Support NeoGAF

[kunonabi]

Diamond Cuttter. anyone that says otherwise is a liar and a thief.

They all lose to the Kanyon Cutter anyway.

 

[Johndoey]

Im surprised there hasn't been another thread after the shit DB Super pulled with that universe destroying stuff.

Superman once lifted half of infinity. Goku ain't shit.

 

[Walpurgis]

I should have clarified, by women care products, I meant the kind that they use on where their babies come from, not the women care products that make their hair look nice. And when I mean leave it around, I mean stuff a bloody used tampon within any nook and cranny such as the TP dispenser.

 

[Escape Goat]

Maybe Slayven can explain it to me, but I never understood power levels nonsense, either.

I mean, does any of that crap really matter when the author is just gonna pull the strings on the characters to do whatever in order to progress the story? Especially in comics?

Youre right that it doesnt matter because no hero is going to get beat down in their own book. Not unless the beatdown is to explore the characters reaction to the defeat. Theyll take a few hits because showing they are vulnerable creates tension and raises the stakes. In the end things will workout to resolve the conflict because thats how our stories are structured on the most basic level.

 

[Toa TAK]

Youre right that it doesnt matter because no hero is going to get beat down in their own book. Theyll take a few hits because showing they are vulnerable creates tension and raises the stakes. In the end things will workout to resolve the conflict because thats how our stories are structured on the most basic level.

But what about crossovers? Like if Batman vs Spider-Man went at it in a Spider-Man book, and all bets were off, shouldn't that count for something?

 

[Sibersk Esto]

But what about crossovers?

Things got heated when Justice League vs Avengers happened

 

[The Silver]

Superman once lifted half of infinity. Goku ain't shit.

"Half of infinity", man that just cracked me up

 

[Keihart]

I think it's also called dick measuring contest?

 

[Escape Goat]

But what about crossovers?

Whos book is the crossover taking place in? Even if its a mini series thats stand alone theyll all get a few hits in before both sides taking losses. Like the Captain America movie tgats coming out soon youre going to have both teams compete despite Caps power deficit.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

Youre right that it doesnt matter because no hero is going to get beat down in their own book. Not unless the beatdown is to explore the characters reaction to the defeat. Theyll take a few hits because showing they are vulnerable creates tension and raises the stakes. In the end things will workout to resolve the conflict because thats how our stories are structured on the most basic level.

Characters die in their own books plenty of times and sometimes the villain does win and plenty of times there are examples of other characters who are much stronger than the protagonist and the protagonist admits themselves they couldn't beat him or her.

 

[Johndoey]

"Half of infinity", man that just cracked me up

Comics are amazing.

 

[Slayven]

Maybe Slayven can explain it to me, but I never understood power levels nonsense, either.

I mean, does any of that crap really matter when the author is just gonna pull the strings on the characters to do whatever in order to progress the story? Especially in comics?

Listen the only power levels in comics are these

Cosmic-characters that deal with freaky space shit and has the juice to do it
Top Tier- Characters that could be cosmic but stick to earth for whatever reason
Mid tier- Strong characters but not world breaking, mostly found on teams.
Street Level- Folks that handle more personal shit like muggers and the mob



Cosmic= Silver Surfer, Green Lantern, Quasar, etc
Top Tier= Superman, Flash, Thor, Blue Marvel, etc
Mid tier= The Thing, The Human Torch, Iron Man etc
Street= Daredevil, Moon Knight, NightWiing , etc.


But that is the only power levels I keep in mind.

There is some overlap, but not that much

Cap is mid tier because he deals with Mid Tier to Top issues issues, but Batman floats between Top Tier and Street issues

Not perfect but works for me.

 

[Walpurgis]

Superman once lifted half of infinity. Goku ain't shit.

Goku once destroyed a planet with mass infinity to the power of infinity. Superman ain't even an atom compared to Goku.

 

[Abounder]

Give Popeye the sailor man a can of spinach and he'll crush both Superman and Goku, ah guh guh guh guh

But yea it's a nerdy thing that ranges across all sorts of stuff. Planes, trains, cars, video games, sports, comics, etc. all have their power level discussions. Even crimes against humanity are ranked in morbid top 10 lists

 

[The Adder]

There was a very good post on Reddit about Curative Fandom vs Transformative Fandom. It pointed out how curative fandom skewed male while transformative fandom skewed female.

Power level discussions are very VERY much an aspect of curative fandom.

 

[Pau]

But what about crossovers?

Heroes fighting each other is usually pretty boring or contrived. :/

I'll give exceptions to things like the Captain Marvel/Superman fight in JLU. (But it helps that it's animated and a lot of comic artists can't draw interesting fights anyways. )

 

[Haly]

There was a very good post on Reddit about Curative Fandom vs Transformative Fandom. It pointed out how curative fandom skewed male while transformative fandom skewed female.

Power level discussions are very VERY much an aspect of curative fandom.

I remember this. It was a good essay and very reflective of my experiences/expectations.

 

[The Adder]

Here it is:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gallifrey/comments/2u73cg/tumblrbashing_why_or_why_not/

 

[99hertz]

My cousin asks me all the time who would win in a fight between Batman and Flash and shit like that. She was (and is) practically my little sister when growing up so she got it from me.

 

[Johndoey]

But what about crossovers? Like if Batman vs Spider-Man went at it in a Spider-Man book, and all bets were off, shouldn't that count for something?

Crossovers count for nothing since typically writers place characters on more equal levels for obvious reasons. But Spider-Man once shattered both his hands punching Superman. All bets are most decidedly still on in most crossovers.

Goku once destroyed a planet with mass infinity to the power of infinity. Superman ain't even an atom compared to Goku.

Damn I can't argue with those kinds of feats.

 

[FairyD]

Thankfully this thread was made. I was debating whether or not I should create one asking if Elsa from Frozen is more powerful than Iceman.

I'm starting to think that Elsa is more powerful than Iceman. Maybe not the current version, but definitely past versions of him.

 

[Escape Goat]

Characters die in their own books plenty of times and sometimes the villain does win and plenty of times there are examples of other characters who are much stronger than the protagonist and the protagonist admits themselves they couldn't beat him or her.

Characters die because the writer needed them to so they could explore the conseqiences of that characters death. The actual death and how it happened doesnt matter. The story demanded it and so it happened. Squirrel Girl defies all logic and she should have died a hundred times over but she didnt because the story needed her not to die. So all this talk about who would win can only be taken so far. Superman shoud be able to take out Cyclops but what story is being told? Whats Supermans victory or defeat mean for the characters?

 

[TheSpoiler]

For real though, Broly vs The Sailor Scouts vs Nine Tails.

Does waifu shipping count?

If you are shipping your waifu, you are a terrible person.

That's whoring them out.

You disgusting human.

 

[Slayven]

Thankfully this thread was made. I was debating whether or not I should create one asking if Elsa from Frozen is more powerful than Iceman.

I'm starting to think that Elsa is more powerful than Iceman. Maybe not the current version, but definitely past versions of him.

Breh Elsa can't even see Iceman's league.

 

[The Adder]

If you are shipping your waifu, you are a terrible person.

That's whoring them out.

You disgusting human.

Maybe he's into cuckolding. Who are you to judge?

 

[FStubbs]

Give Popeye the sailor man a can of spinach and he'll crush both Superman and Goku, ah guh guh guh guh

But yea it's a nerdy thing that ranges across all sorts of stuff. Planes, trains, cars, video games, sports, comics, etc. all have their power level discussions. Even crimes against humanity are ranked in morbid top 10 lists

Popeye + spinach is a reality warper. Only end of GT Goku or Superman Infinity (or whatever he was when he lived in the sun for 10,000 years) stand a chance.

 

[FStubbs]

I've got a better one.

Reality warpers and beings like Baphomet aside, who can give Rogue some lovin' and survive?

 

[The Adder]

I've got a better one.

Reality warpers and beings like Baphomet aside, who can give Rogue some lovin' and survive?

Now-a-days? Anyone. She has her powers under control.

 

[super-famicom]

My sister in law could probably school anyone on this forum about JoJo characters.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

Characters die because the writer needed them to so they could explore the consequences of that character's death. The actual death and how it happened doesn't matter. The story demanded it and so it happened. Squirrel Girl defies all logic and she should have died a hundred times over but she didnt because the story needed her not to die. So all this talk about who would win can only be taken so far. Superman should be able to take out Cyclops but what story is being told? Whats Superman's victory or defeat mean for the characters?

It does actually matter how it happened. That could stem off from a plot point that doesn't have anything to do with that character, but the story as a whole. When I right my own stories yeah it could serve those same purposes, but it does also demonstrate what the character can or cannot do.

In Watchmen

Spoiler

Rorscach knew he couldn't do anything to stop Dr. Manhattan from keeping him from not telling the world about Ozymandia's plan, so that's why he just told him to go ahead and kill him now to get it over with already.

Also in Parable of the Sower

Spoiler

it's pretty clear that Laura is weaker than every healthy human that doesn't have her condition and Butler makes it pretty clear that she can't do much without the support of others.

 

[PsychBat!]

Thankfully this thread was made. I was debating whether or not I should create one asking if Elsa from Frozen is more powerful than Iceman.

I'm starting to think that Elsa is more powerful than Iceman. Maybe not the current version, but definitely past versions of him.

Elsa can't touch Iceman.

 

[FStubbs]

Elsa can't touch Iceman.

Elsa can't even go one on one against her aunt. </OnceUponATime>

 

[SixMachine]

My sister in law could probably school anyone on this forum about JoJo characters.

It's easy to argue for Jojo's because Araki is a real life pillar man and you can't argue with his eternal youth.

edit: this one is better because of the Mona Lisa

Also it's awesome as fuck the way Jojo characters use their powers in such a creative way. Basically spoiler for part 6

Spoiler

Emporio found a way to kill someone with the goddamn speed of the Flash.

 

[Johndoey]

Breh Elsa can't even see Iceman's league.

She accidentally creates entirely independent sentient life with its own formed personality, she is literally a physical god.

 

[Walpurgis]

If you are shipping your waifu, you are a terrible person.

That's whoring them out.

You disgusting human.

I didn't know people actually did that. Then again, there's a gaffer who shits in his sink.

 

[Johndoey]

It's easy to argue for Jojo's because Araki is a real life pillar man and you can't argue with his eternal youth.

edit: this one is better because of the Mona Lisa

Also it's awesome as fuck the way Jojo characters use their powers in such a creative way. Basically spoiler for part 6

Spoiler

Emporio found a way to kill someone with the goddamn speed of the Flash.

Which Flash?

 

[PsychBat!]

She accidentally creates entirely independent sentient life with its own formed personality, she is literally a physical god.

brah iceman does that and more

 

[Haly]

Who has lived longer, Keanu Reeves or Hirohiko Araki?

 

[Slayven]

She accidentally creates entirely independent sentient life with its own formed personality, she is literally a physical god.

Elsa is flesh and blood, Iceman doesn't have that limitation.

 

[Johndoey]

brah iceman does that and more

Just sayin' it ain't a steamroll is all.

Elsa is flesh and blood, Iceman doesn't have that limitation.

True, True.

 

[SixMachine]

Which Flash?

Spoiler

Someone who controls gravity to such a degree they move far beyond light speed. Since gravity effects time dilation, the villain killed everyone, then reset the universe by speeding it up to the end of the universe and into the next big bang. Everyone else is unaffected by the speed, so only he and "nature" could move at the sped up motion.

 

[hipbabboom]

Stoopid face OP dumb dumb poopie butt... You know nothing with your judgemental bullshit. You wanna fight OP?!!

 

[Slayven]

Just sayin' it ain't a steamroll is all.

What can she do to him, dude literally froze hell.


He went to an afterlife of fire and brimstone, and froze it.

 

[Toa TAK]

Listen the only power levels in comics are these

Cosmic-characters that deal with freaky space shit and has the juice to do it
Top Tier- Characters that could be cosmic but stick to earth for whatever reason
Mid tier- Strong characters but not world breaking, mostly found on teams.
Street Level- Folks that handle more personal shit like muggers and the mob



Cosmic= Silver Surfer, Green Lantern, Quasar, etc
Top Tier= Superman, Flash, Thor, Blue Marvel, etc
Mid tier= The Thing, The Human Torch, Iron Man etc
Street= Daredevil, Moon Knight, NightWiing , etc.


But that is the only power levels I keep in mind.

There is some overlap, but not that much

Cap is mid tier because he deals with Mid Tier to Top issues issues, but Batman floats between Top Tier and Street issues

Not perfect but works for me.

Heroes fighting each other is usually pretty boring or contrived. :/

I'll give exceptions to things like the Captain Marvel/Superman fight in JLU. (But it helps that it's animated and a lot of comic artists can't draw interesting fights anyways. )

Right? I don't want waste time seeing them fight when I know they're going to hook up to save the day anyways.

Though it'll be interesting to see what they do with Civil War come that time...

Crossovers count for nothing since typically writers place characters on more equal levels for obvious reasons. But Spider-Man once shattered both his hands punching Superman. All bets are most decidedly still on in most crossovers.

I remember seeing that panel. That comic does have a great cover that captures the feeling of these two icons duking it out:

 

[Johndoey]

Spoiler

Someone who controls gravity to such a degree they move far beyond light speed. Since gravity effects time dilation, the villain killed everyone, then reset the universe by speeding it up to the end of the universe and into the next big bang. Everyone else is unaffected by the speed, so only he and "nature" could move at the sped up motion.

Huh, I need to check out JoJo. But the reason I asked is that that depending on the Flash their greatest asset and protection is the hax bullshit known as Speedforce, the Speedforce can make characters nigh unbeatable.

 

[Johndoey]

What can she do to him, dude literally froze hell.


He went to an afterlife of fire and brimstone, and froze it.

Honestly I forgot about that.

Dammit: Back to Back posts.

 

[SixMachine]

Huh, I need to check out JoJo. But the reason I asked is that that depending on the Flash their greatest asset and protection is the hax bullshit known as Speedforce, the Speedforce can make characters nigh unbeatable.

The person's powers works much differently than the Flash. The said person moves in comparable speeds and does different stuff, though what is truly is his downfall is

Spoiler

Taking a moment to taunt a kid that he could have killed easily, allowing him to set up the kill. It's like how Zoom got killed in Flashpoint by Daddy Wayne, he shouldn't be taunting the Flash, except in this case it's 1v1.

 

[Slayven]

Honestly I forgot about that.

I remember because how sad Xavier looked when everyone left his ass behind.

 

[Johndoey]

The person's powers works much differently than the Flash. The said person moves in comparable speeds and does different stuff, though what is truly is his downfall is

Spoiler

Taking a moment to taunt a kid that he could have killed easily, allowing him to set up the kill. It's like how Zoom got killed in Flashpoint by Daddy Wayne, he shouldn't be taunting the Flash, except in this case it's 1v1.

Damn, you actually got me hyped for JoJos.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Jojo character fights are basically twilight zone episodes