TGS is pretty much the last major window for announcements of titles greenlit before launch, so we'll find out next month.
Ensuring system-sellers would be out on time, along with the price cut and ambassador program, combined to reassure customers that Nintendo understood the 3DS had a problem and they would work harder to rectify it. It showed Nintendo cared about it.
I think that's all Vita owners are looking for at this point - some acknowledgement that Sony understands there is a problem and reassurances that their purchase will be rewarded with software down the line. Just some hint that Sony cares would be welcome.
I think that's all Vita owners are looking for at this point - some acknowledgement that Sony understands there is a problem and reassurances that their purchase will be rewarded with software down the line. Just some hint that Sony cares would be welcome.
GayForMaster
Banned
Why FF7.... FF6 was infinitely superior. Either way you don't want the new team remaking gem final fantasies. They'll probably ruin it.
All speculation here:
Killzone is in development
Gran Turismo Vita could be in development (there was also a poll from Sony about a Vita Gran Turismo)
GTA San Andreas Stories would not be as hard to make if they can reuse assets (again there was also a poll fro GTA Vita)
Monster Hunter Portable 3rd HD showed up a few times in retailer listings and a HD port shouldn't be hard to do anyway
Assassins Creed is coming, remember this is one of the biggest selling franchises this gen
COD is coming, same as above
LittleBigPlanet is coming, while not a huge seller, this title can show of the Vita's features quite a big, Sony should give it a marekting push
PS Battle All Stars is coming though it is also available to PS3
Also both MediaMolecule and Guerilla Games are rumoured to be developing a Vita game
And you never know they can be saving Japabn game announcements for TGS
Obviously none of those titles are big as Mario, but Assassins Creed and COD are big names. PS Battle Allstars is also available on PS3 but it is still cool to have it on Vita and be cross compatible. And Monster Hunter, GTA and Gran Turismo announcements would also be big for the Vita.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Father_Brain said:
If you'd actually read my first post, you'd see I was talking about building mindshare, which is kind of an important deal when you are trying to grow off of a modest success like the PSP as opposed to the global market leader which was Nintendo's position.
I'm not talking about "sales discussions" either, I'm talking about the specialist media's generally gloomy outlook for the platform which could be gauged by simply scanning headlines, not the content of articles.
If you think that has no impact, you're essentially saying positive marketing is ineffectual, which I think is an extremely ignorant opinion to hold.
Btw. Thanks for reminding me why I dislike taking part in discussions on this subject. Too much snark and not enough intelligent debate.
Intelligent debate?
If i remember correctly you were in another thread painting the PS3 as as a success because of "cashflow"
Metallix87
Member
Yamauchi said a week or two ago that a Gran Turismo for Vita wasn't in the works, and if PD ever did make one, he'd want to find some beneficial use for 3G.
electroplankton
Banned
Seriously.
The only move Nintendo was forced to take was the price cut. Colors, games, announcements, etc. were all planned before the 3DS was released.
A big seller?
How many units it sold on PSP? Just asking.
Big names =/= big names on handheld.
As for Monster Hunter, Capcom is working on 4 for 3DS, a new Monster Hunter on Vita seems unlikely; if that's a port of Portable 3rd, that'd be useless market-wise.
GoofsterStud
Member
Hardware wise it wouldn't make sense for it to be selling at a loss. Unless they got royally screwed somewhere. I think they are just keeping it high tell they recoup R&D. This includes R&D for the memory cards.
I think that's a big part of the reason they don't care at this point. Once they recoup fees I see price drops incoming, but not until then. They aren't in a position to sell Vita at a loss. There isn't enough software being developed for it at the moment to assume they will recoup.
Is currently the only reason I am considering a Vita. So it is at the very least a system seller for me, if good and utilizes the touch screen, maybe not a big system seller, but it's still a system seller.
Father_Brain
Banned
Oh, please. I admittedly could have been clearer, but by "sales discussions," I meant to include articles discussing Vita's poor sales, not just message board threads. I follow Kotaku/Destructoid/Joystiq/Eurogamer et al. fairly closely, and I'd be pretty surprised if you or anyone else can make a credible argument that Vita coverage on those sites over the past few months is significantly more negative than what 3DS got in spring/summer of last year (or that NGP/Vita coverage at the time wasn't mainly positive).
Would 3DS have sold better pre-price-drop if the various gloom-n'-doom articles had been replaced by positive reports about how SM3DL and MK7 would surely turn around sales for the holidays? Maybe. But to a statistically significant extent? I doubt it. Same with Vita. The enthusiast gaming press simply don't have as much sway as you think they do; when hardware is selling poorly, it's for more fundamental reasons than any amount of positive media coverage can change.
I meant it's a big seller on the ps3 but on psp it sold over 2 million as disclosed by sony,i can't find the article now but if i do i'll post a link
electroplankton
Banned
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Again, don't look at the name of the game... look at who the developer is behind them. These are not the main developers working on Vita games like the console games you mentioned so the quality will not be the same. See Resistance on Vita as an example.
There is no way that LBP regardless of quality did 2 million on PSP. Looking forward to that link.
Sry i thought it did,though i didn't mean to come off as being fully informed i definitely heard it was the case can't remember where though,electro can u please give the breakdown you have since you seem to know the sales figures of lbp series?
Loghorn150
Banned
Speaking of 3rd party support for Vita, it's just starting to get more worse for the platform in that category.
Sony Having Difficult Time Getting Third Party Support For The PS Vita.
No shit, Sony, when your own first party is not making games for Vita, what did you expect for others?
Pretty much. I'd consider it better if Sony allowed devs like Bend to create new IPs than stick them with already existing IPs that some consider an inferior product.
Wow, they're pointing to Assassin's Creed to be the proof of 3rd-party success?
They really have no fucking clue anymore, do they?
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
This is pretty much what I think too. Nintendo does not discriminate when it comes to its handhelds and puts its best and brightest to work on games for it. Why would any 3rd party publisher/developer in their right mind risk their own resources on it when sony dosen't seem to care? They need to get their act together or just don't bother making any future handhelds.
