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[Shangounchained]

Mainly the price, $130 for the console/controller/3 months of service, people like cheap, that is why the Wii did what it did back in the day, not to mention the fact you basically just need a controller and a Chromecast to turn any TV into a super powered game system. I just know Google has really deep pockets so they won't bow down without a fight, I am sure they have dumped a TON of money into this project because it is such a huge market. Haha, don't joke about the quantum computer, just imagine all the ray tracing being done with a quantum computer, that would be unbeatable if they managed something like that, luckily outside of breaking cryptography they are still scrathing their heads on how to use a quantum computer in everyday tasks since it works much differently than how a normal processor works.

Mainly the price, $130 for the console/controller/3 months of service, people like cheap, that is why the Wii did what it did back in the day, not to mention the fact you basically just need a controller and a Chromecast to turn any TV into a super powered game system. I just know Google has really deep pockets so they won't bow down without a fight, I am sure they have dumped a TON of money into this project because it is such a huge market. Haha, don't joke about the quantum computer, just imagine all the ray tracing being done with a quantum computer, that would be unbeatable if they managed something like that, luckily outside of breaking cryptography they are still scrathing their heads on how to use a quantum computer in everyday tasks since it works much differently than how a normal processor works.

No bro I've seen this so many times, it's not just the pricing, there's a bunch of game streaming services that still fail, people just don't but that maybe if they tap into their mobile gaming market,. Look at Nintendo the Wii beat the PS3 and 360 really bad even besides the other machines being more powerfull

Nintendo have always been here to stay because yes they are innovative like the Wii and switch but also because we grew up with them, stadia as cheap as they are they can't break this market,

Once ms or Sony reveal their next maxhines everybody will be running wild jumping all directions and queuing for months just to buy and touch one, once they show a god of war 5 demo it'll be the nail in the coffin for Google cause everybody will wank that day!

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

I would say 16gb gddr + 1tb nand flash
Will be cheap and performant if the flash controller is good enough.

I'm going with 16-24GB HBM2 with 1TB NAND SSD with a GPU that has SSG so GPU has direct access to the SSD bypassing the CPU/PCIe Bus/Etc.

 

[Sosokrates]

Oh goodie, hope we have open worlds more detailed and vast then ever before! Thanks to this tech.

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

No bro I've seen this so many times, it's not just the pricing, there's a bunch of game streaming services that still fail, people just don't but that maybe if they tap into their mobile gaming market,. Look at Nintendo the Wii beat the PS3 and 360 really bad even besides the other machines being more powerfull

Nintendo have always been here to stay because yes they are innovative like the Wii and switch but also because we grew up with them, stadia as cheap as they are they can't break this market,

Once ms or Sony reveal their next maxhines everybody will be running wild jumping all directions and queuing for months just to buy and touch one, once they show a god of war 5 demo it'll be the nail in the coffin for Google cause everybody will wank that day!

True, but none of them were Google! I do think the next gen consoles will undoubltly look better than Stadia, but again Stadia is very scalable and has the ability to easily overtake both of them in graphics quality. I think it is ridiculous too that people would want to give money to something like that, but I also though DLC/Lootboxes/Microtransactions were a joke when they first started and now look at the landscape...

 

[LordOfChaos]

It's not going to happen, but if it has SSG technology, god I hope Other OS comes back. A dedicated card is iirc $5999 to start off with without the rest of the computer attached. SSG accessible in a 4-500 dollar console could be a return to when academics were buying the PS3 for Cell compute, the USAF even made a high performance cluster out of it.

 

[Shangounchained]

True, but none of them were Google! I do think the next gen consoles will undoubltly look better than Stadia, but again Stadia is very scalable and has the ability to easily overtake both of them in graphics quality. I think it is ridiculous too that people would want to give money to something like that, but I also though DLC/Lootboxes/Microtransactions were a joke when they first started and now look at the landscape...

At this point in time where by a PS4 can easily do 30fps 1080 on complex graphical games like uncharted 4, death stranding nd a Xbox one X can pull full 4k on a game like red dead 2, I think the graphics gap is too thin, I don't see how the stadia no matter how scalable can show a difference compared to other next gen consoles,

I mean really what? Besides outputting more framerates than the competition there's nothing else really, even Xbox one X didn't stop people from buying a playstation! I think as we've seen this gen the graphics battle has gotten smaller and smaller the big difference was and is exclusives, I'll buy a ps for god of war, a Xbox for halo, a Nintendo for mario kart and Google for browsing!

 

[psorcerer]

I have checked the ssg materials and it's much simpler then people think.
It's just two ssd's with their own flash controllers attached to pcie3 bridge connected to gpu.
It really costs nothing. No new tech there apart from software.

 

[Shangounchained]

It's not going to happen, but if it has SSG technology, god I hope Other OS comes back. A dedicated card is iirc $5999 to start off with without the rest of the computer attached. SSG accessible in a 4-500 dollar console could be a return to when academics were buying the PS3 for Cell compute, the USAF even made a high performance cluster out of it.

It's 6000$ because it's not mass market it was more like a Dev kit for professionals but if Sony or Microsoft want it on their consoles it'll be a good deal for amd it's simply a ssd on a GPU what's so expensive about that? If apple made 200 iPhones every year one iPhone would cost a million pounds

 

[Shangounchained]

I have checked the ssg materials and it's much simpler then people think.
It's just two ssd's with their own flash controllers attached to pcie3 bridge connected to gpu.
It really costs nothing. No new tech there apart from software.

That was the early set Dev kit go check the final retail one with Vega gpu

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I'm going with 16-24GB HBM2 with 1TB NAND SSD with a GPU that has SSG so GPU has direct access to the SSD bypassing the CPU/PCIe Bus/Etc.

At that price, get ready to say hi to a $600 PS5...and that's maybe with Sony taking a slight loss. HBM2 per GB is just going to be notably more expensive than GDDR6 and that's even with Sony getting it from AMD directly baked onto the board.

They can maybe get 8GB of HBM2, maybe 12...but anything more is strongly pushing it. I personally wouldn't mind 8GB HBM2/32GB 3D Xpoint/1 TB QLC NAND interfaced to GPU as an extended cache (SSG-style) myself. Would love to see how that does against 24GB GDDR6 and SSD over NVMe PCIe 4.0 for storage (MS's possible solution; granted PS5 will have that too, but maybe x2 PCIe 4.0 on NVMe for Sony and x4 PCIe 4.0 on NVMe for MS)

I have checked the ssg materials and it's much simpler then people think.
It's just two ssd's with their own flash controllers attached to pcie3 bridge connected to gpu.
It really costs nothing. No new tech there apart from software.

If that's the case then it's looking a lot more likely it could be part of Sony's setup. I'm gonna call it now: 8GB HBM2, 32GB 3D Xpoint NAND, 1TB QLC NAND as extended cache and NVMe on x2 PCIe 4.0 for optional storage drive.

It just seems quite plausible at this point honestly. Plus they could do some further customizations on the SSG-like side of things (they'd be using PCIe 4.0 or hell maybe even RapidIO 4.2 as the bridge for starters, already big jump from PCIe 3.0).

 

[Shangounchained]

At that price, get ready to say hi to a $600 PS5...and that's maybe with Sony taking a slight loss. HBM2 per GB is just going to be notably more expensive than GDDR6 and that's even with Sony getting it from AMD directly baked onto the board.

They can maybe get 8GB of HBM2, maybe 12...but anything more is strongly pushing it. I personally wouldn't mind 8GB HBM2/32GB 3D Xpoint/1 TB QLC NAND interfaced to GPU as an extended cache (SSG-style) myself. Would love to see how that does against 24GB GDDR6 and SSD over NVMe PCIe 4.0 for storage (MS's possible solution; granted PS5 will have that too, but maybe x2 PCIe 4.0 on NVMe for Sony and x4 PCIe 4.0 on NVMe for MS)



If that's the case then it's looking a lot more likely it could be part of Sony's setup. I'm gonna call it now: 8GB HBM2, 32GB 3D Xpoint NAND, 1TB QLC NAND as extended cache and NVMe on x2 PCIe 4.0 for optional storage drive.

It just seems quite plausible at this point honestly. Plus they could do some further customizations on the SSG-like side of things (they'd be using PCIe 4.0 or hell maybe even RapidIO 4.2 as the bridge for starters, already big jump from PCIe 3.0).

Nobody is going for 8gb that's embarrassingly low vram that's the same assets per frame as a PS4 even a Xbox one X has 12gb, it's pointless even with ssg, the base has been set by Google 16gb is the base 24gb is the expected! I'd go with 24gb hbm2 + 104-128 GB ssg and a external 1 or 2 tb ssd as main storage,

So the full game on the 100gb Blu-ray disk can be loaded to the SSG while playing!

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I have checked the ssg materials and it's much simpler then people think.
It's just two ssd's with their own flash controllers attached to pcie3 bridge connected to gpu.
It really costs nothing. No new tech there apart from software.

Nobody is going for 8gb that's embarrassingly low vram that's the same assets per frame as a PS4 even a Xbox one X has 12gb, it's pointless even with ssg, the base has been set by Google 16gb is the base 24gb is the expected! I'd go with 24gb hbm2 + 104-128 GB ssg and a external 1 or 2 tb ssd as main storage,

So the full game on the 100gb Blu-ray disk can be loaded to the SSG while playing!

I guess they could do 24GB HBM2 if the NAND used for the SSG-style memory pool is QLC and not PCM 3D Xpoint. As long as 128GB of QLC NAND is enough for most game sizes with next-gen in mind.

Even so you are still looking at a more expensive PS5 relative to Scarlett, and we don't know if MS is doing an SSG-style setup themselves or not. If so, they could opt for 1TB of NAND with the savings of using GDDR6 over HBM2, and it's not really understood at this time if HBM2 would give Sony THAT much an advantage considering they and MS are likely using the same Zen processors and even GPUs with similar (but different approach) customizations.

 

[Negotiator]

Prices of SSDs and RAM will crash in 2019, Gartner predicts

Minor relief is in sight next year, when prices of memory and NAND flash will start to gradually decline. But prices will plummet big time in 2019, said Jon Erensen, research director for semiconductors at Gartner.

www.pcworld.com

Does anyone know prices per GB currently?

For reference, 8GB of GDDR5 (16 chips * 512MB) cost $88 back in 2013.

Very few (professional) GPUs had it back then.

Regarding (cheap) HBM:

HBM3: Cheaper, up to 64GB on-package, and terabytes-per-second bandwidth

Plus, Samsung unveils GDDR6 and "low cost" HBM technologies.

arstechnica.com

I wouldn't bet it on it. Too risky (kinda reminiscent of Cell/Blu-Ray back in 2005):

Blu-ray laser LED to blame for PS3 shortage - Geek.com

the shortage of playstation 3 consoles in the u.s. right now is being officially blamed on low-yield production of blue laser gan-based leds. the leds are used in the blue-ray disc reader component …

www.geek.com

It would be catastrophic if Sony experienced shortages and delays due to HBM not being mass produced. GDDR is a safe bet.

 

[LordOfChaos]

It's 6000$ because it's not mass market it was more like a Dev kit for professionals but if Sony or Microsoft want it on their consoles it'll be a good deal for amd it's simply a ssd on a GPU what's so expensive about that? If apple made 200 iPhones every year one iPhone would cost a million pounds

The cost of professional level cards is largely in the driver validation and support tier. There may be nothing magically expensive about the silicon or NAND but the fact would remain that this would be the cheapest we could get something like this, had it supported Other OS, being that they don't sell it without that stuff otherwise. If you're just interested in the performance rather than the reliability.

 

[Shangounchained]

I guess they could do 24GB HBM2 if the NAND used for the SSG-style memory pool is QLC and not PCM 3D Xpoint. As long as 128GB of QLC NAND is enough for most game sizes with next-gen in mind.

Even so you are still looking at a more expensive PS5 relative to Scarlett, and we don't know if MS is doing an SSG-style setup themselves or not. If so, they could opt for 1TB of NAND with the savings of using GDDR6 over HBM2, and it's not really understood at this time if HBM2 would give Sony THAT much an advantage considering they and MS are likely using the same Zen processors and even GPUs with similar (but different approach) customizations.

Whatever they use, bu just knowing they'll have a zen CPU a ssd and a powerful GPU means this consoles will be in the range of 550-700$ you should easily expect a 600$ console, I don't think the gaming industry will sit there and collect penny's for profits while everybody else for instance phones are collecting millions

Especially at the short window this consoles are coming out with such hardware to eclipse the current it's 6 years while last gen took 9 years to replace so hardware prices went down enough to do a next leap! This time around I personally feel like they are forcing next gen consoles out for no reason, I look at upcoming games and they still look beautiful, ghost of tsushima, death stranding, and some others, forcing the ps5 out by 2020 will surely be expensive and I'm sure there isn't enough blockbuster games ready to come out at launch,. Considering a next gen game that'll push the hardware would probably take 5 years to make!

 

[Rolling_Start]

I don't think using more CPU than a 1.6 gHz Jaguar setup, or building a streaming system beyond a 5400 rpm laptop drive, are going to a big ask for developers at this point.

Current systems are straining at CPU and laptop HDD limits now. There are worthwhile gains to be had day 1.

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

At this point in time where by a PS4 can easily do 30fps 1080 on complex graphical games like uncharted 4, death stranding nd a Xbox one X can pull full 4k on a game like red dead 2, I think the graphics gap is too thin, I don't see how the stadia no matter how scalable can show a difference compared to other next gen consoles,

I mean really what? Besides outputting more framerates than the competition there's nothing else really, even Xbox one X didn't stop people from buying a playstation! I think as we've seen this gen the graphics battle has gotten smaller and smaller the big difference was and is exclusives, I'll buy a ps for god of war, a Xbox for halo, a Nintendo for mario kart and Google for browsing!

There is always stuff to improve on besides resolution & framerate, ray tracing can get even more complex as well as physics just to name a couple, increased CPU/GPU/RAM/Storage for massively complex environments with a ton of players online at the same time since everything would be hosted locally on their servers and just streamed to TV's. Trust me, I hope it fails too, but I am not going to brush them off, if it were any other company I wouldn't be so concerned, just look at how Google has taking over all the market share with Android, they started out way behind Apple and now Google has rougly 74.4% of the market share. Last year the gaming industry generated almost $135 billion, and trust me, Google wants a nice piece of that pie.

At that price, get ready to say hi to a $600 PS5...and that's maybe with Sony taking a slight loss. HBM2 per GB is just going to be notably more expensive than GDDR6 and that's even with Sony getting it from AMD directly baked onto the board.

They can maybe get 8GB of HBM2, maybe 12...but anything more is strongly pushing it. I personally wouldn't mind 8GB HBM2/32GB 3D Xpoint/1 TB QLC NAND interfaced to GPU as an extended cache (SSG-style) myself. Would love to see how that does against 24GB GDDR6 and SSD over NVMe PCIe 4.0 for storage (MS's possible solution; granted PS5 will have that too, but maybe x2 PCIe 4.0 on NVMe for Sony and x4 PCIe 4.0 on NVMe for MS)



If that's the case then it's looking a lot more likely it could be part of Sony's setup. I'm gonna call it now: 8GB HBM2, 32GB 3D Xpoint NAND, 1TB QLC NAND as extended cache and NVMe on x2 PCIe 4.0 for optional storage drive.

It just seems quite plausible at this point honestly. Plus they could do some further customizations on the SSG-like side of things (they'd be using PCIe 4.0 or hell maybe even RapidIO 4.2 as the bridge for starters, already big jump from PCIe 3.0).

I would be totally ok with a $600 PS5 if the specs were there to back it up, I feel though that Sony will eat some of the cost and the system will release for $500 when it comes out next year. I know with the PS4 they held back a little more than they should have with having that Jaguar CPU, but I get that they didn't want to start out on the wrong foot again like they did with the PS3, but I think this next gen they are going to swing for the fences and release an extremely powerful system based on what Mark Cerny said, “I believe that we will be able to release it at an SRP [suggested retail price] that will be appealing to gamers in light of its advanced feature set.” So $500-600 PS5 with insane specs? Bring it on!

 

[Shangounchained]

There is always stuff to improve on besides resolution & framerate, ray tracing can get even more complex as well as physics just to name a couple, increased CPU/GPU/RAM/Storage for massively complex environments with a ton of players online at the same time since everything would be hosted locally on their servers and just streamed to TV's. Trust me, I hope it fails too, but I am not going to brush them off, if it were any other company I wouldn't be so concerned, just look at how Google has taking over all the market share with Android, they started out way behind Apple and now Google has rougly 74.4% of the market share. Last year the gaming industry generated almost $135 billion, and trust me, Google wants a nice piece of that pie.



I would be totally ok with a $600 PS5 if the specs were there to back it up, I feel though that Sony will eat some of the cost and the system will release for $500 when it comes out next year. I know with the PS4 they held back a little more than they should have with having that Jaguar CPU, but I get that they didn't want to start out on the wrong foot again like they did with the PS3, but I think this next gen they are going to swing for the fences and release an extremely powerful system based on what Mark Cerny said, “I believe that we will be able to release it at an SRP [suggested retail price] that will be appealing to gamers in light of its advanced feature set.” So $500-600 PS5 with insane specs? Bring it on!

Of course there's alot to improve but like any generation consoles always perform the same the visuals for multiplats always look similar, don't think that multiplat developers would add anything to stadia as compared to a ps5 or Scarlett it's bonkers to think every next gen console comes out with 24gb and say a certain console failed to render a shadow, it's ridiculous I don't think we'll see any di difference as far as rendering pixels is conserned between next gen consoles theyll both have massive polygons and pixels the major difference would be exclusives, service and gameplay for instance sonys new haptic feedback. I don't see anybody bullying anybody about blast processing the coming gen honestly!

 

[magnumpy]

Of course there's alot to improve but like any generation consoles always perform the same the visuals for multiplats always look similar, don't think that multiplat developers would add anything to stadia as compared to a ps5 or Scarlett it's bonkers to think every next gen console comes out with 24gb and say a certain console failed to render a shadow, it's ridiculous I don't think we'll see any di difference as far as rendering pixels is conserned between next gen consoles theyll both have massive polygons and pixels the major difference would be exclusives, service and gameplay for instance sonys new haptic feedback. I don't see anybody bullying anybody about blast processing the coming gen honestly!

I'm really curious about this. there hasn't been much said about it, other than it will go beyond what is available with PS4 rumble. could they be talking about many different rumble motors, or more nuanced rumble going from very slight vibration to really intense, or what?

 

[Shangounchained]

I'm really curious about this. there hasn't been much said about it, other than it will go beyond what is available with PS4 rumble. could they be talking about many different rumble motors, or more nuanced rumble going from very slight vibration to really intense, or what?

I think a special motor design. Gran turismo spoke about it, they said you'll be able to differentiate tarmac and dirt while driving on the road, if I was involved in the design I'd go beyond that, I'd do heat smell stinging sensation s and so forth

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

Of course there's alot to improve but like any generation consoles always perform the same the visuals for multiplats always look similar, don't think that multiplat developers would add anything to stadia as compared to a ps5 or Scarlett it's bonkers to think every next gen console comes out with 24gb and say a certain console failed to render a shadow, it's ridiculous I don't think we'll see any di difference as far as rendering pixels is conserned between next gen consoles theyll both have massive polygons and pixels the major difference would be exclusives, service and gameplay for instance sonys new haptic feedback. I don't see anybody bullying anybody about blast processing the coming gen honestly!

I get what you are saying, I just don't Stadia to get any traction because if they do and Sony and Microsoft follow suit with the same type of business model I will be pissed! Blast processing, I haven't hear that in years! They should say "Now With Blast Processing!" when they to the big PS5 reveal!

I'm really curious about this. there hasn't been much said about it, other than it will go beyond what is available with PS4 rumble. could they be talking about many different rumble motors, or more nuanced rumble going from very slight vibration to really intense, or what?

I don't think they will be using normal rumble motors like they do on the PS4 and before (basically a motor with a weight attached to it), from what I can tell it is going to be haptic motors similar to the Nintendo Switch's controllers.

PS4 Rumble:

Nintendo Switch HD Haptics: