what is this supposed to mean? from living many years in japan I'd say their attitude on general is as healthy if not more than what we have in many countries here in the west.
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Possession of Child Porn now illegal in Japan... exc. in anime, games etc
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what is this supposed to mean? from living many years in japan I'd say their attitude on general is as healthy if not more than what we have in many countries here in the west.
Monocle
Member
Fair point, well stated.
encephalon
Member
It's just an "age difference relationship!"
Shuggananas
Banned
Eh, you don't have to be a serial killer to kill people in a game, but masturbating to lolicon makes you a pedophile pretty much
That's my distinction
Wiktor
Member
I doubt the only japanese people who read/watch all that manga/anime child porn are pedeophiles. It's way to widespread in Japan for that to be the case.
Of course there also the whole problem that a lot of people on this board seem to think anything with non-adults (ie..less than 18 years) in it is pedo porn and everyone who watches it is a pedeophile. So it obscures the whole discussion, because there;s a world of difference between some middle aged japanese salary men enjoying a comic about naughty highschoolers and a dude reading porn about somebody who didn't even hit puberty yet. And in this case I believe japan banned any pornographic materials with minors in them, so extending that ban to cartoons would be pretty silly.
If you would want to curb the most vile mangas you would need a new law specifically adressing fictional characters instead of trying to use for it a law designed to protect genuine humans as standards for protection of actual persons will obviously be a lot higher.
Monocle
Member
It's the guy characters dating 4000-year-old dragons in the forms of 6-year-olds who should feel weird. If anything, the
This is like the plot of Let the Right One In.
If it is contributing to a subculture that is morally reprehensible and negatively affects children, shouldn't it be banned?
lol
what do you even mean by valid life choice? How can sexual orientation ever be a choice? I can kinda agree with the notion that allowing drawn depictions might have some small minuscule destructive effect but banning it will have far more damaging consequences reaching far beyond the pedophiles it's aimed against. I think it's far more dangerous to take steps into thought crime territory than the possible upside of unprovable prevention of crimes influenced by drawings.
it speaks volumes that this is all you have to say on the matter.
Paracelsus
Member
she can be all of those
her default form is the leftmost one
by far the most popular character in the Light Novel
Gordon Shumway
Banned
For masturbating..which is "ok"..because it's not a real child..hope that clears things up..
It Is largely illegal and people have been convicted over "obscene Japanese anime cartoons" and "explicit lolicon manga."
Legal status of cartoon pornography depicting minors
American society isnt in shambles because of these laws so you can stop with the thought crime fear mongering. Japan will be just fine stepping up to the same level as comparable societies.
The Albatross
Member
Wow, I would have thought this happened a long time ago. Good on them, I suppose.
You can't convict people for thought crime. The primary reason child pornography is illegal is because it entails the sexual abuse of minors. It's not about whether or not you think the actual practices are acceptable. With animated / drawn scenes, this problematic doesn't exist because it is entirely fictitious.
Chainsawkitten
Member
No.
I support that obvious cases should be banned from being sold or exposed in media. What I'm talking about is doodling on a paper.
They're only going to plug their ears and go "lalalalalala" when you point this out.
case in point
How do you feel about banning the confederate flag?
So what you're saying is there are grey areas? Then isn't it awesome that the law is enforced using human beings that pass judgement rather than some binary computer? Crazy, I know!
King Gilga
Member
You're defending loli shit by comparing it to homosexuality?
Fucking anime avatars...
But seriously, that's not a fair comparison, don't do it. Comparing child porn, real or virtual, to two consenting adults doesn't work.
Who do you think likes loli stuff? Pedos that's who. And those people shouldn't be in society, end of.
People who like that shit are the scum of the earth.
Chainsawkitten
Member
It obviously shouldn't be banned, but that's not what people's been talking about (and doing things about). The recent events haven't been about whether people should be allowed to wield the confederate flags in the privacy of their own home, or even publically on their pickup truck. It's been about displaying it at eg. statehouses which is obviously inappropriate. But that has nothing to do with whether idiots get to wear it on their shirts, etc. I don't think anyone's really clamoring for a ban.
To be clear, I don't think state houses should be flying flags with cartoon depictions of naked children on them either.
I don't think there are any grey areas when doodling on a paper. there are no victims and no damage. there is no crime not even morally because no such obligations exist with fantasies.
Nice... Go on.
Saying that a country, whose suicide rate is absurdly high, whose population is dying off from age, and who is xenophobic as fuck, has a healthy attitude is dumb as all hell.
edit: also you sure moved your goalposts from "what's wrong with fantasizing?!" to "well, what if it was a vague doodle?"
Chainsawkitten
Member
I don't think those are a result of, or cause of, their attitude toward youth.
Let him speak. His insight on Japan is facinating.
he said attitude in general. read
Er, just to be clear, what exactly are you suggesting be done with pedophiles(ones who haven't acted on their urges).
King Gilga
Member
Forced to get help and separated until deemed worthy.
I think pedophiles should be accepted by society as individuals with a sickness (but not having the sickness be their identity) and we should in general improve our attitudes towards mental illnesses.
what we shouldn't do with them is try and validate their illness, what we definitely never ever 100% shouldn't do is market goods towards that illness.
Wiktor
Member
I don't think any civilized society should be comfortable with punishing people before they even attempt any crime.
King Gilga
Member
Which is why lolicon stuff should be illegal. And possession a crime.
Chainsawkitten
Member
Yes, which in the context of the post I found quite reasonable to interpret as "attitude toward youth in general", as the attitude toward youth is a very broad topic which has both positive and negative parts. Of course I can't speak for what he meant, but that was my interpretation.
But in the case of pedophiles it's like anger issues. You don't have to actually so something to think about getting help. I think there should always be free options to seek anonymously help for pedophiles. Where they can go without getting judged and work preventively towards not ever living out their urges. This would be something reasonable, right?
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btw. do we have some statistics regard child porn and sex offenders that target children? I would like to know how the numbers in certain countries are.
striferser
Huge Nickleback Fan
Most poster in this thread probably didn't know or care that those who like loli/shota stuff doesn't always mean they view RL children the same way...
Again, what are the sources that links masturbating to a drawing to peadophilia apart from your own discomfort. We keep assuming that people can't or don't make a difference between a drawing and an actual child.
This is the same argument that so many had against violent video games with a different stroke of paint, where people want to ban said games because it may or may not trigger violent behaviour, who knows, but let's do it anyway. Gamers can't make the difference between virtual violence and real violence after all
So what you're saying is that it shouldn't be banned because there may be a situation in the future where the police with a search warrant might go into someone's home and find a vague drawing that may or may not be of a child, and that our current first world judicial systems wouldn't be able to pass judgement on that doodle?
I don't think that reasoning for keeping drawn child pornography legal is too sound. That would be like saying, if you were angry with the recent news with that 19-year-old convicted of statutory rape because his partner lied to him about her age, that we should get rid of all age of consent laws.
#notallpedophiles
I am on your side, mate. Art should be free and seperate and lolicons are not necessary pedophiles or even dangerous for children. I was generally talking about pedophiles, because they are people that need help. And getting them their help instead of pushing them in the shadow where we can't see them is healthier for everyone.
Does the rationale that drawn and other fictitious depictions cause people to seek out harder material and actually cause harm hold water?
I'd be interested in seeing some studies addressing the issue specifically.
Because more general studies I've seen of porn and its affect on rape and sexual crimes is generally either indeterminate... or actually in favour of porn (i.e. it causes a mild reduction in sexual crime).
Because having a sexual outlet that doesn't cause harm, while actually been a factor in harm reduction is probably exactly what we need.
I mean... it's not like you can cure a pedophile of pedophilia any more than you can cure a homosexual of homosexuality. You can get them into relationships with consenting adults, but that doesn't actually reduce their pedophilic urges or desires. If mitigating desires were a successful strategy, the whole abstaining strategy would've worked a whole lot better for all sorts of people been persecuted over their sexual desires over the course of our history.
If we can provide no-harm outlets for fulfilling them sexually, we should - if only so that we're utterly consistent with why we want to stop the behaviour in the first place (i.e. reducing harm to children). Because if it's not causing harm, and we seek to suppress the behaviour anyway... that's causing harm to the pedophiles - and yeah, we should consider the harm that we inflict on those that we feel are in the wrong (otherwise we only continue the cycle of ignorance and othering begetting more harm).
Any stance other than seeking to reduce overall harm for society is basically just moral hypocrisy - people subscribing to arbitrary rules with emotions of disgust been the primary motivator, wanting to impose their views upon others to their detriment.
Wiktor
Member
Oh sure. But that's very different from forcing those people to get help and separating them from rest of society, which the poster I was replying to wanted. e Not only would that be unfair, but also very very dumb, as all it would achieve is ensuring those people who have those urges and want to control them would be afraid of seeking help.
You can literally kill thousands of people, even kids, in videogames and it's ok because it's a representation. You can read about minor sex, violence, raping, genocide in books, and it's ok.
But a depiction of a minor sex is suddendly "sick in the head" and should be legally prosecutable?
Double standards how do they work. Do you realize the moment you consume actual porn you're actually promoting an industry that treat ACTUAL women like shit? Like how this cognitive dissonance even work, is this just a "holier than thou" moment to stroke your ego? Did you feel good writing that? I sorta did but mostly i was angry writing this.
Keep thought crimes for distopias please.
But a depiction of a minor sex is suddendly "sick in the head" and should be legally prosecutable?
Double standards how do they work. Do you realize the moment you consume actual porn you're actually promoting an industry that treat ACTUAL women like shit? Like how this cognitive dissonance even work, is this just a "holier than thou" moment to stroke your ego? Did you feel good writing that? I sorta did but mostly i was angry writing this.
Keep thought crimes for distopias please.
Ding ding ding. Thank you. I wonder who ever would do such a thing! /s
Oh right, right, sorry.
Well for that point, I myself am torn on the issue. My ex of a long time ago was abused as a child and to say I am not fond towards them is putting it lightly. But again, my practical self knows that a society that doesn't also tend towards at least some care to any kind of mentally ill (or at least those who do seek help and acknowledge that problem) wouldn't be very fair.
I would say i'd be favour of an outlet, something anonymous obviously but also with the usual control towards certain jobs that deal with the care of children, obviously. It's a super hard thing to "predict" too and very touchy obviously, looking at the thread, but in the end, would rather have the "innocent until proven guilty" than precog bullshit
EDIT: I would say also that the law is not exactly grey (except when it deals with racial prejudice in the US and elsewhere where it becomes surprisingly biased, but that's a discussion for somewhere else). The law IS basically used as "black or whtie" classification system. It usually sets a precedent. Of course there are cases of jurisprudence sometimes that can help, but in the end, in the words of Neil Gaiman "The Law is a huge blunt weapon that does not and will not make distinctions between what you find acceptable and what you don't. This is how the Law is made."
Our fascination with violence is a very complicated issue, some say it's cultural, some say it's a natural part of human existence. And while there isn't a direct connection with, say, violent videogames and school shootings, I think that violent media does have an influencing affect on our society. Look at how videogames helped gun manufacturers profit. Look at how the American Government funded videogames as a recruiting tool, and is glad to consult videogame companies for their military shooters.
Regardless of that,
Regardless of that,
This is a bad comparison to make that only serves to sully videogames. The only way in which that comparison works is if violent videogames only appealed to schizophrenics, and in that case I'd be alright with banning!
if you take it out of context and condense it like that while throwing in some good ol western moralization then sure it looks "dumb as hell". But let's not do that.
suicide rates are high but not absurd comparing to the rest of the world. for comparison japan has around 18 per 100k, while usa 12 and sweden 11, south korea has 28.
japan has comparable fertility rates with many developed countries(basically the same as germany), it's an issue of economics, not attitude. while many western countries offset this by immigration japan doesn't which makes it look like they produce less children when in reality it's about the same. Which leads us into the xenophobia argument which is where the western moralization is most apparent. The problem I have with the argument is that many expect multiculturalism as a default paradigm(while neglecting its many flaws) which might make sense in an individualistic society(like most western are) but japan is a collectivist society and this is a far greater adjustment for foreigners to make than learning a language or keeping customs in mind. If you don't understand that part about japan, you can give up on ever understating its culture.
I'm not saying there aren't issues that shouldn't be worked on but the underlying reasons and ultimately desirable solutions are most likely not what you have in mind.
Because people that consume animated child porn must have the sincere and invasive thought to fuck real kids? How can you not see that this argument is absurd.
I know for sure that since i watch interracial i wanna be black # transracial #idon'tseeskincolor #letmebeblack #i'mawigga
almost double is pretty absurd
Yes? Or are you speaking from experience?
Never heard of that show, is it exclusively watched by people with a specific mental illness?
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Not surprised at the people calling anime avatars everything short of pedophilic. It is infuriating, however.
è£ ç²æªé¬¼ææ£
Banned
You sure are one simple-minded dude. This isn't how this whole wanking to 2D porn thing works for many people.
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