Support NeoGAF

[kame-sennin]

It's a fact that people of color are worse off than white Americans in all kinds of ways, but there is little agreement on why. Some see those disparities as a consequence of racial discrimination in schools, the courts and the workplace, both in the past and present. Others argue that economic inequalities are really the cause, and that public policy should help the poor no matter their race or ethnicity. When it comes to affirmative action in college admissions, for example, many say that children from poor, white families should receive preferential treatment, as well.

In some ways, though, discrimination against people of color is more complicated and fundamental than economic inequality. A stark new finding epitomizes that reality: In recent decades, rich black kids have been more likely to go to prison than poor white kids.

"Race trumps class, at least when it comes to incarceration," said Darrick Hamilton of the New School, one of the researchers who produced the study.

He and his colleagues, Khaing Zaw and William Darity of Duke University, examined data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, a national study that began in 1979 and followed a group of young people into adulthood and middle age. The participants were asked about their assets and debts, and interviewers also noted their type of residence, including whether they were in a jail or prison.

The researchers grouped participants in the survey by their race and their household wealth as of 1985 and then looked back through the data to see how many people in each group ultimately went to prison. Participants who were briefly locked up between interviews might not be included in their calculations of the share who were eventually incarcerated.

About 2.7 percent of the poorest white young people — those whose household wealth was in the poorest 10th of the distribution in 1985, when they were between 20 and 28 years old — ultimately went to prison. In the next 10th, 3.1 percent ultimately went to prison.

The households of young people in both of these groups had more debts than assets. In other words, their wealth was negative. All the same, their chances of being imprisoned were far less than those of black youth from much more affluent circumstances.

About 10 percent of affluent black youths in 1985 would eventually go to prison. Only the very wealthiest black youth — those whose household wealth in 1985 exceeded $69,000 in 2012 dollars — had a better chance of avoiding prison than the poorest white youth. Among black young people in this group, 2.4 percent were incarcerated.

Hispanic participants who were less affluent in 1985 were more likely to be eventually incarcerated than their white peers with similar wealth, but less likely than black participants.

What's more, even young black people who follow the rules and are never incarcerated are less likely than similar white people to accumulate wealth as they get older. As of 2012, the median household wealth of black participants in the study who had never been incarcerated at some point in their lives was $16,200. Those who had been incarcerated had zero wealth at the median.

Among white participants who had never been incarcerated, however, median household wealth was $192,000 by 2012. The median white participant who had been incarcerated reported wealth of $5,000.

It could be that the white participants in the study still had other advantages over their black peers, even if they had been incarcerated. Perhaps they went to better schools, or lived in areas where it was easier to find work. At the same time, another reason for the disparity between black and white wealth could be that employers make negative inferences about black workers' pasts, even those who have never been to prison.

In 2001, for example, economist Harry Holzer and his colleagues found that employers who actually checked applicants' criminal histories were much more likely to hire black men. Similarly, recent research shows that employers who are barred from checking credit histories are less likely to take on black workers.

In a way, untangling economic and racial inequalities is a chicken-and-egg problem. In criminal justice, though, you can't just explain away the disproportionate rates at which black and Hispanic youths end up in prison by pointing out that many people of color did not grow up with the same economic advantages as their white peers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-likely-to-go-to-prison-than-rich-black-kids/

 

[XenodudeX]

What the fuck

 

[Slayven]

and this why i will always say that people that say racism is a class issue are naive as fuck.

 

[Valhelm]

Jesus, that's awful

 

[soundscream]

No shock at all. Economics don't mean shit when it comes to racism, despite what some try to say.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Not surprising. Falls in line with white kids with only HS diplomas having better job prospects than black kids with college degrees and every other example of systemic racism.

It's why I didn't understand why people got mad at Bernie's comment about white people not knowing what it's like to be poor. "Black poor" includes a whole bunch of extra racial baggage

 

[theignoramus]

Cold hard facts for our white socialist friends who insist that poverty and class warfare, not race, is the root cause of racial disparities in the justice system.

 

[googleplex]

One of the reason Bernie Sanders continues to miss the point when he continuously links income inequality as the root of institutionalized racism.

 

[tearsintherain]

Is this really a surprise with the drug war? If you are a white (college) kid caught buying drugs you are told to stay out of dangerous neighborhoods and let off with a warning. If you are a black or hispanic kid caught anywhere near drugs you are treated as a member of the Crips and lucky to not get killed on the spot.

Our entire war on drugs has really screwed up so many parts of society for decades now, from minority families not having two parents to prison overcrowding to police turning into a heavily armed para-military who respond to everything with wildly excessive force.

On the positive side we are slowly starting to realize it as a society and rolling back some things, but its taken us 40 years to get into this hole and it will take us just as long to crawl back out.

 

[JordanN]

One of the reason Bernie Sanders continues to miss the point when he continuously links income inequality to institutionalized racism.

But how is he wrong?

Do you have a quote where he says that's the only reason for racism?

 

[Xe4]

Wow. Definetly not something I expected. I know this is due to racism, but what specifically is the driving factor behind this? Th war on drugs?

 

[bachikarn]

I think economic inequality still plays a part. If we lived in a world where most black people are rich, I would guess that less rich black kids would get arrested than in our world.

Basically the economic inequality contributes to the racist perception by people, which then hurts all black people.

 

[zero shift]

Household income of $69,000 is "rich"?

 

[Slayven]

Wow. Definetly not something I expected. I know this is due to racism, but what specifically is the driving factor behind this? Th war on drugs?

Racism and money

America has monetized the crimilization of being Black.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

Household income of $68,000 is "rich"?

This is in the 60s and 80s.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Household income of $68,000 is "rich"?

These are 1985 dollars if I'm reading this right. That's about 150,000 in today money.

vvvvv edit: whelp I don't know then.

 

[zero shift]

This is in the 60s and 80s.

These are 1985 dollars if I'm reading this right. That's about 150,000 in today money.

Maybe I am misinterpreting this.

Only the very wealthiest black youth — those whose household wealth in 1985 exceeded $69,000 in 2012 dollars — had a better chance of avoiding prison than the poorest white youth. Among black young people in this group, 2.4 percent were incarcerated.

 

[kirblar]

Not surprising. Falls in line with white kids with only HS diplomas having better job prospects than black kids with college degrees and every other example of systemic racism.

It's why I didn't understand why people got mad at Bernie's comment about white people not knowing what it's like to be poor. "Black poor" includes a whole bunch of extra racial baggage

That wasn't the quote - it was about white people not knowing what it was like to live in a ghetto. He didn't say "white people don't know what it's like to be black" or "....to be poor." He specifically referenced "the ghetto". There are a lot of negative implications you can take away from the statement, but one specific implication is that he sees these issues as specific to poor black people and not black people as a whole.

As this report shows, these are not issues that get solved by just having a big bank account.

But how is he wrong?

Do you have a quote where he says that's the only reason for racism?

Bernie clearly subscribes to an antiquated Socialist/Marxist/etc-ist class-based model of inequality. Because he views money as the root of all the issues- race is filtered through this lens (instead of being a different lens layered on top of all the other issues.

re: 69K - it's likely lower than the normal bar because they're adjusting it to account for the lower average income level among black families in the US. Would agree that "rich" is a weird descriptor to use.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Maybe there were not a significant number of black youth whose income exceeded that threshold, and therefore the statement "wealthiest black youth" is accurate. Calling them "rich" does seem like a judgment call, though.

Maybe I am misinterpreting this.

I think you're right. I only looked at the graph and assumed too much.

 

[bishoptl]

and this why i will always say that people that say racism is a class issue are naive as fuck.

This was already known, and why I don't bother with that Pollyanna shit.

 

[Angelus Errare]

and this why i will always say that people that say racism is a class issue are naive as fuck.

Yup.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

This is no surprise to those who know how it is

 

[Future]

Drug crimes are the most obvious application. White people do as much drugs as anyone else but much less likely to get Put in jail for it

I think it has to do with relatability. Most judges and people of power are probably not of color. Even if not racist, they just can't relate to people of different races the same way. So the law comes down harder on them naturally, even if not intentional, but just by nature of having less diverse representation in people that enforce the law. It's some bullshit

 

[dave is ok]

$69,000 a year isn't rich. That's two parents making 35k each.

The real problem is that is considered "rich" for a black family.

 

[Chariot]

One of the reason Bernie Sanders continues to miss the point when he continuously links income inequality as the root of institutionalized racism.

He isn't going to raise taxes and then lean back. He has more to his program than just income inequality, especially when it comes to the wretched prison system and the fact that police is more likely to go on people of colour. Finances are a big issue for Bernie, no doubt, but he knows that this is only a part of many problems. He will work on multiple fronts.

 

[royalan]

and this why i will always say that people that say racism is a class issue are naive as fuck.

Amen.

 

[Yaboosh]

I think economic inequality still plays a part. If we lived in a world where most black people are rich, I would guess that less rich black kids would get arrested than in our world.

Basically the economic inequality contributes to the racist perception by people, which then hurts all black people.

The hatred of black people caused the economic inequality though.

 

[Stallion Dan]

I'd like to see for what crimes.

 

[Suite Pee]

This was already known, and why I don't bother with that Pollyanna shit.

A new word for my vocabulary.

 

[Nikodemos]

Wasn't there a rapper back in the '90s (I think) who remarked "It don't matter how much money you got; to them you'll always be just a nigger"?

 

[Goldenroad]

Jesus, that's awful

I know what you mean, but I can read this comment as, "only poor people should be going to jail. It's awful that people with money should be incarcerated."

 

[MysticDistance]

Sadly, I'm not even surprised. It's always been about racism when it comes to this, not economics. Either are bad.

 

[royalan]

Wasn't there a rapper back in the '90s (I think) who remarked "It don't matter how much money you got; to them you'll always be just a nigger"?

I'm sure some rapper did say it, but it's also generally a thing black people say. An understanding that many of us feel we have to pass on. My grandaddy was the first to tell me that.

 

[Kreed]

But how is he wrong?

Do you have a quote where he says that's the only reason for racism?

When he was first asked about this issue early in his campaign, fixing economic inequality was the only solution he provided for the problem. After being criticized, he started acknowledging other aspects of inequality in ethnic groups, but he still relies heavily on economic inequality explanations since that's where he's most knowledgeable.

While Bernie isn't "wrong" that economics plays a role in many issues black, latino, and other non-white ethnic groups face in the United States, it only plays a part in a larger problem and definitely isn't the main way to address the issue as this article illustrates and why Bernie continues to get criticized for relying so heavily on it.

 

[The Cool One]

Ye said it best
"Even if you in a Benz, you still a n**** in a coupe"

 

[noshten]

Entirely expected, unsurprising and depressing

 

[Tesseract]

How do Asians fair, is there accompanying data in the complete survey?

 

[RespectThySole]

Wasn't there a rapper back in the '90s (I think) who remarked "It don't matter how much money you got; to them you'll always be just a nigger"?

Kanye said something similar in 2004. Song is called All Falls Down.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Wasn't there a rapper back in the '90s (I think) who remarked "It don't matter how much money you got; to them you'll always be just a nigger"?

This is common knowledge, and many celebrities have said something like it. To enough people, you really are just a nigger. Even when you travel outside of the country.

 

[Cipherr]

Cold hard facts for our white socialist friends who insist that poverty and class warfare, not race, is the root cause of racial disparities in the justice system.

Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis!

 

[Condom]

No shock at all. Economics don't mean shit when it comes to racism, despite what some try to say.

What a weird conclusion, economics does impact institutionalized racism. Who owns the capital in America? How do you influence the system? Now go and try tell me economics doesn't play a role with racism.

 

[East Lake]

Here's the paper if anyone wants to read it.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12552-016-9164-y

 

[entremet]

Institutional Racism 101.

 

[bachikarn]

The hatred of black people caused the economic inequality though.

It is definitely a negative feed back loop at this point.

I definitely don't think that economic inequality is the only reason, but I think if we did things to help economic inequality it would issues with race, although slowly.

 

[Nipo]

I didn't see it in the study but did they also hold urbanization rate constant?

 

[Thaedolus]

Come on guys we've had a black president, racism died officially in 2008

 

[Transistor]

See? It's not all about the 1%! It's about good old fashioned racism, one of the four cornerstones of America:

Jesus
Guns
Racism
Diabetes

 

[entremet]

What a weird conclusion, economics does impact institutionalized racism. Who owns the capital in America? How do you influence the system? Now go and try tell me economics doesn't play a role with racism.

I agree. It's why tackling the economy is easier than changing hearts.

 

[Tesseract]

Cold hard facts for our white socialist friends who insist that poverty and class warfare, not race, is the root cause of racial disparities in the justice system.

Isn't this a tautology, you need to be more specific

 

[kame-sennin]

Cold hard facts for our white socialist friends who insist that poverty and class warfare, not race, is the root cause of racial disparities in the justice system.

Yup.

One of the reason Bernie Sanders continues to miss the point when he continuously links income inequality as the root of institutionalized racism.

Yeah, and this is why he should have hit Hilary harder on mass incarceration. Although, he isn't completely blameless either.